wrote:
http://www.google.com/search?q=home%...&ned=us&tab=nw

hey bud if you can comprehend whats in this link you might better
understand whats going on

Hey hallerb - do you *ever* read links?

Looking at the first 10 links there was *one* (anecdotal) report of a
fire. Anecdotal evidence in this thread (Clare's relative) proves Romex
is unsafe. There were 2 pictures of charring, and one picture of a fire
where there was no reason to believe the fire was caused by K&T.

We also find "no ground wire, making the use of GFCI style electrical
outlets (receptacles) and GFCI and AFCI breakers useless".

And "the wires in knob-and-tube are aluminum" which is a problem because
copper and aluminum "carry current at slightly different speeds" and
"copper into aluminum is where things get tricky - if the water
(current) flows faster thru copper than thru aluminum, you are going to
get a backup at that junction." This came from someone who sells insurance.


If you read your own links you "might better understand whats [sic]
going on."
All your opinions have been demolished by your own source from your own
state.

But unable to admit you are wrong, you just continue trolling.

You are still unable to answer even one question.

Why does _your own source_ not bring the whole house up to the current
code like you say is required? Your source does only the electrical work
it wants to - often very little. Is your source wrong or are you wrong?

_Your own source_ doesn't even remove all the K&T wiring. Isn't your
source as smart as you are? How can they do that in your home state?

Does the NEC still allow K&T to be refed, just like it was in my
mother's old house over 50 years ago? Like your own source does?

Why does _your own source_ say "properly installed and unaltered K&T
wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you
wrong?
You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why
weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't
your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums
why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid?
Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow
NEC rules?

Why was the NEC change not based on data indicating a problem?
Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow
insulating K&T wiring?
Why does _your own source_ insulate over K&T? Aren't they as smart as
you are?
Why does your own state, PA, also allow insulating over K&T (as is done
by your source)?
Why did the "Illinois report", to a state agency, not find significant
numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation
caused a fire? They looked for a problem and couldn't find it. Weren't
the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the
huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated? So many houses and
no problem?

Why can I answer your questions but you can't even answer one of my
questions? Aren't you smart enough to answer questions?

--
bud--

http://www.nfpa.org/index.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1

do you know who creates NEC regulations?

Disadvantages

Historically, wiring installation standards were less stringent in the
age of knob-and-tube wiring than today. Compared to modern electrical
wiring standards, the main shortcomings of knob-and-tube wiring a
knob-and-tube wiring never included a safety grounding conductor; did
not confine switching to the hot conductor (the so-called Carter
SystemCarter system
The Carter system was a method of wiring 3-way switches in the era of
knob and tube wiring. Two of the four switch combinations are
dangerous, and this wiring method has been prohibited by the National
Electrical Code since 1923....
places loads across the common terminals of a three-way switch pair);
and it permitted the use of in-line splices in walls without a
junction box (and thus exposing a potential fire hazard of an
uncontained spark caused by arcing following mechanical failure of the
splice). Compared to modern thermoplastic wiring insulation, the K&T
wiring was less resistant to damage, but had a higher temperature
rating.

Knob and tube wiring can be made with great ampacity. However, most
existing residential knob and tube installations, dating to before
1940, lack the ampacity that is desired today because of the paucity
of circuits and the fineness of the wire gauge. Although these
installations were adequate for the electrical loads at the time of
installation, modern households use a range and intensity of
electrical equipment unforeseen at the time. Homebuyers often find
that existing K&T systems lack the ampacity needed for today's levels
of power use. As household power use increased following the Second
World War (because more appliances per household were being plugged
in), first-generation wiring systems became susceptible to abuse by
homeowners who would avoid repeatedly blowing fusesFuse (electrical)
In electronics and electrical engineering a fuse is a type of
overcurrent protection device. Its essential component is a metal wire
or strip that melts when too much current flows, which breaks the
electrical network in which it is connected, thus protecting the
circuit's other components from damage due to excessive current....
by overfusing the circuits, thus subjecting the wiring to heat damage
due to higher levels of current.

