After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right at
my little local Ace Hardware store.

Some background: My preference for finishing and refinishing wood, when
appropriate, is regular old oil-based varnish. Hate polyurethane; don't
have spray equipment for lacquer (which I used when I worked on
guitars). I've been nursing a quart can of McCloskey varnish for about
10 years now, and it's getting depleted. So I started looking around for
something to replace it with.

I knew what I wanted. McCloskey no longer exists as a brand; they were
bought by Cabot (part of the Valpar "family"), and I found what looked
like the equivalent product, their gloss varnish:

http://www.cabotstain.com/products/p...20Top%20Co at

What I wanted was the "old school" product, their #8000. Unfortunately,
after much calling around, I discovered that I cannot buy that product
here in California; all I can get is the "modified" version, their
#18000. And even finding this was a gigantic pain in the ass.

I called every single local paint store here in the East Bay. The best I
could get was an offer to order the stuff, and even that turned out to
be impractical (their distributor couldn't get it, or I'd have to order
10 cans of it, etc., etc.)

Finally found a store in San Francisco that had the stuff, and even then
I had to convince the store staff that they *did* have it, and then they
expressed surprise, and had only one can. So I bought it, something like
$20.

The stuff turned out to be pure ****.

I used it the other day on a desktop I'm making for a client, stained
birch plywood. I put on the first coat in the morning. It looked OK, so
I went out to work and left it to dry. When I came back and checked it
about 8 hours later, the stuff was still tacky, and it had glopped and
coagulated and orange-peeled like crazy.

A little while ago while exploring what has to be the greatest Ace
Hardware store of them all around here (Pagano's in Alameda), I found a
little 1/2 pint can of some varnish under Ace's brand, simply called
"solvent-based varnish". They had nothing larger, so I bought it. Used
it on my latest refinishing project (a 100-year-old wooden view camera,
my Rochester Optical Co. "Universal"). It worked beautifully. But since
I had so little of it, I was guarding it jealously. There certainly
wasn't enough for my 26x64" desktop.

So I took the little can over to my little local Ace, Ellis Ace here in
Oakland, and asked them if they could order me a quart can. Well, they
actually had several of them in stock! (The quart was only $9, less than
half what I paid for that Cabot crap.) So I took one, and used it
yesterday on my desktop. (It's item # 276A111, Ace 16385.)

Beautiful results. Just beautiful.

This stuff does exactly what one wants it to do. It brushes on smoothly,
builds up quickly, stays open and liquid long enough to move it around
and correct any drips, thick or thin spots (you can easily pick out
hairs or other foreign objects with your bare fingers, then brush over
the spot). And best of all, after applying, it lays down as flat as an
Illinois cornfield. Blessedly, shimmeringly flat. It's an absolute joy
to work with. The exact opposite of something like "brushing lacquer"
(now there's a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one!), which
drives me nuts trying to work to get it flat without brushstrokes in the
alotted 50-millisecond time period. Or polyurethane, with its
inauthentic, plasticky-looking surface.

For those who are searching for a good wood finishing solution where a
high-gloss surface is appropriate, I highly recommend this stuff.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

snip

Beautiful results. Just beautiful.

Thanks a bunch for sharing a positive result. There.s a good Ace
Hardware in our area , so I plan to checkout their stock put away some
for future projects.

snip

it lays down as flat as an Illinois cornfield.

Anybody flying to LA from O'Hare can confirm that. Very impressive
this time of ear with 7' cornstalks and budding tassels. Soybean
fields are prettier green , though.

Joe

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Thanks for varnish info, I like varnish too.
____________

The exact
opposite of something like "brushing lacquer" (now there's a
contradiction in terms if I ever heard one!), which drives me nuts
trying to work to get it flat without brushstrokes in the alotted
50-millisecond time period.


Don't work it...flow on a generous amount L I G H T L Y and S L O W L Y,
drag out edges a bit to feather them. By "lightly" I mean the weight of the
brush and not much more. By "slowly" I mean around 4-6 seconds per foot. A
good bristle brush, BTW.

