Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

Ted Shoemaker

"Ted Shoemaker" wrote in message
...
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

Ted Shoemaker

Not sure if this is your problem but that is a common complaint of water
softeners. But I'd have the installer come back out and check the o-rings
and adjustments. I wouldn't DIY.

Does the water taste salty?

od

In article , Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Sounds like your water is waaaaaaay softer than you want it -- and softer than
it needs to be. Every water softener I've ever seen has some mechanism for
adjusting the amount of salt used per cycle (and hence the softness of the
water).

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Undoubtedly there is an adjustment. The owner's manual will tell you how to do
this. If you didn't get an owner's manual, complain to the installer, or
search online.

On Apr 30, 1:35*pm, Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. *We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. *As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. *Also, the water feels really oily. *Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. *It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? *Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

Ted Shoemaker

It could be backwashing too often using up salt so fast. But even if
you set it to backwash less frequently the water will still be just as
"oily", as the salt has nothing to do with the actual softening
process. The salt is used to break the ionic bond the filter has on
the extracted minerals, making the filter "clean" again for the next
cycle. If anything it could be that your filter is a little oversized
for your hardness and it is filtering it more than you would like it
to and making it more "oily".

You will probably have to just get used to the level of softness, but
you may be able to use less salt by slowing down the backwash
interval.

On Apr 30, 2:39*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Ted Shoemaker wrote:

Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. *We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. *As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. *Also, the water feels really oily. *Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. *It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Sounds like your water is waaaaaaay softer than you want it -- and softer than
it needs to be. Every water softener I've ever seen has some mechanism for
adjusting the amount of salt used per cycle (and hence the softness of the
water).



Is there a quick adjustment I can do? *Or is this a job for the
experts?

Undoubtedly there is an adjustment. The owner's manual will tell you how to do
this. If you didn't get an owner's manual, complain to the installer, or
search online.


It is a common misconception that the salt actually "softens" the
water, it doesnt. Salt is merely used as a brine to clean the
filter. The number of "plastic beads" in the filter is the only
determiner of how soft the water comes out. The installer should have
sized the filter tank based on the chemistry of the water as measured
with hardness test, He probably oversized to filter too much so the
water is coming out "extra" soft.

In article , RickH wrote:

It could be backwashing too often using up salt so fast. But even if
you set it to backwash less frequently the water will still be just as
"oily",

Incorrect. The softer the water, the more slippery it feels. If you want it
less slippery, make it less soft.

The frequency with which the softener refreshes is supposed to depend on the
amount of water used. The degree of softness is adjusted by changing the
amount of salt used each time it refreshes -- not the frequency of refreshing.

as the salt has nothing to do with the actual softening
process. The salt is used to break the ionic bond the filter has on
the extracted minerals, making the filter "clean" again for the next
cycle.

Also incorrect. Water softeners work by replacing calcium and magnesium ions
in the hard water with sodium ions; the source of the sodium is -- you guessed
it -- the salt you put in the brine tank. The purpose of the backwash is to
refresh the resin bed with sodium.

If anything it could be that your filter is a little oversized
for your hardness and it is filtering it more than you would like it
to and making it more "oily".

Most likely, it's just set to make the water too soft, and can easily be
adjusted to make it the way he wants it.

You will probably have to just get used to the level of softness, but
you may be able to use less salt by slowing down the backwash
interval.

What he really needs to do is reduce the salt consumption setting. His owners
manual will describe how to do this.

In article , RickH wrote:

It is a common misconception that the salt actually "softens" the
water, it doesnt. Salt is merely used as a brine to clean the
filter. The number of "plastic beads" in the filter is the only
determiner of how soft the water comes out.

Actually, you're the one with the misconceptions. Salt is the source of the
sodium that's used to soften the water. Here, educate yourself:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm

The installer should have
sized the filter tank based on the chemistry of the water as measured
with hardness test, He probably oversized to filter too much so the
water is coming out "extra" soft.

*Maybe* he oversized the unit. Much more likely, he set the softness setting
too high, and a simple adjustment will take care of the problem.

See the owners manual.

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT), Ted Shoemaker
wrote:

Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

Ted Shoemaker

You sure left out a lot of information.

(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

In article
,
RickH wrote:

It is a common misconception that the salt actually "softens" the
water, it doesnt. Salt is merely used as a brine to clean the
filter. The number of "plastic beads" in the filter is the only
determiner of how soft the water comes out.

Actually, you're the one with the misconceptions. Salt is the source
of the sodium that's used to soften the water. Here, educate yourself:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/question99.htm

The installer should have
sized the filter tank based on the chemistry of the water as measured
with hardness test, He probably oversized to filter too much so the
water is coming out "extra" soft.

*Maybe* he oversized the unit. Much more likely, he set the softness
setting too high, and a simple adjustment will take care of the
problem.

See the owners manual.

