went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?

--
skeeter

"skeeter" wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?

Yep. Potassium is a major component of fertilizer and the Chinese have been
buying huge quantities in the past year or so. Has driven the price through the
roof.

Is it better? Potassium and sodium are are both naturally occuring elements and
both are so diluted as a part of the sewage treatment process that I doubt there
is any noticeable difference. Some people think potassium is easier on septic
systems. The EPA and several university studies suggest there is no difference.

Some people buy potassium for softeners in an attemp to reduce their overall
sodium intake. In most cases, softened water contains between 40-80mg of sodium
per litre. To put that in context, ask yourself how many litres of tap water you
drink a day and consider that a single slice of white bread contains between
150-200mg of sodium and a can of chicken noodle soup can conatin over 500mg of
sodium.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote Re potassium cost vs salt:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?

Potassium is definitely better.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message

Potassium is definitely better.

What makes it better? The water is either going to be soft or not and
potassium costs more. What am I missing?

On Feb 26, 11:54*am, "skeeter" wrote:
went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?

--
skeeter

If I remember this correctly, the price of potassium has more to do
with the fact that there are very limited number of suppliers than the
demand from China or India. With major suppliers merged together
(last year?) or something like that, this creates a semi-monoply
situation. There was also having to do with a very speculative market
last year with too much money chasing after the commodity market. Now
that the price of all the commodities have dropped to a more
reasonable level, I have a feeling that the price of potassium should
come down too, right? May be your supplier is still sitting on some
old stocks that he ordered last year at the peak of the market.

Jay Chan

Jay Chan wrote:

If I remember this correctly, the price of potassium has more to do
with the fact that there are very limited number of suppliers than the
demand from China or India.

It looks to be a combination of both:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Worsen...8.-a0177362582

Robert Neville wrote:
"skeeter" wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?

Yep. Potassium is a major component of fertilizer and the Chinese have been
buying huge quantities in the past year or so. Has driven the price through the
roof.

Is it better? Potassium and sodium are are both naturally occuring elements and
both are so diluted as a part of the sewage treatment process that I doubt there
is any noticeable difference. Some people think potassium is easier on septic
systems. The EPA and several university studies suggest there is no difference.

Some people buy potassium for softeners in an attemp to reduce their overall
sodium intake. In most cases, softened water contains between 40-80mg of sodium
per litre. To put that in context, ask yourself how many litres of tap water you
drink a day and consider that a single slice of white bread contains between
150-200mg of sodium and a can of chicken noodle soup can conatin over 500mg of
sodium.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

Thanks

Lou

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
"skeeter" wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?

Yep. Potassium is a major component of fertilizer and the Chinese have
been
buying huge quantities in the past year or so. Has driven the price
through the
roof.

Is it better? Potassium and sodium are are both naturally occuring
elements and
both are so diluted as a part of the sewage treatment process that I doubt
there
is any noticeable difference. Some people think potassium is easier on
septic
systems. The EPA and several university studies suggest there is no
difference.

Some people buy potassium for softeners in an attemp to reduce their
overall
sodium intake. In most cases, softened water contains between 40-80mg of
sodium
per litre. To put that in context, ask yourself how many litres of tap
water you
drink a day and consider that a single slice of white bread contains
between
150-200mg of sodium and a can of chicken noodle soup can conatin over
500mg of
sodium.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

very good article. thanks.

--
skeeter

Robert Neville wrote:
"skeeter" wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price
of potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but
by how much?

Yep. Potassium is a major component of fertilizer and the Chinese
have been buying huge quantities in the past year or so. Has driven
the price through the roof.

Is it better? Potassium and sodium are are both naturally occuring
elements and both are so diluted as a part of the sewage treatment
process that I doubt there is any noticeable difference. Some people
think potassium is easier on septic systems. The EPA and several
university studies suggest there is no difference.

