There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.

"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050312065016807-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200 amp
breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that whenever
the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began working.
When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off too. I don't
have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker with a breaker from
another circuit that I know was working, and it didn't help at all. The
panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.


You have lost one of the two hot legs coming in. The problem could be in the
main breaker, but more than likely it's outside. Contact your electric
utility company, and in the mean time turn off all 240 volt circuits

On May 3, 10:06*am, crabshell wrote:
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. * I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. *After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. * When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. * I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. *The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.



Do you have an electric dryer? Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.

Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" or "the problem must be on your side of the
meter" comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

"fftt" wrote in message
...
On May 3, 10:06 am, crabshell wrote:
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.



Do you have an electric dryer? Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.


Just as a comon sense question, how would all the dead circuits being on the
same leg, indicate an open neutral? especially considering that both legs
use the same neutral.






Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" or "the problem must be on your side of the
meter" comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

On 2009-05-03 12:19:02 -0500, "RBM" said:


"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050312065016807-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200 amp
breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that whenever
the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began working.
When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off too. I don't
have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker with a breaker from
another circuit that I know was working, and it didn't help at all. The
panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.


You have lost one of the two hot legs coming in. The problem could be in the
main breaker, but more than likely it's outside. Contact your electric
utility company, and in the mean time turn off all 240 volt circuits

Thta's what an electrician I called this morning suggested. I'm
waiting for the power company to get back to me. Thanks!

"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050313243975249-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
On 2009-05-03 12:19:02 -0500, "RBM" said:


"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050312065016807-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200 amp
breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that whenever
the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began working.
When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off too. I
don't
have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker with a breaker
from
another circuit that I know was working, and it didn't help at all. The
panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.


You have lost one of the two hot legs coming in. The problem could be in
the
main breaker, but more than likely it's outside. Contact your electric
utility company, and in the mean time turn off all 240 volt circuits

Thta's what an electrician I called this morning suggested. I'm waiting
for the power company to get back to me. Thanks!

It's not so much a matter of what the problem is, but rather, where it is.
Hopefully it's not a bad main breaker, which would be your responsibility.
Usually these open circuits happen in more hostile environments like outdoor
meter boxes, and outside overhead connections, either at the pole or house.

On Sun, 3 May 2009 13:41:13 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"fftt" wrote in message
...
On May 3, 10:06 am, crabshell wrote:
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.



Do you have an electric dryer? Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.


Just as a comon sense question, how would all the dead circuits being on the
same leg, indicate an open neutral? especially considering that both legs
use the same neutral.






Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" or "the problem must be on your side of the
meter" comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

Most likely a blown fuse or "drop" at the transformer. - disconnects
one "live". Putting a heavy 240 load online allowa backfeed to the
dead leg.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 May 2009 13:41:13 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"fftt" wrote in message
...
On May 3, 10:06 am, crabshell wrote:
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.



Do you have an electric dryer? Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.


Just as a comon sense question, how would all the dead circuits being on
the
same leg, indicate an open neutral? especially considering that both legs
use the same neutral.






Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" or "the problem must be on your side of the
meter" comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

Most likely a blown fuse or "drop" at the transformer. - disconnects
one "live". Putting a heavy 240 load online allowa backfeed to the
dead leg.

Does anyone know of a pole transformer with separate fuses for the two
secondary hot legs? All I am aware of fuse the primary only.

Don Young

On May 3, 10:05�pm, "Don Young" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Sun, 3 May 2009 13:41:13 -0400, "RBM" wrote:

"fftt" wrote in message
....
On May 3, 10:06 am, crabshell wrote:
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.

Do you have an electric dryer? � Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.

Just as a comon sense question, how would all the dead circuits being on
the
same leg, indicate an open neutral? especially considering that both legs
use the same neutral.

Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. � Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) � where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. �I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" �or �"the problem must be on your side of the
meter" �comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. � My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, �admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

Most likely a blown fuse or "drop" at the transformer. - disconnects
one "live". Putting a heavy 240 load online allowa backfeed to the
dead leg.

