O.K. Heres my problem. Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.

Unfortunately, the power coming off the GFCI seems to be on 110v ( 2
lines 110v each = 220v). This is a four wire hookup ( black, red,
white, ground). It seems that I need a 3 wire hookup for the sauna
( black, white, ground). However, no matter how I wire this sauna
heater, I seem to be only getting 110v to the elements.

Went to local hardware store and bought a 40 amp 120/240 v SINGLE pole
breaker was told that that the breaker should recognize whether the
appliance needs either 110v or 240 v and would give accordingly.
Unfortunately, when only hooking up, I still only receive 110 v to the
heater according to both my multimeter and a simple circuit tester.
Out of the 4 wire going to the sauna, I only hooked up black, white,
and ground, and just left the red dangling.

Am I missing something here? Is it possible to force 240v out of
single wire hookup? If so, how? Thanks.

On Sep 16, 1:13*pm, hdivr wrote:

snip

Am I missing something here? *Is it possible to force 240v out of
single wire hookup? *If so, how? *Thanks.

Your original GFCI should work OK, so hook up red and black to the
terminals. Of course you can't 'force' 240 V where it doesn't
exist..Recheck your sauna wiring diagram to make sure you don't need
120V for the controls. If so, the neutral must be present at the
heaters controls. HTh

Joe

hdivr wrote:
O.K. Heres my problem. Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.

In simple terms, the 240 volt circuit is two 120 volt circuits with
respect to the white neutral wire. Connect the breakers as they were
originally and measure between the red and black leads. You should get
240 volts.

Unless you want to risk electrocution in your new sauna, you should
entrust the installation to someone more familiar with 240 volt wiring,
or study references more thorough and trustworthy than Usenet.

This marginal advice is presented without any warranty, expressed or
implied.

On Sep 16, 1:41*pm, Bob wrote:
hdivr wrote:
O.K. *Heres my problem. *Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. *Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. *I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.

In simple terms, the 240 volt circuit is two 120 volt circuits with
respect to the white neutral wire. *Connect the breakers as they were
originally and measure between the red and black leads. *You should get
240 volts.

Unless you want to risk electrocution in your new sauna, you should
entrust the installation to someone more familiar with 240 volt wiring,
or study references more thorough and trustworthy than Usenet.

This marginal advice is presented without any warranty, expressed or
implied.

Yes, if I test between the black and red they will show 240v.
However, doesn't that mean that each element is only being powered by
110v? The schematic on the heater is different than the instruction
manual. On the heater, it shows a single L1 line (240v) that powers
the entire heater and that all three elements are "jumpered" with a
metal clip. However in the manual, they show both a L1 and L2 wire
hooked up seperately to different elements and the third element
doesn't appear to be hooked up. (I can jumper the third element to
the second, but when checking with my multimeter, it only shows 110v
being directed to each element (with the end of the tester being held
to ground.

Am I reading this wrong? Should I only be reading the multimeter and
tester across the two terminals to get 240v and not reading each Line
against grounding to bare metal?

On Sep 16, 3:57*pm, hdivr wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:41*pm, Bob wrote:





hdivr wrote:
O.K. *Heres my problem. *Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. *Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. *I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.

In simple terms, the 240 volt circuit is two 120 volt circuits with
respect to the white neutral wire. *Connect the breakers as they were
originally and measure between the red and black leads. *You should get
240 volts.

Unless you want to risk electrocution in your new sauna, you should
entrust the installation to someone more familiar with 240 volt wiring,
or study references more thorough and trustworthy than Usenet.

This marginal advice is presented without any warranty, expressed or
implied.

Yes, if I test between the black and red they will show 240v.
However, doesn't that mean that each element is only being powered by
110v? * The schematic on the heater is different than the instruction
manual. *On the heater, it shows a single L1 line (240v) that powers
the entire heater and that all three elements are "jumpered" with a
metal clip. *However in the manual, they show both a L1 and L2 wire
hooked up seperately to different elements and the *third element
doesn't appear to be hooked up. * (I can jumper the third element to
the second, but when checking with my multimeter, it only shows 110v
being directed to each element (with the end of the tester being held
to ground.