Knob-and-tube wiring may also have been damaged by building
renovations. Its rubber insulation will be dried-out, thus
brittleBrittle
A material is brittle if it is liable to fracture when subjected to
stress . That is, it has little tendency to deform before fracture.
This fracture absorbs relatively little energy, even in materials of
high Strength of materials, and usually makes a snapping sound....
when handled, or it may have been damaged by rodents or carelessness
(for example, hanging objects off wiring running in accessible areas
like basementBasement
A basement is one or more Storey of a building that are either
completely or partially below the ground floor. Slab-on-grade
foundation buildings do not have basements....
s).

Currently the United States NECNational Electrical Code (US)
The National Electrical Code , or NFPA 70, is a United States standard
for the safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment. It is
part of the National Fire Codes series published by the National Fire
Protection Association ....
forbids use of loose, blown-in, or expanding foam insulationBuilding
insulation
Building insulation refers broadly to any object in a building used as
insulation for any purpose. Whilst the majority of insulation in
buildings is for thermal insulation purposes, the term also applies to
acoustic insulation, Fireproofing, and Cushioning ....
over K&T wiring. This is because K&T is designed to let heat
dissipate to the surrounding air. As a result, energy efficiency
upgrades that involve insulating previously uninsulated walls usually
also require replacement of the wiring in affected homes.

As existing K&T wiring gets ever older, insurance companies may deny
coverage due to increased risk. Several companies will not write new
homeowners policiesHome insurance
Home insurance, also commonly called hazard insurance or homeowners
insurance , is the type of property insurance that covers private
homes....
at all unless all K&T wiring is replaced or an electrician has
certified that the wiring is in good condition.

wrote:
http://www.nfpa.org/index.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1

do you know who creates NEC regulations?


Wow - you know who the NFPA is.
And you found an entry portal. That says absolutely nothing.
What is your point?


Disadvantages

Wow - you can copy.
No source given.
What is your point?

Apparently just that you are still trolling.

You could just admit you are wrong.
Your opinions have been demolished by your own source from your own state.

I forgot to ask yesterday. Do you agree with one of your top 10 google
search links?
"The wires in knob-and-tube are aluminum" which is a problem because
copper and aluminum "carry current at slightly different speeds" and
"copper into aluminum is where things get tricky - if the water
(current) flows faster thru copper than thru aluminum, you are going to
get a backup at that junction"
The source was an insurance salesman. You always agree with insurance
people.

How about your #2 google search link?
We also find "no ground wire, making the use of GFCI style electrical
outlets (receptacles) and GFCI and AFCI breakers useless".


Still not able to answer even answer one question?

Why does _your own source_ not bring the whole house up to the current
code like you say is required? Your source does only the electrical work
it wants to - often very little. Is your source wrong or are you wrong?

_Your own source_ doesn't even remove all the K&T wiring. Isn't your
source as smart as you are? How can they do that in your home state?

Does the NEC still allow K&T to be refed, just like it was in my
mother's old house over 50 years ago? Like your own source does?

Why does _your own source_ say "properly installed and unaltered K&T
wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you
wrong?
You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why
weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't
your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums
why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid?
Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow
NEC rules?

Why was the NEC change not based on data indicating a problem?
Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow
insulating K&T wiring?
Why does _your own source_ insulate over K&T? Aren't they as smart as
you are?
Why does your own state, PA, also allow insulating over K&T (as is done
by your source)?
Why did the "Illinois report", to a state agency, not find significant
numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation
caused a fire? They looked for a problem and couldn't find it. Weren't
the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the
huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated? So many houses and
no problem?

--
bud--

Why did the "Illinois report", to a state agency, not find significant
numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation
caused a fire? They looked for a problem and couldn't find it. Weren't
the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the
huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated? So many houses and
no problem?

--
bud--


Have you checvked recently for updates on the illinois report?

