In , Gary Heston wrote:
In article ,
Don Klipstein wrote:
[ ... ]
Many of us now use CFLs rated at 10k hrs mean life, so many of them
will go on to well over 10k. Using your figures and extrapolating
wildly, at 15k hrs they will have lost somewhere vaguely in the region
of 50% output. Not that bad in most cases, but yes big drop.
[ ... ]

FYI, within the last 5-6 weeks I noticed one of my porch lights was
blinking on and off--a GE FLB17 16w CF with external envelope--and
had to swap it out.

That light had been in near-continuous operation since about 1993 or
1994. It was out on Halloween nights and during a few power failures.

Calculator tells me that's over 120,000 hours. It's output had faded
quite a bit (the 75W incandescent I replaced it with was _much_
brighter--and lasted less than a month) but it was still adequate.

I'll be looking for some more of those...

Look at all the hardware stores you can get to - I suspect that one is
obsolete.

Otherwise use a Philips "EL/O" / "Outdoor". Last time I checked, that
was still available at Home Depot in 15 watt (optimistically 60 watt
equivalent). Get the 5000 Kelvin "daylight" version if you can - the
spectrum is more favorable to making use of night vision.

If the fixture is enclosed, Philips SLS ("Marathon" triple-arch)
non-dimmable 23 watts or less (especially 15) should work well. Go for 20
or 23 watts if you need the extra fixture heating to get adequate warmup
in the winter.

- Don Klipstein )

"ransley"...
How do you post links here, I always recomend them but dont know how
to post them.

_____________________

First do this bracket:
Then paste in the link copied from the URL area
Then do this bracket:
Then hit enter

You now will have a usable link in your post.
Hope this helps,
Tomes

On Nov 29, 6:28*am, Doc wrote:
Just got a 4-pack of the Walmart "Great Value" version of these energy-
saver style fluorescent 23w bulbs which they claim are equivalent to a
100w incandescent bulb. Not even close. It's about like a 40w bulb.

Are the name brand bulbs of this type any better?

For me that is a feature. When I get up in the morning and turn on
the bathroom light, I like the idea of it not blasting me until I wake
up a little.

BTW I mix traditional and fluorescent lamps. The end result is a
very good color mix, somewhere between sunlight and standard lamps.
So for the lady of the house who has makeup and clothing color mixing
to do, it is great.

wrote...
BTW I mix traditional and fluorescent lamps. The end result is a
very good color mix, somewhere between sunlight and standard lamps.
So for the lady of the house who has makeup and clothing color mixing
to do, it is great.

So far I mix them in the kitchen, where we have recessed floods. I still like
the intensity of the halogen right over the workspace of the stove and counter,
with CFLs in the other places. Also, the single halogen in each bank lights up
instantly, while the CFLs warm up, so I don't have to wait to work.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:20:22 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:


"Doc" wrote in message
...
On Nov 29, 7:07 am, The Daring Dufas wrote:
One thing I have found when dealing
with a number of CFL lights is the fact that the
lamps have a warm up period.



Okay, I see it gets considerably brighter with time. However, this
seems like something of an annoyance if I want there to be light
*now*. Sort of like revisting TV's that need warming up or something.

So, the problem is easily solved. Buy incandescents. CFL lights use a lot less electricity and last
years longer than incandescents. The trade off is that you have to wait a minute for the full light
to come on. If it bothers you that much, get rid of them. Problem solved. That is like saying I want
a Toyota Prius but you cant stand that you cant fit giant boxes when you purchase something from
Home Depot. Simple answer, buy a gas guzzling SUV.

Tony

In article , "John Weiss" wrote:
wrote...
BTW I mix traditional and fluorescent lamps. The end result is a
very good color mix, somewhere between sunlight and standard lamps.
So for the lady of the house who has makeup and clothing color mixing
to do, it is great.

So far I mix them in the kitchen, where we have recessed floods. I still like
the intensity of the halogen right over the workspace of the stove and counter,

with CFLs in the other places. Also, the single halogen in each bank lights up

instantly, while the CFLs warm up, so I don't have to wait to work.

I will probably start using CFL's in the kitchen recessed positions after the halogen
fail. When i checked last The Home Deopot quit selling dimmer capable CFL's several
years ago, so I went with Halogen. I do like the Halogen color but some CFL's
are close. Figure $15 each for a dimmable CFL.