Am I reading this wrong?

Who knows what exactly you are looking at. When the install manula
is unclear and you don't know what you're doing, I'd suggest following
the previous poster's advice and getting an electrician or someone to
do it who knows what they are doing.



*Should I only be reading the multimeter and
tester across the two terminals to get 240v and not reading each Line
against grounding to bare metal?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. You get 240V between the two out of phase hots and 120V between
each of them and neutral or ground.

"hdivr" wrote in message
...
O.K. Heres my problem. Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.

Unfortunately, the power coming off the GFCI seems to be on 110v ( 2
lines 110v each = 220v). This is a four wire hookup ( black, red,
white, ground). It seems that I need a 3 wire hookup for the sauna
( black, white, ground). However, no matter how I wire this sauna
heater, I seem to be only getting 110v to the elements.

Went to local hardware store and bought a 40 amp 120/240 v SINGLE pole
breaker was told that that the breaker should recognize whether the
appliance needs either 110v or 240 v and would give accordingly.
Unfortunately, when only hooking up, I still only receive 110 v to the
heater according to both my multimeter and a simple circuit tester.
Out of the 4 wire going to the sauna, I only hooked up black, white,
and ground, and just left the red dangling.

Am I missing something here? Is it possible to force 240v out of
single wire hookup? If so, how? Thanks.

Usually these things come with terminals for power connection, and control
connection. It sounds like you're looking at an internal wiring schematic

Thanks to all replies. Hooked it up and finally got it checked out.

hdivr wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:41 pm, Bob wrote:
hdivr wrote:
O.K. Heres my problem. Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.
In simple terms, the 240 volt circuit is two 120 volt circuits with
respect to the white neutral wire. Connect the breakers as they were
originally and measure between the red and black leads. You should get
240 volts.

Unless you want to risk electrocution in your new sauna, you should
entrust the installation to someone more familiar with 240 volt wiring,
or study references more thorough and trustworthy than Usenet.

This marginal advice is presented without any warranty, expressed or
implied.

Yes, if I test between the black and red they will show 240v.
However, doesn't that mean that each element is only being powered by
110v? The schematic on the heater is different than the instruction
manual. On the heater, it shows a single L1 line (240v) that powers
the entire heater and that all three elements are "jumpered" with a
metal clip. However in the manual, they show both a L1 and L2 wire
hooked up seperately to different elements and the third element
doesn't appear to be hooked up. (I can jumper the third element to
the second, but when checking with my multimeter, it only shows 110v
being directed to each element (with the end of the tester being held
to ground.

Am I reading this wrong? Should I only be reading the multimeter and
tester across the two terminals to get 240v and not reading each Line
against grounding to bare metal?

Hi,
If the heater element is for 240V, they should be parallel connected
between L1 and L2 where your 240V goes.

On Sep 16, 4:13*pm, hdivr wrote:
O.K. *Heres my problem. *Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. *Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. *I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.

Unfortunately, the power coming off the GFCI seems to be on 110v ( 2
lines 110v each = 220v). *This is a four wire hookup ( black, red,
white, ground). *It seems that I need a 3 wire hookup for the sauna
( black, white, ground). *However, no matter how I wire this sauna
heater, I seem to be only getting 110v to the elements.

Went to local hardware store and bought a 40 amp 120/240 v SINGLE pole
breaker was told that that the breaker should recognize whether the
appliance needs either 110v or 240 v and would give accordingly.
Unfortunately, when only hooking up, I still only receive 110 v to the
heater according to both my multimeter and a simple circuit tester.
Out of the 4 wire going to the sauna, I only hooked up black, white,
and ground, and just left the red dangling.

Am I missing something here? *Is it possible to force 240v out of
single wire hookup? *If so, how? *Thanks.