Some people buy potassium for softeners in an attemp to reduce their
overall sodium intake. In most cases, softened water contains between
40-80mg of sodium per litre. To put that in context, ask yourself how
many litres of tap water you drink a day and consider that a single
slice of white bread contains between 150-200mg of sodium and a can
of chicken noodle soup can conatin over 500mg of sodium.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

Sodium aggravates hypertension - but does not CAUSE it. Six percent of the
population has hypertension and about half of those have the type that is
exacerbated by sodium. So, then, for 97% of the population, salt has NO
effect on blood pressure.

Controlled studies have been done where subjects have been given up to 25
grams of salt per day over prolonged periods. As best researchers can tell,
their bodies simply excreted that which was not necessary.

The most recent study was completed last year by the Department of Defense
and is found in a report titled: "Excess Salt as an Interrogation
Technique," Physiological Measurement Study Group, Camp Delta, Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba.

skeeter wrote:
went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by
how much?

Hi,
I tried Potassium and it did not do as good as salt.

LouB wrote:
Robert Neville wrote:
"skeeter" wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price
of potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by
how much?

Yep. Potassium is a major component of fertilizer and the Chinese have
been
buying huge quantities in the past year or so. Has driven the price
through the
roof.

Is it better? Potassium and sodium are are both naturally occuring
elements and
both are so diluted as a part of the sewage treatment process that I
doubt there
is any noticeable difference. Some people think potassium is easier on
septic
systems. The EPA and several university studies suggest there is no
difference.

Some people buy potassium for softeners in an attemp to reduce their
overall
sodium intake. In most cases, softened water contains between 40-80mg
of sodium
per litre. To put that in context, ask yourself how many litres of tap
water you
drink a day and consider that a single slice of white bread contains
between
150-200mg of sodium and a can of chicken noodle soup can conatin over
500mg of
sodium.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

Thanks

Lou
Hi,
In our area, house is plumbed in such a way that drinking tap in the
kitchen is not hooked into softener. Any how I have 6 stage
under-the-sink filtering set up which gives drinking/cooking water.
Softener is for bathing and washing.

HeyBub wrote:
Robert Neville wrote:
"skeeter" wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price
of potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but
by how much?
Yep. Potassium is a major component of fertilizer and the Chinese
have been buying huge quantities in the past year or so. Has driven
the price through the roof.

Is it better? Potassium and sodium are are both naturally occuring
elements and both are so diluted as a part of the sewage treatment
process that I doubt there is any noticeable difference. Some people
think potassium is easier on septic systems. The EPA and several
university studies suggest there is no difference.

Some people buy potassium for softeners in an attemp to reduce their
overall sodium intake. In most cases, softened water contains between
40-80mg of sodium per litre. To put that in context, ask yourself how
many litres of tap water you drink a day and consider that a single
slice of white bread contains between 150-200mg of sodium and a can
of chicken noodle soup can conatin over 500mg of sodium.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

Sodium aggravates hypertension - but does not CAUSE it. Six percent of the
population has hypertension and about half of those have the type that is
exacerbated by sodium. So, then, for 97% of the population, salt has NO
effect on blood pressure.

Controlled studies have been done where subjects have been given up to 25
grams of salt per day over prolonged periods. As best researchers can tell,
their bodies simply excreted that which was not necessary.

The most recent study was completed last year by the Department of Defense
and is found in a report titled: "Excess Salt as an Interrogation
Technique," Physiological Measurement Study Group, Camp Delta, Guantanamo
Bay, Cuba.


Hmmm,
Even if for a person who has a compromised kidney function?
I had a kidney x-plant 16 years ago, sodium is big no, no.

Tony Hwang wrote:

I tried Potassium and it did not do as good as salt.

That was my experience as well. I had to recharge far more often than when I
used potassium chloride.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Sodium aggravates hypertension - but does not CAUSE it. Six percent
of the population has hypertension and about half of those have the
type that is exacerbated by sodium. So, then, for 97% of the
population, salt has NO effect on blood pressure.

