I have a water softener that's probably 18 or so years old. Its apparently one
of the early demand units - goes by water usage to recharge rather than time...
It USED to work fine for three of us, but lately, even though there are only two
of us living in the house, it doesn't SEEM to be working as well.

I had the controller rebuilt a few years ago when it quit, and things went along
fine for a while, but it doesn't feel like the water is staying soft until the
scheduled gallons have been used and the unit recycles.

I recently removed the brine tank and dumped it out. Cleaned out all the caked
salt in the bottom, and cleaned out all the gunk in the tube and everything. I
watched it run a cycle and the softener did a fine job of sucking the brine out
of the tank and into the softener. I presume it was doing the right stuff in
there...

SO, since I've read in here somewhere that the resin loses some efficiency over
time, and after 18 or so years it seems we could be down to 60% or so, I figure
I could replace the softener's innards. EXCEPT, that I'd still have an 18 year
old controller that appears to be composed of plastic gears and valves and I
suspect has a limited lifespan. This SEEMS to be somewhere between $60 and $120
for parts...

OR do I just replace the softener? There are only two of us here and it seems
like our current softener cycles about once a week at 1200 gallons so it doesn't
seem like we'd need anything real big. I looked at some of the softeners at a
local place and they had a 6" that they said was good for 2-3 people, and an 8"
for 2-5. Our current softener appears to be an 8". Prices appear to be between
$500 and $1000...

When I looked at the softeners it didn't appear that the controllers had changed
much - the more reasonably priced even still LOOKED like my current one - a
couple dials on the front to set recycling interval gallons, amount of salt, and
time of day. There were also some with "digital" controllers but what's that
going to buy me given the amount of cycling we do?

Are there REALLY significant differences between the softeners, brands to go
for, brands to AVOID, or do I just run over to my neighborhood Menard's or Home
Depot and grab one...

Ideas? Thoughts?

wrote
I have a water softener that's probably 18 or so years old. Its
apparently one
of the early demand units - goes by water usage to recharge rather
than time...
It USED to work fine for three of us, but lately, even though there
are only two
of us living in the house, it doesn't SEEM to be working as well.

I had the controller rebuilt a few years ago when it quit, and things
went along
fine for a while, but it doesn't feel like the water is staying soft
until the
scheduled gallons have been used and the unit recycles.

I recently removed the brine tank and dumped it out. Cleaned out all
the caked
salt in the bottom, and cleaned out all the gunk in the tube and
everything. I
watched it run a cycle and the softener did a fine job of sucking the
brine out
of the tank and into the softener. I presume it was doing the right
stuff in
there...

SO, since I've read in here somewhere that the resin loses some
efficiency over
time, and after 18 or so years it seems we could be down to 60% or so,
I figure
I could replace the softener's innards. EXCEPT, that I'd still have
an 18 year
old controller that appears to be composed of plastic gears and valves
and I
suspect has a limited lifespan. This SEEMS to be somewhere between
$60 and $120
for parts...

OR do I just replace the softener? There are only two of us here and
it seems
like our current softener cycles about once a week at 1200 gallons so
it doesn't
seem like we'd need anything real big. I looked at some of the
softeners at a
local place and they had a 6" that they said was good for 2-3 people,
and an 8"
for 2-5. Our current softener appears to be an 8". Prices appear to
be between
$500 and $1000...

When I looked at the softeners it didn't appear that the controllers
had changed
much - the more reasonably priced even still LOOKED like my current
one - a
couple dials on the front to set recycling interval gallons, amount of
salt, and
time of day. There were also some with "digital" controllers but
what's that
going to buy me given the amount of cycling we do?

Are there REALLY significant differences between the softeners, brands
to go
for, brands to AVOID, or do I just run over to my neighborhood
Menard's or Home
Depot and grab one...

Ideas? Thoughts?

