On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 06:11:47 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..
Couple of months ago I bought a pair of Dockers from Casual Male for $50
or so. A few weeks later I bought a pair of George brand slacks at
WalMart for $20. The details of the two are identical. Even some pocket
stitching and so forth is identical. Difference is the label and price
tag.

Many years ago I worked briefly for Catalina Swimwear (which was an
expensive brand at the time) the same swim suits and sportswear also went
out under a different label and were cheaper. Same stuff, different price.

Cheri

Cites?

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 06:11:47 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .
Couple of months ago I bought a pair of Dockers from Casual Male for $50
or so. A few weeks later I bought a pair of George brand slacks at
WalMart for $20. The details of the two are identical. Even some
pocket
stitching and so forth is identical. Difference is the label and price
tag.

Many years ago I worked briefly for Catalina Swimwear (which was an
expensive brand at the time) the same swim suits and sportswear also went
out under a different label and were cheaper. Same stuff, different price.

Cheri

Cites?

Why don't you believe her? I've been in manufacturing for the past 45
years. Companies I've worked for did the same exact thing, selling under
different labels. Products include heaters, air conditioners (both
residential and industrial), frozen dinners, automobile parts and more.
This is very common knowledge. Industrial unit heaters we made under three
names. We even put Westinghouse labels on them and use GE and Century motors
on them. How about this: Ford and Mercury. Olds and Pontiac, Chrysler and
Mitsubishi. Kenmore and every brand imaginable. Cites my ass, I've seen it
done!

On Jan 3, 7:12*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 06:11:47 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .
Couple of months ago I bought a pair of Dockers from Casual Male for $50
or so. *A few weeks later I bought a pair of George brand slacks at
WalMart for $20. *The details of the two are identical. *Even some
pocket
stitching and so forth is identical. Difference is the label and price
tag.

Many years ago I worked briefly for Catalina Swimwear (which was an
expensive brand at the time) the same swim suits and sportswear also went
out under a different label and were cheaper. Same stuff, different price.

Cheri

Cites?

Why don't you believe her? *I've been in manufacturing for the past 45
years. Companies I've worked for did the same exact thing, selling under
different labels. *Products include heaters, air conditioners (both
residential and industrial), frozen dinners, automobile parts and more.
This is very common knowledge. Industrial unit heaters we made under three
names. We even put Westinghouse labels on them and use GE and Century motors
on them. *How about this: Ford and Mercury. Olds and Pontiac, Chrysler and
Mitsubishi. *Kenmore and every brand imaginable. *Cites my ass, I've seen it
done!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exactly. Just look to the big 3 automakers. Same car, different name
(Chev, Pontiac), different price. Only difference was a bit of trim
change.

Harry K

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:12:27 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 06:11:47 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..
Couple of months ago I bought a pair of Dockers from Casual Male for $50
or so. A few weeks later I bought a pair of George brand slacks at
WalMart for $20. The details of the two are identical. Even some
pocket
stitching and so forth is identical. Difference is the label and price
tag.

Many years ago I worked briefly for Catalina Swimwear (which was an
expensive brand at the time) the same swim suits and sportswear also went
out under a different label and were cheaper. Same stuff, different price.

Cheri

Cites?

Why don't you believe her? I've been in manufacturing for the past 45
years. Companies I've worked for did the same exact thing, selling under
different labels. Products include heaters, air conditioners (both
residential and industrial), frozen dinners, automobile parts and more.
This is very common knowledge. Industrial unit heaters we made under three
names. We even put Westinghouse labels on them and use GE and Century motors
on them. How about this: Ford and Mercury. Olds and Pontiac, Chrysler and
Mitsubishi. Kenmore and every brand imaginable. Cites my ass, I've seen it
done!

VERY common occurence, particularly since NO-ONE makes anything in
America anymore. Several companies buy the same product from the same
offshore manufacturer and have their "brand" put on it. One brand is
upscale, and sells for more than the other "lowscale" brand.

Worse yet, an "upscale" brand has an offshore (usually Chinese)
company make something for them with their namee on it, to their
design, and said offshore manufacturer sells "excess production" to
other resellers at reduced cost - and opens another factory to produce
the "over-runs"

I've been in that situation, where computer cases designed by the
company I worked for, and built with injection molds we paid for, were
sold in "asian sources computing" magazine for less than half our
cost, before we even got our first shipment.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:12:27 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 06:11:47 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..
Couple of months ago I bought a pair of Dockers from Casual Male for $50
or so. A few weeks later I bought a pair of George brand slacks at
WalMart for $20. The details of the two are identical. Even some
pocket
stitching and so forth is identical. Difference is the label and price
tag.

