An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx

What I find a little more sneaky is the fact that the heater is free.
You just pay for the wood case. That way when the heater craps out
and you inquire about a refund you get nothing because it was free.

G.S.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:21:21 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:


An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx



Well, obviously... the heater is electric. What would Amish know about
electric heaters?

That said, there is a store near me that sells Amish-made furniture; I'm
tempted to buy some because it looks pretty close to what I would make
myself should I have the time/tools/motivation to do so. Visiting there
and then a well known general furniture store immediately afterwards
confirmed that sometimes, yes, you do get what you pay for (and paying
2x the price to get better quality is not always that bad a deal.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:21:21 -0600, HeyBub wrote:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx

They must subscriber to the notion that it is a sin to let a sucker keep
his money.

HeyBub wrote:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx



Barnum was right.....

But the folks selling those must be doing ok or they couldn't support
their huge advertising budget.

The "EdenPure" is another example of a grossly overpriced electric
heater marketed with a huge ad campaign.

One kilowatt of electric resistance heating always produces
3414.42594972 Thermal BTUs/Hr. The distribution of those BTUs can vary
depending on the style of the heater, presence of fans, etc., but you
can't get something for nothing.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx


I've been amused by this. When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. They are good at woodwork.

On Dec 30, 9:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

There must be alot of Amish electrician jokes.

They dopuppy mills too

On Dec 30, 1:05*pm, ransley wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

There must be alot of Amish electrician jokes.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:44:59 -0800, bigjimpack wrote:

They dopuppy mills too

The big four legged animals are horses.

On Dec 30, 1:05*pm, ransley wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

There must be alot of Amish electrician jokes.

Tell me all of them you know except the one about how many it takes to
screw in a light bulb.

On Dec 30, 12:24*pm, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

I've been amused by this. *When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. *Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. *They are good at woodwork.

Also understand they do not like their pictures taken.

Then who are all of those bearded guys making the wooden mantles in
the commercial?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:24 pm, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.
"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "
http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...
I've been amused by this. When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. They are good at woodwork.

Also understand they do not like their pictures taken.

Then who are all of those bearded guys making the wooden mantles in
the commercial?

Who knows? Real Amish or not, the ad is misleading, but aren't all ads
misleading

RLM wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:44:59 -0800, bigjimpack wrote:


They dopuppy mills too


The big four legged animals are horses.

On Dec 30, 1:05 pm, ransley wrote:

On Dec 30, 9:21 am, "HeyBub" wrote:


An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

There must be alot of Amish electrician jokes.


Tell me all of them you know except the one about how many it takes to
screw in a light bulb.



You mean THIS one? TWO.

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/lightbulb.gif

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
....
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

--

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.
They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.
What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either. (the
area where I grew up had a small but noticeable Amish/Mennonite
population.) FWIW the Amish are probably *more* German than I.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:17:36 -0600, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:21:21 -0600, HeyBub wrote:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx

They must subscriber to the notion that it is a sin to let a sucker keep
his money.

The advertizing/marketting company is, to the best of my knowledge,
not Amish.
They are contracted to supply the "mantles"

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:48:43 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?
Likely as many germans as Amish.

It is not, regardless what the media may report, the "norm".

MOST are very loving husbands and fathers.

On Dec 30, 3:59*pm, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:44:59 -0800, bigjimpack wrote:
They dopuppy mills too

The big four legged animals are horses.



On Dec 30, 1:05*pm, ransley wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/....

There must be alot of Amish electrician jokes.

Tell me all of them you know except the one about how many it takes to
screw in a light bulb.

Did you hear about the Amish Flu?
You get a little hoarse, and also a little buggy.

Q: What goes clip-clop clip-clop clip-clop bang clip-clop clip-clop
clip-clop?
A: An Amish driveby shooting.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:04:58 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx



Well, obviously... the heater is electric. What would Amish know about
electric heaters?