Brush on another brush load a bit away from the previous then L I G H T L Y
and S L O W L Y blend with previous edge(s) and feather edges. Then leave
it alone. It will flow together fairly well but will still look awful until
it is totally dry. Once dry, it will look fine as the amount left after
drying is a small fraction of the wet volume. IME and I've used gallons and
gallons of the stuff.

If you're getting brush strokes you are either not putting on enough or you
are pushing too hard with the brush or you are brushing too fast. Or any
combination.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
....
If you're getting brush strokes you are either not putting on enough or you
are pushing too hard with the brush or you are brushing too fast. Or any
combination.

The other "or" I'd add is the brush isn't up to the task...

--

On Jul 23, 1:31*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right at
my little local Ace Hardware store.

Some background: My preference for finishing and refinishing wood, when
appropriate, is regular old oil-based varnish. Hate polyurethane; don't
have spray equipment for lacquer (which I used when I worked on
guitars). I've been nursing a quart can of McCloskey varnish for about
10 years now, and it's getting depleted. So I started looking around for
something to replace it with.

I knew what I wanted. McCloskey no longer exists as a brand; they were
bought by Cabot (part of the Valpar "family"), and I found what looked
like the equivalent product, their gloss varnish:

http://www.cabotstain.com/products/p...?productTypeNa...

What I wanted was the "old school" product, their #8000. Unfortunately,
after much calling around, I discovered that I cannot buy that product
here in California; all I can get is the "modified" version, their
#18000. And even finding this was a gigantic pain in the ass.

I called every single local paint store here in the East Bay. The best I
could get was an offer to order the stuff, and even that turned out to
be impractical (their distributor couldn't get it, or I'd have to order
10 cans of it, etc., etc.)

Finally found a store in San Francisco that had the stuff, and even then
I had to convince the store staff that they *did* have it, and then they
expressed surprise, and had only one can. So I bought it, something like
$20.

The stuff turned out to be pure ****.

I used it the other day on a desktop I'm making for a client, stained
birch plywood. I put on the first coat in the morning. It looked OK, so
I went out to work and left it to dry. When I came back and checked it
about 8 hours later, the stuff was still tacky, and it had glopped and
coagulated and orange-peeled like crazy.

A little while ago while exploring what has to be the greatest Ace
Hardware store of them all around here (Pagano's in Alameda), I found a
little 1/2 pint can of some varnish under Ace's brand, simply called
"solvent-based varnish". They had nothing larger, so I bought it. Used
it on my latest refinishing project (a 100-year-old wooden view camera,
my Rochester Optical Co. "Universal"). It worked beautifully. But since
I had so little of it, I was guarding it jealously. There certainly
wasn't enough for my 26x64" desktop.

So I took the little can over to my little local Ace, Ellis Ace here in
Oakland, and asked them if they could order me a quart can. Well, they
actually had several of them in stock! (The quart was only $9, less than
half what I paid for that Cabot crap.) So I took one, and used it
yesterday on my desktop. (It's item # 276A111, Ace 16385.)

Beautiful results. Just beautiful.

This stuff does exactly what one wants it to do. It brushes on smoothly,
builds up quickly, stays open and liquid long enough to move it around
and correct any drips, thick or thin spots (you can easily pick out
hairs or other foreign objects with your bare fingers, then brush over
the spot). And best of all, after applying, it lays down as flat as an
Illinois cornfield. Blessedly, shimmeringly flat. It's an absolute joy
to work with. The exact opposite of something like "brushing lacquer"
(now there's a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one!), which
drives me nuts trying to work to get it flat without brushstrokes in the
alotted 50-millisecond time period. Or polyurethane, with its
inauthentic, plasticky-looking surface.

For those who are searching for a good wood finishing solution where a
high-gloss surface is appropriate, I highly recommend this stuff.

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

You nursed a lousy quart of varnish 10 years! Thats a laugh and a
half, I bet it was full of crap 7 years ago, A normal year for me was
20-40 gallons. I guess in 50 years or so you might just go through
enough quarts to find the real good stuff, and its not at Ace.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.

[...]

