In article , Pat wrote:
On May 10, 11:53=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, Pat wrote:



On May 9, 11:56=3DA0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
ups=3D
..com, Pat wrote:

If you find one that was only driven to church by a little old lady,
then you find a car that hasn't really been stressed. =3DA0The first =
time
to take it out on the highway at 70, you wipe out at least one ball
joint, probably a tie rod end, and the struts. =3DA0They are all orig=
inal
and fine for around town but will break when they hit the highways.
Been there. =3DA0Done that. =3DA0Have a tee shirt to prove it.

Utter nonsense.

I had it happen a couple of times.

Over the course of 5 or 6 years, you end up replacing stuff -- ball
joints, tie rod ends, etc. =A0The little old lady didn't do that because
she never went anywhere. =A0Then you crank it up to 75 mph on roads like
this and the pot holes knock it all to heck. =A0You're driving with 5 or
6 year old ball joints, and tie rod ends and shocks. =A0Something (and
probably a few things) are going to go. =A0It is inevitable.

Right, but the problem has nothing to do with "not having been stressed",=
and
*everything* to do with not having been *lubricated* for five years becau=
se
the car was only driven ten or twenty miles a week and the owner thought =
it
wasn't needed. The idea that ball joints and tie rods need to be "stresse=
d" to
keep them from breaking is complete and utter nonsense. You clearly don't
understand what you're talking about.

Most of the parts don't need to be lubricated -- in fact I don't think
any OEM ball joints have a place to lube them -- at least not any I
have owned in the last 20 years.

As for stress, you must not have the reading comprehension to
understand what I meant to I'm make it nice and simple for you. If
you take a suspension piece -- almost any piece -- and don't do
anything with it, it will last forever. If you don't hit any bumps or
take any hard turns or accelerate or whatever, thing last a long
time. Nothing gets replaced because nothing "breaks". Then you take
that same car and convert it over to highway driving, things gets
stressed. The joints get pounded. All of the parts that were never
stressed and were working fine for the little old lady, don't stand up
to the new levels of stress and something is bound to give -- often 3
or 4 things. The forces of 20 mph around town on good roads is VERY
different than the forces hitting the pot holes at 70 mph on the
expressway.

Oh, give it a rest. What planet do you live on, where expressways are full of
potholes, and city streets aren't?


Before I bought my last two cars, I took them to my mechanic and had
them gone over. Both passed. Within two months, both needed front-
end repairs. Thing that hold together at 20 mph don't necessarily do
so at 70 mph.

Sounds to me like you need to drive more carefully, and/or take better care of
your cars.

It's not because parts need to be stressed or whatever you said.

That isn't what I said -- that's what *you* said.

On May 11, 2:44*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

Where I live, there are HUGE price advantages to buying used. *I
bought a 5-year old, low mileage van for about 20% of what a new van
would cost. *I am now 2 years into it and have just now had must first
repair that wasn't "regular maintenance".

***********************************************

At 5 years old, if it had 20,000 miles or less it may be a good deal, but
most will have over 80,000 miles and a 20% discount is not a good deal. *The
first owner had the warranty and many trouble free miles that the second
owner will not see.

I didn't get a 20% discount. I got an 80% discount. Van had about
65,000 miles. Two years later it now has twice that and just made
first repair to it. The cost to purchase it is about $0.08 per mile,
to date, and dropping. The cost per month, to date, is about $200 and
dropping. Gas cost me something like $0.13 per mile. Insurance costs
about $0.2 per mile. All in all, it cost about $.30 to $.35 per mile.

on 5/9/2009 12:50 PM (ET) Caesar Romano wrote the following:
On Sat, 09 May 2009 08:40:58 -0400, willshak
wrote Re Automobiles:


on 5/9/2009 8:05 AM (ET) Caesar Romano wrote the following:

On Sat, 09 May 2009 07:00:42 -0400, willshak
wrote Re Automobiles:




I filter the old oil then pour it in my fuel oil tank.


How do you do the filtering? What kind of filter and how do you pump
the oil through the filter?


