On Sep 27, 12:52*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Joe wrote:

On Sep 27, 9:02=A0am, AZ Nomad wrote:

snip

After 4 replacements of the same socket, all
unable to handle 40 ft-lbs, I bought a whole set from kmart for the same
price and they had no problem with the torque. This was pre-me(g)rer, around
1985. =A0I don't know if craft(s)man was better before that, I'm not sure where
you'd find craft(s)man from the 60's.

It may be you were putting 40 Lb-ft on a 12 point socket applied to a
hex head bolt/nut.. Or maybe a Torx head fastener. Not accepted
practice, and usually commented on in the repair manual from the
manufacturer. When in doubt, use a impact socket.

Pffffft. There's no need to use impact sockets for only 40 foot-pounds,
standard sockets work just fine. There's nothing wrong with using 12-point
sockets at that low a torque, either. What gives you the idea that doing so is
"not accepted practice"?

I think I have broken three sockets in my life. One I had a three foot
piece of pipe on a 3/8 pull handle, one was made in Taiwan and the
other I had the socket cocked on the bolt. I should have broken it
loose with a box end wrench.

Jimmie

In article ,
Phisherman wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:06:02 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

willshak wrote:


Doesn't Craftsman have a lifetime guaranty on hand tools?.

YEP.


My Craftsman wooden clamp broke. Actually the wooden handle came off
the rod. I took it into Sears and they said "Those are not covered
because that tool has moving parts." That was about 20 years ago
and I have not purchased Craftsman tools since.

Similar story with a friend of mine, about ten years ago. Don't remember
the tool but remember the "moving parts" b.s. He held it up as high as
he could over his head, and shouted at the top of his voice, within
earshot of 100 shoppers, "Wait a minute, this is a broken *craftsman*
hand tool. You say you're not going to replace my broken *craftsman*
tool, the one with the LIFETIME WARRANTY????" They replaced it.

On 9/27/2009 7:15 PM Phisherman spake thus:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:06:02 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

willshak wrote:

Doesn't Craftsman have a lifetime guaranty on hand tools?.

YEP.

My Craftsman wooden clamp broke. Actually the wooden handle came off
the rod. I took it into Sears and they said "Those are not covered
because that tool has moving parts." That was about 20 years ago
and I have not purchased Craftsman tools since.

I know that's BS (what the clerk told you, not what you wrote) because
I've brought in broken Craftsman crescent wrenches, which definitely
have moving parts, and gotten them replaced.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Phisherman wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:06:02 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

willshak wrote:

Doesn't Craftsman have a lifetime guaranty on hand tools?.

YEP.

My Craftsman wooden clamp broke. Actually the wooden handle came off
the rod. I took it into Sears and they said "Those are not covered
because that tool has moving parts." That was about 20 years ago
and I have not purchased Craftsman tools since.

Similar story with a friend of mine, about ten years ago. Don't remember
the tool but remember the "moving parts" b.s. He held it up as high as
he could over his head, and shouted at the top of his voice, within
earshot of 100 shoppers, "Wait a minute, this is a broken *craftsman*
hand tool. You say you're not going to replace my broken *craftsman*
tool, the one with the LIFETIME WARRANTY????" They replaced it.

And you probably don't need to do that. Just ask for the store manager
and suggest you will do that yelling.

Steve Barker wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

I'll pay some extra for quality, but I won't pay 2x or 3x or more.
Not being a wrench-turner in my day job, plain old Craftsman is
'good enough' for me. (actually, all my tool boxes at the moment are
plastic, living in a damp world like I do...) Not that I have room
or need for a roll-around anyway.

My experience with craftman is that they are worse of a ripoff than
any brand in
existance. I've had more craftsman tools break than the cheapest
crap I've
bought at k-mart. For the price of a single craftsman socket, I can
buy a whole
set at k-mart and they won't crack or fly part under 50 ft-lbs like the
craftsman sockets will.

