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Default Identify clothes washer part?

Maytag LSE7800.

The H & C supply lines go to the mixing valve and a single hose goes from
there to the tub. But before it connects to the tub there inserted in the
hose a plastic cube with some kind of restrictor. The cute is open at the
top. Open?

Yes, it's a 5-sided cube with no top. The water enters one side and,
apparently, flows out to the tub.

What's the name of this part?

It is not called out in these drawings:

http://snipurl.com/maytag.lse7800.diagrams

What's its purpose? It seems to be the cause of some local flooding in the
laundry room. What I thought was a cracked hose seems to be, instead, this
cube overflowing.

How does this part function and how do I determine if it needs replacing?

Thanks,
--
Al, the usual

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Default Identify clothes washer part?

Usual Suspect Inscribed thus:

Maytag LSE7800.

The H & C supply lines go to the mixing valve and a single hose goes
from there to the tub. But before it connects to the tub there
inserted in the hose a plastic cube with some kind of restrictor. The
cute is open at the top. Open?

Yes, it's a 5-sided cube with no top. The water enters one side and,
apparently, flows out to the tub.

What's the name of this part?

It is not called out in these drawings:

http://snipurl.com/maytag.lse7800.diagrams

What's its purpose? It seems to be the cause of some local flooding in
the laundry room. What I thought was a cracked hose seems to be,
instead, this cube overflowing.

How does this part function and how do I determine if it needs
replacing?

Thanks,


If its not part of the soap dispenser, then its an "air break" ! Its
designed to stop contaminated water getting back into the water supply.

If its flooding from the air break then either the incoming water supply
is too high or the is a partial blockage at the tub end. Normally it
would never need replacement. However I have seen them get cracked and
leak.

HTH

--
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Baron.
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 01:03:03 -0700, Usual Suspect
wrote:

Maytag LSE7800.

The H & C supply lines go to the mixing valve and a single hose goes from
there to the tub. But before it connects to the tub there inserted in the
hose a plastic cube with some kind of restrictor. The cute is open at the
top. Open?

Yes, it's a 5-sided cube with no top. The water enters one side and,
apparently, flows out to the tub.

What's the name of this part?

It is not called out in these drawings:

http://snipurl.com/maytag.lse7800.diagrams

What's its purpose? It seems to be the cause of some local flooding in the
laundry room. What I thought was a cracked hose seems to be, instead, this
cube overflowing.

How does this part function and how do I determine if it needs replacing?

Thanks,


You posted to a site that has 16 different diagrams, and it is not
clear which one is the one you refer to.

But, the device in question is used to prevent back flow from the tub
into the water supply and valves. The only reason I can think it leaks
is either it is cracked/broken, or the outlet tube is restricted at
the tub.
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:07:36 -0400, PeterD wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 01:03:03 -0700, Usual Suspect
wrote:

Maytag LSE7800.

The H & C supply lines go to the mixing valve and a single hose goes from
there to the tub. But before it connects to the tub there inserted in the
hose a plastic cube with some kind of restrictor. The cute is open at the
top. Open?

Yes, it's a 5-sided cube with no top. The water enters one side and,
apparently, flows out to the tub.

What's the name of this part?

It is not called out in these drawings:

http://snipurl.com/maytag.lse7800.diagrams

What's its purpose? It seems to be the cause of some local flooding in the
laundry room. What I thought was a cracked hose seems to be, instead, this
cube overflowing.

How does this part function and how do I determine if it needs replacing?

Thanks,


You posted to a site that has 16 different diagrams, and it is not
clear which one is the one you refer to.

But, the device in question is used to prevent back flow from the tub
into the water supply and valves. The only reason I can think it leaks
is either it is cracked/broken, or the outlet tube is restricted at
the tub.


I'm guessing what he's describing is the "injector sleeve bracket"
http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=2022105&SourceCode=1
Quite a few clamps and connections in the vicinity but I agree it seems
more likely that it's a downstream blockage causing some overflow.

#disclaimer - just a satisfied customer who got parts to fix a dryer
blower impeller from these guys.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

Yes, that is the part that is causing the leak.

Or it was on mine when I replaced it.

I was told that it was a method of aerating the water so that it would
"spray" into the tub, which during rinse cycle is important.
--
DaveC

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Default Identify clothes washer part?

DaveC wrote:

Yes, that is the part that is causing the leak.


Or it was on mine when I replaced it.

I was told that it was a method of aerating the water so that it would
"spray" into the tub, which during rinse cycle is important.


No Bill is correct !

"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."

That is exactly what I was going to say... Bill beat me to saying
it. ;-)

The action of the tub aerates the water.

--
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Baron.
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.