Many years ago I worked briefly for Catalina Swimwear (which was an
expensive brand at the time) the same swim suits and sportswear also went
out under a different label and were cheaper. Same stuff, different price.

Cheri

Cites?

Why don't you believe her?

Just presenting her with a request to meet the same standards to which
she holds others.

On Dec 30 2008, 10:21*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

Plus
It is a piece of ****
It puts out the same amount of heat in btus per wattage (or less) than
a simple ceramic heater
It's all commercial hype

ANYTHING electric is 100% efficient and one is no better than another
at conveying heat
Sure, heaters with a fan help to dissipate the heat better in the air
but overall when it comes to electric heaters there is no efficiency
loss so buying an amish (yeah, right--I live in lancaster county and
amish are known to make the cheapest and worst houses and crafts for
simple minded tourists) heater is no better than one made in china
except you pay for a pretty facade that probably blocks heat output as
well

On Dec 31 2008, 12:17*pm, Robert wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:04:58 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:





HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish..

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/....

Well, obviously... the heater is electric. *What would Amish know about
electric heaters?

That said, there is a store near me that sells Amish-made furniture; I'm
tempted to buy some because it looks pretty close to what I would make
myself should I have the time/tools/motivation to do so. *Visiting there
and then a well known general furniture store immediately afterwards
confirmed that sometimes, yes, you do get what you pay for (and paying
2x the price to get better quality is not always that bad a deal.)

nate

Lets clear up one common misunderstanding. *Amish DO use electricity.
They just dont connect to the power grid (electric company). *They use
gasoline powered generators, car batteries, and other sources to
create their own electricity. *I know this because I have Amish
neighbors and I am friendly with them. *I know one Amishman who runs
an entire dairy milking operation, complete with power milking vacuum
system, refrigerated bulk tank, and even has a 12 volt lighting system
in the barn. *The entire system is powererd by a 14HP Briggs garden
tractor engine. *The guy built all of it himself. *The engine connects
to a slip belt clutch, then to a car generator and 12V car battery,
which runs all the lights and fans and the bulk tank paddle that stirs
the milk. *The same engine has another lever to activate a car air
conditioning compressor, which cools the bulk tank, and on one
occasion he froze the milk by accident. *Then the same engine powers
the vacuum pump for doing the milking. *The guy built this all from
junk car parts and scrap metal, and it's pretty amazing how it all
works and works well. *He also runs power tools using an inverter, and
has a CB radio connected to the battery to talk to other Amish
neighbors. *

They dont connect to the power grid, but they are very ingenious and
do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it does all work,
and works well, the guy spends more per month on gasoline than it
would cost to have electricity from the electric company, or at least
he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse drawn
buggy. *By law they are required to have headlights and taillights on
public roads. *Their batteries get weak on long trips, so he's
designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to recharge the
battery. *He also has a CB radio in his buggy. *

Another guy has a complete sawmill setup, which is more like a modern
factory than just a backyard mill. *The whole thing is run with two
diesel semi truck engines. *There are two buildings. *One saws the
logs into boards. *The other building planes and finishes the lumber.
Each building has it's own engine, and a series of belts and pulleys
that run each machine.

I find them pretty amazing and very intelligent people, even if they
are different. *Like the guy with the powered barn. *He has lights in
the barn, but is not allowed to use them in the house. *The house uses
coleman lanterns and oil lamps, and they heat their hot water outside
in a homemade wood fired heater, and have to carry the water indoors
with pails. *Yet this same guy is allowed to have a modern propane
water heater in the barn, but not in the house.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact you find them intelligent means you have not had much contact
with them
there are a few but very few who have IQs above room temperature

Ask him sometime WHY he believes what he believes--they stutter and
stammer but
cannot answer

Here
They use 30kw gensets in their barns as they run at a lower speed and
diesel is cheaper
and their barns are huge and need lots of power
They wont drive a car but hire people to do it for them and they like
that as
it makes them feel special--like a movie star and they DO feel above
the rest of society here in lancaster county where they live and laugh
at the tourists as they fleece them for their money

I ought to know ===sadly, my father is a mennonite amish type
and has refused to talk to me for 30 years as I wont go to his church
Its a cult --no more-no less

On Dec 30 2008, 4:05*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 30, 12:24*pm, Frank wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/....