Cloth. Old T shirt, etc. I use a large funnel with the cloth lining the
inside. Stick the funnel into a plastic fuel tank. Dump the oil into the
funnel and let the oil drain through the cloth lined funnel. It will
slowly drain in the tank and will take some time. Refill the funnel as
necessary.


Ok, the low-tech approach.

I have a neighbor who has been experimenting with recycling used motor
oil through a standard home water filter. The oil comes out as clear
looking as new motor oil. Then he mixes is with diesel fuel for his
tractor. I didn't think to ask him how he pumps it through the filter.
I'll have to do that the next time I see him.


Perhaps an air compressor to push the oil through the filter.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Molly Brown" wrote in message
...
Up until the sixties and seventies on the weekends I used to see
people in their driveways and garages repairing or doing maintenance
on their cars. I hardly ever see that anymore. It used to be that if
you wanted to have your car repaired you could just go to any repair
shop. Today you have to consider what the repair involves. If it’s
something complicated you need to take it to the dealer and pay the
big bucks or same time next year you’re probably going to have the
same problem. To know why this is just lift up the hood of a car from
that era and then do the same thing to an automobile today.


I remember car maintenance in the 50's and 60's
Change oil every 3000,
points, condenser, plugs, air filter every 5000 6000 miles...

Thank God that's gone.
No distributor to fuss with.
My book sez "change plugs at 100K miles",
Change oil when the light comes on ( usually 6000 mi. )
And somehow, they've positioned the air intake
so my air filter doesn't really get dirty !
New paints mean wax once a year... ( if that )

It's worth the $20+ for a shop to change the oil & filter.
Too many home mechanics used to dump it in the ground,
or in the storm sewers......

About the only job left for me is filling the gas tank,
and the windshield washer reservoir.....
( and since they've sized it up to a gallon,
even that is a rare job.)

On Sun, 10 May 2009 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT), Pat
wrote:

On May 10, 11:53Â*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Pat wrote:



On May 9, 11:56=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, Pat wrote:

If you find one that was only driven to church by a little old lady,
then you find a car that hasn't really been stressed. =A0The first time
to take it out on the highway at 70, you wipe out at least one ball
joint, probably a tie rod end, and the struts. =A0They are all original
and fine for around town but will break when they hit the highways.
Been there. =A0Done that. =A0Have a tee shirt to prove it.

Utter nonsense.

I had it happen a couple of times.

Over the course of 5 or 6 years, you end up replacing stuff -- ball
joints, tie rod ends, etc. Â*The little old lady didn't do that because
she never went anywhere. Â*Then you crank it up to 75 mph on roads like
this and the pot holes knock it all to heck. Â*You're driving with 5 or
6 year old ball joints, and tie rod ends and shocks. Â*Something (and
probably a few things) are going to go. Â*It is inevitable.

Right, but the problem has nothing to do with "not having been stressed", and
*everything* to do with not having been *lubricated* for five years because
the car was only driven ten or twenty miles a week and the owner thought it
wasn't needed. The idea that ball joints and tie rods need to be "stressed" to
keep them from breaking is complete and utter nonsense. You clearly don't
understand what you're talking about.

Most of the parts don't need to be lubricated -- in fact I don't think
any OEM ball joints have a place to lube them -- at least not any I
have owned in the last 20 years.

As for stress, you must not have the reading comprehension to
understand what I meant to I'm make it nice and simple for you. If
you take a suspension piece -- almost any piece -- and don't do
anything with it, it will last forever. If you don't hit any bumps or
take any hard turns or accelerate or whatever, thing last a long
time. Nothing gets replaced because nothing "breaks". Then you take
that same car and convert it over to highway driving, things gets
stressed. The joints get pounded. All of the parts that were never
stressed and were working fine for the little old lady, don't stand up
to the new levels of stress and something is bound to give -- often 3
or 4 things. The forces of 20 mph around town on good roads is VERY
different than the forces hitting the pot holes at 70 mph on the
expressway.

Before I bought my last two cars, I took them to my mechanic and had
them gone over. Both passed. Within two months, both needed front-
end repairs. Thing that hold together at 20 mph don't necessarily do
so at 70 mph.

