McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex", "pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx) button (pan?)
head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened pin. Takes a
special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own search of the
above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what the heck I
am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized.

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I need to
try again. But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK.

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

TIA
Phil

"Phil Again" wrote in message

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized.

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I need to
try again. But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK.

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

The keep 10 year old girls from taking things apart, but anyone that can
order a tool can remove them too. Welding is the only secure way.

The[y] keep 10 year old girls from taking things apart, but anyone that
can
order a tool can remove them too. Welding is the only secure way.

Not looking for security, only looking for tamper-resistance. Yes,
anyone can purchase the tool, but the effort to purchase the tool is
enough in my case. Determined bad guys could always use crow-bar with
pipe extension and not worry about screws, rivets, or welding at all.
However, if everyone has the tool already, and the effort to purchase
isn't there, then I will go with a spanner type sheet metal screw. But I
would rather go with a pin-in.

On Feb 11, 9:42*pm, Phil Again wrote:
McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex", "pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx) button (pan?)
head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened pin. *Takes a
special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own search of the
above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what the heck I
am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. *But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized. *

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? *If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I need to
try again. *But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK. *

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. *Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

TIA
Phil

It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

Phil Again wrote:


The[y] keep 10 year old girls from taking things apart, but anyone that
can
order a tool can remove them too. Welding is the only secure way.

Not looking for security, only looking for tamper-resistance. Yes,
anyone can purchase the tool, but the effort to purchase the tool is
enough in my case. Determined bad guys could always use crow-bar with
pipe extension and not worry about screws, rivets, or welding at all.
However, if everyone has the tool already, and the effort to purchase
isn't there, then I will go with a spanner type sheet metal screw. But I
would rather go with a pin-in.

A full security bit set is available from numerous sources for $5-10. If
you want any sort of security or even tamper resistance you really need
to look at something beyond the screws.

On Feb 11, 9:18*pm, Phil Again wrote:
The[y] keep 10 year old girls from taking things apart, but anyone that
can
order a tool can remove them too. *Welding is the only secure way.

Not looking for security, only looking for tamper-resistance. *Yes,
anyone can purchase the tool, but the effort to purchase the tool is
enough in my case. *Determined bad guys could always use crow-bar with
pipe extension and not worry about screws, rivets, or welding at all. *
However, if everyone has the tool already, and the effort to purchase
isn't there, *then I will go with a spanner type sheet metal screw. But I
would rather go with a pin-in.

Harbor Freight has a set of bits for around $8 to fit every security
screw you mentioned, including spanners. So yeah, they're very easy
to get. The only one I didn't find in the set was a 5 sided w/pin for
the screw that holds the handle on a propane tank.
KC

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:18:48 -0600, Phil Again
wrote:



The[y] keep 10 year old girls from taking things apart, but anyone that
can
order a tool can remove them too. Welding is the only secure way.

Not looking for security, only looking for tamper-resistance. Yes,
anyone can purchase the tool, but the effort to purchase the tool is
enough in my case. Determined bad guys could always use crow-bar with
pipe extension and not worry about screws, rivets, or welding at all.
However, if everyone has the tool already, and the effort to purchase
isn't there, then I will go with a spanner type sheet metal screw. But I
would rather go with a pin-in.

They seem pretty uncommon to me. I've bought sets of special tips, in
red vinyl bricks, maybe 3 x 2 x 2 inches. They contained torx, but
not pin-in iirc. I've only seen them at hamfests and iirc
harborfreight.

I have another set in a baby blue hard plastic box, with hinges at one
end and a handle at the other, and it has pin in. Sold at the smae
places. Right, it was not expensive, but I bet less than 1/2 a
percent have them.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
wrote:



It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. The kind with the hole in the tip.

Sorry, it it doesn't mention pin-in, and it certainly doesn't mention
torx pin-in.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
wrote:



It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. The kind with the hole in the tip.