I've been amused by this. *When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. *Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. *They are good at woodwork.

Also understand they do not like their pictures taken.

Then who are all of those bearded guys making the wooden mantles in
the commercial?

hahah
Do you see how they are using hammers and nails on finished woodwork
It is all TV hype
They pack the units and place the heaters into the wooden units before
shipment

The amish part is simply a ploy to get suckers to buy thinking amish
make good products
(here's a clue--come to my county--amish country--and ask a general
slice of craftsman about the quality of amish craftsmanship
you will get an earful

they are always being fined and sued for inferior workmanship no
houses here

On Feb 5, 9:25*pm, Joe wrote:
On Dec 30 2008, 4:05*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Dec 30, 12:24*pm, Frank wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

I've been amused by this. *When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. *Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. *They are good at woodwork.

Also understand they do not like their pictures taken.

Then who are all of those bearded guys making the wooden mantles in
the commercial?

hahah
Do you see how they are using hammers and nails on finished woodwork
It is all TV hype
They pack the units and place the heaters into the wooden units before
shipment

The amish part is simply a ploy to get suckers to buy thinking amish
make good products
(here's a clue--come to my county--amish country--and ask a general
slice of craftsman about the quality of amish craftsmanship
you will get an earful

they are always being fined and sued for inferior workmanship no
houses here- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flat hat butchers!

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:13:44 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 31 2008, 12:58Â*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:44:26 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:48:43 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
...
... They are good at woodwork.

They're just people with pretty much the general range of aptitudes of
any other group...that includes there are good eggs and "not so much"
although the preponderance tends to be a little lower.

What they do seem to have is a sense of quality and durability that
doesn't seem to be common in general consumer goods. Â*I'm not saying
that EVERY Amish-made product is superior to the one you buy in a
department store, but the furniture I've seen is definitely superior -
all solid woods, none of that veneer over chipboard crap. Â*Better,
smoother finishes. Â*Paneled doors are really paneled doors, not a glued
up panel routed to look like one. Â*etc. etc. etc.

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?
Likely as many germans as Amish.

It is not, regardless what the media may report, the "norm".

MOST are very loving husbands and fathers.

It's a religiouscult, and these are part of their belief system.
Women and children are property, and it is considered a good thing to
beat them regularly. Gods will, ya know!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are right even if you are being facetious(sp)

here is a story of how the mennonites work in shunning others:
For more than three decades since he was excommunicated by a small,
conservative Mennonite sect, effectively severing his relationship
with his wife and six children, Robert Bear has tried a lot of things
to get his family back.

He has filed a civil lawsuit and gotten arrested repeatedly in what he
says is a strategy to discredit the Reformed Mennonite Church and undo
the excommunication, called €œshunning.€� Once, he even picked up his
wife in his arms at a market and carried her to his truck before he
was arrested on assault and kidnapping charges.

But Bear, a strapping 73-year-old who lives alone in a small, cedar-
sided cabin amid Cumberland Countys farm fields, has never repented
to the church to undo the shunning, and said he does not regret his
actions.

€œI wish I had never gotten into (the sect),€� said Bear, a retired
potato farmer who claims 300 years of Mennonite ancestors. €œBut you
get into it and the only way you get out is to die.€�

Despite saying repeatedly in the past that he would end his struggle,
he has continued: On Tuesday, Bear avoided jail time on a trespassing
charge by promising a Cumberland County judge that he would no longer
stage protests of the church at a produce market primarily owned by a
church elder.

Neither the employees nor their attorney, Michael Bangs, were
relieved. They described a threatening situation in which Bear went
into a tirade, shouting through a bullhorn. Bear, who has protested
there repeatedly, denied being threatening or using a bullhorn.

Messages left this week for the church elder, Glenn Gross, who is also
Bears brother-in-law, were not returned. In the past, Gross has said
that Bear earned the shunning by refusing to change his interpretation
of the Scriptures.

Bear was first shunned in 1964 when he questioned church doctrine, but
was accepted back. In 1972, he was shunned a second time, and decided
not to repent on principle.