That said, there is a store near me that sells Amish-made furniture; I'm
tempted to buy some because it looks pretty close to what I would make
myself should I have the time/tools/motivation to do so. Visiting there
and then a well known general furniture store immediately afterwards
confirmed that sometimes, yes, you do get what you pay for (and paying
2x the price to get better quality is not always that bad a deal.)

nate

Lets clear up one common misunderstanding. Amish DO use electricity.
They just dont connect to the power grid (electric company). They use
gasoline powered generators, car batteries, and other sources to
create their own electricity. I know this because I have Amish
neighbors and I am friendly with them. I know one Amishman who runs
an entire dairy milking operation, complete with power milking vacuum
system, refrigerated bulk tank, and even has a 12 volt lighting system
in the barn. The entire system is powererd by a 14HP Briggs garden
tractor engine. The guy built all of it himself. The engine connects
to a slip belt clutch, then to a car generator and 12V car battery,
which runs all the lights and fans and the bulk tank paddle that stirs
the milk. The same engine has another lever to activate a car air
conditioning compressor, which cools the bulk tank, and on one
occasion he froze the milk by accident. Then the same engine powers
the vacuum pump for doing the milking. The guy built this all from
junk car parts and scrap metal, and it's pretty amazing how it all
works and works well. He also runs power tools using an inverter, and
has a CB radio connected to the battery to talk to other Amish
neighbors.

They dont connect to the power grid, but they are very ingenious and
do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it does all work,
and works well, the guy spends more per month on gasoline than it
would cost to have electricity from the electric company, or at least
he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse drawn
buggy. By law they are required to have headlights and taillights on
public roads. Their batteries get weak on long trips, so he's
designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to recharge the
battery. He also has a CB radio in his buggy.

Another guy has a complete sawmill setup, which is more like a modern
factory than just a backyard mill. The whole thing is run with two
diesel semi truck engines. There are two buildings. One saws the
logs into boards. The other building planes and finishes the lumber.
Each building has it's own engine, and a series of belts and pulleys
that run each machine.

I find them pretty amazing and very intelligent people, even if they
are different. Like the guy with the powered barn. He has lights in
the barn, but is not allowed to use them in the house. The house uses
coleman lanterns and oil lamps, and they heat their hot water outside
in a homemade wood fired heater, and have to carry the water indoors
with pails. Yet this same guy is allowed to have a modern propane
water heater in the barn, but not in the house.

Robert wrote:

I find them pretty amazing and very intelligent people, even if they
are different. Like the guy with the powered barn. He has lights in
the barn, but is not allowed to use them in the house. The house uses
coleman lanterns and oil lamps, and they heat their hot water outside
in a homemade wood fired heater, and have to carry the water indoors
with pails. Yet this same guy is allowed to have a modern propane
water heater in the barn, but not in the house.

It's okay to fool God.

Consider the observant Jew's understanding that flipping an electric switch
is akin to starting a fire and starting a fire is prohibited on the Sabbath.
So, what's an observant Jew in Israel do if he lives on the 27th floor of a
high-rise and wants to attend the synagogue on the Sabbath? Walk down (then
back up) 27 flights of stairs? Don't buy an apartment that high up?

No, there's the "Sabbath Switch." On Friday afternoon, somebody flips the
switch. Thereafter, the elevator cycles continually, stopping on every
floor. The apartment dweller merely waits patiently and eventually the
elevator will arrive and carry him to the lobby.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.
They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.
What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.

On Dec 31, 12:37*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Robert wrote:

I find them pretty amazing and very intelligent people, even if they
are different. *Like the guy with the powered barn. *He has lights in
the barn, but is not allowed to use them in the house. *The house uses
coleman lanterns and oil lamps, and they heat their hot water outside
in a homemade wood fired heater, and have to carry the water indoors
with pails. *Yet this same guy is allowed to have a modern propane
water heater in the barn, but not in the house.

It's okay to fool God.

Consider the observant Jew's understanding that flipping an electric switch
is akin to starting a fire and starting a fire is prohibited on the Sabbath.
So, what's an observant Jew in Israel do if he lives on the 27th floor of a
high-rise and wants to attend the synagogue on the Sabbath? Walk down (then
back up) 27 flights of stairs? Don't buy an apartment that high up?

