I have a 50 yr old row house. Never had a water problem... except for
during Isabella, the sump pump didn't work and water backed up into the
finished basement. I dried everything out and didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 5 years, and I have the house up for sale. Buyer made an
offer contingent on mold test. (My agent didn't know why as she hadn't
noticed anything, other than it smelled a bit musty from the house
(vacant) being closed up. I have asthma to cats, dogs etc and never had
a problem). Test came back "high" for several types of mold, including
the stachy stuff. They also saw, but didn't test for, mold on attic
rafters. Buyer bailed.

I had one company (name dropped by the home inspector who did the
testing) come in. He told me the only way to eradicate it was to
completely rip out all of the knotty pine and go down to the cement. $8K
(reduced from $11) for that and sanding and encapsulating the attic
beams. I had a second company come out. His version is that the basement
doesn't need to be demo'd, that the mold is on the surface of the
paneling (and that it normally feeds on wallboard etc, not wood) and can
be treated by sanding and using clear encapsulant, the same as both of
them propose for the attic, and it will pass the next round of tests.
For $3400, including retest. Claims the first guy is just in it for the
money. I'm not sure the 2nd guy is necessarily accurate (although I want
him to be!) or is saying that depending on how the tests are performed,
they can be "made" to say anything. He also said he doesn't believe the
first set of tests, that if they were accurate, everyone would be sick,
and the walls would look like the photos he showed me of someone with
far less count. He says the home inspector must have done the tests
wrong, sticking it directly in one of the small pockets of mold rather
than testing the air. Both companies agree that the stuff in the attic
may well have been there since the house was built, as back in the day,
people didn't care if there was mold on the wood which had been sitting
outside. Both agree the probable source was the sump pump overflow (sump
was replaced during that episode, and no further problems). Oh and 1st
guy claims he can see mold spores on the paneling. Second guy says he can't.

I'm trying to sort out just what IS going on and what the right answer
is. I don't want to have to tear out and rebuild the "clubroom" in a
house I no longer occupy if I don't have to, but I don't want to
endanger anyone (or any sale!) if it truly is necessary. I have a 3rd
company coming out this week. She has just seen the test results, and
also feels that many home inspectors don't know how to collect the tests
correctly, and says generally knotty pine doesn't need to be removed.

Sorry. Long tale, I just get so upset every time I try to tell it! What
I'm asking at this point (in addition to does anyone have any thoughts
on these scenarios) is - are these companies known for having a high
incidence of scammers?

On Oct 20, 8:54*pm, Lee B wrote:
I have a 50 yr old row house. Never had a water problem... except for
during Isabella, the sump pump didn't work and water backed up into the
finished basement. I dried everything out and didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 5 years, and I have the house up for sale. Buyer made an
offer contingent on mold test. (My agent didn't know why as she hadn't
noticed anything, other than it smelled a bit musty from the house
(vacant) being closed up. I have asthma to cats, dogs etc and never had
a problem). Test came back "high" for several types of mold, including
the stachy stuff. They also saw, but didn't test for, mold on attic
rafters. Buyer bailed.

I had one company (name dropped by the home inspector who did the
testing) come in. He told me the only way to eradicate it was to
completely rip out all of the knotty pine and go down to the cement. $8K
(reduced from $11) for that and sanding and encapsulating the attic
beams. I had a second company come out. His version is that the basement
doesn't need to be demo'd, that the mold is on the surface of the
paneling (and that it normally feeds on wallboard etc, not wood) and can
be treated by sanding and using clear encapsulant, the same as both of
them propose for the attic, and it will pass the next round of tests.
For $3400, including retest. Claims the first guy is just in it for the
money. I'm not sure the 2nd guy is necessarily accurate (although I want
him to be!) or is saying that depending on how the tests are performed,
they can be "made" to say anything. He also said he doesn't believe the
first set of tests, that if they were accurate, everyone would be sick,
and the walls would look like the photos he showed me of someone with
far less count. He says the home inspector must have done the tests
wrong, sticking it directly in one of the small pockets of mold rather
than testing the air. Both companies agree that the stuff in the attic
may well have been there since the house was built, as back in the day,
people didn't care if there was mold on the wood which had been sitting
outside. Both agree the probable source was the sump pump overflow (sump
was replaced during that episode, and no further problems). Oh and 1st
guy claims he can see mold spores on the paneling. Second guy says he can't.