OLD Craftsman stuff was excellent. I have some of my grandfather's
tools and they don't feel like S-K, Proto, Snap-On, etc. but they are
still perfectly serviceable. NEW Craftsman, the main reason to buy it
instead of the cheapest stuff you can find is the lifetime warranty.

nate


I did 30+ years as a line mechanic on craftsman tools. They are fine. I
broke very few. I used snapon tools for the specialty tools, and had
snap on boxes. Craftsman did not and does not make a box that will hold
up to everyday 30 year use.

Yes, forget the tools for a moment and compare the tool boxes. If I was
to rate a snap on box at 100% comparing a craftsman box to it the
Craftsman would be rated about 30%. Yes there really is that much of a
difference in the tool boxes.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

I'll pay some extra for quality, but I won't pay 2x or 3x or more.
Not being a wrench-turner in my day job, plain old Craftsman is
'good enough' for me. (actually, all my tool boxes at the moment
are plastic, living in a damp world like I do...) Not that I have
room or need for a roll-around anyway.

My experience with craftman is that they are worse of a ripoff than
any brand in
existance. I've had more craftsman tools break than the cheapest
crap I've
bought at k-mart. For the price of a single craftsman socket, I can
buy a whole
set at k-mart and they won't crack or fly part under 50 ft-lbs like the
craftsman sockets will.

OLD Craftsman stuff was excellent. I have some of my grandfather's
tools and they don't feel like S-K, Proto, Snap-On, etc. but they are
still perfectly serviceable. NEW Craftsman, the main reason to buy
it instead of the cheapest stuff you can find is the lifetime warranty.

nate


I did 30+ years as a line mechanic on craftsman tools. They are fine.
I broke very few. I used snapon tools for the specialty tools, and
had snap on boxes. Craftsman did not and does not make a box that
will hold up to everyday 30 year use.

Even the expensive roller bearing ones? I don't have one, mind you (my
roll cabinets were all bought at garage sales, save for the one in the
basement which is bottom of the line Crapsman bought on sale for about
50% off list) but I was curious. The price certainly approaches Snap-On...

I don't believe I've ever seen that line of Craftsman boxes.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

OLD Craftsman stuff was excellent. I have some of my grandfather's
tools and they don't feel like S-K, Proto, Snap-On, etc. but they are
still perfectly serviceable. NEW Craftsman, the main reason to buy it
instead of the cheapest stuff you can find is the lifetime warranty.

Like my friend says, when you're lying under the car fixing something,
you don't give a rat's ass about a tool warranty, you just want a tool
that isn't broken. I like S-K, and I really like Bonney. Snap-On is
pretty spendy but there are ways to avoid paying retail.

I like S-K also. Not a single problem with the ratchet set I bought in
1979 and it's been well used the last 30 years. The best part is that I
never had the inconvenience of getting a free replacement, nothing has
broken!

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:28:03 -0400, Tony
wrote:

Steve Barker wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

I'll pay some extra for quality, but I won't pay 2x or 3x or more.
Not being a wrench-turner in my day job, plain old Craftsman is
'good enough' for me. (actually, all my tool boxes at the moment are
plastic, living in a damp world like I do...) Not that I have room
or need for a roll-around anyway.

My experience with craftman is that they are worse of a ripoff than
any brand in
existance. I've had more craftsman tools break than the cheapest
crap I've
bought at k-mart. For the price of a single craftsman socket, I can
buy a whole
set at k-mart and they won't crack or fly part under 50 ft-lbs like the
craftsman sockets will.

OLD Craftsman stuff was excellent. I have some of my grandfather's
tools and they don't feel like S-K, Proto, Snap-On, etc. but they are
still perfectly serviceable. NEW Craftsman, the main reason to buy it
instead of the cheapest stuff you can find is the lifetime warranty.

nate


I did 30+ years as a line mechanic on craftsman tools. They are fine. I
broke very few. I used snapon tools for the specialty tools, and had
snap on boxes. Craftsman did not and does not make a box that will hold
up to everyday 30 year use.

Yes, forget the tools for a moment and compare the tool boxes. If I was
to rate a snap on box at 100% comparing a craftsman box to it the
Craftsman would be rated about 30%. Yes there really is that much of a
difference in the tool boxes.


