The dude wrote:

wrote:
On Sep 12, 3:53 pm, The dude wrote:
The only utility I have is natural gas, I can see where it goes
(not where the fence is.

Keep in mind that just because you only have gas, does not mean
your neighbors don't have more and it may run across your property.
In most areas the utilities will come out and mark their lines and
pipes for free.

Why would my neighbors utility cross 2 acres of horse pasture?

It probably doesn't, but you never know. While making a flower bed, I
cut my neighbor's TV cable line, which was in _my_ yard. It ran all the
way across my lot to the junction box in the yard of the neighbor on
the _other_ side.

Note: Many posters add data that applies to the problem in general, not
specifically to you, to help other people reading the message later.
Besides, they might point out something you need to know, but haven't
thought of yet. :-)

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
You have LINELESS water??? How's that work?

s


"The dude" wrote in message
. ..



its called a well... I have no water lines


They freeze it and brings blocks of water into the house as needed

"The dude" wrote in message
. ..
I just got another estimate.

$1,000 for the same thing.

This is for 3.5 acres of land


That can save you 10x that if you put the fence in the wrong place. I'd go
for it.

I have been getting quotes over $2,000 for a survey.

Is this normal? Something I really need for a basic fence?

Where do you live?
What is the approximate size of your lot in feet?
Is it square, rectangular, or odd shaped?

That's pretty expensive from my experience. It cost me $384 in Chicago
a lot of years ago, standard 45' wide lot, and around $400 here about
ten years ago. "here" is upstate NY, rural area.

If you have multiple quotes in that area though, I'd say it appears to
be the going rate. What the rest of these fools are on about is
anyone's guess. Boy, they really come creeping out of the woodwork on
this group, don't they? Almost every one of them is an ignoramus too.

Save for knowing - without question - where my lot line was, it would
behoove me to get a survey. If i want maximum space within the fence
without encroaching on the neighboring properties, I'd better know -
without question - where my lot line was.

There are metal stakes about 3/4" X 3/4" X 3 ft long pounded into the
ground (a few inches below grade at most)at lot lines here and originally
there is a white wooden stake at each metal stake as well. The local
city/county/district has available maps that show where these stakes/lot
lines are, complete with measurements. Its usually pretty easy to take a
copy (online) of the sheet out there along with a tape and small shovel and
find "A" stake..doesnt need to be yours..From there, measure away til you
find your own. I've had a copy of the survey for each of the 3 homes I ve
owned over the last 35 years. Its usually done when a house is SOLD or
BUILT and of course, its something you keep.

AHHHHHH..... I C


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news

"Steve Barker DLT" wrote in message
...
You have LINELESS water??? How's that work?

s


"The dude" wrote in message
. ..



its called a well... I have no water lines


They freeze it and brings blocks of water into the house as needed

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:18:22 -0500, The dude
wrote:

Why would my neighbors utility cross 2 acres of horse pasture?




What was there 100 years ago?

I was told I would need a boundary survey in order to obtain a permit...


Rudy wrote:
Save for knowing - without question - where my lot line was, it would
behoove me to get a survey. If i want maximum space within the fence
without encroaching on the neighboring properties, I'd better know -
without question - where my lot line was.

There are metal stakes about 3/4" X 3/4" X 3 ft long pounded into the
ground (a few inches below grade at most)at lot lines here and originally
there is a white wooden stake at each metal stake as well. The local
city/county/district has available maps that show where these stakes/lot
lines are, complete with measurements. Its usually pretty easy to take a
copy (online) of the sheet out there along with a tape and small shovel and
find "A" stake..doesnt need to be yours..From there, measure away til you
find your own. I've had a copy of the survey for each of the 3 homes I ve
owned over the last 35 years. Its usually done when a house is SOLD or
BUILT and of course, its something you keep.

Probably a corn or bean field...

My farm was built in 1942, and all the land around was owned by a farmer.

Now it was divided out.... in the 1990's





wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:18:22 -0500, The dude
wrote:

Why would my neighbors utility cross 2 acres of horse pasture?




What was there 100 years ago?

I am thinking the same thing...

It is a rectangular 3.5 acre lot.

I guess most of the expense is the drawing and certification?



TWayne wrote:
I have been getting quotes over $2,000 for a survey.

Is this normal? Something I really need for a basic fence?

Where do you live?
What is the approximate size of your lot in feet?
Is it square, rectangular, or odd shaped?

That's pretty expensive from my experience. It cost me $384 in Chicago
a lot of years ago, standard 45' wide lot, and around $400 here about
ten years ago. "here" is upstate NY, rural area.