A little while ago while exploring what has to be the greatest Ace
Hardware store of them all around here (Pagano's in Alameda), I found
a little 1/2 pint can of some varnish under Ace's brand, simply called
"solvent-based varnish". They had nothing larger, so I bought it. Used
it on my latest refinishing project (a 100-year-old wooden view
camera, my Rochester Optical Co. "Universal"). It worked beautifully.
But since I had so little of it, I was guarding it jealously. There
certainly wasn't enough for my 26x64" desktop.

So I took the little can over to my little local Ace, Ellis Ace here
in Oakland, and asked them if they could order me a quart can. Well,
they actually had several of them in stock! (The quart was only $9,
less than half what I paid for that Cabot crap.) So I took one, and
used it yesterday on my desktop. (It's item # 276A111, Ace 16385.)


Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their web
site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

HeyBub wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.

snip

Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their web
site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Nova wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.

snip
Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their web
site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385

That's a 1/2 pint container.

The gallon is 16391, the quart is 16389.

Chris

on 7/23/2009 6:14 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:
HeyBub wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.

snip

Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their
web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385


$32.50 for a half pint?

willshak wrote:
on 7/23/2009 6:14 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:

HeyBub wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.


snip


Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their
web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.


See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385


$32.50 for a half pint?

A case of 6 - 1/2 pints.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

on 7/23/2009 6:44 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:
willshak wrote:
on 7/23/2009 6:14 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:

HeyBub wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my
Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.


snip


Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on
their web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.


See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385


$32.50 for a half pint?

A case of 6 - 1/2 pints.

I guess I skipped over that part.

willshak writes:
on 7/23/2009 6:44 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:
willshak wrote:
on 7/23/2009 6:14 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:

HeyBub wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my
Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.


snip


Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on
their web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.


See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385


$32.50 for a half pint?

A case of 6 - 1/2 pints.

I guess I skipped over that part.

Four qts for $38.87 at

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...sh-p-5857.html

2 gals for $47.54 at

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...sh-p-5858.html

on 7/23/2009 7:36 PM (ET) Scott Lurndal wrote the following:
willshak writes:

on 7/23/2009 6:44 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:

willshak wrote:

on 7/23/2009 6:14 PM (ET) Nova wrote the following:


HeyBub wrote:


David Nebenzahl wrote:


After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my
Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.

snip


Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on
their web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385



$32.50 for a half pint?

A case of 6 - 1/2 pints.


I guess I skipped over that part.


Four qts for $38.87 at

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...sh-p-5857.html

2 gals for $47.54 at

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...sh-p-5858.html


Even better, A 55 gallon drum for $98.95
Nah. Just kidding. :-)

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their web
site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.


Or if it is a franchise store, that particular store orders it from a
different source.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la, the
sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right at my
little local Ace Hardware store.

Some background: My preference for finishing and refinishing wood, when
appropriate, is regular old oil-based varnish. Hate polyurethane; don't
have spray equipment for lacquer (which I used when I worked on guitars).
I've been nursing a quart can of McCloskey varnish for about 10 years now,
and it's getting depleted. So I started looking around for something to
replace it with.


Gosh Dave, finishes do go bad. If you have been using a 10 year old quart
of finish you may have been missing out on more modern finishes. The
product that the store had "1" of may have been way past it's shelf life.

Anyway, I use a bit more than 1 quart every 10 years. ;~) , but have been
having good luck with General Finishes for the last 30 years and more
recently Lawrence McFadden products. IIRC Lawrence McFadden products are
only available on line however they are a family owned company that has been
around longer than me.

Nova wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my
Shangri-la, the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was
available right at my little local Ace Hardware store.

snip

Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on
their web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385

Ha! Thanks. But it looks like the 'droid who spoke to me would know the
difference...

I was looking on this site:
http://www.acehardware.com/home/inde...d=PPC:76293361

Notice the different URLs: "acehardwaresuperstore" vs. "acehardware"

On 7/23/2009 2:14 PM HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right
at my little local Ace Hardware store.

Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on their web
site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

Nah, it's their useless web site. Even the people who work at Aces will
tell you that their website sucks. No point even looking there for anything.

I asked when I bought the quart and was told that it was a
currently-available item (even though the can had quite a bit of dust on
the lid, which is why I asked).