Does anyone know of a pole transformer with separate fuses for the two
secondary hot legs? All I am aware of fuse the primary only.

Don Young- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

a pole transformer failed one leg many years ago here. after a big
storm

I had never seen a one leg out till that day so yes it can happen

On 2009-05-03 13:34:50 -0500, "RBM" said:


"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050313243975249-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
On 2009-05-03 12:19:02 -0500, "RBM" said:


"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050312065016807-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200 amp
breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that whenever
the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began working.
When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off too. I
don't
have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker with a breaker
from
another circuit that I know was working, and it didn't help at all. The
panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.


You have lost one of the two hot legs coming in. The problem could be in
the
main breaker, but more than likely it's outside. Contact your electric
utility company, and in the mean time turn off all 240 volt circuits

Thta's what an electrician I called this morning suggested. I'm waiting
for the power company to get back to me. Thanks!

It's not so much a matter of what the problem is, but rather, where it is.
Hopefully it's not a bad main breaker, which would be your responsibility.
Usually these open circuits happen in more hostile environments like outdoor
meter boxes, and outside overhead connections, either at the pole or house.

Crazy story... it turned out to be an improperly seated meter cover (at
least I assume thats what the glass part is called) that must have
been jostled by a strike or thunder. The previous owner built a roof
over the porch and actually built it around the meter. The meter is
partially embedded in the roof, so when I had my panel replaced 2 years
ago, the electrician didn't reset the meter correctly due to the tight
confines. The service provider (Oncor) didn't want to mess with it,
telling me it was illegal, but he relented. Meanwhile I assume when I
go to sell the house, the inspector might say something (even though
ours did not). So now the meter cover is correctly attached, but he
couldnt get the metal strap around it so its just a friction fit.
How hard it it to relocate a meter?

On May 3, 10:41*am, "RBM" wrote:
"fftt" wrote in message

...
On May 3, 10:06 am, crabshell wrote:

There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.

Do you have an electric dryer? * Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.

Just as a comon sense question, how would all the dead circuits being on the
same leg, indicate an open neutral? especially considering that both legs
use the same neutral.

Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. * Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) * where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. *I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" *or *"the problem must be on your side of the
meter" *comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. * My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, *admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

RBM-

Good point......I didn;t think that comment through carefully enough.

cheers
Bob

crabshell wrote:
(snip)
Crazy story... it turned out to be an improperly seated meter cover (at
least I assume thats what the glass part is called) that must have
been jostled by a strike or thunder. The previous owner built a roof
over the porch and actually built it around the meter. The meter is
partially embedded in the roof, so when I had my panel replaced 2 years
ago, the electrician didn't reset the meter correctly due to the tight
confines. The service provider (Oncor) didn't want to mess with it,
telling me it was illegal, but he relented. Meanwhile I assume when I
go to sell the house, the inspector might say something (even though
ours did not). So now the meter cover is correctly attached, but he
couldnt get the metal strap around it so its just a friction fit.
How hard it it to relocate a meter?


????
Having trouble picturing this- the roof interferes with the meter base
itself? How high off the ground is your meter? Sounds like your Previous
Owner was an even bigger idiot than mine was. Can you post a picture
someplace, and put a link back here? Aerial service, or buried? And if
aerial, is the conduit through the roof to the weather head trapped as
well? If it is actually the end wall of an enclosed porch causing the
problem, I'd be inclined to to move the wall, and add a little jog or
something, assuming it is the posts on the outside corners of the porch
that actually carry the weight.

Surprised your service provider let it slide, even temporarily. The
electrician that replaced the panel should have insisted on a cure then-
this can't be code-compliant. 'Friction fit' does not cut it for that
application. Not to mention, emergency/power company personnel need to
be able to find and pull the meter in a hurry, like when the house is on
fire. Around here, there is usually not a main disconnect at the meter base.

--
aem sends...

