I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks

fzbuilder wrote:
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


I have one of these that I picked up at
Lowe's/Home Depot:

http://tinyurl.com/5eq5re

TDD

"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what gets
turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets and fridge
are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that would have been the
Nec legal way to do it.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:01:59 -0500, RBM wrote:

"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what gets
turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets and fridge
are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that would have been the
Nec legal way to do it.

should they be ganged? That thought the only time breakers were ganged together
was to control 240v devices.

RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what gets
turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets and fridge
are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that would have been the
Nec legal way to do it.



Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate
circuits an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would
do this beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?

"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what
gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets and
fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that would
have been the Nec legal way to do it.

Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate circuits
an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would do this
beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?



A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire circuits.
I think in Canada it has been required for some time.

fzbuilder wrote:
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Not sure why it would matter?
On some double breakers you can take the connecting bar off. If not then
you would have to open the panel and disconnect one of the wires from
the breaker. Turn the beaker back on and map out the circuit. Then
change to the other wire....

It's possible that you have an 'Edison' circuit where one neutral wire
(white) is shared by the 2 circuits. If the breaker is connected to one
12/3 cable w/red, black, white + GND then that is the case. If so then
it must remain as is unless you rewire things.
If not an 'Edison' circuit then there is no reason to use the double
breaker and you could either remove the connecting bar or swap out the
double with 2 single 20's. (Verify that the wire is 12ga or larger)

Kevin

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:21:10 -0500, John Grabowski wrote:

"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what
gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets and
fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that would
have been the Nec legal way to do it.

Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate circuits
an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would do this
beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?



A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire circuits.
I think in Canada it has been required for some time.

how is it a multiwire circuit? just curious.

John Grabowski wrote:

"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...

I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what
gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets
and fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that
would have been the Nec legal way to do it.

Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate
circuits an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would
do this beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?



A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire
circuits. I think in Canada it has been required for some time.

Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit
consisting of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110 volt
are used?

On 2008-11-24, Ken wrote:

Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit
consisting of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110
volt are used?

For single phase AC, a "multiwire circuit" is a 3 conductor (plus EGC)
circuit in which there is a neutral and two hots on opposite legs.
Also called an Edison circuit or a shared neutral circuit.

Yours, Wayne

"Ken" wrote in message
...
John Grabowski wrote:

"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what
gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets
and fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that
would have been the Nec legal way to do it.

Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate circuits
an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would do this
beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?



A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire
circuits. I think in Canada it has been required for some time.

Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit consisting
of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110 volt are used?

As John and Wayne explained, these are circuits that share a common neutral.
There was only a requirement to use a double pole breaker if both circuits
were attached to devices in a single box, but it really is a much safer way
to wire them, and as John pointed out is required by the 2008 NEC

"Kevin Ricks" wrote in message
news
fzbuilder wrote:
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks


Not sure why it would matter?
On some double breakers you can take the connecting bar off. If not then
you would have to open the panel and disconnect one of the wires from the
breaker. Turn the beaker back on and map out the circuit. Then change to
the other wire....

It's possible that you have an 'Edison' circuit where one neutral wire
(white) is shared by the 2 circuits. If the breaker is connected to one
12/3 cable w/red, black, white + GND then that is the case. If so then it
must remain as is unless you rewire things.
If not an 'Edison' circuit then there is no reason to use the double
breaker and you could either remove the connecting bar or swap out the
double with 2 single 20's. (Verify that the wire is 12ga or larger)

Kevin

I think he may be trying to determine if the washer is indeed on a separate
circuit, or could it be attached to the fridge, or kitchen outlets

fzbuilder wrote:
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks

There are a few ways to tell. Open the front panel and see if the leads
from each breaker go to a single cable or conduit. Then at the first
outlet see if one hot is connected there and if the neutral is bridged
where it and the other hot go to the next outlet.

Having the breakers ganged together provides additional safety. If only
one circuit is off there is a possibility that the accompanying neutral
wire is carrying current from the other circuit.

RBM wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
John Grabowski wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks

Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what
gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets
and fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that
would have been the Nec legal way to do it.
Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate circuits
an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would do this
beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?


A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire
circuits. I think in Canada it has been required for some time.
Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit consisting
of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110 volt are used?

As John and Wayne explained, these are circuits that share a common neutral.
There was only a requirement to use a double pole breaker if both circuits
were attached to devices in a single box, but it really is a much safer way
to wire them, and as John pointed out is required by the 2008 NEC



Thanks to both of you for the explanations. I have another question
however:

If the gauge of the wire is appropriate for say 20 amps, and you supply
each wire designated for line from a separate 20A breaker, how can the
neutral wire be of adequate gauge for both circuits? In other words, if
20 amps were drawn on each of the line wires and the common neutral was
used for both circuits, wouldn't the capacity of the neutral be exceeded
and be over 20 amps?? Maybe I am missing something?