Your control is working just fine, and can be rebuilt very affordably if
it needs it in the future. Or it can be replaced very easily. Depending
on the make, you could do it yourself. The resin is in need of
replacement and you might want a new distributor tube too. I doubt that
after 18 years you have 60% of the original capacity of the new resin;
especially if you have chlorine or iron in your water.

The prices you mention are correct depending on what type resin you buy
and where you buy it. I don't agree with replacing a softener or filter
that is in good shape and capable of doing the job. Many people disagree
with that position and say I'm wrong, then they go buy a unit that
historically won't last more than a few years without problems because
they buy the cheapest they can find. Or they are a dealer not wanting to
rebuild equipment. So the answer to your questions is in what you
believe is best for you.

I believe Fleck Controls makes the best controls. I think you have an
Autotrol valve. Those two makes are the most popular controls on the
market. I carry the complete Fleck line and all the Autotrol line that
is available to an independent dealer and I have parts for both. If your
brine and resin tanks are in good shape and you're handy, I say rebuild.
But I really like selling new units too and you'd really like my prices.


Gary
Quality Water Associates

Thanks for the info Gary...

Your control is working just fine, and can be rebuilt very affordably if
it needs it in the future. Or it can be replaced very easily. Depending
on the make, you could do it yourself. The resin is in need of
replacement and you might want a new distributor tube too. I doubt that
after 18 years you have 60% of the original capacity of the new resin;
especially if you have chlorine or iron in your water.

We have city water so there's chlorine and calcium - and I suspec at least a
little iron since this is Minnesota...

The prices you mention are correct depending on what type resin you buy
and where you buy it. I don't agree with replacing a softener or filter
that is in good shape and capable of doing the job. Many people disagree
with that position and say I'm wrong, then they go buy a unit that
historically won't last more than a few years without problems because
they buy the cheapest they can find. Or they are a dealer not wanting to
rebuild equipment. So the answer to your questions is in what you
believe is best for you.

I'd agree with you. My tanks appear to be fine. And I had the control rebuilt
less than 2 years ago. With only 2 of us it doesn't cycle real often so I
wouldn't think it was worn out.


I believe Fleck Controls makes the best controls. I think you have an
Autotrol valve. Those two makes are the most popular controls on the
market. I carry the complete Fleck line and all the Autotrol line that
is available to an independent dealer and I have parts for both. If your
brine and resin tanks are in good shape and you're handy, I say rebuild.
But I really like selling new units too and you'd really like my prices.

Cool. so, if I DO have to rebuild at some point I can do that....

SO, given that I'm pretty handy (mechanic for 10 years, remodeled the kitchen
last winter, etc...) I figure I should be able to dump out some old crud and
dump in some new resin and whatever it needs...

So, what do I need? And where do I get it? I checked with the local dealer and
they want $300 for the resin - yes I'm NOT kidding - $300!

Gary, I have some additional questions...

I went downstairs and measured the softener tank. It is about 48.5" from floor
to where the controller screws in the top - figure 48". Its about 8.25 in
diameter, which I presume is an 8". So, I've evidently got an 8 X 48 tank?

I've looked at controls on the web, and it looks like the Fleck 5600 demand
control. Its not a timer, it recycles when a number of gallons has been used...
BUT, there's no people dial or hardness dial on the front...

Since its been so long since we got this thing, I figure it'd probably be handy
to get the current hardness for city water here in Burnsville, MN. I'll check
with one of the local water softener places unless you or someone out here in
the group just happens to know...

BUT, I looked in the back of the controller and its set to 11 pounds of salt.
Which is interesting, because back when it was originally installed I was told
it was set to use 7 pounds. When we had the controller rebuilt they must have
changed the setting. Has the water here gotten harder? Additional capacity to
make up for the weakened resin? Reserve? Error? There are only 2 people in
the house, and take normal showers and run the washer a normal amount for two
people. And run the dishwasher probably less than normal (eat out way too
much)...

Anyhow, given the above, and the tank size, how much resin do I need? I've
noticed it comes in .5, .75, and 1 cubic foot bags. Will 1 cubic foot fill the
thing?