I'm trying to sort out just what IS going on and what the right answer
is. I don't want to have to tear out and rebuild the "clubroom" in a
house I no longer occupy if I don't have to, but I don't want to
endanger anyone (or any sale!) if it truly is necessary. I have a 3rd
company coming out this week. She has just seen the test results, and
also feels that many home inspectors don't know how to collect the tests
correctly, and says generally knotty pine doesn't need to be removed.

Sorry. Long tale, I just get so upset every time I try to tell it! What
I'm asking at this point (in addition to does anyone have any thoughts
on these scenarios) is - are these companies known for having a high
incidence of scammers?

There are tons of crooks in that business, mold is everywhere but only
thrives in damp. You have mold from dampness or excessive humidity of
over maybe 75%, you probably have some leaks to close up. Plain
laundry bleach kills mold and can be used in a garden sprayer to get
large areas. You must have some leaks you need to address first

ransley wrote:


There are tons of crooks in that business, mold is everywhere but only
thrives in damp. You have mold from dampness or excessive humidity of
over maybe 75%, you probably have some leaks to close up. Plain
laundry bleach kills mold and can be used in a garden sprayer to get
large areas. You must have some leaks you need to address first

I live in humid North Carolina where we don't have basements, just
crawlspaces. I had a moisture problem caused by humid air entering
throught the vents in the crawlspace and condensing on the cold A/C
ducts. Mold was growing out around the electrical cover plates in the
house. A mold remediation company wanted $20k to fix, including
gutting the upstairs to the studs and replacing the drywall.

I had a crew of day laborers come in, close up the vents, spray the
underside of the house with bleach, and no more mold. Cost a couple of
hundred bucks. I also installed a couple of dehumidifers down there,
but once the initial moisture was gone I never turned them on again.

Sorry guys, using bleach on porous surfaces is the worst thing you can
do. It kills a small percentage of the surface mold, but then the
water soaks into the porous surfaces and actually feeds future mold
growth.

Do a search on the EPA site for mold remediation and read their
recommendations.

On Oct 21, 2:54 am, Lee B wrote:
I have a 50 yr old row house. Never had a water problem... except for
during Isabella, the sump pump didn't work and water backed up into the
finished basement. I dried everything out and didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 5 years, and I have the house up for sale. Buyer made an
offer contingent on mold test. (My agent didn't know why as she hadn't
noticed anything, other than it smelled a bit musty from the house
(vacant) being closed up. I have asthma to cats, dogs etc and never had
a problem). Test came back "high" for several types of mold, including
the starchy stuff. They also saw, but didn't test for, mold on attic
rafters. Buyer bailed.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mould spores are everywhere!
Usually they are not a problem.
They only come to life when there is a damp place for them to settle
and grow.
Mould that is growing on something that is damp, dies the moment it
becomes dry.
Mould in the home, is the result, in the main of our living style.
We breath and sweat some 2.5 litres of water vapour each 24 hours,
this vapour is held in the air until the temperature drops, whereupon,
it heads for the nearest cold place, usually a window, where it turns
into condensation.
If there is a spot that is colder than a window then it settles there.
The cold spot may be a bed, wall, ceiling, furniture even the loft.
Water vapour (our breath is saturated water vapour) is an incredibly
tiny gas, think of it as air being the size of a football and water
vapour being tiny ball bearings that move between the footballs of
air.
Water vapour is so tiny it can find its way into most things, it can
certainly find its way through tiny holes in our woodwork.
After our breath and sweat the next things that produce water vapour
are kitchens and bathrooms, where things are left to dry on radiators
and the extractor fans are not used and where doors are left open.
There are two ways to get rid of water vapour.
One. Leave the windows open and dry the place out and wait for summers
warm dry days.
Two. Buy and use a de-humidifier, turn it on, leave it on until the
place dries out.

If you have a leaking roof or pipe the mould will be located near the
problem.

From what you write I guess it down to life style.
Perry

In article ,
Lee B wrote:

I have a 50 yr old row house. Never had a water problem... except for
during Isabella, the sump pump didn't work and water backed up into the
finished basement. I dried everything out and didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 5 years, and I have the house up for sale. Buyer made an
offer contingent on mold test. (My agent didn't know why as she hadn't
noticed anything, other than it smelled a bit musty from the house
(vacant) being closed up. I have asthma to cats, dogs etc and never had
a problem). Test came back "high" for several types of mold, including
the stachy stuff. They also saw, but didn't test for, mold on attic
rafters. Buyer bailed.