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On 7/23/2009 5:06 PM Leon spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la, the
sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right at my
little local Ace Hardware store.

Some background: My preference for finishing and refinishing wood, when
appropriate, is regular old oil-based varnish. Hate polyurethane; don't
have spray equipment for lacquer (which I used when I worked on guitars).
I've been nursing a quart can of McCloskey varnish for about 10 years now,
and it's getting depleted. So I started looking around for something to
replace it with.

Gosh Dave, finishes do go bad. If you have been using a 10 year old quart
of finish you may have been missing out on more modern finishes. The
product that the store had "1" of may have been way past it's shelf life.

Well, that's the point--actually 2 of them:

1. Another great thing about good old-fashioned oil-based (or
"solvent-based" if you prefer) varnish is that it has, as far as I can
tell, a near-infinite shelf life, provided it's carefully sealed between
uses. I've used varnish that was actually older than that and it was
still fine.

2. My point is that I prefer this old-school stuff to more modren
finishes. Certainly to that crap I got from Cabot, which is apparently
the latest technology.

Anyway, I use a bit more than 1 quart every 10 years. ;~) , but have been
having good luck with General Finishes for the last 30 years and more
recently Lawrence McFadden products. IIRC Lawrence McFadden products are
only available on line however they are a family owned company that has been
around longer than me.

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 7/23/2009 5:06 PM Leon spake thus:
Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?

http://lawrence-mcfadden.com/

http://www.generalfinishes.com/

In .com,
David Nebenzahl spewed forth:
On 7/23/2009 5:06 PM Leon spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my
Shangri-la, the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was
available right at my little local Ace Hardware store.

Some background: My preference for finishing and refinishing wood,
when appropriate, is regular old oil-based varnish. Hate
polyurethane; don't have spray equipment for lacquer (which I used
when I worked on guitars). I've been nursing a quart can of
McCloskey varnish for about 10 years now, and it's getting
depleted. So I started looking around for something to replace it
with.

Gosh Dave, finishes do go bad. If you have been using a 10 year old
quart of finish you may have been missing out on more modern
finishes. The product that the store had "1" of may have been way
past it's shelf life.

Well, that's the point--actually 2 of them:

1. Another great thing about good old-fashioned oil-based (or
"solvent-based" if you prefer) varnish is that it has, as far as I can
tell, a near-infinite shelf life, provided it's carefully sealed
between uses. I've used varnish that was actually older than that and
it was still fine.

2. My point is that I prefer this old-school stuff to more modren
finishes. Certainly to that crap I got from Cabot, which is apparently
the latest technology.

Anyway, I use a bit more than 1 quart every 10 years. ;~) , but
have been having good luck with General Finishes for the last 30
years and more recently Lawrence McFadden products. IIRC Lawrence
McFadden products are only available on line however they are a
family owned company that has been around longer than me.

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?


not McFadden, but

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...br=627&atomz=1

On 7/23/2009 7:39 PM Leon spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?

http://lawrence-mcfadden.com/

No oil-based varnish there that I can see. Lots of lacquer, sealers,
polyurethane, but not what I'm looking for.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/

None there either. Under "Oil Based Finishes" they have

o Oilbase wood stains (nope)
o Arm-R-Seal topcoats (nope: urethane, not what I want)
o Gel stains
o Danish oils & outdoor oil
o Salad bowl finish


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On 7/23/2009 9:40 PM ChairMan spake thus:

In .com,
David Nebenzahl spewed forth:

On 7/23/2009 5:06 PM Leon spake thus:

Anyway, I use a bit more than 1 quart every 10 years. ;~) , but
have been having good luck with General Finishes for the last 30
years and more recently Lawrence McFadden products. IIRC Lawrence
McFadden products are only available on line however they are a
family owned company that has been around longer than me.

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?

not McFadden, but

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...br=627&atomz=1

Good god, man, did you even look at that page? It's *white* varnish. Sheesh.

Now this stuff might be closer:
http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictNbr=216

At least it's clear. But I kinda doubt it; looks more like spar varnish.
(Undoubtedly good for exterior finishing, but that's not what I'm after.)