On Feb 11, 8:42*pm, Phil Again wrote:
McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex", "pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx) button (pan?)
head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened pin. *Takes a
special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own search of the
above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what the heck I
am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. *But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized. *

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? *If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I need to
try again. *But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK. *

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. *Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

TIA
Phil

Torx are far less common than hex in the market currently. Choose that
for your project and take advantage of the better drive
characteristics of the Torx heads. Torx drive surpasses even square
drive construction screws on commercial jobs. Try them yourself with
an impact driver and be convinced.
I don't know if they are in the market yet, but if you can find screws
that take a Torx socket (female) there just isn't anybody carrying
anything like that around in their pocket. Bolts in that pattern are
showing up in automotive. Good luck.

Joe

In article , Phil Again wrote:
[...]
Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

In stock at most Ace Hardware stores, in my experience.

On 2/11/2009 8:03 PM mm spake thus:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
wrote:

It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. The kind with the hole in the tip.

I have a set of those bits from Harbor Freight, and I'm pretty sure it
includes those ones with the holes for pins.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On Feb 11, 10:03*pm, mm wrote:


I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. * The kind with the hole in the tip.

Click on either of the 'related items' in the ad and you will see a
blownup pic of the bits.

mm wrote:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:18:48 -0600, Phil Again
wrote:



The[y] keep 10 year old girls from taking things apart, but anyone that
can
order a tool can remove them too. Welding is the only secure way.

Not looking for security, only looking for tamper-resistance. Yes,
anyone can purchase the tool, but the effort to purchase the tool is
enough in my case. Determined bad guys could always use crow-bar with
pipe extension and not worry about screws, rivets, or welding at all.
However, if everyone has the tool already, and the effort to purchase
isn't there, then I will go with a spanner type sheet metal screw. But I
would rather go with a pin-in.

They seem pretty uncommon to me. I've bought sets of special tips, in
red vinyl bricks, maybe 3 x 2 x 2 inches. They contained torx, but
not pin-in iirc. I've only seen them at hamfests and iirc
harborfreight.

I have another set in a baby blue hard plastic box, with hinges at one
end and a handle at the other, and it has pin in. Sold at the smae
places. Right, it was not expensive, but I bet less than 1/2 a
percent have them.

You need to look at your set closer. The little red brick contains
pin-torx, pin-allen and pin-spanner as well as several other less common
varieties.

mm wrote:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
wrote:



It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. The kind with the hole in the tip.

You didn't read it very well, in the list a

9 hollow tip torque
6 hollow metric hex
6 hollow SAE hex

"Hollow" is just another description for the pin-in, pin center style.
They can also be clearly seen in the pictures.

mm wrote:

Sorry, it it doesn't mention pin-in, and it certainly doesn't mention
torx pin-in.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
wrote:



It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. The kind with the hole in the tip.

You didn't read it very well, in the list a

9 hollow tip torque
6 hollow metric hex
6 hollow SAE hex

"Hollow" is just another description for the pin-in, pin center style.
They can also be clearly seen in the pictures.

My 100 piece HF set didn't help me take apart my cell
phone. I'm also not sure it had the proper tip to dissemble
Leatherman tools. Five lobe pin torx, or some strange setup.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"KC" wrote in message
...

Harbor Freight has a set of bits for around $8 to fit every
security
screw you mentioned, including spanners. So yeah, they're
very easy
to get. The only one I didn't find in the set was a 5 sided
w/pin for
the screw that holds the handle on a propane tank.
KC

What is your application? What are you trying to do?

The "drilled torx" or drilled hex screws will make it
obvious that you don't want others to dissemble your device.
How effective is this? No way to know, from here.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Phil Again" wrote in message
m...
McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses
have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex",
"pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx)
button (pan?)
head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened
pin. Takes a
special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own
search of the
above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what
the heck I
am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like
"spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e.
I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized.

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin
hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? If every Uncle Bob has one of those,
then I need to
try again. But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK.

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I
am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to
search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and
torx key
tools are?

TIA
Phil

"Phil Again" wrote in message
m...
McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex", "pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx) button (pan?)
head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened pin. Takes a
special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own search of the
above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what the heck I
am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized.

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I need to
try again. But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK.