??
--
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

1 - How does it prevent backflow? Is there a checkvalve or something
built in?


No evidence that I can see. No check valve. I tend to lean toward the
definition of "aeration" as its function.

2 - On the last top loader I owned the water sprayed into the drum
near the top and the water level never reached anywhere near the
inlet. You would have had to turn the machine on it's side to get
water to flow back into the fill tube. Does the Maytag LSE7800.fill
from the bottom?


No, on this model the fill and rinse water enters from the top of the drum.
--
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

On Jul 7, 3:56*pm, DaveC wrote:
"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.

??
--
DaveC

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"There's no pressure in there to "back flow" to the water main,
even if the mix valve would allow it"

That's what I thought, but I didn't mention it because I didn't know
where the inlet was - top or bottom.

In theory, a washer that fills from bottom could backflow into the
main if there were no pressure/water in the main (think: break) and
the force of gravity was enough to force the water into the fill tube,
through the cold water pipe, and out into the street.

Now, considering your answer that this tub fills from the top, I don't
see how there could be a dirty water backflow issue.

Well, maybe...depending on exactly where the inlet was, I guess a
broken water level sensor coupled with a water main break that occured
*after* the tub filled to level of the inlet could cause a small
amount of dirty water back into the main.

I *must* be missing something and eagerly await the explanation.
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On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:56:13 -0700, DaveC wrote:

"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.


It's a siphon break.

Remember the demo where you can get water to "flow uphill" inside a
plastic tube as long as the source end of the tube stays submerged and
the discharge end is below the level of the source end?

If the municipal supply loses pressure, there are likely to be several
"discharge ends" (other households) that are open and lower than the
wash tub. If the fill line was just a hose that terminated below the
water surface then it would suck the laundry water back into the supply.
The siphon break prevents that. You'll find similar gizmos on fill lines
for, e.g., swimming pools, hot tubs, etc.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA


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Default Identify clothes washer part?

On Jul 7, 4:23*pm, Rich Webb wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:56:13 -0700, DaveC wrote:
"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.


It's a siphon break.

Remember the demo where you can get water to "flow uphill" inside a
plastic tube as long as the source end of the tube stays submerged and
the discharge end is below the level of the source end?

If the municipal supply loses pressure, there are likely to be several
"discharge ends" (other households) that are open and lower than the
wash tub. If the fill line was just a hose that terminated below the
water surface then it would suck the laundry water back into the supply.
The siphon break prevents that. You'll find similar gizmos on fill lines
for, e.g., swimming pools, hot tubs, etc.

--
Rich Webb * * Norfolk, VA


"If the fill line was just a hose that terminated below the water
surface then it would suck the laundry water back into the supply"

Right, that's what I alluded to in my previous post.

However, how many top loaders have a fill hose that terminate below
the water surface? Even if the fill sensor was broke, there wouldn't
be more than a couple of inches of water above the fill tube, which
wouldn't even be enough to reach the main.

Since the model in question fills from the top, did they include this
part to cover the rare instance where the water pressure drops to zero
*and* the tub was already filled above the inlet because the fill
sensor was broken?
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

In article .net,
DaveC wrote:

"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.


These devices are often called "vacuum breakers".

If the city water supply is interrupted, and somebody downhill from
your location turns on a tap, gravity will attempt to allow water to
flow back down your pipe, into the mains, and then into their pipes
and out through their faucet. This will generate a negative pressure
(i.e. a vacuum or suction) in the pipes in your house.

In the absense of a vaccum breaker, air pressure will force dirty
water into your house pipes through any open valve to a reservoir of
dirty water.

Outdoor irrigation systems are a primary culprit... if the faucet or
solenoid was open when the power went out, there can be
soil-contaminated water in the garden/lawn pipes leading to the
sprinklers, and this water can be sucked back into the water mains if
the mains pressure goes down through zero and a vacuum develops.

The cure for this is a vacuum breaker - a valve with access to outside
air, which will open if the water pressure drops below a certain
point.

I believe that in most areas in the U.S., a vacuum breaker is required
on any water outlet which can possibly have its output opening
immersed in standing water under any conditions.


--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
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On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:52:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 7, 4:23?pm, Rich Webb wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:56:13 -0700, DaveC wrote:
"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.


It's a siphon break.

Remember the demo where you can get water to "flow uphill" inside a
plastic tube as long as the source end of the tube stays submerged and
the discharge end is below the level of the source end?

If the municipal supply loses pressure, there are likely to be several
"discharge ends" (other households) that are open and lower than the
wash tub. If the fill line was just a hose that terminated below the
water surface then it would suck the laundry water back into the supply.
The siphon break prevents that. You'll find similar gizmos on fill lines
for, e.g., swimming pools, hot tubs, etc.