If you have multiple quotes in that area though, I'd say it appears to
be the going rate. What the rest of these fools are on about is
anyone's guess. Boy, they really come creeping out of the woodwork on
this group, don't they? Almost every one of them is an ignoramus too.

The dude wrote:
I am thinking the same thing...

It is a rectangular 3.5 acre lot.

I guess most of the expense is the drawing and certification?

That, and the unseen effort. A good survey includes research of
adjoining parcels and their legal descriptions, compared to what's
actually measured on the ground. A competent surveyor will measure more
or less a city block in each direction, perhaps more depending on the
original layout.

Inevitably, there will be some discrepancy. A land surveyor experienced
with work in your area will know how to handle this, because he or she
will have an idea of how your neighborhood was laid out to begin with.

A cheap survey is like a discount parachute. If you do it at all, get
an experienced pro with a license. Any other survey is worth less than
a roll of Charmin.

You might get away without a survey; it's your gamble, and you might be
OK. If you can locate AND TRUST your existing markers (known as
monumentation) and compare them to your original lot survey (and NOT the
so-called 'mortgage survey'), you might be OK.

IF you decide to get it surveyed, don't screw around. Hire a pro with a
license and a reputation. This will cost, and it will be worth it.

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I will
take.


Robert Barr wrote:

The dude wrote:
I am thinking the same thing...

It is a rectangular 3.5 acre lot.

I guess most of the expense is the drawing and certification?

That, and the unseen effort. A good survey includes research of
adjoining parcels and their legal descriptions, compared to what's
actually measured on the ground. A competent surveyor will measure more
or less a city block in each direction, perhaps more depending on the
original layout.

Inevitably, there will be some discrepancy. A land surveyor experienced
with work in your area will know how to handle this, because he or she
will have an idea of how your neighborhood was laid out to begin with.

A cheap survey is like a discount parachute. If you do it at all, get
an experienced pro with a license. Any other survey is worth less than
a roll of Charmin.

You might get away without a survey; it's your gamble, and you might be
OK. If you can locate AND TRUST your existing markers (known as
monumentation) and compare them to your original lot survey (and NOT the
so-called 'mortgage survey'), you might be OK.

IF you decide to get it surveyed, don't screw around. Hire a pro with a
license and a reputation. This will cost, and it will be worth it.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I will
take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?

Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I will
take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:10:10 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

I don't know. I would think it's highly dependent on the local market.

Generally, I don't think it's a good idea to pay for a service before
you get it. Then you are depending on the provider to do what was
contracted for. If he doesn't it's a big hassle for you. I always
prefer to pay on delivery.

It should be part of the job if it's not already done.

s


"The dude" wrote in message
. ..
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I will
take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?

The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I
will take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?

Suppose his schedule never "lightens up". He's got your grand - what's
his incentive to come back?

Yeah, I know, his reputation, his good word, yada yada. If you trust him
go for it, but it could be risky.

"The dude" wrote in message
. ..
I just got another estimate.

$1,000 for the same thing.

This is for 3.5 acres of land

The price is not based on the amount of land but on how much work and
distance they have to do their measuring and surveying from the local
"landmark" point, to your lot.

The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?


The actual staking is the finishing touch. It's usually very fast -- a
few minutes per stake. All the prep work is done in advance. Usually
we spend more time driving to a customer's property than we spend staking.

That, and the actual paperwork -- the plat of survey itself -- are the
end products. You want BOTH. It's the plat that's of actual value;
there's no proof of who pounded in the iron pipes (or whatever they
use). If you distrust the surveyor, don't hire him. Explain your
concern up front; you're concerned that the staking will never get done
if you pay the full amount up front. Suggest 50/50.

The surveyor is also a businessperson, and should be aware of your
concerns & will certainly anticipate same. If he acts put out with an
offer of 50/50, he's not much of an entrepreneur. Shop elsewhere.

Odds are, though, that 50/50 will be welcomed. (And in my neck of the
woods, a grand for a 3.5 acre boundary survey is a bargain).

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I will
take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?
Hi,
Tried to find survey pegs with metal detector and some digging around?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after
I move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I
will take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?

Suppose his schedule never "lightens up". He's got your grand - what's
his incentive to come back?

Yeah, I know, his reputation, his good word, yada yada. If you trust him
go for it, but it could be risky.

And I pay with a credit card.... really no risk.

Robert Barr wrote:

The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?


The actual staking is the finishing touch. It's usually very fast -- a
few minutes per stake. All the prep work is done in advance. Usually
we spend more time driving to a customer's property than we spend staking.

