I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

On Sep 15, 12:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

Sounds like a huge screw-up to me. Maybe the lowest bidder got the
job.

Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

b) No

a) My conjecture would be there's a recirculating valve for the hot
water that has failed allowing crossover.

In a large building there's always the outside chance that a supply line
got crossed somewhere but the indication here that's not the issue is
the correlation w/ the spray arm not all the time.

--

Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

Never underestimate stupidity!

"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.


You either haver a bad check valve in the recirc line, or you need to add
one.

HTH Lefty.

I don't know where check valves would normally be in a system like
this, but what's happening is that when this valve is left on, it
creates a path between the hot side and the cold side without allowing
the water to exit when the sprayer is not in use. Also, the
recirculating pump must be supplying greater pressure to the hot side
than the cold. You could install check valves at that sink...or remove
the sprayer so people don't leave it on...

To be clear, you would need the check valve on the cold side at the
sink, although it wouldn't hurt to put them on both sides.

My father had a similar problem in a residence, with a
temperature control mixing valve. He ended up buying two
check valves, and install them. End of problem.

Many stores, their sprayer has a squeeze valve, and it's
possible to leave hot and cold turned on at the mixing
faucet. The syptomatic thing is to have the restaurant put
check valves under their sink.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial
toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm
is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot
water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a
minimum
floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in
the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than
10 years
old.

Do you mean remove the squeeze valve from the sprayer?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Larry The Snake Guy" wrote in message
...
I don't know where check valves would normally be in a
system like
this, but what's happening is that when this valve is left
on, it
creates a path between the hot side and the cold side
without allowing
the water to exit when the sprayer is not in use. Also, the
recirculating pump must be supplying greater pressure to the
hot side
than the cold. You could install check valves at that
sink...or remove
the sprayer so people don't leave it on...

On Sep 15, 5:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Do you mean remove the squeeze valve from the sprayer?

Sorry, what I meant was that one option would be to remove the whole
sprayer mechanism (including the valve) which might mean replacing the
faucet. If the sprayer gets used a lot, that might not be a good
option. Or maybe they could get a sprayer without a lever on it. That
way they are forced to turn off the faucet...

If they like the sprayer, adding check valves under the sink would
probably be a better option, which should take someone with a little
plumbing experience 5 minutes if you can find check valves with the
same thread size as the faucet lines (and if there are cutoff valves
at the sink).

Limp Arbor wrote in news:fe6c1cac-9dc2-4c81-9aba-
:

I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.




First thing I wondered was how do you know this?!

On Sep 15, 6:33*pm, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Do you mean remove the squeeze valve from the sprayer?

Sorry, what I meant was that one option would be to remove the whole
sprayer mechanism (including the valve) which might mean replacing the
faucet. If the sprayer gets used a lot, that might not be a good
option. Or maybe they could get a sprayer without a lever on it. That
way they are forced to turn off the faucet...

If they like the sprayer, adding check valves under the sink would
probably be a better option, which should take someone with a little
plumbing experience 5 minutes if you can find check valves with the
same thread size as the faucet lines (and if there are cutoff valves
at the sink).

Larry in dead-on about this...if you put a valve (sprayer) after a
mixing valve it allows a back-feed when there is a demand on the
cold...water passes through the mixer from hot to cold. HTMS

bob_v

On Sep 15, 5:34*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
My father had a similar problem in a residence, with a
temperature control mixing valve. He ended up buying two
check valves, and install them. End of problem.

Many stores, their sprayer has a squeeze valve, and it's
possible to leave hot and cold turned on at the mixing
faucet. The syptomatic thing is to have the restaurant put
check valves *under their sink.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Limp Arbor" wrote in message

...
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial
toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm
is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot
water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a
minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in
the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than
10 years
old.

I finally went to the kitchen and took a look. What is happening is
the H&C faucets are being left on and because of the circulator pumps
keeping the hot side pressurized whenever someone goes to a water
fountain or flushes a toilet the hot is crossing through the faucet
into the cold water.

Weird that a check valve is not required in this situation or the
inspector missed it.

Thanks.

Good detective work. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us,
always good to learn.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
...

I finally went to the kitchen and took a look. What is
happening is
the H&C faucets are being left on and because of the
circulator pumps
keeping the hot side pressurized whenever someone goes to a
water
fountain or flushes a toilet the hot is crossing through the
faucet
into the cold water.

Weird that a check valve is not required in this situation
or the
inspector missed it.

Thanks.

On Sep 15, 2:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

How was the hot water discovered????

On Sep 16, 11:10*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Sep 15, 2:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:

I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

How was the hot water discovered????

It was deep too...

On Sep 15, 3:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

We don't even have indoor plumbing in certain areas of WV, so please
leave us out of this.

On Sep 18, 8:52*am, Mike wrote:
On Sep 15, 3:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:

I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

We don't even have indoor plumbing in certain areas of WV, so please
leave us out of this.

I know. Good friend of mine is from Moatstown, WV.

On Sep 17, 1:53*pm, Josh wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03





wrote:
On Sep 15, 3:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on
in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water.
Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum
floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the
basement.

Could this possibly be by design?

No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years
old.

I had a similar (and intermittent) problem in my house, but the warm
water was supplied to *all* cold fixtures, basically "reversing" what
came out of all of my faucets, showers, toilets, etc. Warm from cold
taps, cold from warm.

We finally tracked it down to the "Y" hose on the spigot outside the
garage. I have both a hot water and cold water spigot by the garage.
The cold supply is before the pressure reducer, thus at street
pressure. The hot supply, which obviously comes from the WH, is after
the pressure reducer.

If we leave the spigots open, with a hose attached and the spray
nozzle closed, the higher pressure cold will force it's way into the
hot water line, back to the WH and force HW up through the cold water
pipes.

This puzzled us for many years, since it only happened on rare
occasions. One day I noticed it happening as my son was washing his
car and a few simple tests confirmed the cause.

This is a very good examply of why vacuum breakers on hose bibbs (a
form of check valve) aren't just nuisance code, but are a good idea --
here you were just feeding your potable water through a bit of Y hose;
maybe a health issue, maybe not, but imagine the same hose sitting in
the kids' wading pool (after they've used it for whatever kids do), or
the muddy pool of much near the garden. *All it takes is a low
pressure event (within your house or from a neighbor or fire hydrant
etc), and that dirty water is sucked into your house plumbing, into
your next glass of "fresh" water.

I couldn't stand the vacuum breakers our builder installed because
they sprayed water at you every time you turned off the faucet, but
after replacing the whole hose bibb because they were crap and leaking
elsewhere, I found that the new ones work great without spraying.

Josh- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

imagine the same hose sitting in the kids' wading pool (after
they've used it for whatever kids do), or the muddy pool of mulch near
the garden.

You now, the more I thought about your comments, the more I doubt it
would be an issue in my case.

Let's start with the fact that the only time the hose could suck water
out of the pool/puddle is if the hose was open. Now, if the hose was
open and both the hot and cold water were on, then the force of cold
water would be pushing water *out* of the hose, not pushing the hot
water back into the house. If this weren't the case, I would never had
be able to fill the wading pool with warm water or for that matter,
ever get warm water out of the hose, which I do.

The only time the problem occurs in when the hose end is closed and
the cold water has no place to go but back into the house.