He now calls the church a €œcult€� that controls its members through
shunning and depriving men of their wives.

Shunning, a practice designed to shame a member into repenting, has
been dropped by most Mennonite sects, said Donald B. Kraybill, senior
fellow at the Young Center for Anabaptist and Pietist Groups at
Elizabethtown College.

The Reformed Mennonite Church, which formed in 1812 out of the
Lancaster Mennonite Church, has had trouble keeping younger members
and has withered to just 275 members in the United States, Kraybill
said.

Bears life since his shunning has been a litany of arrests and court
hearings, a strategy that Bear uses to draw attention to his fight
against the church. Since the 1970s, he has sent rambling, vitriolic
letters to many people connected to his cases, prompting some to fear
him.

The last time he tried to talk to his wife, about six or seven years
ago, she told him to €œgo to hell€� and his oldest son, whose house is
within view of Bears cabin, thinks he is mentally ill, Bear said.

€œI think everyone would like to prove that Im mentally ill,€� Bear
said, €œand (sanitys) the only thing I have left.€�

Telephone numbers could not be confirmed for Bears son or his wife
and they could not be reached for comment.

An attorney who assisted Bear when he successfully represented himself
in 1979 against kidnapping and assault charges said he wishes that
Bear could have moved past the church.

€œHes been obsessed,€� said the attorney, Taylor Andrews. €œHis
obsession to bring down the church and just be so preoccupied with
those that have acted against him I think has deprived him of what
could be the joys of life.€�

Andrews described Bear as a €œvery decent, respectful, genteel
individual€� who does not present a physical threat, but acknowledges
that many have seen him as being dangerous.

Bear said he still loves his wife and never remarried because he does
not believe in divorce. His children are no longer members of the
church, he said, but he describes his bond with them as €œbroken.€�

Over the years, Bear has pledged to give up his fight against the
church. He later reconsidered, saying that he wanted to fight for
others who were also shunned €œas I wished someone would have done for
me.€�

€œWhen you see what it does to marriages and families,€� Bear said, €œwho
would want to have it done to someone else?€�

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1879...onite-sect-for



I live in lancaster county--home of amish and mennonites and tradesmen
of all types KNOW
--ask any of them--that amish and mennonite built homes are cut-
cornered to make the highest profit margines
Mennonites and Amish can almost never get public works projects due to
the codes and they know they cant fleece inspectors like they can the
general public

also
amish and mennonites pay FAR FAR less to their employees than non cult
firms as a whole and
treat them like cattle or worse

they are evil to the core and it isnt just me--dont ask the idiot
tourists from NYC and Joozy who come to see the amish
Ask the old timers who have had to deal with the amish and mennonites
here in this county and you will get the same disdain from nearly all
of them

------
They are NOT a religion but a cult that lives for money and power in
this county

-----
dbcooper3390 at yahoo dot come


As a Mennonite myself I'd say you are tarring with an awful wide
brush. Yes, there ARE some splinter groups that are as you describe
them, just as there are some splinter Mormon groups that have 15
wives, and some Catholic priests who abuse little boys, and some
atheists who are mass murderers, some Baptists are Jimmy and Tammy
Baker. Etc Etc.

Up here in Waterloo County, Ontario, there are MANY very progressive
firms that are Mennonite owned. Some are among the very best companies
to work for.

There are also quite a few businesses run by very conservative
"mennonites" in the area who basically hire only their own. The one
group in particular still practices "shunning" and do not eat with
"outsiders". They are known as shrewd businessmen - many drink hard
cider and smoke cigars - and have phones in the shop (but not the
house), have computers and internet connections, and run everything
off a diesel generator.
Known locally as "the Mennonite Mafia" in jest.

Much of the BEST farmland in the area is mennonite owned and run, with
the "family farm" becoming almost predominently a Mennonite phenomenon
amongst the "factory farms"

And many of the most conservative are really and truly the "salt of
the earth"

As for international conscience, all you have to do is look at the
Mennonite Central Committee and MEDA (Mennonite Economic Development
Association), or MDS (Mennonite Disaster Service) who show up totally
unpaid volunteers after the worst disasters to help, clean up, and
rebuild. There are teams orking steadily in New Orleans even now,
helping those who have nothing and can not help themselves.