"Hardness" is the amount of calcium (mostly, magnesium also contributes)
in the water. The gadget is a cation exchanger, which takes away the
calcium in exchange for sodium. The salt solution (brine) is used to
regenerate the cation exchanger once it has yielded all the sodium in
exchange for the calcium taken out of the water.

I have a derelict softener in my basement that came with the house when
we bought it. Same problem as OP - the water was feeling slimy. We cut
out the softener from the water circuit, and almost all is fine. Our
Jersey water is potable, but to me it stinks and tastes foul. Brita
filters are used for drinking water.

I need more "soap" to wash myself here than in places with softer water
than our Jersey water. Because the calcium in the water "occupies" some
of the "soap" and renders it unusable. This is more noticeable with real
soap (sodium palmitate or stearate) than with synthetic detergents.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

In article
,
RickH wrote:

It could be backwashing too often using up salt so fast. But even if
you set it to backwash less frequently the water will still be just as
"oily",

Incorrect. The softer the water, the more slippery it feels. If you
want it less slippery, make it less soft.

The frequency with which the softener refreshes is supposed to depend
on the amount of water used. The degree of softness is adjusted by
changing the amount of salt used each time it refreshes -- not the
frequency of refreshing.

as the salt has nothing to do with the actual softening
process. The salt is used to break the ionic bond the filter has on
the extracted minerals, making the filter "clean" again for the next
cycle.

Also incorrect. Water softeners work by replacing calcium and
magnesium ions in the hard water with sodium ions; the source of the
sodium is -- you guessed it -- the salt you put in the brine tank. The
purpose of the backwash is to refresh the resin bed with sodium.

If anything it could be that your filter is a little oversized
for your hardness and it is filtering it more than you would like it
to and making it more "oily".

Most likely, it's just set to make the water too soft, and can easily
be adjusted to make it the way he wants it.

You will probably have to just get used to the level of softness, but
you may be able to use less salt by slowing down the backwash
interval.

What he really needs to do is reduce the salt consumption setting. His
owners manual will describe how to do this.

Sorry, Doug, didn't read this post before replying to the previous one!


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

Ted Shoemaker
Hi,
What brand softener? How many time you regenerate per week?
How hard is your water?

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three

Let me guess, it is either a Echo, or a Kinnetico.

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT), Ted Shoemaker
wrote Re problems with new water softener --
is this for a DIY-er or the experts?:

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week.

How often is the softener set to "regenerate". What is the timer
setting?

Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

1. One bag of salt every 3-6 months is silly...if that is all that was
actually used your water wouldn't need softening to begin with. Salesman
hype...

2. One bag a week is silly too...if you actually needed that much I doubt
the water would flow (be in a liquid form) let alone be potable.
hyperbole alert

3. Your regeneration is set too high (that's what uses salt). Call the
vendor and tell him to fix it. You could do it yourself by reading the
manual but he's the one that messed up.

4. The water isn't oily, it is basic. All basic substances feel slick.
Softeners exchange ions between the CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) in the water
and sodium on the "beads"...so that you get Na2Co3 (sodium carbonate) in the
water which makes the water feel slick. The calcium remains on the beads
and dimishes there effectiveness which is why...

....when all the sodium is gone, you have to replenish it by regnerating via
salt (NaCl). That produces sodium and CaCl2(calcium chloride). The calcium
chloride is flushed out with the regeneration water, the sodium remains so
the beads can once again soften.

dadiOH

On May 1, 10:49*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. *We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. *As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. *Also, the water feels really oily. *Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. *It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? *Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

1. *One bag of salt every 3-6 months is silly...if that is all that was
actually used your water wouldn't need softening to begin with. *Salesman
hype...

2. One bag a week is silly too...if you actually needed that much I doubt
the water would flow (be in a liquid form) let alone be potable. *
hyperbole alert

3. *Your regeneration is set too high (that's what uses salt). *Call the
vendor and tell him to fix it. *You could do it yourself by reading the
manual but he's the one that messed up.

4. The water isn't oily, it is basic. *All basic substances feel slick.
Softeners exchange ions between the CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) in the water
and sodium on the "beads"...so that you get Na2Co3 (sodium carbonate) in the
water which makes the water feel slick. *The calcium remains on the beads
and dimishes there effectiveness *which is why...

...when all the sodium is gone, you have to replenish it by regnerating via
salt (NaCl). *That produces sodium and CaCl2(calcium chloride). *The calcium
chloride is flushed out with the regeneration water, the sodium remains so
the beads can once again soften.

dadiOH

On May 1, 10:49 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Ted Shoemaker wrote:
Hello,

About a month ago, a new water softener was installed in our home. We
were told that we would need a new bag of salt about once every three
to six months. As it turns out, we've gone through about one bag per
week. Also, the water feels really oily. Yes, soft water does that -
but this water feels much oilier than the water at our friends' homes
or local businesses, many of which use water softeners. It actually
feels dirty, and the dirty feeling remains on our hands until we rinse
in nonsoftened water.