On another note, a GREEN label is on some 4 foot 40 Watt lamps GE Ecolux
tubes in the room here. They FAR outshine any other flourescent lamp
I have seen. They typically look twice as bright as the brightest lamp
here. They DO have a certain greenish color, and they don't have them at the Depot.

greg

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:58:47 -0500, Tony
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:20:22 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:


"Doc" wrote in message
...
On Nov 29, 7:07 am, The Daring Dufas wrote:
One thing I have found when dealing
with a number of CFL lights is the fact that the
lamps have a warm up period.



Okay, I see it gets considerably brighter with time. However, this
seems like something of an annoyance if I want there to be light
*now*. Sort of like revisting TV's that need warming up or something.

So, the problem is easily solved. Buy incandescents. CFL lights use a lot less electricity and last
years longer than incandescents. The trade off is that you have to wait a minute for the full light
to come on.

I have used a lot of CFLs (of different brands) and have not had any
that take more than a second or two to come on, until recently (these
are flood lights).

If it bothers you that much, get rid of them. Problem solved. That is like saying I want
a Toyota Prius but you cant stand that you cant fit giant boxes when you purchase something from
Home Depot. Simple answer, buy a gas guzzling SUV.

Tony
--
21 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

In Tony
wrote:

So, the problem is easily solved. Buy incandescents

Better move quickly.

The "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007" applies performance
standards to incandescent bulbs which supposedly will effectively ban
them in a few years.

I've tried to read it but it consists mainly of a lot of edits to
existing regulations, like this:

(1) DEFINITION OF GENERAL SERVICE INCANDESCENT LAMP- Section 321(30) of
the Energy Policy and Conservation Act (42 U.S.C. 6291(30)) is amended--
(A) by striking subparagraph (D) and inserting the following:
bla bla bla ...

so it's not clear to me exactly what's going on.

Still, there's the "Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act", H.R.5616, which
claims to "repeal of the phase out of incandescent light bulbs."

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:58:47 -0500, Tony
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:20:22 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:


"Doc" wrote in message
...
On Nov 29, 7:07 am, The Daring Dufas wrote:
One thing I have found when dealing
with a number of CFL lights is the fact that the
lamps have a warm up period.



Okay, I see it gets considerably brighter with time. However, this
seems like something of an annoyance if I want there to be light
*now*. Sort of like revisting TV's that need warming up or something.

So, the problem is easily solved. Buy incandescents. CFL lights use a lot less
electricity and last
years longer than incandescents. The trade off is that you have to wait a
minute for the full light
to come on.

I have used a lot of CFLs (of different brands) and have not had any
that take more than a second or two to come on, until recently (these
are flood lights).

Mine are also floodlights. In the cold they first turn on with a dark purple, Deep Purple ?
Seems like they don't have it down quite right as far as light concentration
for more of a spot.

I have several around the house I never turn off, and one in the front yard. Its
a standard CFL inside one of those metal glass protective domes, completely
incased. I'm sure it gets hot in the middle of a summer day. I intend
on hooking up a photosensor, but that might make it burn out more
quickly. I'll find out.

In , GregS wrote in part:
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I have used a lot of CFLs (of different brands) and have not had any
that take more than a second or two to come on, until recently (these
are flood lights).

Mine are also floodlights. In the cold they first turn on with a dark
purple, Deep Purple ?

CFLs with outer bulbs have a general trend of starting dimmer and taking
longer to warm up than ones with bare tubing. The tubing in ones with
outer bulbs is formulated to work best at a higher temperature.

Seems like they don't have it down quite right as far as light concentration
for more of a spot.

The light from the reflector is less concentrated, because the initial
source (spiral of tubing) is larger and less intense than a filament.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Bert Hyman wrote:
In Tony
wrote:

So, the problem is easily solved. Buy incandescents

Better move quickly.

The "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007" applies performance
standards to incandescent bulbs which supposedly will effectively ban
them in a few years.

Far from it:

http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html

- Don Klipstein )

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 01:36:32 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In , GregS wrote in part:
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I have used a lot of CFLs (of different brands) and have not had any
that take more than a second or two to come on, until recently (these
are flood lights).

Mine are also floodlights. In the cold they first turn on with a dark
purple, Deep Purple ?