Geez. Get someone who knows what they are doing before somebody gets
electrocuted!
Also check your insurance policy a) Home insurance; property and
personal liability, in case something catches fire or is not grounded
correctly. b) Personal life insurance in case you are not around!

Making a lot of assumptions; if the previous installation had a 50 amp
double pole breaker the previous (existing) wiring is adequate for the
new item?

Without seeing the hook up diagram hard to tell if the new unit needs
all three wires Red, black, white AND GROUND. Or it works with only
Red and black AND GROUND.

The hardware person either does not know waht they are talking about
or you misunderstood!
230 volt appliances (using typical North American domestic wiring) use
red and black PLUS GROUND and some case also need the white neutral
wire.

See paragraph one; get some help before you blow something inside the
new unit that operates on 115 volts by connecting it inadvertently to
230 volts.

We had to replace the electronic temperature control for a commercial
230 volt fryer and the thermostat unit smaller than a cigarette pack
cost a couple of hundred dollars.

It also may appear that you do not have the means or the knowledge how
to test (safely) for 230 volts?

Also btw in the case of sauna and spas etc. is it a code requirement
that metal plumbing etc. MUST BE BONDED to the electrical grounds? May
need to check codes in your jurisdiction.

On Sep 17, 1:12*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
hdivr wrote:
On Sep 16, 1:41 pm, Bob wrote:
hdivr wrote:
O.K. *Heres my problem. *Previously, I had a 240 volt hot tub with a
50 amp Double pole GFCI. *Recently replaced hottub with a 240v sauna.
Now, according to the wiring schematic. *I need one 240v line hooked
up to power the three heating elements.
In simple terms, the 240 volt circuit is two 120 volt circuits with
respect to the white neutral wire. *Connect the breakers as they were
originally and measure between the red and black leads. *You should get
240 volts.

Unless you want to risk electrocution in your new sauna, you should
entrust the installation to someone more familiar with 240 volt wiring,
or study references more thorough and trustworthy than Usenet.

This marginal advice is presented without any warranty, expressed or
implied.

Yes, if I test between the black and red they will show 240v.
However, doesn't that mean that each element is only being powered by
110v? * The schematic on the heater is different than the instruction
manual. *On the heater, it shows a single L1 line (240v) that powers
the entire heater and that all three elements are "jumpered" with a
metal clip. *However in the manual, they show both a L1 and L2 wire
hooked up seperately to different elements and the *third element
doesn't appear to be hooked up. * (I can jumper the third element to
the second, but when checking with my multimeter, it only shows 110v
being directed to each element (with the end of the tester being held
to ground.

Am I reading this wrong? *Should I only be reading the multimeter and
tester across the two terminals to get 240v and not reading each Line
against grounding to bare metal?

Hi,
If the heater element is for 240V, they should be parallel connected
between L1 and L2 where your 240V goes.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tony: This guy/gal doesn't understand enough to parallel or series
connect the heater elements as required.
It's one of these "The red goes here and the black goes there ........
" situations without the person really understanding what's going on.

Recommend being careful about giving advice such cases.

For example; the heaters elements MAY be for 230 volts 'each'. On
other hand each element may be for 115 volt and it may be 'possible'
to connected them for 230 volts by wiring them in series.

Even if the OP was to quote the model number or scan the connection
diagram and post it somewhere we are still, by replying, assuming the
info is correct.

If it's only small sauna unit a 50 amp beaker may be too big? Fifty
amps at 230 is 11.5 kilowatts. However if it did consume the full 50
amps, which is doubtful, at full blast that could be an electricity
cost of $1.50 per hour?

One last point; the OP's mention of a third, possibly unconnected
element may raise the possibility of three phase? That makes it sound
like a fairly 'heavy' unit. It doesn't necessarily mean he has to
connect up the third element but does raise yet another question. A
competent electrician would probably sort it out (previously sight
unseen) in less than hour! The OP has already bought a seemingly
incorrect 'Single-pole' circuit breaker and is liable to do something
else wrong?