Item, somewhat tongue in cheek, on radio here.

Executives of the big three auto companies are going to Washington
again this week to lobby the government for a bail (hand?) out.

In view of the bad publicity they engendered last time by flying in
individually in their private company jets they will drive.

Fortunately the Toyota company has enough fuel efficient vehicles on
hand to lend them for the trip.

There that seems to say it all. Eh?

If General Motors et-al want to survive they should make Toyotas.
Other companies around the world have done similar things. From China
there were numerous cheap versions of older model Toyota pickups, with
four cylinder engines, for example, running around Middle Eastern
countries.
Costing a few thousand dollars they are cheap and efficient in
countries where gasoline can cost as little as the equivalent of 50
cents per US gallon!

India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?

On Dec 1, 7:57�am, terry wrote:
Item, somewhat tongue in cheek, on radio here.

Executives of the big three auto companies are going to Washington
again this week to lobby the government for a bail (hand?) out.

In view of the bad publicity they engendered last time by flying in
individually in their private company jets they will drive.

Fortunately the Toyota company has enough fuel efficient vehicles on
hand to lend them for the trip.

There that seems to say it all. Eh?

If General Motors et-al �want to survive they should make Toyotas..
Other companies around the world have done similar things. From China
there were numerous cheap versions of older model Toyota pickups, with
four cylinder engines, for example, running around Middle Eastern
countries.
Costing a few thousand dollars they are cheap and efficient in
countries where gasoline can cost as little as the equivalent of 50
cents per US gallon!

India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?

truly exactly HOW will GM compete with a brand new vehicle under 3
grand? and make a profit?

foreign countries like china and india have nearly no environmental,
worker benefits, and safefy laws.

when the big 3 fail they will be bought cheap, not to produce
anything.

just for their dealer network, to support the influx of vehicles we
are about to see.

shouldnt imported products meet the same laws our country has?

if not we are just exporting the pollution, 11 years olds working in
factories, people expected to die on jobs. read awhile ago 40,000 died
last year mining coal in china.

that coal helped vproduce the dirt cheap products entering our country
today

to compete are standard of living is going to have drop a long way

terry wrote:

India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?

But after the government-mandated additions*, the India car will cost, oh,
$28,000. Mind you, that's just a rough estimate.

--------
* Catalytic converters, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, emission controls,
brake lights, turn indicators, air bags, vapor-controlled gas caps, safety
glass, non-streaking windshield wipers, remove ash tray, side view mirrors,
rear-view mirrors, tires with treads, emergency flashers, headlights, and so
on.

HeyBub wrote:
terry wrote:
India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?

But after the government-mandated additions*, the India car will cost, oh,
$28,000. Mind you, that's just a rough estimate.

--------
* Catalytic converters, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, emission controls,
brake lights, turn indicators, air bags, vapor-controlled gas caps, safety
glass, non-streaking windshield wipers, remove ash tray, side view mirrors,
rear-view mirrors, tires with treads, emergency flashers, headlights, and so
on.



So how do you explain current production cars made by foreign
manufacturers such as a Toyota Yaris that are available in the US for
less than half of your estimate?

On Dec 1, 6:57*am, terry wrote:
Item, somewhat tongue in cheek, on radio here.

Executives of the big three auto companies are going to Washington
again this week to lobby the government for a bail (hand?) out.

In view of the bad publicity they engendered last time by flying in
individually in their private company jets they will drive.

Fortunately the Toyota company has enough fuel efficient vehicles on
hand to lend them for the trip.

There that seems to say it all. Eh?

If General Motors et-al *want to survive they should make Toyotas.
Other companies around the world have done similar things. From China
there were numerous cheap versions of older model Toyota pickups, with
four cylinder engines, for example, running around Middle Eastern
countries.
Costing a few thousand dollars they are cheap and efficient in
countries where gasoline can cost as little as the equivalent of 50
cents per US gallon!

India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?


Hopefully they can enter bankruptcy instead of getting a bailout.
Under bankruptcy they can right-size the company; re-write supplier,
dealer and union contracts and move on with higher profit margins to
compete better with the more efficient companies. But they need to do
it before cash reserves dwindle, so they can re-org properly. Now
that gas is cheap, the trucks and suvs should sell again as a start.

Hopefully they can enter bankruptcy instead of getting a bailout.
Under bankruptcy they can right-size the company; re-write supplier,
dealer and union contracts and move on with higher profit margins to
compete better with the more efficient companies. But they need to do
it before cash reserves dwindle, so they can re-org properly. Now
that gas is cheap, the trucks and suvs should sell again as a start.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

--
js

A bird in the hand will bite you on the finger.

"terry" wrote in message
...
Item, somewhat tongue in cheek, on radio here.

A MODERN PARABLE . . .

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford) decided to
have
a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to
reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile. The Americans, very discouraged
and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat.
A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate
and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8
people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people
steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting
company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They
advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not
enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another
loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally
reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and
1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new
performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater
incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First
Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower. There was
discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra
vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor
performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and
canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was
distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing
team was out-sourced to India .

The End.

Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the
US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants
inside the US .

The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes $4 billion in profits while Ford racked up $9 billion in
losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

terry wrote:

If General Motors et-al want to survive they should make Toyotas.
Other companies around the world have done similar things. From China
there were numerous cheap versions of older model Toyota pickups, with
four cylinder engines, for example, running around Middle Eastern
countries.
Costing a few thousand dollars they are cheap and efficient in
countries where gasoline can cost as little as the equivalent of 50
cents per US gallon!

India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?