"If the fill line was just a hose that terminated below the water
surface then it would suck the laundry water back into the supply"

Right, that's what I alluded to in my previous post.

However, how many top loaders have a fill hose that terminate below
the water surface? Even if the fill sensor was broke, there wouldn't
be more than a couple of inches of water above the fill tube, which
wouldn't even be enough to reach the main.

Since the model in question fills from the top, did they include this
part to cover the rare instance where the water pressure drops to zero
*and* the tub was already filled above the inlet because the fill
sensor was broken?


Ya, but. That doesn't stop the pin-head bureaucrats from requiring the
backflow preventer in all such products -- dis-irregardlessly:
top-loading washers, front-loading washers, dish washers, star and split
washers ... no, wait...

You're expecting common sense and understanding to prevail.
You're tilting at windmills.

Jonesy
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:03:03 -0700, Usual Suspect wrote:

Maytag LSE7800.

The H & C supply lines go to the mixing valve and a single hose goes
from there to the tub. But before it connects to the tub there inserted
in the hose a plastic cube with some kind of restrictor. The cute is
open at the top. Open?

Yes, it's a 5-sided cube with no top. The water enters one side and,
apparently, flows out to the tub.

What's the name of this part?

It is not called out in these drawings:

http://snipurl.com/maytag.lse7800.diagrams

What's its purpose? It seems to be the cause of some local flooding in
the laundry room. What I thought was a cracked hose seems to be,
instead, this cube overflowing.

How does this part function and how do I determine if it needs
replacing?

Thanks,


The way to check it is to operate the machine with the washer top lifted
up. Do this very carefully!

From the information on the site you provided, it is called the water
injector assembly. It's purpose is to route water from the mixing valve
and from the recirculation pump back into the tub.

Check the in-flow path into the tub from it for deposits or restrictions
as well as be sure the machine is level. Too much powdered soap spilled
into the tub inlet will make heavy deposits that will block water flow.

If you will search for the water injector on the site provided you will
find that it is made up of about 5 different parts including gaskets
either a gasket or a hose may be damaged so you will need to inspect it
carefully for bad gaskets cracked hoses or stopped up restrictors (there
are two of them and their purpose is to keep recirculated water and fresh
separated.) or the plastic may simply have a crack that is letting water
leak out when it is under pressure.

Be sure that you check all of the hoses attached to it for cracks and
wear, they will get hard and crack in time.

It looks as if all the parts are available cheaply so replacing the
assembly in mass might be the way to go if it is really leaking.

Gnack
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On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:52:53 -0500, Gnack Nol wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:03:03 -0700, Usual Suspect wrote:

Maytag LSE7800.

The H & C supply lines go to the mixing valve and a single hose goes
from there to the tub. But before it connects to the tub there inserted
in the hose a plastic cube with some kind of restrictor. The cute is
open at the top. Open?

Yes, it's a 5-sided cube with no top. The water enters one side and,
apparently, flows out to the tub.

What's the name of this part?

It is not called out in these drawings:

http://snipurl.com/maytag.lse7800.diagrams

What's its purpose? It seems to be the cause of some local flooding in
the laundry room. What I thought was a cracked hose seems to be,
instead, this cube overflowing.

How does this part function and how do I determine if it needs
replacing?

Thanks,


The way to check it is to operate the machine with the washer top lifted
up. Do this very carefully!

From the information on the site you provided, it is called the water
injector assembly. It's purpose is to route water from the mixing valve
and from the recirculation pump back into the tub.

Check the in-flow path into the tub from it for deposits or restrictions
as well as be sure the machine is level. Too much powdered soap spilled
into the tub inlet will make heavy deposits that will block water flow.

If you will search for the water injector on the site provided you will
find that it is made up of about 5 different parts including gaskets
either a gasket or a hose may be damaged so you will need to inspect it
carefully for bad gaskets cracked hoses or stopped up restrictors (there
are two of them and their purpose is to keep recirculated water and fresh
separated.) or the plastic may simply have a crack that is letting water
leak out when it is under pressure.

Be sure that you check all of the hoses attached to it for cracks and
wear, they will get hard and crack in time.

It looks as if all the parts are available cheaply so replacing the
assembly in mass might be the way to go if it is really leaking.

Gnack


Well heck I got my hoses crossed, It is an areator assembly and probably
has a bad hose going to the tub or is cracked. Easily checked by lifting
the washer top and settin the machine to fill. If it just overflows the
suspect the hose from it to the tub or the fitting to be damaged.

Sorry I misread the diagrams before.

Gnack



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Default Identify clothes washer part?

On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:56:13 -0700, DaveC wrote:

"If the water pressure drops to zero while filling the tub, dirty water
could get drawn back into the city water main."