As aid organizations go, these 3 are among the top worldwide when it
comes to effectiveness - the percentage of total funds that get "to
the troups".
American and Canadian governments have for many years matched funds on
MANY relief projects with MCC in particular, with diaster relief going
to places like Rwanda, Eritrea, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, the Pacific
Sunami area, etc.

They ALWAYS have their own people "on the ground" to be sure relief
gets to the intended recipients instead of being funnelled into the
hands of crooked governments etc.

So PLEASE, take your Vitriol somewhere else.
Check your facts. Yes, like in any other barrel, there ARE a few bad
apples - but I'm sure the same can be said for your people, whoever
they happen to be.

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:16:58 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 30 2008, 10:21Â*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

Plus
It is a piece of ****
It puts out the same amount of heat in btus per wattage (or less) than
a simple ceramic heater
It's all commercial hype

ANYTHING electric is 100% efficient and one is no better than another
at conveying heat
Sure, heaters with a fan help to dissipate the heat better in the air
but overall when it comes to electric heaters there is no efficiency
loss so buying an amish (yeah, right--I live in lancaster county and
amish are known to make the cheapest and worst houses and crafts for
simple minded tourists) heater is no better than one made in china
except you pay for a pretty facade that probably blocks heat output as
well
The crafts for simple minded tourists are no worse than the cheesy
chinese souveniers sold anywhere else throught the United States of
America.

Try buying ANY other "american made" souvenier other than on a native
reservation (and even there a lot of it is from "away".

They also make some VERY high quality crafts.
You like quilts? Some of the very best in the world are pieced and
sewed by the Mennonite community, and many of the best of those are
donated and sold at the MCC (Mennonite Central Committee) anual relief
sale in New Hamburg Ontario the last? weekend in May every year.
There are several other sales around North America as well that raise
money for international disaster relief.

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:22:19 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 31 2008, 12:17Â*pm, Robert wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:04:58 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:





HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

Well, obviously... the heater is electric. Â*What would Amish know about
electric heaters?

That said, there is a store near me that sells Amish-made furniture; I'm
tempted to buy some because it looks pretty close to what I would make
myself should I have the time/tools/motivation to do so. Â*Visiting there
and then a well known general furniture store immediately afterwards
confirmed that sometimes, yes, you do get what you pay for (and paying
2x the price to get better quality is not always that bad a deal.)

nate

Lets clear up one common misunderstanding. Â*Amish DO use electricity.
They just dont connect to the power grid (electric company). Â*They use
gasoline powered generators, car batteries, and other sources to
create their own electricity. Â*I know this because I have Amish
neighbors and I am friendly with them. Â*I know one Amishman who runs
an entire dairy milking operation, complete with power milking vacuum
system, refrigerated bulk tank, and even has a 12 volt lighting system
in the barn. Â*The entire system is powererd by a 14HP Briggs garden
tractor engine. Â*The guy built all of it himself. Â*The engine connects
to a slip belt clutch, then to a car generator and 12V car battery,
which runs all the lights and fans and the bulk tank paddle that stirs
the milk. Â*The same engine has another lever to activate a car air
conditioning compressor, which cools the bulk tank, and on one
occasion he froze the milk by accident. Â*Then the same engine powers
the vacuum pump for doing the milking. Â*The guy built this all from
junk car parts and scrap metal, and it's pretty amazing how it all
works and works well. Â*He also runs power tools using an inverter, and
has a CB radio connected to the battery to talk to other Amish
neighbors. Â*

They dont connect to the power grid, but they are very ingenious and
do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it does all work,
and works well, the guy spends more per month on gasoline than it
would cost to have electricity from the electric company, or at least
he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse drawn
buggy. Â*By law they are required to have headlights and taillights on
public roads. Â*Their batteries get weak on long trips, so he's
designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to recharge the
battery. Â*He also has a CB radio in his buggy. Â*

Another guy has a complete sawmill setup, which is more like a modern
factory than just a backyard mill. Â*The whole thing is run with two
diesel semi truck engines. Â*There are two buildings. Â*One saws the
logs into boards. Â*The other building planes and finishes the lumber.
Each building has it's own engine, and a series of belts and pulleys
that run each machine.

