Dan Musicant wrote:
This is my first crack at concrete. Small job and I figure I'll need a
bit over 1.5 cubic feet, and I'm planning to do the work this
afternoon. I've almost finished my forms and am reading the
instructions in my Reader's Digest Complete DIY book.

I read the instructions on the bag of Quickcrete (60 lb.) I bought,
and it says to use 4 quarts of water with it, maximum 5 quarts.
There's no mention of how many cubic feet (or inches, I figure a
cubic foot is 1725 cubic inches) I can expect to get out of a 60 lb.
bag. I don't want to mix much more than I'll need, and figure a sure
don't want to mix less. How do I determine how much to mix?

To extend the mix, I figure to put in some crushed concrete or rocks I
have. I have tons of that stuff around (maybe literally!), and figure
I'll crush some with a sledge hammer. Not much, just some near the
bottom of the pour.


Get another bag. Mix up one bag. If it's not enough, mix up the second.

Unmixed concrete doesn't keep very long. It sucks the moisture out of the
air.

Hint 1: A wheelbarrow makes an excellent mixing venue.
Hint 2. Start mixing with much less water than you think you'll need. Add a
little bit at a time. It is VERY easy to use too much water.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 14:30:23 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

an Musicant wrote:
: This is my first crack at concrete. Small job and I figure I'll need a
: bit over 1.5 cubic feet, and I'm planning to do the work this
: afternoon. I've almost finished my forms and am reading the
: instructions in my Reader's Digest Complete DIY book.
:
: I read the instructions on the bag of Quickcrete (60 lb.) I bought,
: and it says to use 4 quarts of water with it, maximum 5 quarts.
: There's no mention of how many cubic feet (or inches, I figure a
: cubic foot is 1725 cubic inches) I can expect to get out of a 60 lb.
: bag. I don't want to mix much more than I'll need, and figure a sure
: don't want to mix less. How do I determine how much to mix?
:
: To extend the mix, I figure to put in some crushed concrete or rocks I
: have. I have tons of that stuff around (maybe literally!), and figure
: I'll crush some with a sledge hammer. Not much, just some near the
: bottom of the pour.
:
:
:Get another bag. Mix up one bag. If it's not enough, mix up the second.
:
:Unmixed concrete doesn't keep very long. It sucks the moisture out of the
:air.
:
:Hint 1: A wheelbarrow makes an excellent mixing venue.
:Hint 2. Start mixing with much less water than you think you'll need. Add a
:little bit at a time. It is VERY easy to use too much water.
:
OK, thanks. I'll go buy another bag. Even so, I figure I'll have to add
rock, I probably have a couple of tons in the yard! I have to break up
some, though. Did some already.l

I wish I was doing something as easy as a post, It's actually a tricky
little border. The one that's there for some reason they didn't complete
it and the rest was done with unmortared bricks, just stacked there.
Tired of realigning the bricks I decided to complete the raised concrete
border, which requires forms and some care so the whole thing matches.

I have a wheelbarrow I can use. I saw a crew do some concrete work in my
yard around a year ago and have an idea how to go about it. They did a
trenchless sewer replacement. I enjoyed watching them do the concrete.

Dan

wrote:
....
OK, thanks. I'll go buy another bag. Even so, I figure I'll have to add
rock, I probably have a couple of tons in the yard! I have to break up
some, though. Did some already.l

Get two, once you're started you won't have time for a trip.

....

I have a wheelbarrow I can use. I saw a crew do some concrete work in my
yard around a year ago and have an idea how to go about it. ...

You have a trowel and edging tool to use to put a finish on it?

--

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:20:08 -0500, dpb wrote:

wrote:
:...
: OK, thanks. I'll go buy another bag. Even so, I figure I'll have to add
: rock, I probably have a couple of tons in the yard! I have to break up
: some, though. Did some already.l
:
:Get two, once you're started you won't have time for a trip.
:
:...
:
: I have a wheelbarrow I can use. I saw a crew do some concrete work in my
: yard around a year ago and have an idea how to go about it. ...
:
:You have a trowel and edging tool to use to put a finish on it?

Well, don't have an edging tool and thought of making or buying one but
the concrete edging I'm duplicating here doesn't really have an edge.
The edge is basically sharp, or almost, so I'm not concerned about it. I
do have a trowel.

I bought only one extra bag, but it proved more than enough. I wound up
using a little over 1 1/2 bags. I mixed one, used it and then mixed the
other.