I had one company (name dropped by the home inspector who did the
testing) come in. He told me the only way to eradicate it was to
completely rip out all of the knotty pine and go down to the cement. $8K
(reduced from $11) for that and sanding and encapsulating the attic
beams. I had a second company come out. His version is that the basement
doesn't need to be demo'd, that the mold is on the surface of the
paneling (and that it normally feeds on wallboard etc, not wood) and can
be treated by sanding and using clear encapsulant, the same as both of
them propose for the attic, and it will pass the next round of tests.
For $3400, including retest. Claims the first guy is just in it for the
money. I'm not sure the 2nd guy is necessarily accurate (although I want
him to be!) or is saying that depending on how the tests are performed,
they can be "made" to say anything. He also said he doesn't believe the
first set of tests, that if they were accurate, everyone would be sick,
and the walls would look like the photos he showed me of someone with
far less count. He says the home inspector must have done the tests
wrong, sticking it directly in one of the small pockets of mold rather
than testing the air. Both companies agree that the stuff in the attic
may well have been there since the house was built, as back in the day,
people didn't care if there was mold on the wood which had been sitting
outside. Both agree the probable source was the sump pump overflow (sump
was replaced during that episode, and no further problems). Oh and 1st
guy claims he can see mold spores on the paneling. Second guy says he can't.

I'm trying to sort out just what IS going on and what the right answer
is. I don't want to have to tear out and rebuild the "clubroom" in a
house I no longer occupy if I don't have to, but I don't want to
endanger anyone (or any sale!) if it truly is necessary. I have a 3rd
company coming out this week. She has just seen the test results, and
also feels that many home inspectors don't know how to collect the tests
correctly, and says generally knotty pine doesn't need to be removed.

Sorry. Long tale, I just get so upset every time I try to tell it! What
I'm asking at this point (in addition to does anyone have any thoughts
on these scenarios) is - are these companies known for having a high
incidence of scammers?

Your prospective buyer is gone. If he'd made an offer contingent on you
footing the bill for mold remediation, then your efforts make sense. But
he didn't. Forget about it, and wait for another buyer who isn't so
persnickety. Meanwhile make sure you keep the place aired out well to
alleviate the "musty" smell.

Rick-Meister wrote:

Sorry guys, using bleach on porous surfaces is the worst thing you can
do. It kills a small percentage of the surface mold, but then the
water soaks into the porous surfaces and actually feeds future mold
growth.

In my case, I dried up the source of the moisture and have been
mold-free for maybe five years now.

On Oct 21, 11:20*am, Rick-Meister wrote:
Sorry guys, using bleach on porous surfaces is the worst thing you can
do. It kills a small percentage of the surface mold, but then the
water soaks into the porous surfaces and actually feeds future mold
growth.

Do a search on the EPA site for mold remediation and read their
recommendations.

It feeds nothing, mold is killed by removing oxygen to the plant, it
comes back because the invironment has not been changed. Mold only
grows with excessive moisture, mold is in air and comes bak until you
dry things out.

Rick-Meister wrote:
Sorry guys, using bleach on porous surfaces is the worst thing you can
do. It kills a small percentage of the surface mold, but then the
water soaks into the porous surfaces and actually feeds future mold
growth.

Do a search on the EPA site for mold remediation and read their
recommendations.

Is varnished (or whatever it is) knotty pine considered porous? The one
area of visible mold I saw (prior to the inspection and didn't even give
it a second thought) wiped right off the shiny surface. This is what's
confusing, two "mold remediation" companies are giving me completely
conflicting recommendations. EPA guidelines seem just to address
commercial buildings and schools. They say remove water damaged wood,
although there really isn't that much water damaged knotty pine, except
the quarter round molding which the 2nd company proposed removing prior
to sanding. (And a section of paneling behind a shower stall where it
leaks when the caulk needs to be replaced).

BTW, according to my real estate agent, I can't "forget" about it since
we have the test results. I'm willing to remediate it, but don't want to
put more money into that than necessary. The hope is that with a
certificate of remediation and a second set of clean tests, no one will
ask for more. I do think part of the problem is a result of removing the
old carpeting (you know the old foam backed imitation wall to wall stuff
when I was getting ready to sell. I suspect if there was mold, it
settled in there after the sump pump episode and got scattered when that
was removed. Then the RE agents recommended I put the humidifier away
(ok it's ugly, but now I wish I'd left it out) and that may have grown
some more. I tend to agree with the 2nd company that the amount isn't as
bad as the test says, and hinted that the inspector could have an
"agreement" with the remediation company. Second guy said if there
really were "a half million spores per cubic meter" it would be so thick
we couldn't see through it, which is why he thinks the tests were done
incorrectly.

Guess I'll wait 'til the 3rd company reports in. (I actually feel better
about her because her company was recommended by the insurance company).

Thanks for the responses. I just want to get this thing sold and stop
paying two mortgages!!

Richard Evans wrote in
:

ransley wrote:


There are tons of crooks in that business, mold is everywhere but only
thrives in damp. You have mold from dampness or excessive humidity of
over maybe 75%, you probably have some leaks to close up. Plain
laundry bleach kills mold and can be used in a garden sprayer to get
large areas. You must have some leaks you need to address first

I live in humid North Carolina where we don't have basements, just
crawlspaces. I had a moisture problem caused by humid air entering
throught the vents in the crawlspace and condensing on the cold A/C
ducts. Mold was growing out around the electrical cover plates in the
house. A mold remediation company wanted $20k to fix, including
gutting the upstairs to the studs and replacing the drywall.

I had a crew of day laborers come in, close up the vents, spray the
underside of the house with bleach, and no more mold. Cost a couple of
hundred bucks. I also installed a couple of dehumidifers down there,
but once the initial moisture was gone I never turned them on again.



Mold was growing out around the electrical cover plates in the
house.

That pretty rough!

I'm in NC now and know the humidity.

Just curious. I'm sure the bleach did the mold in but I would still think
the residuals of it would still be there. If you ever were to sell it
that would probably be pointed out by a home inspector as possible past
or existing mold issues.

Do you think it would pass a mold test? That mold test thing they
probably always find "Danger! you're gonna die if you move there." to
generate a $20k fix.

On Oct 21, 1:48*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Lee B wrote:





I have a 50 yr old row house. Never had a water problem... except for
during Isabella, the sump pump didn't work and water backed up into the
finished basement. I dried everything out and didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 5 years, and I have the house up for sale. Buyer made an
offer contingent on mold test. (My agent didn't know why as she hadn't
noticed anything, other than it smelled a bit musty from the house
(vacant) being closed up. I have asthma to cats, dogs etc and never had
a problem). Test came back "high" for several types of mold, including
the stachy stuff. They also saw, but didn't test for, mold on attic
rafters. Buyer bailed.

I had one company (name dropped by the home inspector who did the
testing) come in. He told me the only way to eradicate it was to
completely rip out all of the knotty pine and go down to the cement. $8K
(reduced from $11) for that and sanding and encapsulating the attic
beams. I had a second company come out. His version is that the basement
doesn't need to be demo'd, that the mold is on the surface of the
paneling (and that it normally feeds on wallboard etc, not wood) and can
be treated by sanding and using clear encapsulant, the same as both of
them propose for the attic, and it will pass the next round of tests.
For $3400, including retest. Claims the first guy is just in it for the
money. I'm not sure the 2nd guy is necessarily accurate (although I want
him to be!) or is saying that depending on how the tests are performed,
they can be "made" to say anything. He also said he doesn't believe the
first set of tests, that if they were accurate, everyone would be sick,
and the walls would look like the photos he showed me of someone with
far less count. He says the home inspector must have done the tests
wrong, sticking it directly in one of the small pockets of mold rather
than testing the air. Both companies agree that the stuff in the attic
may well have been there since the house was built, as back in the day,
people didn't care if there was mold on the wood which had been sitting
outside. Both agree the probable source was the sump pump overflow (sump
was replaced during that episode, and no further problems). Oh and 1st
guy claims he can see mold spores on the paneling. Second guy says he can't.

I'm trying to sort out just what IS going on and what the right answer
is. I don't want to have to tear out and rebuild the "clubroom" in a
house I no longer occupy if I don't have to, but I don't want to
endanger anyone (or any sale!) if it truly is necessary. I have a 3rd
company coming out this week. She has just seen the test results, and
also feels that many home inspectors don't know how to collect the tests
correctly, and says generally knotty pine doesn't need to be removed.

Sorry. Long tale, I just get so upset every time I try to tell it! What
I'm asking at this point (in addition to does anyone have any thoughts
on these scenarios) is - are these companies known for having a high
incidence of scammers?

Your prospective buyer is gone. If he'd made an offer contingent on you
footing the bill for mold remediation, then your efforts make sense. But
he didn't. Forget about it, and wait for another buyer who isn't so
persnickety. Meanwhile make sure you keep the place aired out well to
alleviate the "musty" smell.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


In most states today, Lee legally can't just forget about it and find
another buyer. Most states have disclosure laws whereby an owner
knowing about this problem is required to disclose it to future
buyers. Besides the obvious legal aspects, what kind of person
would sell someone a house that tested with high levels of
Stachybotrys mold, which poses serious health hazhards, without
correcting or disclosing it?

Who to believe and how to remediate this is never an easy answer.
One question that comes to mind is with the basement pine paneling.
Has anyone determined what is behind the paneling? Since the
basement was flooded, it seems reasonable that there could be mold
present behind the paneling and the only way to find out is to get in
there and look.

One thing I can tell you is that the $8K number you have to pull the
paneling, treat the attic, etc, doesn't sound unreasonable. I would
rather spend a few thousand extra and have it done thoroughly, well
documented, with pics taken while it was being done, etc. If I was
buying it, knowing there was a mold problem, I'd rather have the
basement stripped bare so I could see what's there, rather than
knowing the pine paneling was just treated, not removed, who knows
what's still covered up behind, etc. Basicly, I think you are better
off getting a thorough and complete job that prospective buyers will
feel more comfortable with.

Even having done all that, I suspect you're going to have a difficult
time selling it in this market.

Lee B wrote:

I have a 50 yr old row house. Never had a water problem... except for
during Isabella, the sump pump didn't work and water backed up into the
finished basement. I dried everything out and didn't think much of it.

Fast forward 5 years, and I have the house up for sale. Buyer made an
offer contingent on mold test. (My agent didn't know why as she hadn't
noticed anything, other than it smelled a bit musty from the house
(vacant) being closed up. I have asthma to cats, dogs etc and never had
a problem). Test came back "high" for several types of mold, including
the stachy stuff. They also saw, but didn't test for, mold on attic
rafters. Buyer bailed. ...

In case anyone is interested in the outcome. I went with the third
company. The woman who heads the company put a lot of work into finding
a product to use that wouldn't require disemboweling my clubroom. She
came up with a product from this company - http://www.serumsystem.com/.
It contains a peroxide type of solution that "boils" the mold up to the
surface where it can then dry and be vacuumed off. See the video on the
"products" page. I have NO association with the company. I just thought
it was an interesting approach and wanted to mention it in case anyone
was following. It worked, and while it bleached the paneling just a
little, it was better than the alternatives! The initial post-test came
back below industry guidelines, so it is technically ok, however they
weren't as low as she wanted for one of the species (which tested higher
indoors than out) and she is doing another round of cleaning, and paying
for the retesting.

If anyone else runs into this problem, all I can say is search long and
hard for a decent company. The ones I encountered ran the gamut. From
the one who glibly said the only possible way to eradicate the problem
was to remove all of the paneling, carpeting, ceiling etc (which
probably was the easiest... and most lucrative) approach for him, to the
guy who told me that all remediators had "relationships" with testing
companies and could (wink, wink, nudge) get the post-test results to be
what they needed to be (and even warned me that, of course, a test by
another company the following week might not pass!). I'm just glad I
continued looking until I found someone who actually seems reputable.

One of the biggest problems I found is that the industry doesn't seem to
have much oversight. In my state, they just passed a law (goes into
effect in 2010) that mold remed companies must have home improvement
licenses; they don't now. There seem to be lots and lots of "air
quality" and "water damage" organizations that have their own sets of
certifications, although some of them sound rather like the "close
matchbook before striking" types of schools. And the biggest problem is
there are no "standards" of what any of the readings should be. There
are only "industry guidelines" and even those don't seem to be published
anywhere that the public can find them. So if one of my readings is
1500, and the outside tester says that is "within guidelines", I can't
find out if I'm one spore below the limit or a thousand.

One of the biggest problems I found is that the industry doesn't seem to
have much oversight. In my state, they just passed a law (goes into
effect in 2010) that mold remed companies must have home improvement
licenses; they don't now. There seem to be lots and lots of "air
quality" and "water damage" organizations that have their own sets of
certifications, although some of them sound rather like the "close
matchbook before striking" types of schools. And the biggest problem is
there are no "standards" of what any of the readings should be. There
are only "industry guidelines" and even those don't seem to be published
anywhere that the public can find them. So if one of my readings is
1500, and the outside tester says that is "within guidelines", I can't
find out if I'm one spore below the limit or a thousand.
just what we need more government oversight.