No, there's the "Sabbath Switch." On Friday afternoon, somebody flips the
switch. Thereafter, the elevator cycles continually, stopping on every
floor. The apartment dweller merely waits patiently and eventually the
elevator will arrive and carry him to the lobby.

Having grown up (physically) in NYC, and having many, many friends and
relatives that lived in apartment buildings, I can truthfully say that
I have never heard of a "Sabbath Switch". I also don't ever recall
having an elevator stop on every floor, every Saturday.

Maybe there were never any Jews in these buildings? I think not.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:44:26 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:48:43 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?
Likely as many germans as Amish.

It is not, regardless what the media may report, the "norm".

MOST are very loving husbands and fathers.

It's a religious cult, and these are part of their belief system.
Women and children are property, and it is considered a good thing to
beat them regularly. Gods will, ya know!

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.


Baloney! It doesn't get much press because it doesn't happen that much.

Cheri

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:44:26 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:48:43 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?
Likely as many germans as Amish.

It is not, regardless what the media may report, the "norm".

MOST are very loving husbands and fathers.

It's a religious cult, and these are part of their belief system.
Women and children are property, and it is considered a good thing to
beat them regularly. Gods will, ya know!

That is not true.

Cheri

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:03:43 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.


Baloney! It doesn't get much press because it doesn't happen that much.

Cheri

So you are saying you are aware that it happens?

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:04:28 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:44:26 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:48:43 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Better,
smoother finishes. Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?
Likely as many germans as Amish.

It is not, regardless what the media may report, the "norm".

MOST are very loving husbands and fathers.

It's a religious cult, and these are part of their belief system.
Women and children are property, and it is considered a good thing to
beat them regularly. Gods will, ya know!

That is not true.

Cheri


Cite?

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:03:43 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German
ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to
how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.


Baloney! It doesn't get much press because it doesn't happen that much.

Cheri

So you are saying you are aware that it happens?

Of course it happens, just as it's happened around the world since time
began, but it's not the norm, anymore than it's the norm for men to be
wife/child beaters just because some of them are.

Cheri

On 12/30/2008 7:21 AM HeyBub spake thus:

An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...iHRZ5ZFIg.cspx

My neighbor got 2 of these heaters, sent as a gift by her mother.

She was all excited about them before they arrived, looking forward to
being warm afterwards. Boy, was she disappointed.

They're totally useless.

By the way, regarding the claims of craftsmanship made in those ads:
"hand-rubbed" my ass! The cabinets are obviously sprayed with lacquer or
just varnished.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

DerbyDad03 wrote:

It's okay to fool God.

Consider the observant Jew's understanding that flipping an electric
switch is akin to starting a fire and starting a fire is prohibited
on the Sabbath. So, what's an observant Jew in Israel do if he lives
on the 27th floor of a high-rise and wants to attend the synagogue
on the Sabbath? Walk down (then back up) 27 flights of stairs? Don't
buy an apartment that high up?

No, there's the "Sabbath Switch." On Friday afternoon, somebody
flips the switch. Thereafter, the elevator cycles continually,
stopping on every floor. The apartment dweller merely waits
patiently and eventually the elevator will arrive and carry him to
the lobby.

Having grown up (physically) in NYC, and having many, many friends and
relatives that lived in apartment buildings, I can truthfully say that
I have never heard of a "Sabbath Switch". I also don't ever recall
having an elevator stop on every floor, every Saturday.

Maybe there were never any Jews in these buildings? I think not.

Your part of Harlem may not have had many Orthodox Jews.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:05:58 -0800, Cheri wrote:
wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:03:43 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German
ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to
how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.


Baloney! It doesn't get much press because it doesn't happen that much.

Cheri

So you are saying you are aware that it happens?

Of course it happens, just as it's happened around the world since time
began, but it's not the norm, anymore than it's the norm for men to be
wife/child beaters just because some of them are.

Cheri


going way off topic--- it depends on how seriously they take their
religion. In christianity, as set down 1600 years ago, women are
property and children are disposable.