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

TIA
Phil



You could use 5 point torx plus security screws and bits. That's if you can find someone to sell
them to you.....Paul

http://www.oemhardware.ca/tamperproof.htm

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:24:59 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


mm wrote:

Sorry, it it doesn't mention pin-in, and it certainly doesn't mention
torx pin-in.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
wrote:



It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. The kind with the hole in the tip.

You didn't read it very well, in the list a

9 hollow tip torque

Why does this say torque and not torx? But regardless, you're right.

6 hollow metric hex
6 hollow SAE hex

"Hollow" is just another description for the pin-in, pin center style.
They can also be clearly seen in the pictures.

You're right about hollow.

Just 2 days ago I got an add-on for Firefox, Image Zoom**, and this is
first time I had a real use fo rit, and you're right. Enlarged I
could see that it was torx.

So it's easy to get, but I still think that few people will have it,
mostly the guys who love to buy tools, and I don't think they are the
same ones who tear things apart just for fun.

The OP had said:
Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

I'll bet most nosy people and teen-age vandals (the most common age)
have been to or even heard of Harbor Freight.

**
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...+image&cat=all

{snip}
So it's easy to get, but I still think that few people will have it,
mostly the guys who love to buy tools, and I don't think they are the
same ones who tear things apart just for fun.

{snip}

mm:

You win the prize----- You seem to one of the very few who have actually
made an attempt to answer my question.

I honestly don't care how easy it is to get the tool. The inconvenience
of driving to HF, or Sears, or ordering on the Internet is in itself
enough deterrent. And as you stated, guys who love tools and / or likely
to have the tool back at home, are not going to remove the screws or take
it apart just for fun; but if they have a *need* they will get the tool
and open it. Which is OK with me.

Thanks to all who replied.

Phil

theres a wierd torx pin type used in prisons. i found out after
attempting to move a security screen in a friends van. the security
screen company admitted it was very high security and likely no one
would sell me the tool.

so i ground off the heads.

apparently the pupeteer van was originally destined for police work...

i saw the same fastner when a cop gave me and my wife a ride after our
vehicle broke down.

police car back seats are very cramped and not comfy...

that week all 3 of our vehicles died, the last ones transmission blew
up ...........

In article ,
Phil Again wrote:

McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex", "pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx) button (pan?)
head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened pin. Takes a
special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own search of the
above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what the heck I
am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner", "One-way"
and so forth. But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can take on
and off, but not unauthorized.

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the torx
with the pin hole? If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I need to
try again. But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK.

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking for
casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to search for a
removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

TIA
Phil



I'd say it would be fairly uncommon for someone to have those tools
readily at hand. Easy to get when you need one, but not so common in a
toolbox or shop. We use the security allen heads in a customer's product
and have had to make a run to the tool store a couple of times to
replace a misplaced tool. And, we have a *lot* of tools in the shop.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message newsrestwhich-

I'd say it would be fairly uncommon for someone to have those tools
readily at hand. Easy to get when you need one, but not so common in a
toolbox or shop. We use the security allen heads in a customer's product
and have had to make a run to the tool store a couple of times to
replace a misplaced tool. And, we have a *lot* of tools in the shop.

Sorry, folks, but I picked up a selection of "Security" bits from Harbor
Freight about a month ago. It was on sale for about $8 for 100 bits. It
was worth the price just for the regular bits that were included. That cat
is "out of the bag."

There is a bit that used in those cheap toys that come from McD's that's NOT
in the selection:

It's a TRIANGLE bit. My "kit" has a three (as compared to four) slot
"phillips" bit but no solid triangle.

Your only hope is that the folks who want to take out those screws don't
plan AHead.

{snip}
Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?



I'd say it would be fairly uncommon for someone to have those tools
readily at hand. Easy to get when you need one, but not so common in a
toolbox or shop. We use the security allen heads in a customer's product
and have had to make a run to the tool store a couple of times to
replace a misplaced tool. And, we have a *lot* of tools in the shop.

A big Thank-you for a direct answer to my question.