Controlled studies have been done where subjects have been given up
to 25 grams of salt per day over prolonged periods. As best
researchers can tell, their bodies simply excreted that which was
not necessary. The most recent study was completed last year by the
Department of
Defense and is found in a report titled: "Excess Salt as an
Interrogation Technique," Physiological Measurement Study Group,
Camp Delta, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.


Hmmm,
Even if for a person who has a compromised kidney function?
I had a kidney x-plant 16 years ago, sodium is big no, no.

Good point. I'm sure there's the occasional odd situation such as yours.
Heck, there might even be one or two who are allergic to salt!

On the other hand, maybe you just got a sub-standard kidney... Didn't come
from Walmart, did it?

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

Hmmm,
Even if for a person who has a compromised kidney function?
I had a kidney x-plant 16 years ago, sodium is big no, no.

Good point. I'm sure there's the occasional odd situation such as
yours. Heck, there might even be one or two who are allergic to salt!

On the other hand, maybe you just got a sub-standard kidney... Didn't
come from Walmart, did it?

That's not funny.

However, everyone needs some sodium in the diet. It is the overload that
can be damaging if kidney function is compromised. Allso, I don't think
you can be "allergic" in the official sense of the word to sodium or
potassium chloride.

Have you heard of thew guy who was suing his wife as part of the divorce
for his kidney back (he had donated his kidney to his wife) or $1.5
million? Judge threw it out as the kidney not being "marital" property.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?


Potassium ions are a little more reactive than sodium. Both have very
similar properties. You could use more sodium salt and probably get
the same results. I'd switch to sodium when potassium jumps 100%,
but only if approved by the water softener manufacturer.

In article , Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?


Potassium ions are a little more reactive than sodium.

You have that backwards.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:07:00 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price
of potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but
by how much?


I don't know the answer to your question, but recent studies
have found the eating bananas at least partly offsets using too much
salt on your food.

But you may just be trading one problem for another!

People who ate bananas before 1910 are today either dead or have white hair
and no teeth. Laboratory rats force-fed five pounds of bananas a day
developed distended bellies and became lethargic.

So that is my problem. I just thought I was getting old.

HeyBub wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Sodium aggravates hypertension - but does not CAUSE it. Six percent
of the population has hypertension and about half of those have the
type that is exacerbated by sodium. So, then, for 97% of the
population, salt has NO effect on blood pressure.

Controlled studies have been done where subjects have been given up
to 25 grams of salt per day over prolonged periods. As best
researchers can tell, their bodies simply excreted that which was
not necessary. The most recent study was completed last year by the
Department of
Defense and is found in a report titled: "Excess Salt as an
Interrogation Technique," Physiological Measurement Study Group,
Camp Delta, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.


Hmmm,
Even if for a person who has a compromised kidney function?
I had a kidney x-plant 16 years ago, sodium is big no, no.

Good point. I'm sure there's the occasional odd situation such as yours.
Heck, there might even be one or two who are allergic to salt!

On the other hand, maybe you just got a sub-standard kidney... Didn't come
from Walmart, did it?


Hi,
Genetics. Knowing it way ahead of time it lasted 10 year longer than
expected according to doctor.

Han wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

Hmmm,
Even if for a person who has a compromised kidney function?
I had a kidney x-plant 16 years ago, sodium is big no, no.
Good point. I'm sure there's the occasional odd situation such as
yours. Heck, there might even be one or two who are allergic to salt!

On the other hand, maybe you just got a sub-standard kidney... Didn't
come from Walmart, did it?

That's not funny.

However, everyone needs some sodium in the diet. It is the overload that
can be damaging if kidney function is compromised. Allso, I don't think
you can be "allergic" in the official sense of the word to sodium or
potassium chloride.

Have you heard of thew guy who was suing his wife as part of the divorce
for his kidney back (he had donated his kidney to his wife) or $1.5
million? Judge threw it out as the kidney not being "marital" property.

Hi,
Yep, that guy was a doctor. She was having an affair after she got well
with new kidny. I am reading a book "Timbuktu" and in the book they talk
about native AQfrican salt miners. They live in a house built with salt
slabs, drink salty water the whole area is soaked with salt. When they
come to town they drink clean water and for few days they get very sick
and when they go back to mine, drink salty water and vice versa but I
don't know how long they live on the average. From every day food we
eat, we get enough sodium we need and maybe more.

wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?