Some of the "snappy" boxes are crap too. They don't make their own
boxes. There are a few companies that make alt all the major brand
boxes - the rest are made off-shore,

Mac, Hebrand, Snap-on, and the "proffesional" Craftsman and
Mastercraft boxes of years ago were all made by the same 3 companies -
and in many cases parts were interchangeable.

Now often the "off brand" American manufacturers make better boxes
than Snap-On.
Beach is low end.
Waterloo makes them across the spectrum, from what I've seen.
Lots of others out there.

Mine is an old Herbrand - cost me half what a friend paid for his
snap-on. I've still got mine. His has been replaced at least twice.
I had mine sand-blasted and repainted at about 15 years.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:39:38 -0400, Tony
wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

OLD Craftsman stuff was excellent. I have some of my grandfather's
tools and they don't feel like S-K, Proto, Snap-On, etc. but they are
still perfectly serviceable. NEW Craftsman, the main reason to buy it
instead of the cheapest stuff you can find is the lifetime warranty.

Like my friend says, when you're lying under the car fixing something,
you don't give a rat's ass about a tool warranty, you just want a tool
that isn't broken. I like S-K, and I really like Bonney. Snap-On is
pretty spendy but there are ways to avoid paying retail.

I like S-K also. Not a single problem with the ratchet set I bought in
1979 and it's been well used the last 30 years. The best part is that I
never had the inconvenience of getting a free replacement, nothing has
broken!
I've had Herbrand, Craftsman, SK, Proto, Mac and various other brands
since the late 60s. I still have the vast majority of my original
Craftsman set - the ones I don't have got legs. I've broken a couple
sockets and had ratchets rebuilt and replaced and broken I think 3
wrenches - and they all got pretty heavy use for the first 25 years.

Some of my favourite tools were SK - including the swing handle plug
ratchet and the 1/4 drive "doorknob" ratchet.

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:28:03 -0400, Tony
wrote:

Steve Barker wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

I'll pay some extra for quality, but I won't pay 2x or 3x or more.
Not being a wrench-turner in my day job, plain old Craftsman is
'good enough' for me. (actually, all my tool boxes at the moment are
plastic, living in a damp world like I do...) Not that I have room
or need for a roll-around anyway.
My experience with craftman is that they are worse of a ripoff than
any brand in
existance. I've had more craftsman tools break than the cheapest
crap I've
bought at k-mart. For the price of a single craftsman socket, I can
buy a whole
set at k-mart and they won't crack or fly part under 50 ft-lbs like the
craftsman sockets will.
OLD Craftsman stuff was excellent. I have some of my grandfather's
tools and they don't feel like S-K, Proto, Snap-On, etc. but they are
still perfectly serviceable. NEW Craftsman, the main reason to buy it
instead of the cheapest stuff you can find is the lifetime warranty.

nate

I did 30+ years as a line mechanic on craftsman tools. They are fine. I
broke very few. I used snapon tools for the specialty tools, and had
snap on boxes. Craftsman did not and does not make a box that will hold
up to everyday 30 year use.
Yes, forget the tools for a moment and compare the tool boxes. If I was
to rate a snap on box at 100% comparing a craftsman box to it the
Craftsman would be rated about 30%. Yes there really is that much of a
difference in the tool boxes.


Some of the "snappy" boxes are crap too. They don't make their own
boxes. There are a few companies that make alt all the major brand
boxes - the rest are made off-shore,

Mac, Hebrand, Snap-on, and the "proffesional" Craftsman and
Mastercraft boxes of years ago were all made by the same 3 companies -
and in many cases parts were interchangeable.

Now often the "off brand" American manufacturers make better boxes
than Snap-On.
Beach is low end.
Waterloo makes them across the spectrum, from what I've seen.
Lots of others out there.

Mine is an old Herbrand - cost me half what a friend paid for his
snap-on. I've still got mine. His has been replaced at least twice.
I had mine sand-blasted and repainted at about 15 years.

The last job I had where I needed a toolbox I got a Waterloo one. It
worked just fine. That said, they're not cheap either. You get what
you pays for, I guess.

nate

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