I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.


I have a Greenlee non-contact tester. It works well, but you have to
get the tip close (1/4") to the wire. Nice tool for just $16.

Smitty Two wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend
more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

I've got one of these. Works like you think it should.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96934

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

One brand is Fox and Hound.

Can you borrow a tester for a week/day?

On Mar 8, 6:53*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two

wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

One brand is Fox and Hound.

Can you borrow a tester for a week/day?

I started to rent one but two days rental would pay for a new one.

Jimmie

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

One brand is Fox and Hound.

Can you borrow a tester for a week/day?

Well, for the price point I'm considering, I'd just as soon buy one. I
don't mind owning tools. But if it turns out I need something expensive,
then borrowing makes sense, assuming the thing exists in my diminutive
personal network somewhere.

I think the challenge now is figuring out what I need. It could be that
the old light wiring is just hanging loose inside a breaker box
somewhere, but it could also have been cut and abandoned anywhere along
the way, so I might need something that can detect the wire from a fair
distance.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend
more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

I've got one of these. Works like you think it should.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96934

A useful gadget, but probably not exactly what I need for this
particular application. With all the HF chatter here, I sometimes wish
we had one around here. Sort of a sick curiosity, like wondering what
it's like inside a WalMart. Never been to one of those, either.

Smitty, where on earth do you live that doesn't have a Wal-Mart?

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many
available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to
look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to
spend
more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see
whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

I've got one of these. Works like you think it should.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96934

A useful gadget, but probably not exactly what I need for this
particular application. With all the HF chatter here, I
sometimes wish
we had one around here. Sort of a sick curiosity, like wondering
what
it's like inside a WalMart. Never been to one of those, either.

In article ,
"DanG" wrote:

Smitty, where on earth do you live that doesn't have a Wal-Mart?

--

Lots of places don't have WalMarts. One of them is Santa Barbara.

Smitty Two wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

Are you familiar with a telecom tone generator and
inductive pickup for tracing wires? Check around
pawn shops and surplus outlets if there are any in
your area. If you can just get a toner, you can use
it along with a small AM radio to trace unshielded
wires inside walls. I've used a small battery powered
AM radio to find Romex inside the walls of homes
during remodel jobs. If the wire is dead, I can hook
one of my toners to it and tune the little radio to
pickup the RF harmonics from the toner. Of course a
live wire causes a 60hz AC hum from the radio. If
you could find a "Tempo 508S Wire Finder" at a pawn
shop, on eBay or craigslist for a reasonable price,
you better grab it because the cheapest I've seen
new is $245.00.

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=165

http://www.action-electronics.com/tracker.htm

http://www.hometech.com/tools/tone.html

TDD

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"DanG" wrote:

Smitty, where on earth do you live that doesn't have a Wal-Mart?

--

Lots of places don't have WalMarts. One of them is Santa Barbara.

Lots of even bigger places don't have Walmarts.

Cities ranked by population with number of Walmarts:

New York (0)
Los Angeles (1)
Chicago (0)
Houston (15)
Phoenix (12)
Philadelphia (3)
San Antonio (14)
San Diego (4)
Dallas (8)
San Jose (2)

Other major cities:
Washington, D.C.(0)
San Francisco(0)
Boston (0)
Minneapolis (0)
Sioux Falls (2)
Anchorage (2)
Billings (2)

http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/...erviceName=ALL

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend
more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

I've got one of these. Works like you think it should.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96934

A useful gadget, but probably not exactly what I need for this
particular application.

It doesn't work if the hot is dead. But if the neutral is connected you
can kludge a hot from somewhere else and use the neutral on the circuit
you are tracing. If you know the correct neutral at the panel (or in
between)it may help you find the hot.

In the 'good old days' I used a cheap flasher and 150W light bulb as a
"transmitter" and a clamp-on ammeter as a "receiver".