I don't know the answer to your question, but recent studies
have found the eating bananas at least partly offsets using too much
salt on your food.
Hi,
Bananas is rich in Potassium. For people who has BP problem, eating one
a day is good.

In article , Tony Hwang wrote:

Bananas is rich in Potassium. For people who has BP problem, eating one
a day is good.

Not so fast there -- whether it's good or not depends on what medication is
used to treat the hypertension. Some antihypertensives act by selectively
excreting sodium and retaining potassium -- and the package inserts
specifically warn against consuming a diet high in potassium. Big bold letters
"do not use potassium-based salt substitutes" etc. etc.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:53:38 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?


Potassium ions are a little more reactive than sodium.

You have that backwards.

Check out a Periodic Table. Elements are more reactive as you move
DOWN the periodic group. High school chemistry.

In article , Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:53:38 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Phisherman
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?


Potassium ions are a little more reactive than sodium.

You have that backwards.

Check out a Periodic Table. Elements are more reactive as you move
DOWN the periodic group. High school chemistry.

You have that backwards too. They're more reactive as you move UP: the most
reactive elements that exist are fluorine and lithium. They're at the top.
High school chemistry.

(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

You have that backwards too. They're more reactive as you move UP: the
most reactive elements that exist are fluorine and lithium. They're at
the top. High school chemistry.

I think it goes this way, but I wasn't sure. The lab assistants in my
college organic lab course (the Utrecht lab specialized in syntheses
using triple bond starting materials) used to say something like "lithium
you can chew, sodium you can **** on, but potassium you have to be
careful with". That seems to be born out by this quote from
http://www.chemicalelements.com/groups/alkali.html: ".. the alkali
metals are malleable, ductile, and are good conductors of heat and
electricity. The alkali metals are softer than most other metals. Cesium
and francium are the most reactive elements in this group. "

Grouped acording to increasing atomic mass, again according to that web
site:
The Alkali Metals a

* Lithium
* Sodium
* Potassium
* Rubidium
* Cesium
* Francium



--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:53:38 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Phisherman
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:54:08 -0500, "skeeter"
wrote:

went to pick up some potassium for the water softener and the price of
potassium jumped 100% from $10 to $20 per bag.
is it worth the extra cost? i know it's environmentally better but by how
much?


Potassium ions are a little more reactive than sodium.

You have that backwards.

Check out a Periodic Table. Elements are more reactive as you move
DOWN the periodic group. High school chemistry.

You have that backwards too. They're more reactive as you move UP: the most
reactive elements that exist are fluorine and lithium. They're at the top.
High school chemistry.

Not true.

Chemical reactivity depends on whether the particular Periodic Table
"Group"(determined by the number of valence electrons) to which the
element belongs GIVES UP electrons (e.g., Group I consisting of Lithium,
Sodium, Potassium, etc.) or CAPTURES electrons (e.g., Group VII
consisting of Fluorine, Chlorine, Bromine, etc.).

The "gives up electrons" groups (prime being Group I) are MORE
chemically reactive as you go DOWN the chart -- easier to give up
electrons as the orbitals grow more distant from the nucleus. So, in
Group I, Potassium is MORE chemically reactive than Sodium which is MORE
chemically reactive than Lithium.

The "captures electrons" groups (prime being Group VII) are LESS
chemically reactive as you go DOWN the chart -- harder to capture
electrons in orbitals more distant from the nucleus. So, in Group VII,
Flourine is more chemically reactive than Chlorine which is more
chemically reactive than Bromine.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:25:00 -0500, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message

I don't know the answer to your question, but recent studies
have found the eating bananas at least partly offsets using too much
salt on your food.

I saw a movie once that had a banana in it. I've never looked at one the
same way after than.


I guess I don't want to know what kind of movies you watch :-)