I have a combo gas/CO detector in my basement and it has never falsed.
I *do* have to remember to unplug it and take the battery out whenever
doing certain jobs though... was cleaning up some brake components and
apparently one little squirt of brakleen is enough to set it off...

nate

Steve Barker wrote:
yah and they're all junk. Most have to be disconnected because they give
false alarms constantly and run batteries down.

s


"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...
even though gas detectors have been standard
equipment in RVs for years.


.




--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
while you're at it, search for auto fatalities. Gonna quit driving also?

It's a matter of practical, safer alternatives. There are few
alternatives to autos, unless you live in a big city, but there are
plenty of safer alternatives to nat gas appliances / heating.
"safer" is debatable, and none of them work as well. You could make a
case for a ground loop heat pump for heating if you live somewhere where
that would be practical, but nothing beats a gas water heater or stove.


It's a "ground source" or "geothermal" heat pump, and they are practical
pretty much everywhere. There are several different ground loop
configurations (vertical, horizontal, trenched coil) that fit most any
site. They can readily do hot water as well. In areas of relatively
moderate temperatures, an air source heat pump is more economical.

yabbut, if you, say, live in a condo, you may not have any ground to put
one in...


Condos and apartments have been built with geothermal heat pumps too.
It's becoming more common now that people are paying more attention to
energy efficiency.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Steve Barker wrote:

Funny, you won't find an electric burner in a resturant. Maybe an
electric
grill, but never a skillet burner.


First off, you are wrong, secondly the reason most commercial cooking
equipment is gas is for economy due to the large amount of energy use in
a restaurant and the lower cost/BTU for gas, something that isn't a
factor in residential cooking.

You can do some things with an open flame that a hot element won't do. Wok
cooking was invented to conserve fuel by heating over a small group of
coals. You can use a gas flame, but they don't do well with electric
elements. Flat bottomed and electric woks are just a *******ization, not
even a distant cousin of a real hammered carbon steel wok.

If you want to singe pin feathers on poultry, open flame is the way to go.
Mashed potatoes can be made with any heat source.

Pete C. wrote:

I still find it incredible that they have required smoke detectors for
years, and now CO detectors, but there are still no requirements for
residential gas detectors, even though gas detectors have been
standard equipment in RVs for years.


Most homes come equipped with multiple natural gas detection devices.

They're called noses.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Steve Barker wrote:

Funny, you won't find an electric burner in a resturant. Maybe an
electric
grill, but never a skillet burner.


First off, you are wrong, secondly the reason most commercial cooking
equipment is gas is for economy due to the large amount of energy use in
a restaurant and the lower cost/BTU for gas, something that isn't a
factor in residential cooking.

You can do some things with an open flame that a hot element won't do. Wok
cooking was invented to conserve fuel by heating over a small group of
coals. You can use a gas flame, but they don't do well with electric
elements. Flat bottomed and electric woks are just a *******ization, not
even a distant cousin of a real hammered carbon steel wok.

Actually, you can heat a wok more efficiently with an electric source
than with a gas source. A great deal of the BTUs from a gas wok burner
zip right past the sides of the wok and only heat the kitchen.


If you want to singe pin feathers on poultry, open flame is the way to go.
Mashed potatoes can be made with any heat source.

A handheld torch like a Bernz-O-Matic TS4000 will singe those feathers
quite nicely as well as brulee your creme brulee and many other culinary
tasks. Yes, it's gas, but a 16oz cylinder isn't going to level your
house.

AMEN! good answer.

s


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Pete C. wrote:

I still find it incredible that they have required smoke detectors for
years, and now CO detectors, but there are still no requirements for
residential gas detectors, even though gas detectors have been
standard equipment in RVs for years.


Most homes come equipped with multiple natural gas detection devices.

They're called noses.

Steve Barker wrote:

AMEN! good answer.


Bad answer. Noses detect smoke too, yet we need smoke detectors since
the nose is ineffective when the person it's attached to is unconscious.



s

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Pete C. wrote:

I still find it incredible that they have required smoke detectors for
years, and now CO detectors, but there are still no requirements for
residential gas detectors, even though gas detectors have been
standard equipment in RVs for years.


Most homes come equipped with multiple natural gas detection devices.

They're called noses.

"Pete C." wrote in message

Actually, you can heat a wok more efficiently with an electric source
than with a gas source. A great deal of the BTUs from a gas wok burner
zip right past the sides of the wok and only heat the kitchen.


How does that happen? Take a typical electric element and it is about 6" to
8" in diameter. A wok has a rounded bottom and makes contact at one tiny
point. Where is the efficiency? My one gas burner has a nice hot 3"
diameter flame that heats the base of a wok very well.

Using a wok is one reason I got rid of the electric range shortly after
moving here.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message

Actually, you can heat a wok more efficiently with an electric source
than with a gas source. A great deal of the BTUs from a gas wok burner
zip right past the sides of the wok and only heat the kitchen.


How does that happen? Take a typical electric element and it is about 6" to
8" in diameter. A wok has a rounded bottom and makes contact at one tiny
point. Where is the efficiency? My one gas burner has a nice hot 3"
diameter flame that heats the base of a wok very well.

Using a wok is one reason I got rid of the electric range shortly after
moving here.

I didn't say that peak efficiency could be found placing a round bottom
wok on a conventional cal-rod type electric element. A flat bottom wok
would make better contact with a cal-rod type element. A round bottom
wok would of course benefit from a more appropriately shaped cal-rod
element, or better yet, and induction "burner", both of which would
provide more efficient heat transfer/generation than a gas flame.