It still doesn't make sense. If main pressure drops to zero, the air break
has no water pressure -- it opens into the tub. There's no pressure in there
to "back flow" to the water main, even if the mix valve would allow it.

??


Yes it does, when mains pressure drops to zero two things are possible
without the air brake:

1. Mains pressure actually turns negative (very common, just takes one
opening downstream to do this...)

2. Even if pressure is truely zero, contamination will backflow into
the pipe, and at a surprising rate. Technically it is possible even
with full pressure (this is caused by boundary layer effect where the
water at the side of the pipe or conduit is not moving.) A pipe run
underwater, with a pin hole, will draw contamination into the water
supply. If that 'underwater' water source is heavily contaminated, the
amount of contamination can be significant.
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Default Identify clothes washer part?

Yes it does, when mains pressure drops to zero two things are possible
without the air brake:

1. Mains pressure actually turns negative (very common, just takes one
opening downstream to do this...)


OK, the mechanism for contamination exists.

2. Even if pressure is truely zero, contamination will backflow into
the pipe, and at a surprising rate. Technically it is possible even
with full pressure (this is caused by boundary layer effect where the
water at the side of the pipe or conduit is not moving.) A pipe run
underwater, with a pin hole, will draw contamination into the water
supply. If that 'underwater' water source is heavily contaminated, the
amount of contamination can be significant.


BUT THERE'S **NO** "DIRTY" WATER IN CONTACT WITH THE FILL HOSE!! THE WATER IS
10" BELOW THE HOSE!! HOW IS THE WATER SUPPOSED TO EVEN MAKE THE TRIP UP TO
THE HOSE AND THEN TO THE MIX VALVE, ANTIGRAVITY?!
--
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BUT THERE'S **NO** "DIRTY" WATER IN CONTACT WITH THE FILL HOSE!! THE WATER IS
10" BELOW THE HOSE!! HOW IS THE WATER SUPPOSED TO EVEN MAKE THE TRIP UP TO
THE HOSE AND THEN TO THE MIX VALVE, ANTIGRAVITY?!


Granted that this can't occur during normal operation. But... is it
physically possible, at all, under *any* sort of fault condition, for
the dirty water to rise up as high as the opening of the fill hose?
Say, if the fill-level sensor happened to malfunction, and the
controller left the fill/mix valve open for so long that the washer
filled up to the very top of the barrel and began slopping over on the
floor... would this be high enough to allow back-suction?

My guess is that the codes are written in such a way as to require a
vacuum-breaker failsafe unless it's physically impossible for backflow
to occur, even under extremely improbable multiple-fault conditions.

A washer manufacturer might have only two alternatives to comply with
the law: either go through a bothersome, well-documented physical
analysis process to demonstrate that a vacuum breaker wasn't ever
going to be needed, or just go ahead and install one. By doing the
latter they'd eliminate any possible conflict with some jurisdiction,
somewhere, which has a code that absolutely requires a vacuum breaker
on any clothes washer.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
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A washer manufacturer might have only two alternatives to comply with
the law: either go through a bothersome, well-documented physical
analysis process to demonstrate that a vacuum breaker wasn't ever
going to be needed, or just go ahead and install one. By doing the
latter they'd eliminate any possible conflict with some jurisdiction,
somewhere, which has a code that absolutely requires a vacuum breaker
on any clothes washer.


A thorough, practical analysis of why there's a vacuum break on every washer,
whether needed -- or not, and whether it serves a real purpose (other than
employing repair personnel when it leaks) -- or not.

Thanks!
--
John English

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On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:38:39 -0700, DaveC wrote:

Yes it does, when mains pressure drops to zero two things are possible
without the air brake:

1. Mains pressure actually turns negative (very common, just takes one
opening downstream to do this...)


OK, the mechanism for contamination exists.

2. Even if pressure is truely zero, contamination will backflow into
the pipe, and at a surprising rate. Technically it is possible even
with full pressure (this is caused by boundary layer effect where the
water at the side of the pipe or conduit is not moving.) A pipe run
underwater, with a pin hole, will draw contamination into the water
supply. If that 'underwater' water source is heavily contaminated, the
amount of contamination can be significant.


BUT THERE'S **NO** "DIRTY" WATER IN CONTACT WITH THE FILL HOSE!!


In the event of malfunction, there easily could be. So they must plan
ahead for that possibility.

THE WATER IS
10" BELOW THE HOSE!! HOW IS THE WATER SUPPOSED TO EVEN MAKE THE TRIP UP TO
THE HOSE AND THEN TO THE MIX VALVE, ANTIGRAVITY?!


Your keyboard keycaps key is stuck, you should check on that.
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