--
bud--

HeyBub wrote:

Cities ranked by population with number of Walmarts:

New York (0)
Los Angeles (1)...

You're showing your ignorance here. Los Angeles is home to four
Wal-Mart stores. Panorama City, Porter Ranch, and West Hills are within
the city limits. Another sixteen stores are in the metropolitan area.

Bob wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

Cities ranked by population with number of Walmarts:

New York (0)
Los Angeles (1)...

You're showing your ignorance here. Los Angeles is home to four
Wal-Mart stores. Panorama City, Porter Ranch, and West Hills are
within the city limits. Another sixteen stores are in the
metropolitan area.

Oh, I admit to ignorance. I was just reporting what Walmart said (link
provided). I figure they should know where their stores are.

As for additional Walmarts in the larger metropolitan area, that's normal.

There are twenty Walmarts in the Chicago area, but none in the city itself.

Cities dominated by unions are loathe to allow Walmarts where the unions
have the political strength to keep them out. In the case of Chicago,
Walmart gave up trying and opened a store across the city line in a
neighboring town. They ran a help-wanted ad for about 350 positions and
THIRTEEN THOUSAND people applied. Seventy percent of the applicants had
addresses with Chicago ZIP codes.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

One brand is Fox and Hound.

Can you borrow a tester for a week/day?

Well, for the price point I'm considering, I'd just as soon buy one. I
don't mind owning tools. But if it turns out I need something expensive,
then borrowing makes sense, assuming the thing exists in my diminutive
personal network somewhere.

I think the challenge now is figuring out what I need. It could be that
the old light wiring is just hanging loose inside a breaker box
somewhere, but it could also have been cut and abandoned anywhere along
the way, so I might need something that can detect the wire from a fair
distance.


One thing that would be fun to use, but is nearly impossible to find, is a
"time domain reflectometer". A TDR measures the length of a wire by
connecting to one end of the wire. This would tell you how far away the
other end is, but it won't tell you where. Interestingly, it will also tell
you where the nicks and joints are in the line.

TDR's are highly specialized, very expensive pieces of equipment. Rental
houses won't have them and it's unlikely an electrician will either.

On Mar 10, 8:06*pm, "Bob M." wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message

news




In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

One brand is Fox and Hound.

Can you borrow a tester for a week/day?

Well, for the price point I'm considering, I'd just as soon buy one. I
don't mind owning tools. But if it turns out I need something expensive,
then borrowing makes sense, assuming the thing exists in my diminutive
personal network somewhere.

I think the challenge now is figuring out what I need. It could be that
the old light wiring is just hanging loose inside a breaker box
somewhere, but it could also have been cut and abandoned anywhere along
the way, so I might need something that can detect the wire from a fair
distance.

One thing that would be fun to use, but is nearly impossible to find, is a
"time domain reflectometer". *A TDR measures the length of a wire by
connecting to one end of the wire. This would tell you how far away the
other end is, but it won't tell you where. *Interestingly, it will also tell
you where the nicks and joints are in the line.

TDR's are highly specialized, very expensive pieces of equipment. Rental
houses won't have them and it's unlikely an electrician will either.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I hooked a TDR up to some house wiring one time and saw a lot of
little pips on the scree. I finally figure out what they were,
staples. On my TDR you have to tell it the kind of cable you are
testing to an accurate velocity length measurement. There is no data
for romex though I guess you could figure the velocity factor out by
testing a knwn length of cable.


Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:
On Mar 10, 8:06 pm, "Bob M." wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message

news




In article ,
Oren wrote:
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:03:07 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?
Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.
One brand is Fox and Hound.
Can you borrow a tester for a week/day?
Well, for the price point I'm considering, I'd just as soon buy one. I
don't mind owning tools. But if it turns out I need something expensive,
then borrowing makes sense, assuming the thing exists in my diminutive
personal network somewhere.
I think the challenge now is figuring out what I need. It could be that
the old light wiring is just hanging loose inside a breaker box
somewhere, but it could also have been cut and abandoned anywhere along
the way, so I might need something that can detect the wire from a fair
distance.
One thing that would be fun to use, but is nearly impossible to find, is a
"time domain reflectometer". A TDR measures the length of a wire by
connecting to one end of the wire. This would tell you how far away the
other end is, but it won't tell you where. Interestingly, it will also tell
you where the nicks and joints are in the line.