On Dec 27, 3:48*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message

ster.com...



Steve Barker wrote:

while you're at it, search for auto fatalities. *Gonna quit driving also?

It's a matter of practical, safer alternatives. There are few
alternatives to autos, unless you live in a big city, but there are
plenty of safer alternatives to nat gas appliances / heating.

I did the search on CNN. They were in the Ukraine, a pub in Ireland, etc.
I'm not going to bother looking for statistics, but if you look at
fatalities by various sources, I think NG is way down on the list. *A few
years ago we did have a house in my town get leveled though. *There was a
very small leak and someone probing for it made a big gas leak that seeped
into the house. *Human error caused a small problem to become a big one..

I'd still switch to gas if I could. We use propane for cooking.

Electric fire happen everyday here in chgo from space heaters,
overloaded circuits, its news but not headlines since it didnt blow
up. Electric fires are common in winter, gas explosions rare but
exciting news

Pete C. wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:

AMEN! good answer.


Bad answer. Noses detect smoke too, yet we need smoke detectors since
the nose is ineffective when the person it's attached to is
unconscious.


Smoke detectors detect the products of combustion - which may be odorless.

As I recall my high school biology, the ear bone is connected to the nose
bone. If being unconscious deactivates the nose bone, the ear bone is
likewise disabled.

Steve wrote:

I remember this clearly as well. We used to have a small room in our
basement where the coal was stored. You didn't want to touch anything
in that room or you'd get blackened. The coalman used to come about
every month or two and he was blackend from cap to boot! Every
morning someone in our house had to go down the basement and stirr the
clinkers and fill the stoker hopper. I was only about 9 or 10 when my
Dad switched to oil. That coal storage room in the basement never
did get cleaned well. I remember that coal furnace was huge and the
ducts were at least a foot or more in diameter, it was a gravity
system with no blower.

Steve

Dittos. Exact same experience as in my memories. Living in a small,
row house, I remember half the basement was used for the coal bin.
It is amazing that we survived all the pollution.
Coal can be clean burning but you need precipitators and scrubbers which
is something you are not going to have in your home.

i can see it maybe if your moneys tight and its cheeper,,but my
lord ,i remember filling the coal hopper every day on the old stove.what
a damn mess it was.. not to mention cleaning the stove out and the soot
i remember when nat gas came thru in 60 ,it was a god send.lucas

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

On Dec 28, 2:51�am, "Pete C." wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message

Actually, you can heat a wok more efficiently with an electric source
than with a gas source. A great deal of the BTUs from a gas wok burner
zip right past the sides of the wok and only heat the kitchen.

How does that happen? �Take a typical electric element and it is about 6" to
8" in diameter. �A wok has a rounded bottom and makes contact at one tiny
point. �Where is the efficiency? �My one gas burner has a nice hot 3"
diameter flame that heats the base of a wok very well.

Using a wok is one reason I got rid of the electric range shortly after
moving here.

I didn't say that peak efficiency could be found placing a round bottom
wok on a conventional cal-rod type electric element. A flat bottom wok
would make better contact with a cal-rod type element. A round bottom
wok would of course benefit from a more appropriately shaped cal-rod
element, or better yet, and induction "burner", both of which would
provide more efficient heat transfer/generation than a gas flame.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

so pete what do you recommend for home heating? since you claim gas is
unsafe?

On Dec 28, 9:05�am, wrote:
� � � �i can see it maybe if your moneys tight and its cheeper,,but my
lord ,i remember filling the coal hopper every day on the old stove.what
a damn mess it was.. not to mention cleaning the stove out and the soot
�i remember when nat gas came thru in 60 ,it was a god send.lucas

----------------------------------------------------------------http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

really a large coal burning power plant is likely cleaner than any
other way.

economies of scale for scrubbers etc

theres a proposal to take coal plants exhaust thro long tubes growing
algea,, the algea removes half the CO2 the algea is then converted
to ethanol. to be burned in any E85 vehicle

the best part is this can be adapted to any existing coal plant that
has land available.

we really need to be 100% ENERGY INDENPENDENT! even if it costs a bit
more now.

our economy depends on stable energy costs

"Pete C." wrote in message


I didn't say that peak efficiency could be found placing a round bottom
wok on a conventional cal-rod type electric element. A flat bottom wok
would make better contact with a cal-rod type element. A round bottom
wok would of course benefit from a more appropriately shaped cal-rod
element, or better yet, and induction "burner", both of which would
provide more efficient heat transfer/generation than a gas flame.- Hide
quoted text -

Flat bottom woks are imitations, part frying pan, not a true wok. I don't
know if cal-rod elements are available shaped to cradle a wok, but the
typical household does not have one. Give the tiny point of contact, would
an induction give enough heat? I think you must be pretty close to the
magnetic field. Woks were invented for open flame cooking and fuel
conservation.

G. Morgan wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

I trust you and I'm not an advocate for coal. I'm in Texas: 1) We
don't have any coal to speak of,

Somebody better tell this guy to stop digging then.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...FQBP4AEdYtBE-g


(31.477504,-96.153502)

I guess he will when he smells feet, but your post encouraged me to do a bit
of research.

"By the 1990s, Texas was the nation's sixth leading coal producing
state...."
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...s/CC/dkc3.html

I think we grind it up and use it as conglomerate in compounding concrete...
pretty sure cattle can't eat it.