I find them pretty amazing and very intelligent people, even if they
are different. Â*Like the guy with the powered barn. Â*He has lights in
the barn, but is not allowed to use them in the house. Â*The house uses
coleman lanterns and oil lamps, and they heat their hot water outside
in a homemade wood fired heater, and have to carry the water indoors
with pails. Â*Yet this same guy is allowed to have a modern propane
water heater in the barn, but not in the house.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The fact you find them intelligent means you have not had much contact
with them
there are a few but very few who have IQs above room temperature

Ask him sometime WHY he believes what he believes--they stutter and
stammer but
cannot answer

Here
They use 30kw gensets in their barns as they run at a lower speed and
diesel is cheaper
and their barns are huge and need lots of power
They wont drive a car but hire people to do it for them and they like
that as
it makes them feel special--like a movie star and they DO feel above
the rest of society here in lancaster county where they live and laugh
at the tourists as they fleece them for their money

I ought to know ===sadly, my father is a mennonite amish type
and has refused to talk to me for 30 years as I wont go to his church
Its a cult --no more-no less


With the vitriol boiling in your viens I figured you had some kind of
an axe to grind..

Go make peace with your Dad. To do so you will have to swallow your
pride and give him some respect - He's living HIS beliefs. You are
living yours.

Look for the good in people and you will find it.
Show the good in you and others (mabee even your father) will find it
too.

Perhaps the money from the tourists has corrupted a fair number from
Lancaster County - my ancestors left Hershey,Hammer Creek and Peoria
over 150 years ago.

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:33:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 5, 9:25Â*pm, Joe wrote:
On Dec 30 2008, 4:05Â*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Dec 30, 12:24Â*pm, Frank wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
An advert features an electric space heater made by hard-working Amish.

"But despite what the ad implies, these are not made by the Amish: They're
made in China. If you read the ad carefully, you realize that only the wood
mantle is made by Amish craftsmen. Amish have nothing to do with the
fireplace itself. "

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/loc...urmoney/story/...

I've been amused by this. Â*When I drive through Amish country around
here, it is easy to spot their farms and houses as they are the ones
with no electrical or phone service. Â*Also understand they do not like
their pictures taken. Â*They are good at woodwork.

Also understand they do not like their pictures taken.

Then who are all of those bearded guys making the wooden mantles in
the commercial?

hahah
Do you see how they are using hammers and nails on finished woodwork
It is all TV hype
They pack the units and place the heaters into the wooden units before
shipment

The amish part is simply a ploy to get suckers to buy thinking amish
make good products
(here's a clue--come to my county--amish country--and ask a general
slice of craftsman about the quality of amish craftsmanship
you will get an earful

they are always being fined and sued for inferior workmanship no
houses here- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Flat hat butchers!


Some of their furniture etc is "rustic", but that's what a LOT of
people want. It's solid, old fashioned, peasant fare.
Would I have the Amish build me a $500,000 suburban house? Or a
"french provincial" dining room st? Not likely, but some of the very
best high end construction in these parts is done by Mennonite workers
(some of them quite "conservative") working for a couple VERY well
respected Mennonite contractors .

So narrow your Tar Brush.

On Jan 1, 8:22*am, Robert wrote:
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:14:28 -0800, David Nebenzahl



wrote:
On 12/31/2008 9:17 AM Robert spake thus:

They [the Amish] dont connect to the power grid, but they are very
ingenious and do use electricity. As far as practicallity, while it
does all work, and works well, the guy spends more per month on
gasoline than it would cost to have electricity from the electric
company, or at least he was when gasoline was around $4 a gallon.

Now this came guy is working on a generator system for his horse drawn
buggy. *By law they are required to have headlights and taillights on
public roads. *Their batteries get weak on long trips, so he's
designing a generator that is powered from the wheels to recharge the
battery. *He also has a CB radio in his buggy. *

What an odd set of strictures these people saddle themselves with: it's
OK to use a gasoline engine to power a diary operation (though not
inside lights), but not OK to use that same engine to power their
buggies. WTF??!?

Yet another illustration of how useless and ridiculous religion is.

In some ways I agree with you, but because I am good friends with
them, and they are nice people, I have asked them outright why they do
some of these things.

As far as electricity, they are not allowed to be connected to the
grid. *They are meant to survive without being connected to the
outside world. *Well, I explained to them that using gasoline connects
them to the outside world because they cant make their own. *The
answer I got was that it's just the rules, and if they could not get
gas, they would make a wood powered steam engine.

They CAN use more modern stuff for business, but NOT for personal use.

Here's some more facts that are bizarre.