CFLs with outer bulbs have a general trend of starting dimmer and taking
longer to warm up than ones with bare tubing.

Seems true here. All the plain CFLs I've used would warm up in a
couple of seconds. The floodlights (look like regular CFLs inside
enclosures) take awhile.

The tubing in ones with
outer bulbs is formulated to work best at a higher temperature.

Seems like they don't have it down quite right as far as light concentration
for more of a spot.

The light from the reflector is less concentrated, because the initial
source (spiral of tubing) is larger and less intense than a filament.

- Don Klipstein )
--
20 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a warmer
spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb. Cheapier
fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night light I have in the
front window.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

"Macuser" wrote in message
...
I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a
warmer spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb.
Cheapier fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night light I
have in the front window.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

Throughout my home I have 72 CFL's of various wattages. Mixed brands, most
are indies. Color temp varies from 2700K to 2900K, equal to incandescent.
Have had 4 failures in 7 years, 2 outdoors and 2 in basement. I think
vibration may have got the outdoor ones as they are post lights. The 2 in
the basement are on 24/7 for general illumination for cats to find food,
water, and litter boxes.

Twice Retired wrote:

"Macuser" wrote in message
...
I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a
warmer spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb.
Cheapier fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night light
I have in the front window.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

Throughout my home I have 72 CFL's of various wattages. Mixed brands,
most are indies. Color temp varies from 2700K to 2900K, equal to
incandescent. Have had 4 failures in 7 years, 2 outdoors and 2 in
basement. I think vibration may have got the outdoor ones as they are
post lights. The 2 in the basement are on 24/7 for general illumination
for cats to find food, water, and litter boxes.


I don't think that cats require any more light than a dim glow
(equivalent to moonlight/starlight.) They ARE basically nocturnal
animals, after all.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Macuser wrote:
I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a
warmer spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb.
Cheapier fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night light I
have in the front window.




Even the "name brand" ones are made in China, though some are better
than others. The spectrum is determined by the color temperature, not by
the brand that makes them. 2700K is incandescent lookalike, 3100K is
often referred to as soft white, occasionally you see 3500K which are a
bit cooler, and then 5500K-6000K is referred to as "daylight". A few
companies charge exorbitant prices for daylight fluorescents marketing
them as some sort of magical sunlight substitute, they're no different
than the daylight cfls you can buy at most hardware stores for a few
dollars.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Twice Retired wrote:

"Macuser" wrote in message
...
I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a
warmer spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb.
Cheapier fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night
light I have in the front window.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

Throughout my home I have 72 CFL's of various wattages. Mixed brands,
most are indies. Color temp varies from 2700K to 2900K, equal to
incandescent. Have had 4 failures in 7 years, 2 outdoors and 2 in
basement. I think vibration may have got the outdoor ones as they are
post lights. The 2 in the basement are on 24/7 for general
illumination for cats to find food, water, and litter boxes.


I don't think that cats require any more light than a dim glow
(equivalent to moonlight/starlight.) They ARE basically nocturnal
animals, after all.

nate



Cats have far more sensitive vision than people, they have poor color
vision, and lower resolution, but excellent nighttime sensitivity. A
single nightlight is more than enough.

Twice Retired wrote:

"Macuser" wrote in message
...
I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a
warmer spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb.
Cheapier fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night light
I have in the front window.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."

Throughout my home I have 72 CFL's of various wattages. Mixed brands,
most are indies. Color temp varies from 2700K to 2900K, equal to
incandescent. Have had 4 failures in 7 years, 2 outdoors and 2 in
basement. I think vibration may have got the outdoor ones as they are
post lights. The 2 in the basement are on 24/7 for general illumination
for cats to find food, water, and litter boxes.

Interesting, thanks.

Lou

As far as I know, they're ALL made in China, but I said I prefer the bulbs
be name brand because they tend to have a more attractive glow. GE and other
brands tend to be much warmer as far as I have seen. One bulb I have fires
up as a dim colored rose bulb, and then it brightens to be a full spectrum
bulb. It's pretty weird.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."



Even the "name brand" ones are made in China, though some are better than
others. The spectrum is determined by the color temperature, not by the
brand that makes them. 2700K is incandescent lookalike, 3100K is often
referred to as soft white, occasionally you see 3500K which are a bit
cooler, and then 5500K-6000K is referred to as "daylight". A few companies
charge exorbitant prices for daylight fluorescents marketing them as some
sort of magical sunlight substitute, they're no different than the
daylight cfls you can buy at most hardware stores for a few dollars.