What I decided was that I'd dug down too far and I filled in a lot of
the trough with dirt. I think it was really too deep and a waste of
concrete.

I think it probably came out pretty OK, but won't know for sure until
it's cured, I guess. I don't know when to remove the forms. Should I
wait 5 days until the concrete's cured?

I was disappointed in the Quikcrete. It seemed to me that there was too
large a proportion of rocks, not enough cement. It was a LOT of work
getting a smooth surface. Maybe I didn't put in enough water, but
instructions I read suggested that too much water is apt to produce
crumbly concrete, whereas too little will produce concrete that's hard
to work. Rather than risk the former, I went with being maybe bit
conservative in the amount of water.

To cure, I think I'm supposed to keep it damp. How important is that?
It's supposed to rain here starting in a couple of days for maybe 1/2 a
day.

Dan

wrote:

Well, don't have an edging tool and thought of making or buying one
but the concrete edging I'm duplicating here doesn't really have an
edge. The edge is basically sharp, or almost, so I'm not concerned
about it. I do have a trowel.

I bought only one extra bag, but it proved more than enough. I wound
up using a little over 1 1/2 bags. I mixed one, used it and then
mixed the other.

What I decided was that I'd dug down too far and I filled in a lot of
the trough with dirt. I think it was really too deep and a waste of
concrete.

I think it probably came out pretty OK, but won't know for sure until
it's cured, I guess. I don't know when to remove the forms. Should I
wait 5 days until the concrete's cured?

You can remove the forms after an hour or so. I watched a professional
crew do a driveway ramp last month at a Habitat for Humanity house, and
they took off the forms after 30 minutes.

I was disappointed in the Quikcrete. It seemed to me that there was
too large a proportion of rocks, not enough cement. It was a LOT of
work getting a smooth surface. Maybe I didn't put in enough water, but
instructions I read suggested that too much water is apt to produce
crumbly concrete, whereas too little will produce concrete that's hard
to work. Rather than risk the former, I went with being maybe bit
conservative in the amount of water.

Quikcrete is fast-setting, hence the name. You only have about 15
minutes to mix it, pour it, and work it, maybe a little longer if you
mix it wet. Sakcrete is the regular stuff, with the long open time.

I like the consistency to be about like peanut butter.

To cure, I think I'm supposed to keep it damp. How important is that?
It's supposed to rain here starting in a couple of days for maybe 1/2
a day.

Don't worry about it. It's already cured. You used Quikcrete, remember?
You can spray it lightly with the hose a couple of times per day if you
want, and you can put some old tote sacks over it to keep it moist
longer. The "keep it moist" recommendation is for big jobs, like a
slab, where you worry about cracks.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 03:46:18 +0000 (UTC), "SteveBell"
wrote:

:Quikcrete is fast-setting, hence the name. You only have about 15
:minutes to mix it, pour it, and work it, maybe a little longer if you
:mix it wet. Sakcrete is the regular stuff, with the long open time.

I took a lot longer than that. It wasn't too warm. Maybe 72-70, and the
sun was obscured by clouds. It was damn hard to smooth the surface
though, but I resisted the temptation to add water. I did spray one area
a tiny bit with water.
:
:I like the consistency to be about like peanut butter.

Must be the chunkiest damn peanut butter ever. To me it seemed like
almost all rocks.
:
: To cure, I think I'm supposed to keep it damp. How important is that?
: It's supposed to rain here starting in a couple of days for maybe 1/2
: a day.
:
on't worry about it. It's already cured. You used Quikcrete, remember?
:You can spray it lightly with the hose a couple of times per day if you
:want, and you can put some old tote sacks over it to keep it moist
:longer. The "keep it moist" recommendation is for big jobs, like a
:slab, where you worry about cracks.

Next time I'll look for slower stuff. I was in no hurry. It seems set OK
now. The sides are very rough, though. Since they were against the forms
I had no chance to smooth them with the trowel. I did try to force the
mix down very will with a narrow tamping tool, but even so, the sides
are just stones exposed. Only the top is smooth.

Here are some pictures:

Rough sides:
http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user... ughsides.jpg

Is there something I can do to fill in the sides? I figure it will hold
up, it just looks lousy.

Forms:
http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user...le=Fo rms.jpg

Net effect:
http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user...e teffect.jpg


Dan

wrote:

Rough sides:

http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user... ughsides.jpg

Is there something I can do to fill in the sides? I figure it will
hold up, it just looks lousy.