On 12/31/2008 9:17 AM Robert spake thus:

They [the Amish] dont connect to the power grid, but they are very
ingenious and do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it
does all work, and works well, the guy spends more per month on
gasoline than it would cost to have electricity from the electric
company, or at least he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse drawn
buggy. By law they are required to have headlights and taillights on
public roads. Their batteries get weak on long trips, so he's
designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to recharge the
battery. He also has a CB radio in his buggy.

What an odd set of strictures these people saddle themselves with: it's
OK to use a gasoline engine to power a diary operation (though not
inside lights), but not OK to use that same engine to power their
buggies. WTF??!?

Yet another illustration of how useless and ridiculous religion is.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Having grown up (physically) in NYC, and having many, many friends and
relatives that lived in apartment buildings, I can truthfully say that
I have never heard of a "Sabbath Switch". I also don't ever recall
having an elevator stop on every floor, every Saturday.

Maybe there were never any Jews in these buildings? I think not.

Many cooking stoves also have a Sabbath mode. It is OK to adjust the
temperature, but not to start the fire.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:05:58 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:03:43 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German
ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to
how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?


Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.


Baloney! It doesn't get much press because it doesn't happen that much.

Cheri

So you are saying you are aware that it happens?

Of course it happens, just as it's happened around the world since time
began, but it's not the norm, anymore than it's the norm for men to be
wife/child beaters just because some of them are.

Cheri


It's a religious cult, and this behavior is part of their belief
system. Women and children are property, and it is considered a good
thing to beat them regularly. Gods will, ya know!

On Dec 30, 12:24�pm, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

I've been amused by this. �When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. �Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. �They are good at woodwork.

after a local problem where gasoline accidently got mixed in kerosene
which amish use local news said faxes were going out to amish.

turns out the local amish often have faxes, and phone in their barns.
its not allowed in their homes..if to do their job they are allowed to
use computers at their place of employment

Rogers ohio has a big flea market, local amish use electronic scales,
and such to sell goods

wrote in message
turns out the local amish often have faxes, and phone in their barns.
its not allowed in their homes..if to do their job they are allowed to
use computers at their place of employment

Rogers ohio has a big flea market, local amish use electronic scales,
and such to sell goods

************************************************** *********

They also use generators for electricity for tools and such. As long as
they are not on the grid they are OK. Sounds like a little modern
concessions are slipping in to make a living.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/31/2008 9:17 AM Robert spake thus:

They [the Amish] dont connect to the power grid, but they are very
ingenious and do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it
does all work, and works well, the guy spends more per month on
gasoline than it would cost to have electricity from the electric
company, or at least he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse
drawn buggy. By law they are required to have headlights and
taillights on public roads. Their batteries get weak on long trips,
so he's designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to
recharge the battery. He also has a CB radio in his buggy.

What an odd set of strictures these people saddle themselves with:
it's OK to use a gasoline engine to power a diary operation (though
not inside lights), but not OK to use that same engine to power their
buggies. WTF??!?

Yet another illustration of how useless and ridiculous religion is.

To you, maybe. But have you ever know a crossword-puzzle devotee?

If so, you known they're not satisfied with the one in TV Guide - they want
the Sunday New York Times puzzle! Then they try to fill it out in Latin!

So it is with the observant Jew or the devout of any religion; these people
get a deep satisfaction out of doing, to the best of their ability, what
they think God wants them to do. To them, their actions are not burdens,
they are a sense of joy and satisfaction. It's the difference between
building a bit of furniture from particle board or crafting that same
furniture out of Teak.

Sometimes just asking the question is enlightening. Here's an example.

The Bible tells the Jews there are seven birds that shall not be eaten, but
is silent on those permitted. The rabbis tried to figure out, by extension,
what birds were kosher and what were not by trying to discover a common
characteristic of the prohibited ones. Some on the list had two toes forward
and two toes back - but not all. Some on the list were carrion eaters - but
not all. Finally the rabbis just gave up and decided those birds
traditionally used in the Temple were permitted: Quail, pigeons, chickens,
etc.

For a thousand years, every Jew on the planet knew what birds were ritually
edible and which were not.