In another note a while back, you said a poster should use c249 resin. Does
this still hold true, or is there something else I should be using?

wrote
Gary, I have some additional questions...

I went downstairs and measured the softener tank. It is about 48.5"
from floor
to where the controller screws in the top - figure 48". Its about
8.25 in
diameter, which I presume is an 8". So, I've evidently got an 8 X 48
tank?

I've looked at controls on the web, and it looks like the Fleck 5600
demand
control. Its not a timer, it recycles when a number of gallons has
been used...
BUT, there's no people dial or hardness dial on the front...

Since its been so long since we got this thing, I figure it'd probably
be handy
to get the current hardness for city water here in Burnsville, MN.
I'll check
with one of the local water softener places unless you or someone out
here in
the group just happens to know...

BUT, I looked in the back of the controller and its set to 11 pounds
of salt.
Which is interesting, because back when it was originally installed I
was told
it was set to use 7 pounds. When we had the controller rebuilt they
must have
changed the setting. Has the water here gotten harder? Additional
capacity to
make up for the weakened resin? Reserve? Error? There are only 2
people in
the house, and take normal showers and run the washer a normal amount
for two
people. And run the dishwasher probably less than normal (eat out way
too
much)...

Anyhow, given the above, and the tank size, how much resin do I need?
I've
noticed it comes in .5, .75, and 1 cubic foot bags. Will 1 cubic foot
fill the
thing?

In another note a while back, you said a poster should use c249 resin.
Does
this still hold true, or is there something else I should be using?

A cubic foot of softening resin usually sells for much less than $300. A
24k softener is usually in an 8" x 44" polyglass tank and smaller size
if in an FRP type tank. FRP has a thinner wall. The tank base adds about
an inch to the height of the tank. Many 5600 metered controls don't have
the People and hardness labels on the dials. It takes 12# of salt to
totally regenerate 3/4' of resin but raising the salt dose isn't going
to help if there isn't the right amount of resin in the tank or it is in
sad shape. Yes I like C-249 resin, it has more uniform bead size and no
color throw. It costs more due to the additional step in manufacturing
it. If you get around to doing something with the unit, my email works.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

A cubic foot of softening resin usually sells for much less than $300. A
24k softener is usually in an 8" x 44" polyglass tank and smaller size
if in an FRP type tank. FRP has a thinner wall. The tank base adds about
an inch to the height of the tank. Many 5600 metered controls don't have
the People and hardness labels on the dials. It takes 12# of salt to
totally regenerate 3/4' of resin but raising the salt dose isn't going
to help if there isn't the right amount of resin in the tank or it is in
sad shape. Yes I like C-249 resin, it has more uniform bead size and no
color throw. It costs more due to the additional step in manufacturing
it. If you get around to doing something with the unit, my email works.

Thanks for the info Gary...

I found some numbers for hardness in the local Home Depot. Is says Burnsville
is 20 gpg. I then tested with a kit that came with a Morton brochure and got at
LEAST 20, and it looked closer to 25 gpg to me. BTW: I also tested the soft
water and got 0 so I'm figuring the test thing probably works adequately.

My tank is fiberglass on the outside so I figure being 8 X 48, since I don't
know how much gravel is in the bottom I'm going to presume its a 32,000 grain
unit and I can put in a cubic foot of resin.

I used the calculations I found in another note to figure out the grains per
day, and a number of gallons based on two people at 60 gpd, and 25 gpg. So, I
figure if everything goes right I should only have to regenerate about every 8
days...

I've found some resins on the web:

APS Water CR-8 NA 45.80/cu ft
CR10 NA 89.49/cu ft

Fleckvalves Dowex HCR 69.00/cu ft
Dowex HCR-S 99.00/cu ft

Water Value Purolite 100 129/cu ft

OhioPureWater Ionac C-249 134/cu ft

Aqua Science Ionac C-249 93.60/cu ft

Is the C-249 twice as good at removing minerals as the cheap CR-8 or is there
some other reason for selecting the more expensive resin?