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 7/23/2009 7:39 PM Leon spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?

http://lawrence-mcfadden.com/

No oil-based varnish there that I can see. Lots of lacquer, sealers,
polyurethane, but not what I'm looking for.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/

None there either. Under "Oil Based Finishes" they have

o Oilbase wood stains (nope)
o Arm-R-Seal topcoats (nope: urethane, not what I want)
o Gel stains
o Danish oils & outdoor oil
o Salad bowl finish

Try Pettit, Interlux, and Epifanes. All have oil based varnishes. Good
luck finding any of them if you're Californicated though.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 7/23/2009 9:40 PM ChairMan spake thus:

In .com,
David Nebenzahl spewed forth:

On 7/23/2009 5:06 PM Leon spake thus:

Anyway, I use a bit more than 1 quart every 10 years. ;~) , but
have been having good luck with General Finishes for the last 30
years and more recently Lawrence McFadden products. IIRC Lawrence
McFadden products are only available on line however they are a
family owned company that has been around longer than me.

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?

not McFadden, but

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...br=627&atomz=1

Good god, man, did you even look at that page? It's *white* varnish.
Sheesh.

Now this stuff might be closer:
http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictNbr=216

At least it's clear. But I kinda doubt it; looks more like spar
varnish. (Undoubtedly good for exterior finishing, but that's not
what I'm after.)

Perhaps if you explained exactly what result you were going after it would
help people steer you to an appropriate product.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

Do they make a traditional oil-based varnish? Any links?


I guess my original response was to point out that the more modern finishes
regardless of brands are better than they were 10 years ago. Not all
brands are created equal. General finishes has oil based poly finishes, you
may or may not like this particular brands oil based poly finish.
Personally I dislike a high closs finish.

Concerning the General Finishes Arm-r-Seal "Gloss" oil based poly varnish, I
get great results with wiping on a base coat to seal the wood followed up
with a "single" final coat. That final coat goes on with, " and several
years ago I thought I would never say this" a premium quality Wooster "foam"
brush. Using a 3" brush you can normally cover 1.5 - 2 sq feet with a
single dip to the can. That really helps to eleminate lap and brush marks
and the surface settls out nicely.

You really have to try the better brands to decide iwhether you like the
finish or not.

"Leon" wrote in message
years ago I thought I would never say this" a premium quality Wooster
"foam"
brush.

And what prompted you to use a foam brush? Considering the poor reputation
that many/most have as a finishing tool, why take the chance?

David Nebenzahl wrote:
After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my Shangri-la,
the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was available right at
my little local Ace Hardware store.

Some background: My preference for finishing and refinishing wood, when
appropriate, is regular old oil-based varnish. Hate polyurethane; don't
have spray equipment for lacquer (which I used when I worked on
guitars). I've been nursing a quart can of McCloskey varnish for about
10 years now, and it's getting depleted. So I started looking around for
something to replace it with.

I knew what I wanted. McCloskey no longer exists as a brand; they were
bought by Cabot (part of the Valpar "family"), and I found what looked
like the equivalent product, their gloss varnish:

http://www.cabotstain.com/products/p...20Top%20Co at


What I wanted was the "old school" product, their #8000. Unfortunately,
after much calling around, I discovered that I cannot buy that product
here in California; all I can get is the "modified" version, their
#18000. And even finding this was a gigantic pain in the ass.

I called every single local paint store here in the East Bay. The best I
could get was an offer to order the stuff, and even that turned out to
be impractical (their distributor couldn't get it, or I'd have to order
10 cans of it, etc., etc.)

Finally found a store in San Francisco that had the stuff, and even then
I had to convince the store staff that they *did* have it, and then they
expressed surprise, and had only one can. So I bought it, something like
$20.

The stuff turned out to be pure ****.

I used it the other day on a desktop I'm making for a client, stained
birch plywood. I put on the first coat in the morning. It looked OK, so
I went out to work and left it to dry. When I came back and checked it
about 8 hours later, the stuff was still tacky, and it had glopped and
coagulated and orange-peeled like crazy.