Toyota decided they didn't want Nissan getting all the high-end glory so
they designed a $50,000 sports car to compete with the 350Z. They also make
SUVs and larger pickup trucks, so the notion that the Japanese companies
make only little, economical cars while Detroit builds only land-yachts
seems inaccurate. General Motors is actually doing well overseas, selling
lots of cars in Asia for example. And Toyota's customer approval ratings
have been slipping lately as their quality isn't what it once was. I drove
Toyotas for years, but my last few vehicles have been Fords and I've had no
trouble with them. Whatever is behind the state of the U.S. auto industry,
it doesn't seem to be a case of the Japanese auto companies being run by
geniuses who make no mistakes and the U.S. companies being run exclusively
by morons.

On 12/01/08 12:40 pm PanHandler wrote:

Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the
US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants
inside the US .

The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes $4 billion in profits while Ford racked up $9 billion in
losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

Ford -- and GM and Chrysler -- are at the same disadvantage as the Brits
were at the end of WWII vis-a-vis Germany. The Brits still had their old
factories. The Brits had already done the Germans' demolition work for
them, and the latter could start over with new plants.

Do the Big 3's plants run as efficiently as Toyota's, for example? I've
toured Toyota's Georgetown KY plant, and it seemed remarkably efficient.
I don't doubt that some components were shipped in, but other than that
it seemed that huge coils of steel came in one end and finished cars
came out the other.

Perce

George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
terry wrote:
India is starting to produce cars that will cost between $2500 and
$5000 in various versions. The antics of the Big Three would seem to
have ignored the needs of those and also the needs of the European
market?

But after the government-mandated additions*, the India car will
cost, oh, $28,000. Mind you, that's just a rough estimate.

--------
* Catalytic converters, seat belts, anti-lock brakes, emission
controls, brake lights, turn indicators, air bags, vapor-controlled
gas caps, safety glass, non-streaking windshield wipers, remove ash
tray, side view mirrors, rear-view mirrors, tires with treads,
emergency flashers, headlights, and so on.



So how do you explain current production cars made by foreign
manufacturers such as a Toyota Yaris that are available in the US for
less than half of your estimate?

I dunno. But if you start with something made of wood, there's a lot of
retro-fitting to do.

On Dec 1, 8:21�pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 12/01/08 12:40 pm PanHandler wrote:

Here's something else to think about:
Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its �factories out of the
US, claiming they can't make money paying American �wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a �dozen plants
inside the US .

The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes $4 billion in profits while Ford racked up $9 �billion in
losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

Ford -- and GM and Chrysler -- are at the same disadvantage as the Brits
were at the end of WWII vis-a-vis Germany. The Brits still had their old
factories. The Brits had already done the Germans' demolition work for
them, and the latter could start over with new plants.

Do the Big 3's plants run as efficiently as Toyota's, for example? I've
toured Toyota's Georgetown KY plant, and it seemed remarkably efficient.
I don't doubt that some components were shipped in, but other than that
it seemed that huge coils of steel came in one end and finished cars
came out the other.

Perce

Been thru GM lordstown ohio plant, its primarily final assembly, the
majority of parts come from outside vendors, no doubt to save costs.
even dashboards come in assembled, and just installed.

india is about to start shipping seat assemblies to the US big bucks
savings there.

US high costs, environmental, and worker safety costs means we can no
longer compete

clipped


US high costs, environmental, and worker safety costs means we can no
longer compete


Average wage of $28/hr. is not competitive.........

As long as there are strong incentives to make every sniffle "workers
comp", US will not be
competitive. The videos on TV of "disabled" workers up on the roof
doing work aren't
fiction - fraud in the w.c. system is probably the rule, not the
exception. I've seen loads
and loads of folks with w.c. claims that don't reasonably justify the
claim that the problem
is work-related. It is hugely wasteful in corporate, personal, legal
and medical resources.

On Dec 2, 6:16�am, Norminn wrote:
clipped



US high costs, environmental, and worker safety costs means we can no
longer compete

Average wage of $28/hr. is not competitive.........

As long as there are strong incentives to make every sniffle "workers
comp", US will not be
competitive. �The videos on TV of "disabled" workers up on the roof
doing work aren't
fiction - fraud in the w.c. system is probably the rule, not the
exception. �I've seen loads
and loads of folks with w.c. claims that don't reasonably justify the
claim that the problem
is work-related. �It is hugely wasteful in corporate, personal, legal
and medical resources.

3 buck a hour american top pay in china, with liottle add ons.


did you know 40,000 chinese miners died 2 years ago in accidents?

wrote:

On Dec 2, 6:16�am, Norminn wrote:


clipped





US high costs, environmental, and worker safety costs means we can no
longer compete


Average wage of $28/hr. is not competitive.........

As long as there are strong incentives to make every sniffle "workers
comp", US will not be
competitive. �The videos on TV of "disabled" workers up on the roof
doing work aren't
fiction - fraud in the w.c. system is probably the rule, not the
exception. �I've seen loads
and loads of folks with w.c. claims that don't reasonably justify the
claim that the problem
is work-related. �It is hugely wasteful in corporate, personal, legal
and medical resources.



3 buck a hour american top pay in china, with liottle add ons.


did you know 40,000 chinese miners died 2 years ago in accidents?


Look at the American problem like this: some folks work hard, every day,
don't abuse work issues
at all. Others who goof off or drink on the job, fake or make
unjustified w.c. claims, are just
taking money from deserving employees. The present system is open to
abuse, like claiming
old problems as w.c., faking disability, etc. Disability pay is only
60%, but tax free.