TDR's are highly specialized, very expensive pieces of equipment. Rental
houses won't have them and it's unlikely an electrician will either.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I hooked a TDR up to some house wiring one time and saw a lot of
little pips on the scree. I finally figure out what they were,
staples. On my TDR you have to tell it the kind of cable you are
testing to an accurate velocity length measurement. There is no data
for romex though I guess you could figure the velocity factor out by
testing a knwn length of cable.


Jimmie

What brand is it? We sold two old Tektronics 1502
units on eBay last year after rebuilding the battery
packs and fixing the chart recorder modules. The 1502
won't work on 120 volts AC unless a working battery
is installed, strange.

TDD

In article ,
"Bob M." wrote:



One thing that would be fun to use, but is nearly impossible to find, is a
"time domain reflectometer". A TDR measures the length of a wire by
connecting to one end of the wire. This would tell you how far away the
other end is, but it won't tell you where. Interestingly, it will also tell
you where the nicks and joints are in the line.

TDR's are highly specialized, very expensive pieces of equipment. Rental
houses won't have them and it's unlikely an electrician will either.

Well, my birthday is coming up in a few months ...

"honey, I don't think I'll be able to fix that wiring without a time
domain reflectometer."

Actually it seems there are several on ebay now. They do seem a tad
spendy. But what's with the $98 one?

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
I plan to buy a homeowner quality wire tracer. I see many available in
the $30 price range. Any particular brands or features to look for or
are they all pretty much the same? Any substantial reason to spend more?

Immediate use will be to trace de-energized AC wiring to see whether I
can restore operation to a few old outdoor lighting fixtures.

Are you familiar with a telecom tone generator and
inductive pickup for tracing wires? Check around
pawn shops and surplus outlets if there are any in
your area. If you can just get a toner, you can use
it along with a small AM radio to trace unshielded
wires inside walls. I've used a small battery powered
AM radio to find Romex inside the walls of homes
during remodel jobs. If the wire is dead, I can hook
one of my toners to it and tune the little radio to
pickup the RF harmonics from the toner. Of course a
live wire causes a 60hz AC hum from the radio. If
you could find a "Tempo 508S Wire Finder" at a pawn
shop, on eBay or craigslist for a reasonable price,
you better grab it because the cheapest I've seen
new is $245.00.

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=165

http://www.action-electronics.com/tracker.htm

http://www.hometech.com/tools/tone.html

TDD

Thanks for those links. Our telcom service tech at work uses a little
shirt pocket gadget like those, but I don't know what the range is.
Seems like maybe just a few inches.

The Tempo unit looks great; says it can find wire buried up to 3 feet
deep. I just did find one on CL in a nearby city and emailed the guy.

On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:58:24 -0500, "DanG" wrote:

Smitty, where on earth do you live that doesn't have a Wal-Mart?

That's impossible. There is a Walmart within 20 miles of every home
or business place on Earth. Hell, there are even Walmarts in the
middle of the desert. The only place unlikely to find a Walmart is in
the middle of the ocean, but they will soon build them too.

Someday everyone will move into a Walmart community. Walmart will own
all the houses in each community. Walmart will have it's own doctors,
hospital, police and fire departments, courthouse, gas stations, auto
dealerships, tv and radio stations, insurance, construction company,
highways, factories, pharmacy, cemeterys, post office, restaurant,
bar, and even their own government.