It's not because parts need to be stressed or whatever you said. It
is because the parts weren't stressed and therefore held together --
but when the old parts are stressed, they broke.


If the car has 15000 miles on it over 8 years with a little old lady
or 1 year on the highway, what's the difference as far as wear goes?
Which one will fail first????

According to your theory the little old lady's car would fail first.

I say you are wrong.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 02:44:13 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Pat" wrote in message
Where I live, there are HUGE price advantages to buying used. I
bought a 5-year old, low mileage van for about 20% of what a new van
would cost. I am now 2 years into it and have just now had must first
repair that wasn't "regular maintenance".

***********************************************

At 5 years old, if it had 20,000 miles or less it may be a good deal, but
most will have over 80,000 miles and a 20% discount is not a good deal. The
first owner had the warranty and many trouble free miles that the second
owner will not see.

I buy 6 year old cars with 60,000 miles (100,000km) for $6000.
Last one cost the original owner $38,000 to drive off the lot.
I drove it 12 years, put MABEE $2000 into it in repairs, and sold it
for $1700.

Wife's current car was purchased at 7 years of age for $5500. Whe've
had it now for 6 years. I've put about $1500 into it for repairs,
beyond normal maintenance.
Original cost off the lot was about $24,000 Canadian. (V6, leather,
sun-roof, all-speed traction control,CD, 4 wheel disk brakes, etc)

"Pat" wrote in message

I didn't get a 20% discount. I got an 80% discount. Van had about
65,000 miles. Two years later it now has twice that and just made
first repair to it.

************************************

OK, somehow the 20% just stuck in the brain. Big difference.

On May 11, 9:32*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2009 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT), Pat



wrote:
On May 10, 11:53*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Pat wrote:

On May 9, 11:56=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, Pat wrote:

If you find one that was only driven to church by a little old lady,
then you find a car that hasn't really been stressed. =A0The first time
to take it out on the highway at 70, you wipe out at least one ball
joint, probably a tie rod end, and the struts. =A0They are all original
and fine for around town but will break when they hit the highways..
Been there. =A0Done that. =A0Have a tee shirt to prove it.

Utter nonsense.

I had it happen a couple of times.

Over the course of 5 or 6 years, you end up replacing stuff -- ball
joints, tie rod ends, etc. *The little old lady didn't do that because
she never went anywhere. *Then you crank it up to 75 mph on roads like
this and the pot holes knock it all to heck. *You're driving with 5 or
6 year old ball joints, and tie rod ends and shocks. *Something (and
probably a few things) are going to go. *It is inevitable.

Right, but the problem has nothing to do with "not having been stressed", and
*everything* to do with not having been *lubricated* for five years because
the car was only driven ten or twenty miles a week and the owner thought it
wasn't needed. The idea that ball joints and tie rods need to be "stressed" to
keep them from breaking is complete and utter nonsense. You clearly don't
understand what you're talking about.

Most of the parts don't need to be lubricated -- in fact I don't think
any OEM ball joints have a place to lube them -- at least not any I
have owned in the last 20 years.

As for stress, you must not have the reading comprehension to
understand what I meant to I'm make it nice and simple for you. *If
you take a suspension piece -- almost any piece -- and don't do
anything with it, it will last forever. *If you don't hit any bumps or
take any hard turns or accelerate or whatever, thing last a long
time. *Nothing gets replaced because nothing "breaks". *Then you take
that same car and convert it over to highway driving, things gets
stressed. *The joints get pounded. *All of the parts that were never
stressed and were working fine for the little old lady, don't stand up
to the new levels of stress and something is bound to give -- often 3
or 4 things. *The forces of 20 mph around town on good roads is VERY
different than the forces hitting the pot holes at 70 mph on the
expressway.

Before I bought my last two cars, I took them to my mechanic and had
them gone over. *Both passed. *Within two months, both needed front-
end repairs. *Thing that hold together at 20 mph don't necessarily do
so at 70 mph.

It's not because parts need to be stressed or whatever you said. *It
is because the parts weren't stressed and therefore held together --
but when the old parts are stressed, they broke.