Phil

In article ,
"John Gilmer" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message newsrestwhich-

I'd say it would be fairly uncommon for someone to have those tools
readily at hand. Easy to get when you need one, but not so common in a
toolbox or shop. We use the security allen heads in a customer's product
and have had to make a run to the tool store a couple of times to
replace a misplaced tool. And, we have a *lot* of tools in the shop.

Sorry, folks, but I picked up a selection of "Security" bits from Harbor
Freight about a month ago. It was on sale for about $8 for 100 bits. It
was worth the price just for the regular bits that were included. That cat
is "out of the bag."

There is a bit that used in those cheap toys that come from McD's that's NOT
in the selection:

It's a TRIANGLE bit. My "kit" has a three (as compared to four) slot
"phillips" bit but no solid triangle.

Your only hope is that the folks who want to take out those screws don't
plan AHead.

Yep. That's *exactly* what the OP is counting on. He doesn't want the
screws casually removed by any old knothead. The fact that you have a
set of bits and that they are readily available (which the OP already
said and I echoed) does *not* make them a staple item in everyone's
toolbox.

On Feb 11, 11:04*pm, mm wrote:
Sorry, it it doesn't mention pin-in, and it certainly doesn't mention
torx pin-in.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:33:05 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor

wrote:

It is very uncommon for a run-of-the-mill person to have them but they
are easy enough to get.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91310

I looked at the ad, and it itemizes the tips, but doesn't mention
pin-in. * The kind with the hole in the tip.

I bought two sets at Micro Center and between the two of them I
probably spent less than $20 and now can take just about anything
apart. I picked up the pentagonal one from a sprinkler guy, that
didn't come with the sets (that one I believe is also used on some
waterflow switch covers)

nate

Phil Again wrote:
McMaster-Carr, MSC, and Grainger industrial supply houses have sheet
metal screws that go by the name of "pin-in-hex", "pin-in-torx",
"tamperproof", or just plain "security sheet metal screws"

Basically, these sheet metal screws are hex-key (or torx) button
(pan?) head screws but in the center of the hex key is a hardened
pin. Takes a special hex key or torx drive to install or remove.
(I presume here that any interested reader can do their own search of
the above Industrial supply houses for detailed sketches of what the
heck I am talking about.)

There are other "security" sheet metal screws, like "spanner",
"One-way" and so forth. But I want to concentrate on Hex or Torx.

I am looking for a tamper-resistant sheet metal screw; i.e. I can
take on and off, but not unauthorized.

So the question, how common is the hex key with the pin hole, or the
torx with the pin hole? If every Uncle Bob has one of those, then I
need to try again. But if it is mostly uncommon, I will feel OK.

Tamper-resistant is not thief-proof nor vandalism-proof, I am looking
for casual nosy curiosity resistance. Make them take time to search
for a removal tool.

Any opinions on how commom the tamper-resistance hex key and torx key
tools are?

Just about any sheet metal screw can become "tamper proof" if you fill the
screwdriver insertion area with a dollop of epoxy.

Then, to remove the screw, you drill a small hole, insert a screw-extractor,
and wind it out. You could probably even re-use the screw with another
portion of epoxy.

Phil Again wrote:
{snip}
So it's easy to get, but I still think that few people will have it,
mostly the guys who love to buy tools, and I don't think they are the
same ones who tear things apart just for fun.

{snip}

mm:

You win the prize----- You seem to one of the very few who have actually
made an attempt to answer my question.

I honestly don't care how easy it is to get the tool. The inconvenience
of driving to HF, or Sears, or ordering on the Internet is in itself
enough deterrent. And as you stated, guys who love tools and / or likely
to have the tool back at home, are not going to remove the screws or take
it apart just for fun; but if they have a *need* they will get the tool
and open it. Which is OK with me.

Thanks to all who replied.

Phil


Pin in center fasteners are easily defeated with an
automatic center punch. You place the tip of the punch
in the space between the pin and drive surface, push
and it will break off the the pin so a standard hex
or Torx bit can be used. I remember seeing a fastener
that had a head similar to a dome nut but without the
flats. The head was not as tall as a dome nut, more
like a round head screw but slightly out of round so
nothing but the matching tool could grip it.

TDD