Forms:

http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user...le=Fo rms.jpg

Net effect:

http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user...e teffect.jpg

You needed more water. Oh well, live and learn. It will work just fine.

Let the concrete cure for a few weeks (or months if you want) until it
gets its final color, then apply some sanded mortar. The store will
have a color chart you can use to get the best match. I have a Mapei
(brand name) chart that must have 60 different colors, so there's bound
to be one that will suit you.

Heck, go wild and cover the whole border with the nice turquoise color.
;-)

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

wrote:
....
Next time I'll look for slower stuff. I was in no hurry. It seems set OK
now. The sides are very rough, though. Since they were against the forms
I had no chance to smooth them with the trowel. I did try to force the
mix down very will with a narrow tamping tool, but even so, the sides
are just stones exposed. Only the top is smooth.

Here are some pictures:

Rough sides:
....

Too dry--it's got to have enough liquidity that it will flow and this
obviously didn't.

Is there something I can do to fill in the sides? I figure it will hold
up, it just looks lousy.
....
Now you can use another Quikrete product!

Either the vinyl patching concrete or the surface repair will work. I'd
do either right away, however, while the other is still green and damp
for better bonding.

I've had good success on the old barn foundation w/ some chips, etc.,
that weren't very deep w/ it holding using the vinyl patch.

The stucco overcoat isn't bad idea other then doing whole thing rather
than patching the new section only...of course, that has the advantage
of it then does all have same finish.

--

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:51:37 -0500, wrote:

:On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:23:38 -0700, Dan Musicant )
:wrote:
:
:I was disappointed in the Quikcrete. It seemed to me that there was too
:large a proportion of rocks, not enough cement. It was a LOT of work
:getting a smooth surface. Maybe I didn't put in enough water, but
:instructions I read suggested that too much water is apt to produce
:crumbly concrete, whereas too little will produce concrete that's hard
:to work. Rather than risk the former, I went with being maybe bit
:conservative in the amount of water.
:
:I have always felt that Quickcrete (all brands), never contain enough
:raw cement. It's weak. I either mix my own using sand, stone, and
ortland cement, or if the job is real small I use Quickcrete, but I
:add a little more portland cement. (I bought a bag of portland some
:years ago, and keep it in a well sealed plastic pail).

THAT idea I like! Portland cement to supplement the Quikcrete. It was
murder getting that stuff smooth. I was just lucky I didn't have a lot
to do. Less than 2 square feet to smooth. It was tricky, though. There
was a tight corner where I couldn't use my trowel and I used a small
wood & compressed board one I made many years ago. Lucky I had that.

:
:As far as keeping it moist, for a small job like yours, wet rags over
:the pour work well. Saves soaking it several times a day. In hot
:weather, a tarp or plastic trash bags over the rags help too.
:
ont wait 5 days to remove forms. They will be hard to remove.
:Remove within 24 hours. In hot weather that can mean an hour after
:the pouring, but I prefer to wait several hours to avoid sag. You can
:usually tell when it's set.

I'll remove the forms today for sure. Thanks.

Dan

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:09:27 -0400, wrote:

:On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:51:37 -0500, wrote:
:
:I have always felt that Quickcrete (all brands), never contain enough
:raw cement. It's weak.
:
:Not true at all. This is typically 3500 or 4000 psi

OK, so I guess my problem was that I didn't add enough water.

Dan

"Dan Musicant" wrote

Dan, I was hunting up thre quickcrete site and noted the forms for making a
brick-look. Seemed easy. Is that what you are doing? I may do it here.
The simple standard brick look seems right for this project.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:17:01 -0400, in alt.home.repair you wrote:

:"Dan Musicant" wrote
:
an, I was hunting up thre quickcrete site and noted the forms for making a
:brick-look. Seemed easy. Is that what you are doing? I may do it here.
:The simple standard brick look seems right for this project.

I'll try to describe what I did. Just next to my house there's a small
rectangular patch of ground with plants. It's about 3.5 feet by 12 feet.
On one long side is the side of the house, red brick. On the other 3
sides is a concrete surround, raised about 4 inches above the concrete
patio. For some reason, one of the shorts sides was missing, and a very
short portion of the long side. I put in the missing concrete today.

Dan

"Dan Musicant" wrote

an, I was hunting up thre quickcrete site and noted the forms for making
a
:brick-look. Seemed easy. Is that what you are doing? I may do it here.
:The simple standard brick look seems right for this project.