If the car has 15000 miles on it over 8 years with a little old lady
or 1 year on the highway, what's the difference as far as wear goes?
Which one will fail first????

According to your theory the little old lady's car would fail first.

I say you are wrong.

That's not what I said at all. If you keep a car for 8 years, it
might run fine forever if you only put 2000 easy miles per year on
it. But if you take the same car at 15,000 miles and suddenly put it
on the highway (and around here, highways are very rough), all of the
rubber parts that were perfectly fine before, are going to deteriorate
fast. Other pieces are also going to wear out quickly because they
are 8 years old and never replaced. Around here, tie rod ends and
ball joints are routine maintenance items, not big repairs, so if they
haven't been done in 8 years, you'll need to do them when you hit the
highway.

On May 11, 9:55*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

I didn't get a 20% discount. *I got an 80% discount. *Van had about
65,000 miles. *Two years later it now has twice that and just made
first repair to it.

************************************

OK, somehow the 20% just stuck in the brain. *Big difference.

Yes, a 20% discount would be NBD. An 80% discount is worth talking
about.

Pat wrote:
On May 11, 9:32 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2009 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT), Pat



wrote:
On May 10, 11:53 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Pat wrote:
On May 9, 11:56=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, Pat wrote:
If you find one that was only driven to church by a little old lady,
then you find a car that hasn't really been stressed. =A0The first time
to take it out on the highway at 70, you wipe out at least one ball
joint, probably a tie rod end, and the struts. =A0They are all original
and fine for around town but will break when they hit the highways.
Been there. =A0Done that. =A0Have a tee shirt to prove it.
Utter nonsense.
I had it happen a couple of times.
Over the course of 5 or 6 years, you end up replacing stuff -- ball
joints, tie rod ends, etc. The little old lady didn't do that because
she never went anywhere. Then you crank it up to 75 mph on roads like
this and the pot holes knock it all to heck. You're driving with 5 or
6 year old ball joints, and tie rod ends and shocks. Something (and
probably a few things) are going to go. It is inevitable.
Right, but the problem has nothing to do with "not having been stressed", and
*everything* to do with not having been *lubricated* for five years because
the car was only driven ten or twenty miles a week and the owner thought it
wasn't needed. The idea that ball joints and tie rods need to be "stressed" to
keep them from breaking is complete and utter nonsense. You clearly don't
understand what you're talking about.
Most of the parts don't need to be lubricated -- in fact I don't think
any OEM ball joints have a place to lube them -- at least not any I
have owned in the last 20 years.
As for stress, you must not have the reading comprehension to
understand what I meant to I'm make it nice and simple for you. If
you take a suspension piece -- almost any piece -- and don't do
anything with it, it will last forever. If you don't hit any bumps or
take any hard turns or accelerate or whatever, thing last a long
time. Nothing gets replaced because nothing "breaks". Then you take
that same car and convert it over to highway driving, things gets
stressed. The joints get pounded. All of the parts that were never
stressed and were working fine for the little old lady, don't stand up
to the new levels of stress and something is bound to give -- often 3
or 4 things. The forces of 20 mph around town on good roads is VERY
different than the forces hitting the pot holes at 70 mph on the
expressway.
Before I bought my last two cars, I took them to my mechanic and had
them gone over. Both passed. Within two months, both needed front-
end repairs. Thing that hold together at 20 mph don't necessarily do
so at 70 mph.
It's not because parts need to be stressed or whatever you said. It
is because the parts weren't stressed and therefore held together --
but when the old parts are stressed, they broke.
If the car has 15000 miles on it over 8 years with a little old lady
or 1 year on the highway, what's the difference as far as wear goes?
Which one will fail first????

According to your theory the little old lady's car would fail first.

I say you are wrong.