NEC prohibiting insulating around K&T, a wiring 70 plus years or older
with no grounds, insulation falling off, connections buried in walls
making it impossible to inspect, no boxes meaning a overheated
connection is more likely to cause a fire, wiring with most rooms
having just one outlet, with extension cords, their own fire hazard
run amuck, unaltered K&T lacking GFCIs , grounds and every other
safety upgrade............

geez why would you want it? beyond its cheap?

just like the old car wrecking into a 2009, which bud never commented
on.

the driver of the 59 belair very dead, the 2009 malibu driver
survives.

yeah bud why bother with updating your home.??

a 80 year old home has had lots of paint jobs over its life, if you
totaled up just the cost of painting its probably enough to pay for a
complete rewire.

no one really ever owns a home, we are entrusted it for our lifetime,
which a home is generally many times a humans lifetime.

so be like some friends, tar the roof when it leaks dont reshingle,
dont paint the exterior, it just needs painted again, just let your
home ROT, most likely it will outlive you anyway, just be the eyesore
of the neighborhood

if you were really a electrician you would love K&T since its a chance
to rewire homes bringing safety and convenience, plus a profit for
YOU........

you just talk drivel, which demeans any posts you make here.

and calling me a retard? do you have any idea of how many mentally
deficent people there are in the country? most family members take
great offense of retard remarks............

funny on how badly you have made yourself look................

wrote:
Why did the "Illinois report", to a state agency, not find significant
numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation
caused a fire? They looked for a problem and couldn't find it. Weren't
the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the
huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated? So many houses and
no problem?

--
bud--


Have you checvked recently for updates on the illinois report?

Have you considered just admitting you are wrong instead of trolling?
_Your own source_ disagrees with *all* your opinions.

Have you considered answering even answer one of the questions?

Do you agree with one of your top 10 google search links?
"The wires in knob-and-tube are aluminum" which is a problem because
copper and aluminum "carry current at slightly different speeds" and
"copper into aluminum is where things get tricky - if the water
(current) flows faster thru copper than thru aluminum, you are going to
get a backup at that junction"
The source was an insurance salesman. You always agree with insurance
people.

How about your #2 google search link?
We also find "no ground wire, making the use of GFCI style electrical
outlets (receptacles) and GFCI and AFCI breakers useless".


Do you agree with one of your top 10 google search links?
"The wires in knob-and-tube are aluminum" which is a problem because
copper and aluminum "carry current at slightly different speeds" and
"copper into aluminum is where things get tricky - if the water
(current) flows faster thru copper than thru aluminum, you are going to
get a backup at that junction"
The source was an insurance salesman. You always agree with insurance
people.

How about your #2 google search link?
We also find "no ground wire, making the use of GFCI style electrical
outlets (receptacles) and GFCI and AFCI breakers useless".

Why does _your own source_ not bring the whole house up to the current
code like you say is required? Your source does only the electrical work
it wants to - often very little. Is your source wrong or are you wrong?

_Your own source_ doesn't even remove all the K&T wiring. Isn't your
source as smart as you are? How can they do that in your home state?

Does the NEC still allow K&T to be refed, just like it was in my
mother's old house over 50 years ago? Like your own source does?

Why does _your own source_ say "properly installed and unaltered K&T
wiring is not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you
wrong?
You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why
weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't
your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums
why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid?
Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow
NEC rules?

Why was the NEC change not based on data indicating a problem?
Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow
insulating K&T wiring?
Why does _your own source_ insulate over K&T? Aren't they as smart as
you are?
Why does your own state, PA, also allow insulating over K&T (as is done
by your source)?
Why did the "Illinois report", to a state agency, not find significant
numbers of house with K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation
caused a fire? They looked for a problem and couldn't find it. Weren't
the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the
huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated? So many houses and
no problem?

Why can I answer your questions but you can't even answer one of my
questions? Aren't you smart enough to answer questions?

--
bud--

Bud and hallerb, why not get a room since you're so in love? You're both
complete idiots, not for having an opinion, but for dragging this
argument on forever and ever. Neither of you will ever change the
other's mind about anything, so just ****ing let it go. You guys must be
awfully bored with your lives to invest so much time in such a futile
argument. Get a ****ing hobby, fer christ's sake, or maybe some pussy.