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Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and
urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 15, 12:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. Sounds like a huge screw-up to me. Maybe the lowest bidder got the job. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? b) No a) My conjecture would be there's a recirculating valve for the hot water that has failed allowing crossover. In a large building there's always the outside chance that a supply line got crossed somewhere but the indication here that's not the issue is the correlation w/ the spray arm not all the time. -- |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. Never underestimate stupidity! |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
"Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. You either haver a bad check valve in the recirc line, or you need to add one. HTH Lefty. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
I don't know where check valves would normally be in a system like
this, but what's happening is that when this valve is left on, it creates a path between the hot side and the cold side without allowing the water to exit when the sprayer is not in use. Also, the recirculating pump must be supplying greater pressure to the hot side than the cold. You could install check valves at that sink...or remove the sprayer so people don't leave it on... |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
To be clear, you would need the check valve on the cold side at the
sink, although it wouldn't hurt to put them on both sides. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
My father had a similar problem in a residence, with a
temperature control mixing valve. He ended up buying two check valves, and install them. End of problem. Many stores, their sprayer has a squeeze valve, and it's possible to leave hot and cold turned on at the mixing faucet. The syptomatic thing is to have the restaurant put check valves under their sink. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
Do you mean remove the squeeze valve from the sprayer?
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Larry The Snake Guy" wrote in message ... I don't know where check valves would normally be in a system like this, but what's happening is that when this valve is left on, it creates a path between the hot side and the cold side without allowing the water to exit when the sprayer is not in use. Also, the recirculating pump must be supplying greater pressure to the hot side than the cold. You could install check valves at that sink...or remove the sprayer so people don't leave it on... |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 15, 5:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Do you mean remove the squeeze valve from the sprayer? Sorry, what I meant was that one option would be to remove the whole sprayer mechanism (including the valve) which might mean replacing the faucet. If the sprayer gets used a lot, that might not be a good option. Or maybe they could get a sprayer without a lever on it. That way they are forced to turn off the faucet... If they like the sprayer, adding check valves under the sink would probably be a better option, which should take someone with a little plumbing experience 5 minutes if you can find check valves with the same thread size as the faucet lines (and if there are cutoff valves at the sink). |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
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Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 15, 6:33*pm, Larry The Snake Guy wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Do you mean remove the squeeze valve from the sprayer? Sorry, what I meant was that one option would be to remove the whole sprayer mechanism (including the valve) which might mean replacing the faucet. If the sprayer gets used a lot, that might not be a good option. Or maybe they could get a sprayer without a lever on it. That way they are forced to turn off the faucet... If they like the sprayer, adding check valves under the sink would probably be a better option, which should take someone with a little plumbing experience 5 minutes if you can find check valves with the same thread size as the faucet lines (and if there are cutoff valves at the sink). Larry in dead-on about this...if you put a valve (sprayer) after a mixing valve it allows a back-feed when there is a demand on the cold...water passes through the mixer from hot to cold. HTMS bob_v |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 15, 5:34*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: My father had a similar problem in a residence, with a temperature control mixing valve. He ended up buying two check valves, and install them. End of problem. Many stores, their sprayer has a squeeze valve, and it's possible to leave hot and cold turned on at the mixing faucet. The syptomatic thing is to have the restaurant put check valves *under their sink. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. I finally went to the kitchen and took a look. What is happening is the H&C faucets are being left on and because of the circulator pumps keeping the hot side pressurized whenever someone goes to a water fountain or flushes a toilet the hot is crossing through the faucet into the cold water. Weird that a check valve is not required in this situation or the inspector missed it. Thanks. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
Good detective work. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us,
always good to learn. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Limp Arbor" wrote in message ... I finally went to the kitchen and took a look. What is happening is the H&C faucets are being left on and because of the circulator pumps keeping the hot side pressurized whenever someone goes to a water fountain or flushes a toilet the hot is crossing through the faucet into the cold water. Weird that a check valve is not required in this situation or the inspector missed it. Thanks. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 15, 2:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. How was the hot water discovered???? |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 16, 11:10*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote: On Sep 15, 2:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote: I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. How was the hot water discovered???? It was deep too... |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 15, 3:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. We don't even have indoor plumbing in certain areas of WV, so please leave us out of this. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 18, 8:52*am, Mike wrote:
On Sep 15, 3:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote: I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. We don't even have indoor plumbing in certain areas of WV, so please leave us out of this. I know. Good friend of mine is from Moatstown, WV. |
Hot water in toilets and urinals - commercial bldg.
On Sep 17, 1:53*pm, Josh wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sep 15, 3:08*pm, Limp Arbor wrote: I work in a 4 story building with standard commercial toilets and urinals. *For some reason when the valve for the spray arm is left on in the kitchen the toilets and urinals get supplied with hot water. Kitchen is on the 2nd floor and the warm toilets affect at a minimum floors 1 through 3. *The building has circulator pumps in the basement. Could this possibly be by design? No this is not in WV. *It is in NJ in a building less than 10 years old. I had a similar (and intermittent) problem in my house, but the warm water was supplied to *all* cold fixtures, basically "reversing" what came out of all of my faucets, showers, toilets, etc. Warm from cold taps, cold from warm. We finally tracked it down to the "Y" hose on the spigot outside the garage. I have both a hot water and cold water spigot by the garage. The cold supply is before the pressure reducer, thus at street pressure. The hot supply, which obviously comes from the WH, is after the pressure reducer. If we leave the spigots open, with a hose attached and the spray nozzle closed, the higher pressure cold will force it's way into the hot water line, back to the WH and force HW up through the cold water pipes. This puzzled us for many years, since it only happened on rare occasions. One day I noticed it happening as my son was washing his car and a few simple tests confirmed the cause. This is a very good examply of why vacuum breakers on hose bibbs (a form of check valve) aren't just nuisance code, but are a good idea -- here you were just feeding your potable water through a bit of Y hose; maybe a health issue, maybe not, but imagine the same hose sitting in the kids' wading pool (after they've used it for whatever kids do), or the muddy pool of much near the garden. *All it takes is a low pressure event (within your house or from a neighbor or fire hydrant etc), and that dirty water is sucked into your house plumbing, into your next glass of "fresh" water. I couldn't stand the vacuum breakers our builder installed because they sprayed water at you every time you turned off the faucet, but after replacing the whole hose bibb because they were crap and leaking elsewhere, I found that the new ones work great without spraying. Josh- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - imagine the same hose sitting in the kids' wading pool (after they've used it for whatever kids do), or the muddy pool of mulch near the garden. You now, the more I thought about your comments, the more I doubt it would be an issue in my case. Let's start with the fact that the only time the hose could suck water out of the pool/puddle is if the hose was open. Now, if the hose was open and both the hot and cold water were on, then the force of cold water would be pushing water *out* of the hose, not pushing the hot water back into the house. If this weren't the case, I would never had be able to fill the wading pool with warm water or for that matter, ever get warm water out of the hose, which I do. The only time the problem occurs in when the hose end is closed and the cold water has no place to go but back into the house. |
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