Columbus set sail for the New World the day after the Jews were officially
expelled from Spain. Columbus's chief navigator was, himself, Jewish, as
were some members of the crews. Point is, Jews were early in the New World.

What did they find?

Turkeys*.

Is a turkey more like a chicken or more like a buzzard? Letters went back
and forth between the Jewish settlers of the New World and the Sages of the
generation in the Old World. It was finally decided, after much debate, that
an observant Jew may gobble a turkey.

Another couple of hundred years go by.

Penguins.

The question on penguins is still open.

To some, this debate is borderline silly. But the intellectual horsepower
involved focuses the mind and hones the logical skills. So much so that the
Jews - comprising less than 1% of the world's population - have earned
almost a quarter of the Nobel Prizes.

--------
* The Hebrew word for "peacock" is "tukki" (think tail display).

On Dec 30, 4:05 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:24 pm, Frank wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-workingAmish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by theAmish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made byAmishcraftsmen.Amishhave nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

I've been amused by this. When I drive throughAmishcountry around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. They are good at woodwork.

Also understand they do not like their pictures taken.

Then who are all of those bearded guys making the wooden mantles in
the commercial?


Professional models of course....

A young Amish model named Gretchen,
Bragged "Bullemia keeps me so fetchin'.
Perhaps exercise,
Would slim down my thighs,
But I save lots of time by just retchin'."

Jeff

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:14:28 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 12/31/2008 9:17 AM Robert spake thus:

They [the Amish] dont connect to the power grid, but they are very
ingenious and do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it
does all work, and works well, the guy spends more per month on
gasoline than it would cost to have electricity from the electric
company, or at least he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse drawn
buggy. By law they are required to have headlights and taillights on
public roads. Their batteries get weak on long trips, so he's
designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to recharge the
battery. He also has a CB radio in his buggy.

What an odd set of strictures these people saddle themselves with: it's
OK to use a gasoline engine to power a diary operation (though not
inside lights), but not OK to use that same engine to power their
buggies. WTF??!?

Yet another illustration of how useless and ridiculous religion is.

In some ways I agree with you, but because I am good friends with
them, and they are nice people, I have asked them outright why they do
some of these things.

As far as electricity, they are not allowed to be connected to the
grid. They are meant to survive without being connected to the
outside world. Well, I explained to them that using gasoline connects
them to the outside world because they cant make their own. The
answer I got was that it's just the rules, and if they could not get
gas, they would make a wood powered steam engine.

They CAN use more modern stuff for business, but NOT for personal use.

Here's some more facts that are bizarre.

They can drive a tractor, but not a car or truck. They can not OWN
the tractor, except for a few select members, who are then made to do
all the tractor work, snow plowing, etc for the whole community.

They can have a phone, as long as it's outside the home (usually in a
small 4 foot square shack), but Amish businesses can have it in their
barn or work building with special permission.

If they rent a house and it has electricity, they can use it, but it
must be used minimally.

To get water out of their well, they can use either a windmill, or a
gas powered air compressor, which pumps air into a 500 or 1000 gallon
propane tank. That air pushes water up the well pipes, and lasts for
hours with the large air tank.

When they build a new house, they use common lumberyard materials
including foam and fiberglass insulation. They install wiring cables
in most of the houses, for resale value, but the boxes are not
installed. There is a map showing the location of the wires.

They do use banks and get loans, and I know several of them went to
deep in debt and had to foreclose their farm.

They do not use the local police for any internal problems (with other
amish), but will contact the police if non amish people try to harm
them. However they generally avoid courts.

They do use doctors and hospitals for themselves, but for their
animals they have their own Amish vet, who is not a college educated
or licensed vet.

They can use a gas powered rotatiller for theier lawn or pasture, but
not for their food garden. For some reason it will affect their food
(a religion thing). The garden must be tilled by human or animal
power.

They can ride in anyone's car, but can not own a car or drive one.

Yes, a lot of this dont make much sense and I agree......
Every community has a little different rules too. The ones in my area
are much less strict than soem others. Yet some others (but few)
allow driving cars, but not ownership.