I'll try to describe what I did. Just next to my house there's a small
rectangular patch of ground with plants. It's about 3.5 feet by 12 feet.
On one long side is the side of the house, red brick. On the other 3
sides is a concrete surround, raised about 4 inches above the concrete
patio. For some reason, one of the shorts sides was missing, and a very
short portion of the long side. I put in the missing concrete today.

Ok thanks! Not the same project we need but interesting thread to me! Kind
of the 'learn something new each day'.

I am wondering if those quickcrete molds (see, about 2x2) work well. They
let you use quickcrete to make a sort of faux brick or stone walkway. I
need something all along the ground level sunroom addition we made, or the
mud from rain drops splatters the screens and glass. I was thinking in our
case, a double wide set (about 4ft out) would meet our needs. The other
idea was a 3ft or so suround of ground level trex decking but we havent the
money for that just now.

I liked the look best of the simple 'brick' mold where you add their
colorant to make it terra cotta. I am lucky as they have a store near me.

Now, to see (possibly in a separate post so as to not mess up yours) if any
have any experience with this sort of need, and what they found.

On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:07:28 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

:"Dan Musicant" wrote
:
: an, I was hunting up thre quickcrete site and noted the forms for making
: a
: :brick-look. Seemed easy. Is that what you are doing? I may do it here.
: :The simple standard brick look seems right for this project.
:
: I'll try to describe what I did. Just next to my house there's a small
: rectangular patch of ground with plants. It's about 3.5 feet by 12 feet.
: On one long side is the side of the house, red brick. On the other 3
: sides is a concrete surround, raised about 4 inches above the concrete
: patio. For some reason, one of the shorts sides was missing, and a very
: short portion of the long side. I put in the missing concrete today.
:
:Ok thanks! Not the same project we need but interesting thread to me! Kind
f the 'learn something new each day'.
:
:I am wondering if those quickcrete molds (see, about 2x2) work well. They
:let you use quickcrete to make a sort of faux brick or stone walkway. I
:need something all along the ground level sunroom addition we made, or the
:mud from rain drops splatters the screens and glass. I was thinking in our
:case, a double wide set (about 4ft out) would meet our needs. The other
:idea was a 3ft or so suround of ground level trex decking but we havent the
:money for that just now.
:
:I liked the look best of the simple 'brick' mold where you add their
:colorant to make it terra cotta. I am lucky as they have a store near me.
:
:Now, to see (possibly in a separate post so as to not mess up yours) if any
:have any experience with this sort of need, and what they found.
:
My back yard has some faux brick concrete work.

A tip or two: I used my wheelbarrow, a nice big 6 cubic footer. Use a
garden hoe to mix, mix, mix the Quikcrete (or any other concrete
mixture, even one you make yourself from Portland cement, sand and
aggregate) with the water. I have 3 hoes, and one was perfect. The
corners are rounded, so it doesn't scratch up my wheelbarrow. I cleaned
the thing out afterward. I don't want my wheelbarrow looking like the
one the plumbers used when they did my sewer lines!

My little project here came out pretty well. The portion I did actually
looks a lot better than the stuff it was completing, which wasn't too
sharp.

Dan

"Dan Musicant" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

:Ok thanks! Not the same project we need but interesting thread to me!
Kind
f the 'learn something new each day'.

My back yard has some faux brick concrete work.

Good! That seems the cheapest easiest way to go for us. Thats a high
concern as we've had $25,000 in repairs since since return (would be closer
to $50,000 had we not been handy folks able to do much of it ourselves).
Just bad luck of the draw with tenants but at least they kept us with enough
from rent that we still own a house.

A tip or two: I used my wheelbarrow, a nice big 6 cubic footer. Use a
garden hoe to mix, mix, mix the Quikcrete (or any other concrete
mixture, even one you make yourself from Portland cement, sand and
aggregate) with the water. I have 3 hoes, and one was perfect. The
corners are rounded, so it doesn't scratch up my wheelbarrow. I cleaned
the thing out afterward. I don't want my wheelbarrow looking like the
one the plumbers used when they did my sewer lines!

Grin, good point. I have a cat liter bucket I was going to try to use. One
of those tidy-cat plastic things but it may be hard to mix properly in that.
My only wheelbarrow is plastic and cracked at the bottom. My own fault
there, when stacking the 2 cords of wood, I dropped some pieces from too far
up and it caused that. Still works for all other needs.