Is there a quick adjustment I can do? Or is this a job for the
experts?

Thank you!

1. One bag of salt every 3-6 months is silly...if that is all that was
actually used your water wouldn't need softening to begin with. Salesman
hype...

2. One bag a week is silly too...if you actually needed that much I doubt
the water would flow (be in a liquid form) let alone be potable.
hyperbole alert

3. Your regeneration is set too high (that's what uses salt). Call the
vendor and tell him to fix it. You could do it yourself by reading the
manual but he's the one that messed up.

4. The water isn't oily, it is basic. All basic substances feel slick.
Softeners exchange ions between the CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) in the water
and sodium on the "beads"...so that you get Na2Co3 (sodium carbonate) in the
water which makes the water feel slick. The calcium remains on the beads
and dimishes there effectiveness which is why...

...when all the sodium is gone, you have to replenish it by regnerating via
salt (NaCl). That produces sodium and CaCl2(calcium chloride). The calcium
chloride is flushed out with the regeneration water, the sodium remains so
the beads can once again soften.

dadiOH

So far no one has got it right...

Water is either hard or soft. In residential that means 0 gpg is soft
or 1 or more gpg is hard. The goal is consistent 0 gpg soft water
after the softener. A softener allowing more than 1 gpg through it is
not working right.

Sodium form resin, negative charged sites on the resin beads, is used
to remove calcium and magnesium which makes up hardness, ferrous iron,
manganese, lead, radium, copper etc. etc.. They are positive charged
ions.

For each of them, two sodium ions are released into the water stream.
All chlorides in sodium chloride (salt) is flushed to drain. All
excess sodium is also. You get 30K of regenerated capacity per ft3 of
regular mesh resin and that requires 15 lbs of salt per ft3.

You never run a softener out of capacity before regenerating it so
there is always some capacity remaining when it regenerates, like your
gas tank when you refuel the car. The optimal schedule is once every
7-9 days.

Every softener in the world has an adjustable K of capacity. It
depends on how much and what type of resin, and THEN the lbs of salt
used per regeneration. Regular and fine mesh and SST-60 are the three
types of resin. Usually no one actually needs anything but regular
mesh unless they have high iron (say 4-5 ppm or more )and then SST-60
is the better choice. Fine mesh resin has a much higher pressure loss
than the other two. At 15 lbs per ft3 you get 30K of capacity, at 9
lbs/cuft you get 24K, at 6 lbs you get 20K and so forth. Divide the K
by the lbs and you get the salt efficiency; just like figuring fuel
mileage, gallons into miles = mpg, grains into capacity = grains/lb of
salt.

I sell many softeners across the US and many use as little as 3-10 lbs
on average every 8 days. So a 40-50 lb bag every month or two is not
unusual; it's my norm. In other cases, 15lb every 4 days for a family
of 4 with 40 gpg hardness and 4 ppm of iron in OH the other day. My
record hardness is 136 gpg in PA.

The amount of sodium added is, 7.85 mg/l per grain/gallon. I.E. 20 gpg
* 7.85=157 mg per roughly a quart of softened water. Slightly more
than the sodium found in a slice of white bread or an 8 oz glass of 2%
milk.

All softeners can us potassium chloride but, if you are using a salt
setting of 6 lb/regeneration or lower, you need to increase the salt
dose lbs from 12% to 27 percent higher. And potassium chloride costs
3-4 times more for the same size bag.

There is another part of correctly sizing a softener and it is the
constant SFR (service flow rate) gpm. It is dictated by the volume of
resin in the tank. Every time the SFR gpm is exceeded, the softener
can not remove all the hardness because the water is going through the
resin too fast for the ion exchange to occur. Anyone can learn all
about at the link below.

http://www.qualitywaterassociates.co...izingchart.htm

Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates

Gary Slusser wrote:

Water is either hard or soft. In residential that means 0 gpg is soft
or 1 or more gpg is hard. The goal is consistent 0 gpg soft water
after the softener. A softener allowing more than 1 gpg through it is
not working right.

Is "gpg" grains per gallon? If it is how do I convert gpg into
parts per million?
--
I don't understand why they make gourmet cat foods. I have
known many cats in my life and none of them were gourmets.
They were all gourmands!

On May 7, 2:53*pm, Daniel Prince wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:
Water is either hard or soft. In residential that means 0 gpg is soft
or 1 or more gpg is hard. The goal is consistent 0 gpg soft water
after the softener. A softener allowing more than 1 gpg through it is
not working right.

Is "gpg" grains per gallon? *If it is how do I convert gpg into
parts per million? *
--
I don't understand why they make gourmet cat foods. *I have
known many cats in my life and none of them were gourmets.
They were all gourmands!

There are 17.1 ppm or mg/l in one gpg (grain per gallon).