That's not what I said at all. If you keep a car for 8 years, it
might run fine forever if you only put 2000 easy miles per year on
it. But if you take the same car at 15,000 miles and suddenly put it
on the highway (and around here, highways are very rough), all of the
rubber parts that were perfectly fine before, are going to deteriorate
fast. Other pieces are also going to wear out quickly because they
are 8 years old and never replaced. Around here, tie rod ends and
ball joints are routine maintenance items, not big repairs, so if they
haven't been done in 8 years, you'll need to do them when you hit the
highway.

that whole line of thinking is a crock. You, my son, are sorely mistaken.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 21:56:36 -0700 (PDT), Pat
wrote:

On May 11, 9:32Â*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2009 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT), Pat



wrote:
On May 10, 11:53Â*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Pat wrote:

On May 9, 11:56=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, Pat wrote:

If you find one that was only driven to church by a little old lady,
then you find a car that hasn't really been stressed. =A0The first time
to take it out on the highway at 70, you wipe out at least one ball
joint, probably a tie rod end, and the struts. =A0They are all original
and fine for around town but will break when they hit the highways.
Been there. =A0Done that. =A0Have a tee shirt to prove it.

Utter nonsense.

I had it happen a couple of times.

Over the course of 5 or 6 years, you end up replacing stuff -- ball
joints, tie rod ends, etc. Â*The little old lady didn't do that because
she never went anywhere. Â*Then you crank it up to 75 mph on roads like
this and the pot holes knock it all to heck. Â*You're driving with 5 or
6 year old ball joints, and tie rod ends and shocks. Â*Something (and
probably a few things) are going to go. Â*It is inevitable.

Right, but the problem has nothing to do with "not having been stressed", and
*everything* to do with not having been *lubricated* for five years because
the car was only driven ten or twenty miles a week and the owner thought it
wasn't needed. The idea that ball joints and tie rods need to be "stressed" to
keep them from breaking is complete and utter nonsense. You clearly don't
understand what you're talking about.

Most of the parts don't need to be lubricated -- in fact I don't think
any OEM ball joints have a place to lube them -- at least not any I
have owned in the last 20 years.

As for stress, you must not have the reading comprehension to
understand what I meant to I'm make it nice and simple for you. Â*If
you take a suspension piece -- almost any piece -- and don't do
anything with it, it will last forever. Â*If you don't hit any bumps or
take any hard turns or accelerate or whatever, thing last a long
time. Â*Nothing gets replaced because nothing "breaks". Â*Then you take
that same car and convert it over to highway driving, things gets
stressed. Â*The joints get pounded. Â*All of the parts that were never
stressed and were working fine for the little old lady, don't stand up
to the new levels of stress and something is bound to give -- often 3
or 4 things. Â*The forces of 20 mph around town on good roads is VERY
different than the forces hitting the pot holes at 70 mph on the
expressway.

Before I bought my last two cars, I took them to my mechanic and had
them gone over. Â*Both passed. Â*Within two months, both needed front-
end repairs. Â*Thing that hold together at 20 mph don't necessarily do
so at 70 mph.

It's not because parts need to be stressed or whatever you said. Â*It
is because the parts weren't stressed and therefore held together --
but when the old parts are stressed, they broke.

If the car has 15000 miles on it over 8 years with a little old lady
or 1 year on the highway, what's the difference as far as wear goes?
Which one will fail first????

According to your theory the little old lady's car would fail first.

I say you are wrong.

That's not what I said at all. If you keep a car for 8 years, it
might run fine forever if you only put 2000 easy miles per year on
it. But if you take the same car at 15,000 miles and suddenly put it
on the highway (and around here, highways are very rough), all of the
rubber parts that were perfectly fine before, are going to deteriorate
fast. Other pieces are also going to wear out quickly because they
are 8 years old and never replaced. Around here, tie rod ends and
ball joints are routine maintenance items, not big repairs, so if they
haven't been done in 8 years, you'll need to do them when you hit the
highway.


Not my experience, if the car has been maintained.
At least with Toyotas.
The rubber parts on Toyotas do not seem to be age sensitive at all.
It's the piles of pounding that do things in.

Years ago it used to be if an engine was babied for too long, then
taken out on the highway and driven hard, something was likely to fail
- PARTICULARLY if the oil was changed only according to miles (might
get a change every 2 years) Not an issue on todays cars with today's
oils - and the fact that engines are basically "broken in" when
shipped.

I've been a mechanic since 1969.