"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
John Grabowski wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...
I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks

Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see what
gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen outlets
and fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the other, as that
would have been the Nec legal way to do it.
Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate
circuits an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone would
do this beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?


A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire
circuits. I think in Canada it has been required for some time.
Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit
consisting of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110 volt
are used?

As John and Wayne explained, these are circuits that share a common
neutral. There was only a requirement to use a double pole breaker if
both circuits were attached to devices in a single box, but it really is
a much safer way to wire them, and as John pointed out is required by the
2008 NEC

Thanks to both of you for the explanations. I have another question
however:

If the gauge of the wire is appropriate for say 20 amps, and you supply
each wire designated for line from a separate 20A breaker, how can the
neutral wire be of adequate gauge for both circuits? In other words, if
20 amps were drawn on each of the line wires and the common neutral was
used for both circuits, wouldn't the capacity of the neutral be exceeded
and be over 20 amps?? Maybe I am missing something?



That is one of the wonders of electricity. The neutral will only carry the
difference between the two phases. The hots must be on opposite phases.

Ken wrote:
RBM wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
John Grabowski wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...

I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks

Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see
what gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the kitchen
outlets and fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on the
other, as that would have been the Nec legal way to do it.
Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate
circuits an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone
would do this beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?


A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire
circuits. I think in Canada it has been required for some time.
Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit
consisting of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110
volt are used?

As John and Wayne explained, these are circuits that share a common
neutral. There was only a requirement to use a double pole breaker if
both circuits were attached to devices in a single box, but it really
is a much safer way to wire them, and as John pointed out is required
by the 2008 NEC


Thanks to both of you for the explanations. I have another question
however:

If the gauge of the wire is appropriate for say 20 amps, and you
supply each wire designated for line from a separate 20A breaker, how
can the neutral wire be of adequate gauge for both circuits? In other
words, if 20 amps were drawn on each of the line wires and the common
neutral was used for both circuits, wouldn't the capacity of the neutral
be exceeded and be over 20 amps?? Maybe I am missing something?

The current wave cancels out. So if you have say 6 amps draw on 1 wire
and 7 amps on the other, then the combined current on the neutral would
be only 1 amp. 20A and 20A = 0A etc... So the most amps the neutral will
see is 20A.
Thats why it's important to keep the 2 wires on opposite hot legs in the
panel. Using a double breaker assures that.
If both hots are put on the same leg then the neutral will be overloaded.

Kevin

Kevin Ricks wrote:
Ken wrote:
RBM wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
John Grabowski wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...

I have a 2 pole 20 amp breaker that I though went straight to my
washing machine in the garage, but upon tripping it I see my fridge
and a couple 20 amp 120v outlets in the kitchen go out too. I am
wondering if it is possible that someone has wired one side of the
breaker to go to the kitchen and one side to my washing machine. If
so, what would be the best way to tell? Thanks

Open up the panel and remove one wire from the breaker, then see
what gets turned on. Most likely you are correct, that the
kitchen outlets and fridge are on one wire, and the washer is on
the other, as that would have been the Nec legal way to do it.
Is the use of such a ganged (two pole) breaker for two separate
circuits an acceptable practice? Just curious as to why someone
would do this beside the fact it is easier to pull the wire?


A two pole breaker is now required in the 2008 code on multiwire
circuits. I think in Canada it has been required for some time.
Could you please define a "multiwire circuit?" Is it a circuit
consisting of two hot wires, such as a 220 volt one where two 110
volt are used?

As John and Wayne explained, these are circuits that share a common
neutral. There was only a requirement to use a double pole breaker if
both circuits were attached to devices in a single box, but it really
is a much safer way to wire them, and as John pointed out is required
by the 2008 NEC


Thanks to both of you for the explanations. I have another
question however:

If the gauge of the wire is appropriate for say 20 amps, and you
supply each wire designated for line from a separate 20A breaker, how
can the neutral wire be of adequate gauge for both circuits? In other
words, if 20 amps were drawn on each of the line wires and the common
neutral was used for both circuits, wouldn't the capacity of the
neutral be exceeded and be over 20 amps?? Maybe I am missing something?

The current wave cancels out. So if you have say 6 amps draw on 1 wire
and 7 amps on the other, then the combined current on the neutral would
be only 1 amp. 20A and 20A = 0A etc... So the most amps the neutral will
see is 20A.
Thats why it's important to keep the 2 wires on opposite hot legs in the
panel. Using a double breaker assures that.
If both hots are put on the same leg then the neutral will be overloaded.

Kevin




I knew I had to be overlooking something. Thanks.

Lets trim this christmas tree. Delete some old text.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ken" wrote in message
...
Kevin Ricks wrote:
Ken wrote:
RBM wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
John Grabowski wrote:
"Ken" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
"fzbuilder" wrote in message
...