Thinking... I have lots of construction grade (thick mill) plastic in big
pieces I can use to line that wheelbarrow. If a little seeps though, it
wont be a problem. Alternative is a bonus left from the renters, a large
cat litter pan we found tucked in the rafters in the garage last week
(grin). Seems that would work too.

My little project here came out pretty well. The portion I did actually
looks a lot better than the stuff it was completing, which wasn't too
sharp.

Hehehe sometimes, thats the way of it. I've not done *much* work with
cement but I have done small odd jobs over the years with little batches.
Most 'recent' (if you can call 2000 'recent') before this was a nearby
neighbor who's retired (limited fixed income), and crumbled back steps.
Quite elderly with arthritis in the hips so this was both dangerous for him,
and beyond his ability to fix. Other than replacing his steps with pre-made
'blocks' and just mortaring them in with a little cement we mixed up, all my
other projects have had others do the 'cement detail' while I sorta watched
if not doing some other task.

(OT but a sideline of mine from 1989-2001 was about 10 hours a month helping
people with disabilities, make adaptions they needed but couldnt pay for.
Mostly I built or adapted computers for the blind with screen reader
software but i also did a fair amount of making ramps and things like that
as part of a group. Many fine memories of working with and for people but
(grin) not much personal cement work on my own part. Oh and yes, one of the
members was a proper certified inspector and would run the permits for us if
the particular job in his estimation required one. Like many things, you do
what you can).

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:27:25 -0400, wrote:

:On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:01:45 -0700, Dan Musicant )
:wrote:
:
:On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 14:30:23 -0500, "HeyBub"
:wrote:
:
:an Musicant wrote:
:: This is my first crack at concrete. Small job and I figure I'll need a
:: bit over 1.5 cubic feet, and I'm planning to do the work this
:: afternoon. I've almost finished my forms and am reading the
:: instructions in my Reader's Digest Complete DIY book.
::
:: I read the instructions on the bag of Quickcrete (60 lb.) I bought,
:: and it says to use 4 quarts of water with it, maximum 5 quarts.
:: There's no mention of how many cubic feet (or inches, I figure a
:: cubic foot is 1725 cubic inches) I can expect to get out of a 60 lb.
:: bag. I don't want to mix much more than I'll need, and figure a sure
:: don't want to mix less. How do I determine how much to mix?
::
:: To extend the mix, I figure to put in some crushed concrete or rocks I
:: have. I have tons of that stuff around (maybe literally!), and figure
:: I'll crush some with a sledge hammer. Not much, just some near the
:: bottom of the pour.
::
::
::Get another bag. Mix up one bag. If it's not enough, mix up the second.
::
::Unmixed concrete doesn't keep very long. It sucks the moisture out of the
::air.
::
::Hint 1: A wheelbarrow makes an excellent mixing venue.
::Hint 2. Start mixing with much less water than you think you'll need. Add a
::little bit at a time. It is VERY easy to use too much water.
::
:OK, thanks. I'll go buy another bag. Even so, I figure I'll have to add
:rock, I probably have a couple of tons in the yard! I have to break up
:some, though. Did some already.l
:
:I wish I was doing something as easy as a post, It's actually a tricky
:little border. The one that's there for some reason they didn't complete
:it and the rest was done with unmortared bricks, just stacked there.
:Tired of realigning the bricks I decided to complete the raised concrete
:border, which requires forms and some care so the whole thing matches.
:
:I have a wheelbarrow I can use. I saw a crew do some concrete work in my
:yard around a year ago and have an idea how to go about it. They did a
:trenchless sewer replacement. I enjoyed watching them do the concrete.
:
:Dan
:
:Concrete is cheap. If this is something more than fence posts, don't
:try to save 4 bucks using rocks. If I was figuring 1.5 cu/ft I would
:get 4 60s and have one left over if I was right but you don't want to
:be 1.45 yards in and run out. (or just put in too much water and need
:some more concrete mix to get it right). Kept in a drywall bucket with
:a good top it lasts quite a while if you don't mix it up..

Yes, it was pretty cheap. I got two 60 lb. bags of Quikcrete concrete
mix for under $5. I decided I didn't really need 1.5 cu. ft., more like
..75. I did put some rocks in there, but it turned out I really didn't
need those because I had a fair amount left over (mixed).

Dan