Walmart will be the only employer, as well as the only store.
Everyone in that community MUST work for Walmart and shop at Walmart,
or the Walmart courts and law enforcement will evict those who do not
or can not work. They will either be sentenced to death, or made to
leave the community, where they will starve because no other Walmart
community will accept them, and there will be no civilization beyond
Walmart communities anywhere on Earth.

Are you ready to join your Walmart community? It's right around the
corner!!!! And don't forget this. Walmart will pipe "Walzak" into
every home (that's the music they play in Walmart stores). No one
will be allowed to listen to any other music at any time, or their
Walmart paycheck will be withheld for six to twenty months, and the
rent money paid directly from their checks will also be withheld, so
the music criminal will be forced to live in the dumpsters behind the
Walmart store.

Now, if all of this seems a little out on a limb, consider this.
Walmart really will care about you're soul. Walmart will also have
their own churches inside the communities. Everyone will be forced to
attend these churches every Sunday morning, and to prove how much they
care, the Walmart stores will actually be closed during the church
hour so that all employees can attend their religious services.

Now, in case you're not the religious type, dont fear. Walmart
churches will only allow members to worship the real god, who
according to them is Sam Walton.

Our Sam Walton, who created Walmart heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, On earth as it is in Walmart heaven.
Give us this day our daily loaf of bread.
And forgive us if we want to shop at Kmart
As we forgive those who trespass in the dumpsters behind Walmart.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from the evils of Kmart, Target, and Kohls.
For thine is our great leader, with all the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.

AMEN.

In the name of Sam Walton, and of his son and the goods sold at
Walmart. AMEN !!!!

Jimw wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:58:24 -0500, "DanG" wrote:

Smitty, where on earth do you live that doesn't have a Wal-Mart?

That's impossible. There is a Walmart within 20 miles of every home
or business place on Earth. Hell, there are even Walmarts in the
middle of the desert. The only place unlikely to find a Walmart is in
the middle of the ocean, but they will soon build them too.

Someday everyone will move into a Walmart community. Walmart will own
all the houses in each community. Walmart will have it's own doctors,
hospital, police and fire departments, courthouse, gas stations, auto
dealerships, tv and radio stations, insurance, construction company,
highways, factories, pharmacy, cemeterys, post office, restaurant,
bar, and even their own government.

Walmart will be the only employer, as well as the only store.
Everyone in that community MUST work for Walmart and shop at Walmart,
or the Walmart courts and law enforcement will evict those who do not
or can not work. They will either be sentenced to death, or made to
leave the community, where they will starve because no other Walmart
community will accept them, and there will be no civilization beyond
Walmart communities anywhere on Earth.

Are you ready to join your Walmart community? It's right around the
corner!!!! And don't forget this. Walmart will pipe "Walzak" into
every home (that's the music they play in Walmart stores). No one
will be allowed to listen to any other music at any time, or their
Walmart paycheck will be withheld for six to twenty months, and the
rent money paid directly from their checks will also be withheld, so
the music criminal will be forced to live in the dumpsters behind the
Walmart store.

Now, if all of this seems a little out on a limb, consider this.
Walmart really will care about you're soul. Walmart will also have
their own churches inside the communities. Everyone will be forced to
attend these churches every Sunday morning, and to prove how much they
care, the Walmart stores will actually be closed during the church
hour so that all employees can attend their religious services.

Now, in case you're not the religious type, dont fear. Walmart
churches will only allow members to worship the real god, who
according to them is Sam Walton.

Our Sam Walton, who created Walmart heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, On earth as it is in Walmart heaven.
Give us this day our daily loaf of bread.
And forgive us if we want to shop at Kmart
As we forgive those who trespass in the dumpsters behind Walmart.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from the evils of Kmart, Target, and Kohls.
For thine is our great leader, with all the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.

AMEN.

In the name of Sam Walton, and of his son and the goods sold at
Walmart. AMEN !!!!


Demolition Man, all restaurants are Taco Bell.

TDD