"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050323084816807-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
On 2009-05-03 13:34:50 -0500, "RBM" said:


"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050313243975249-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
On 2009-05-03 12:19:02 -0500, "RBM" said:


"crabshell" wrote in message
news:2009050312065016807-crabshell@nottoohotmalecom...
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after
an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp
breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever
the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began working.
When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off too. I
don't
have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker with a breaker
from
another circuit that I know was working, and it didn't help at all.
The
panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.


You have lost one of the two hot legs coming in. The problem could be
in
the
main breaker, but more than likely it's outside. Contact your electric
utility company, and in the mean time turn off all 240 volt circuits

Thta's what an electrician I called this morning suggested. I'm waiting
for the power company to get back to me. Thanks!

It's not so much a matter of what the problem is, but rather, where it
is.
Hopefully it's not a bad main breaker, which would be your
responsibility.
Usually these open circuits happen in more hostile environments like
outdoor
meter boxes, and outside overhead connections, either at the pole or
house.

Crazy story... it turned out to be an improperly seated meter cover (at
least I assume that's what the glass part is called) that must have been
jostled by a strike or thunder. The previous owner built a roof over the
porch and actually built it around the meter. The meter is partially
embedded in the roof, so when I had my panel replaced 2 years ago, the
electrician didn't reset the meter correctly due to the tight confines.
The service provider (Oncor) didn't want to mess with it, telling me it
was illegal, but he relented. Meanwhile I assume when I go to sell the
house, the inspector might say something (even though ours did not). So
now the meter cover is correctly attached, but he couldn't get the metal
strap around it so it's just a friction fit. How hard it it to relocate a
meter?



Very difficult to answer. In my area I deal with three electric utilities,
and each uses their own metering equipment and have their own sets of rules.
In a simple situation you could just lower the meter box and replace the
service entrance cable feeding into it, provided that the rest of the
existing installation meets all current codes. I'd call a local electrician,
a different one than you used previously and ask

On Sun, 3 May 2009 21:05:39 -0500, "Don Young"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 3 May 2009 13:41:13 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"fftt" wrote in message
...
On May 3, 10:06 am, crabshell wrote:
There were several dead curcuits around the house this morning after an
electrical storm. I reset all the breakers, including the main 200
amp breaker. After messing around with the breakers I noticed that
whenever the AC blower comes on, the other circuits wake up and began
working. When I turn the AC breaker off, the other circuits turn off
too. I don't have a new breaker handy so I switched the AC breaker
with a breaker from another circuit that I know was working, and it
didn't help at all. The panel is a 2 years old Seimans.

Thnaks for any advice.



Do you have an electric dryer? Do the same "experiment" with the
dryer.

Are all the "dead" circuits on the same "leg"....all odd or all even
numbered breakers?
From the symptoms you describe, sounds like you've lost the neutral or
its damaged / high resistance.


Just as a comon sense question, how would all the dead circuits being on
the
same leg, indicate an open neutral? especially considering that both legs
use the same neutral.






Most likely the problem is on the power company's side. Call the
power company out & have them do a proper neutral test, not just with
a voltmeter but where they pull the meter and load test each power leg
and neutral.

I had a similar but must less severe situation that existed for years
(like 8 years) where the living room lights would brighten when the
electric dyer was run. I had Edison out a couple times & an
electrician as well......all visits resulted in "no problem found,
everything is ok" or "the problem must be on your side of the
meter" comments.

Finally after storm & a power outage, the neutral deteriorated enough
to make the problem more acute. My neighbor hounded Edison enough to
where they finally found the issue, admitted it was on their side of
the meter & fixed it.

cheers
Bob

Most likely a blown fuse or "drop" at the transformer. - disconnects
one "live". Putting a heavy 240 load online allowa backfeed to the
dead leg.

Does anyone know of a pole transformer with separate fuses for the two
secondary hot legs? All I am aware of fuse the primary only.

Don Young

Virtually all 3 pase around here are secondary fused, as well as many
single phase 220 "pole pigs"

Protects the transformer in case of the service conductors shorting
(on the poles in a storm, or underground)