A little while ago while exploring what has to be the greatest Ace
Hardware store of them all around here (Pagano's in Alameda), I found a
little 1/2 pint can of some varnish under Ace's brand, simply called
"solvent-based varnish". They had nothing larger, so I bought it. Used
it on my latest refinishing project (a 100-year-old wooden view camera,
my Rochester Optical Co. "Universal"). It worked beautifully. But since
I had so little of it, I was guarding it jealously. There certainly
wasn't enough for my 26x64" desktop.

So I took the little can over to my little local Ace, Ellis Ace here in
Oakland, and asked them if they could order me a quart can. Well, they
actually had several of them in stock! (The quart was only $9, less than
half what I paid for that Cabot crap.) So I took one, and used it
yesterday on my desktop. (It's item # 276A111, Ace 16385.)

Beautiful results. Just beautiful.

This stuff does exactly what one wants it to do. It brushes on smoothly,
builds up quickly, stays open and liquid long enough to move it around
and correct any drips, thick or thin spots (you can easily pick out
hairs or other foreign objects with your bare fingers, then brush over
the spot). And best of all, after applying, it lays down as flat as an
Illinois cornfield. Blessedly, shimmeringly flat. It's an absolute joy
to work with. The exact opposite of something like "brushing lacquer"
(now there's a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one!), which
drives me nuts trying to work to get it flat without brushstrokes in the
alotted 50-millisecond time period. Or polyurethane, with its
inauthentic, plasticky-looking surface.

For those who are searching for a good wood finishing solution where a
high-gloss surface is appropriate, I highly recommend this stuff.



i'll stick with my varathane water based poly. Dries in three hours and
looks like glass. Cleans up with water. done.

s

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
willshak wrote:

$32.50 for a half pint?

For six half pints. Just under $11/quart.


more like $21.66 a quart.

"HeyBub" writes:

Nova wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:

After much arduous searching, I've found it, my Xanadu, my
Shangri-la, the sine qua non of varnish. And all the time it was
available right at my little local Ace Hardware store.

snip

Better stock up. The Ace website has no knowledge of
* 276A111
* 16385
* ACE 16385
* "Varnish" (other than varnish removers)
* "Solvent-based varnish"

So I called Ace. They couldn't find it on their web site either.

Probably the situation is:
a) Ace can't ship hazardous materials, so they don't list it on
their web site, or
b) It's a discontinued item.

See:

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com...ds=Ace%2016385

Ha! Thanks. But it looks like the 'droid who spoke to me would know the
difference...

I was looking on this site:
http://www.acehardware.com/home/inde...d=PPC:76293361

Notice the different URLs: "acehardwaresuperstore" vs. "acehardware"

Acehardware is the "official" online store for the Ace hardware
chain. Acehardwaresuperstore is the online site of an individual
franchisee. If I remember correctly, they pre-existed the launch of
the chain's official store and were granfathered in. While Ace
franchisees are relatively independent, I don't believe that new ones
are allowed to open their own online storefronts using the Ace name.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
years ago I thought I would never say this" a premium quality Wooster
"foam"
brush.

And what prompted you to use a foam brush? Considering the poor reputation
that many/most have as a finishing tool, why take the chance?


Instructions on the can. And it specified a quality foam brush.

On 7/24/2009 8:03 PM Leon spake thus:

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message [...]

years ago I thought I would never say this" a premium quality
Wooster "foam" brush.

And what prompted you to use a foam brush? Considering the poor
reputation that many/most have as a finishing tool, why take the
chance?

Instructions on the can. And it specified a quality foam brush.

Well, that's another thing that's so great about my old-fashioned
varnish: It doesn't matter what kind of brush you use.

Since the stuff flows out so nicely, one isn't required to get a 100%
Mongolian yak-hair brush for $200, and use just the right length brush
strokes.

I do use a good brush (a nice ox-hair one), but so long as the brush
doesn't shed bristles, you can use just about anything. As opposed to
brushing lacquer, which totally depends on brush quality and brushing
technique.

I'm trying to finish furniture here, not achieve Zen satori with my
brushing technique.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism