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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean off
the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer itself. I
started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel to get the
rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my plan, just my
thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
....
All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


No. If anything, the rusty surface will tend to inhibit or slow down
additional oxidation of the material as it tends to act as a barrier.
Cleaning the rust layer off exposes fresh material to be oxidized.

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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean
off the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer
itself. I started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel
to get the rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my
plan, just my thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would
be, does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other
surface more apt to rust?


There is nothing in rust - iron oxide - to cause iron to rust as it is
stable. However, rust is sort of porous and that means it could retain
moisture and *that* would cause rust in the unrusted and unprotected
surface.

--

dadiOH
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

Blattus Slafaly wrote:
....
...Back in early earth history before oxygen, ... ?????


--
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

DerbyDad03 wrote:

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean
off the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer itself.
I started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel to get
the rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my plan, just
my thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would
be, does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other
surface more apt to rust?


The surfaces would have to be clean and not exposed to air or water in
order not to rust, right? A rusty metal coating would probably
encapsulate small amounts of residual rust and so exclude air and
water. Otherwise, rust will continue. Don't ask for sources.......just
my logic at work ) Now, if all rust is removed but differing metals
are in contact then I think you get electrolysis. Never seen that, but
it eats up some metals.


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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:40:56 -0400, DerbyDad03
wrote:

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean off
the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer itself. I
started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel to get the
rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my plan, just my
thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


Yes. Rust retains moisture.

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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

On Oct 11, 8:40*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


Yep.

Rust Never Sleeps- Neil Young
-----

- gpsman
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

dpb writes:

Blattus Slafaly wrote:
...
...Back in early earth history before oxygen, ... ?????


Free oxygen in the atmosphere comes from plants.
Scientists believe, before plants evolved there was no
free oxygen in the atmosphere.

Sounds right to me.
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

Dan Espen wrote:
dpb writes:

Blattus Slafaly wrote:
...
...Back in early earth history before oxygen, ... ?????


Free oxygen in the atmosphere comes from plants.
Scientists believe, before plants evolved there was no
free oxygen in the atmosphere.

Sounds right to me.


Some of that's right, some of it isn't...

--


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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

On Oct 11, 11:48*am, wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:40:56 -0400, DerbyDad03
wrote:

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean off
the rust, re-paint, etc.


There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer itself. I
started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel to get the
rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my plan, just my
thoughts as I was working.)


All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


The only rust that actually protects the metal is rust on CorTen
steel, a special alloy


Bluing or browning of firearms is controlled oxidation to protect the
surface but you still need to keep oiled to prevent rust.
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

dpb wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
...
All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would
be, does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other
surface more apt to rust?


No. If anything, the rusty surface will tend to inhibit or slow down
additional oxidation of the material as it tends to act as a barrier.
Cleaning the rust layer off exposes fresh material to be oxidized.

--

Chuckle. Learned that the hard way a few times. Prep the metal one day,
get tired, figure I'll paint in the morning. Wrong. End up going over
the whole thing again, even though the flash of rust was paper-thin.
Rust Never Sleeps, indeed. Learned at a young age about waxing saw
blades and table saw beds. Not much sadder looking than a rusty table saw.

--
aem sends...
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

dpb writes:

Dan Espen wrote:
dpb writes:

Blattus Slafaly wrote:
...
...Back in early earth history before oxygen, ... ?????

Free oxygen in the atmosphere comes from plants.
Scientists believe, before plants evolved there was no
free oxygen in the atmosphere.
Sounds right to me.


Some of that's right, some of it isn't...


First you ask a question then you tell me the answer isn't right?

How do scientists know free oxygen increased in our atmosphere?

Beginning about 3.5 bya, banded iron ore deposits began to form
underwater. Reduced iron (without oxygen) and silica washed into the
ocean, combined with oxygen produced by algae, and settled together
in banded layers. About 2 bya oceans saturated with oxygen released
free oxygen to the atmosphere. Reduced iron no longer existed on
the surface; banded iron ore deposits ceased to form.
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

Norminn wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean
off the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer itself.
I started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel to get
the rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my plan, just
my thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would
be, does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other
surface more apt to rust?


The surfaces would have to be clean and not exposed to air or water in
order not to rust, right? A rusty metal coating would probably
encapsulate small amounts of residual rust and so exclude air and
water. Otherwise, rust will continue. Don't ask for sources.......just
my logic at work ) Now, if all rust is removed but differing metals
are in contact then I think you get electrolysis. Never seen that, but
it eats up some metals.


Now, if all rust is removed but differing metals are in contact then
I think you get electrolysis. Never seen that, but it eats up some metals.

I've seen it first hand. Back when the kids were babies, I had a Subaru.
I belted the car seat into the back seat and gave it a tug as I
always did. The seat belt bracket pulled right out of the floor.

The seat belt was bolted through the floorboard and into a plate on the
under side of the car. I can't tell you what the 2 metals were, but they
were definitely different. The plate pulled through the floorboard in
the exact oval shape of the plate. There was no other rust any where in
the area.

I took it all the way up to the regional manager for the North East with
no satisfaction since the car was out of warranty (60K miles on it at
the time). To them it was just a rust problem. To me, it was one hard
stop away from my kid flying into the back of the front seat.
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
Norminn wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean
off the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer
itself. I started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel
to get the rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my
plan, just my thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would
be, does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other
surface more apt to rust?


The surfaces would have to be clean and not exposed to air or water in
order not to rust, right? A rusty metal coating would probably
encapsulate small amounts of residual rust and so exclude air and
water. Otherwise, rust will continue. Don't ask for
sources.......just my logic at work ) Now, if all rust is removed
but differing metals are in contact then I think you get
electrolysis. Never seen that, but it eats up some metals.


Now, if all rust is removed but differing metals are in contact then
I think you get electrolysis. Never seen that, but it eats up some metals.

I've seen it first hand. Back when the kids were babies, I had a Subaru.
I belted the car seat into the back seat and gave it a tug as I
always did. The seat belt bracket pulled right out of the floor.

The seat belt was bolted through the floorboard and into a plate on the
under side of the car. I can't tell you what the 2 metals were, but they
were definitely different. The plate pulled through the floorboard in
the exact oval shape of the plate. There was no other rust any where in
the area.

I took it all the way up to the regional manager for the North East with
no satisfaction since the car was out of warranty (60K miles on it at
the time). To them it was just a rust problem. To me, it was one hard
stop away from my kid flying into the back of the front seat.


Shoulda reported it on the NHSTA web site. I know smog stuff is covered
to 100k by federal edict, I thought safety stuff was too. Seat belt
mounting points tearing out of the pan definitely sounds recall-worthy
to me. Now that I think about it, I had an 83 Mustang where the
hardpoints for the front seat basically tore out of the pan, and the pan
cracked at a fold point. But I just blacksmithed a hillbilly repair
myself. (12 ga galvanized sheet metal plate over roofing tar, and peened
bolts with big washers, through all the layers. Crude, but effective.)

--
aem sends...


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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:40:56 -0400, DerbyDad03
wrote:

A question entered my mind as I was sprucing up my utility trailer. I
removed the strap hinges and closure brackets, etc. so I could clean off
the rust, re-paint, etc.

There are lots of mating surfaces where rust was present on both
surfaces, such as the back of the hinge plates and the trailer itself. I
started wondering what would happen if I used a wire wheel to get the
rust off one surface, but not the other. (That's not my plan, just my
thoughts as I was working.)

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


The existing rust is likely a catalyst, but I suspect oxygen is much
more important in making rust.
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

DerbyDad03 wrote:

All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


Well that is an interesting question, on my table saw, it sure seemed to. But then, I
brown a rifle barrel and then oil it for protection.

I tend to think of rust as a sponge. Untreated it absorbs moisture, treated, it holds
oil.

I have a feeling there are many opinions. Best to never let rust start.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

On Oct 12, 7:22�pm, Wes wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
All other things being equal (weather, moisture, etc) as they would be,
does the mere presence of rust on one surface make the other surface
more apt to rust?


Well that is an interesting question, on my table saw, it sure seemed to. �But then, I
brown a rifle barrel and then oil it for protection.

I tend to think of rust as a sponge. �Untreated it absorbs moisture, treated, it holds
oil.

I have a feeling there are many opinions. �Best to never let rust start.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." �Dick Anthony Heller


a friend had the hifdden rust problem. he put grease on everything
that was 2 layers. end of problem.

under his vehicles he sprays used drain oil mixed with parafin. yucky
mess but no rust.

I stopped rust in bottoms of my car doors by sprayng inside with motor
oil
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Default Does Rust Breed Rust?

wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:35:08 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

my wifes car had repeated flats when temperatures changed. one
aluminum wheel got damaged and was reploaced with a steel one. the
steel one never went flat.

tire store showed me the aluminum oxidation, I replaced all wheels
with steel ones, that ended the seasonal flats

I've had leaking problems on every car I have ever had with aluminum
wheels. The bead seal gets iffy when temps get chilly. Not flats, just
won't hold over 20 pounds on one or more tires. I finally found a tire
shop with the right goop to paint the rims with when mounting them, and
the problems went away.

--


If you clean the rims with steel wool and wipe a thin film of Dow
Corning 111 on them they won't leak. This is similar to spark plug
boot grease.

Well, not having a tire mounting machine of my own, I am pretty much at
the mercy of the fellows at the local tire stores, for cures to this
kind of problem. Mayhaps this Dow 111 you spoke of is what they used.
The shop specializes in fancy wheels for people that like fancy wheels,
so they evidently learned to do it correctly to reduce their cost for
reworks. My wheels were not fancy, just the factory 'premium' wheels.
Not being rich enough to buy new cars, I am pretty much stuck with
whatever they have on them. If I were to buy a new car, it would have
steel wheels and dog-dish hubcaps, just to keep the mud off the lugs.

--
aem sends...

--
aem sends...
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