Why do you consider those facts "bizarre". I bet that they would
think that sitting at a desk, staring at a God-less computer hooked to
the internet while typing Amish tid-bits into a newsgroup about home
repairs would be ... well ... bizarre. I bet they would much rather
be out plowing a field with a horse.

You should open your mind to the whole spectrum that is humanity.


They can drive a tractor, but not a car or truck. *They can not OWN
the tractor, except for a few select members, who are then made to do
all the tractor work, snow plowing, etc for the whole community.

They can have a phone, as long as it's outside the home (usually in a
small 4 foot square shack), but Amish businesses can have it in their
barn or work building with special permission.

If they rent a house and it has electricity, they can use it, but it
must be used minimally.

To get water out of their well, they can use either a windmill, or a
gas powered air compressor, which pumps air into a 500 or 1000 gallon
propane tank. *That air pushes water up the well pipes, and lasts for
hours with the large air tank.

When they build a new house, they use common lumberyard materials
including foam and fiberglass insulation. *They install wiring cables
in most of the houses, for resale value, but the boxes are not
installed. *There is a map showing the location of the wires.

They do use banks and get loans, and I know several of them went to
deep in debt and had to foreclose their farm.

They do not use the local police for any internal problems (with other
amish), but will contact the police if non amish people try to harm
them. *However they generally avoid courts.

They do use doctors and hospitals for themselves, but for their
animals they have their own Amish vet, who is not a college educated
or licensed vet.

They can use a gas powered rotatiller for theier lawn or pasture, but
not for their food garden. *For some reason it will affect their food
(a religion thing). *The garden must be tilled by human or animal
power.

They can ride in anyone's car, but can not own a car or drive one.

Yes, a lot of this dont make much sense and I agree......
Every community has a little different rules too. *The ones in my area
are much less strict than soem others. *Yet some others (but few)
allow driving cars, but not ownership.

On Jan 2, 6:36*am, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 21:34:29 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Dec 31 2008, 4:02?pm, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:05:58 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:03:43 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German
ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to
how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?

Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.

It doesn't get much press because portraying them as rustic romantics
is far more profitable for Hotels, bus tours, and the many other
businesses that benifit from tourism in Pennsyvania.

Baloney! It doesn't get much press because it doesn't happen that much.

Cheri

So you are saying you are aware that it happens?

Of course it happens, just as it's happened around the world since time
began, but it's not the norm, anymore than it's the norm for men to be
wife/child beaters just because some of them are.

Cheri

It's a religious cult, and this behavior is part of their belief
system. Women and children are property, and it is considered a good
thing to beat them regularly. Gods will, ya know!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cite?

http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2008/0...wing-up-amish/

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...g-the-amish-pa...

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...g-the-amish-pa...

You might also want to do a little googling on Amsih Animal cruelty.

The bottom line is that the whole sales pitch that romanticizes the
Amish as some sort of quaint and wonderful throwback to simpler and
more "genuine" times is fabricated. They just have better PR people
than the Hells Angels and the Taliban. The states where they live make
a LOT of money off that false image, so they aren't about to do
anything to hurt business. You won't find a lot of information because
they work very hard to supress it. They are a little harder to
infiltrate than the KKK, and look how long it took to take THAT
organization mostly apart.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This man know what he speaks as I was brought up in a Mennonite family
and know the Amish
and Mennonite dogma well
I wa 'shunned' and not able to speak to my own (adopted) mother for
20-30 years
due to not going to their church as was beaten into me repeatedly as a
child
to do so
....to the point of broken and damaged ears and hearing organs which
plague me to this day

Amish and Mennonites are only romanticized in my area (lanc county) as
they bring a lot of tourist dollars into the county. Not like it once
was but the Amish and Mennonites themselves have learned how to
capitalize on their mis-truths and the outsiders naivete

------

On Feb 27, 9:57*am, Jose wrote:
On Jan 2, 6:36*am, wrote:





On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 21:34:29 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Dec 31 2008, 4:02?pm, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:05:58 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:03:43 -0800, "Cheri"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:52:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:08:08 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:24 am, Frank wrote:

Of course I come from a fairly frugal family of mostly German
ancestry,
so the Amish and I probably have at least a little in common as to
how
we look at physical goods...

nate

Do Germans also beat their wives and children, and consider them
property?

Not that I'm aware, but I haven't heard that of the Amish either.