As far as I know, they're ALL made in China, but I said I prefer the bulbs
be name brand because they tend to have a more attractive glow. GE and other
brands tend to be much warmer as far as I have seen. One bulb I have fires
up as a dim colored rose bulb, and then it brightens to be a full spectrum
bulb. It's pretty weird.


--
http://cashcuddler.com

"Thrift is sexy."



Even the "name brand" ones are made in China, though some are better than
others. The spectrum is determined by the color temperature, not by the
brand that makes them. 2700K is incandescent lookalike, 3100K is often
referred to as soft white, occasionally you see 3500K which are a bit
cooler, and then 5500K-6000K is referred to as "daylight". A few companies
charge exorbitant prices for daylight fluorescents marketing them as some
sort of magical sunlight substitute, they're no different than the
daylight cfls you can buy at most hardware stores for a few dollars.

Macuser wrote:
As far as I know, they're ALL made in China, but I said I prefer the bulbs
be name brand because they tend to have a more attractive glow. GE and
other
brands tend to be much warmer as far as I have seen. One bulb I have fires
up as a dim colored rose bulb, and then it brightens to be a full spectrum
bulb. It's pretty weird.




The lamps that use a mercury amalgam rather than metallic mercury will
have mercury starvation until they warm up, so you'll get the reddish
glow of the mostly argon exciting the phosphor. The amalgam is commonly
used on lamps with higher power densities, that is higher wattage for
the size of the tube as it helps regulate vapor pressure.

In article , Macuser wrote:

I personally prefer the name brands because they produce light from a warmer
spectrum, which is closer in appearance to a luminscent bulb. Cheapier
fluorescents from the dollar store are ok for the night light I have in the
front window.

My experience of the ones from dollar stores and of "dollar store
brands" is:

1. Much more than their fair share of early failures

2. Much more than their fair share of spectacular failures (loud noises
and smoke)

3. 100% rate of those with claims of light output falling short of such
claims, in more extreme cases by a factor of 3-plus.

4. Apearance of less accountability, as in less traceability to
manufacturers. One even had a copyright claim on its package, but
lacking even notation as to who or what was claiming the copyright,
as well as apparent lack of mention of a brand.

5. Most have an outright icy cold bluish color similar to or even
slightly more bluish than the color of those "daylight" fluorescents.
This includes many (though not all, maybe not most) that come in
packages saying "soft warm white light".

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Nate Nagel wrote:
Twice Retired wrote:

Throughout my home I have 72 CFL's of various wattages. Mixed brands,
most are indies. Color temp varies from 2700K to 2900K, equal to
incandescent. Have had 4 failures in 7 years, 2 outdoors and 2 in
basement. I think vibration may have got the outdoor ones as they are
post lights. The 2 in the basement are on 24/7 for general illumination
for cats to find food, water, and litter boxes.


I don't think that cats require any more light than a dim glow
(equivalent to moonlight/starlight.) They ARE basically nocturnal
animals, after all.

Green or blue LED nightlights rated to consume less than 1/2 watt will
be plenty. They produce light of wavelengths that night vision is
sensitive to. My experience is that even dark-adapted humans can see by
those well enough to easily find objects in rooms.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , James Sweet wrote:
Macuser wrote:
As far as I know, they're ALL made in China, but I said I prefer the bulbs
be name brand because they tend to have a more attractive glow. GE and
other
brands tend to be much warmer as far as I have seen. One bulb I have fires
up as a dim colored rose bulb, and then it brightens to be a full spectrum
bulb. It's pretty weird.

The lamps that use a mercury amalgam rather than metallic mercury will
have mercury starvation until they warm up, so you'll get the reddish
glow of the mostly argon exciting the phosphor. The amalgam is commonly
used on lamps with higher power densities, that is higher wattage for
the size of the tube as it helps regulate vapor pressure.

Amalgam is also used in ones with outer bulbs. In fact, some with outer
bulbs may even get a different amalgam (with greater warmup requirements)
than some without outer bulbs but still getting an amalgam rather than
pure liquid mercury.

- Don Klipstein )