That, and the actual paperwork -- the plat of survey itself -- are the
end products. You want BOTH. It's the plat that's of actual value;
there's no proof of who pounded in the iron pipes (or whatever they
use). If you distrust the surveyor, don't hire him. Explain your
concern up front; you're concerned that the staking will never get done
if you pay the full amount up front. Suggest 50/50.

The surveyor is also a businessperson, and should be aware of your
concerns & will certainly anticipate same. If he acts put out with an
offer of 50/50, he's not much of an entrepreneur. Shop elsewhere.

Odds are, though, that 50/50 will be welcomed. (And in my neck of the
woods, a grand for a 3.5 acre boundary survey is a bargain).


I really don't have any concern with pre-paying..

I put $3,000 earnest money on the house... I could have a tough time
getting that back also.

So $1,000 on a credit card from a local business guy who does work for
the county... seems like low risk to me.

Tony Hwang wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after I
move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I
will take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?
Hi,
Tried to find survey pegs with metal detector and some digging around?

I don't own it yet... And I need a survey to buy anyway. Might as
well pay for an actual one to be performed.

John Grabowski wrote:


"The dude" wrote in message
. ..

I have not closed on the house.

Instead of paying for 2 surveys, I want to combine the cost.



*Sounds like a good idea. You can pay the surveyor to drive stakes or
you can follow him around and put in your own stakes. If you haven't
already you should contact the town about the zoning for fences. There
may be a setback requirement.

Have the surveyor place the monuments (stakes.) If you place them they
are meaningless should an issue arise unless you are a licensed land
surveyor.



dpb wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

The dude wrote:

I have been getting quotes over $2,000 for a survey.

Is this normal? Something I really need for a basic fence?


I wouldn't. Just give it your best guess.

What's the worst that could happen?

...
That you end up having ceded over a fraction of your lot that could
be a sizable economic penalty at sale time.

Or, that the fence gets to be moved and redone on _your_ property at
whatever the appropriate setback is.

Either can be far more expensive than the $2K.

Whether need it or not depends on whether there's really a question
as to where the property line really is--which I gather there must be
or wouldn't be considering the question here.

Isn't there a corner marker/wasn't a survey done when you closed on
the house?

--

The dude wrote:

I have been getting quotes over $2,000 for a survey.
Is this normal? Something I really need for a basic fence?

Normal, maybe. Outrageous, absolutely!

Did you not get a plot of survey when you purchased
the house? If so and you can't find it, it should
be on file at the Title Insurance company. Your
county may have the plot of survey on file.

All you have to do is find the existing stakes and
get an inch on your side of the line.

Watch out for easements. Do not build/put anything
in them.

Dick

Noahbuddy wrote:
Just get the fricken survey and save yourself a lot of headache later on.
geesh.


I plan on it, but I am trying to gauge what it should cost.
$2,000 seemed rather steep...

On Sep 13, 7:16*pm, Robert Barr wrote:
The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

The actual staking is the finishing touch. *It's usually very fast -- a
few minutes per stake. *All the prep work is done in advance. *Usually
we spend more time driving to a customer's property than we spend staking..

That, and the actual paperwork -- the plat of survey itself -- are the
end products. *You want BOTH. *It's the plat that's of actual value;
there's no proof of who pounded in the iron pipes (or whatever they
use). *If you distrust the surveyor, don't hire him. *Explain your
concern up front; you're concerned that the staking will never get done
if you pay the full amount up front. *Suggest 50/50.

The surveyor is also a businessperson, and should be aware of your
concerns & will certainly anticipate same. *If he acts put out with an
offer of 50/50, he's not much of an entrepreneur. *Shop elsewhere.

Odds are, though, that 50/50 will be welcomed. *(And in my neck of the
woods, a grand for a 3.5 acre boundary survey is a bargain).

Around here, if you told a surveyor that you'd bay 50/50, he say
"next" and move on to the next, legitimate client. He's immediately
assume you were out to cheat him out of his 2nd 50% They have way to
much bank work to do deal with this level of frustration.

On Sep 13, 10:31*pm, The dude wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:

The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after
I move in.

Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I
will take.

Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?

Suppose his schedule never "lightens up". He's got your grand - what's
his incentive to come back?

Yeah, I know, his reputation, his good word, yada yada. If you trust him
go for it, but it could be risky.

And I pay with a credit card.... *really no risk.

You pay your surveyor with a credit card? Really? I've never hear of
that before. Besides, then for the closing to you have to disclose
that you are borrowing part of the closing costs? Doesn't seem like
it would be worth the effort.

On Sep 14, 12:50*am, Boden wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:

"The dude" wrote in message
...

I have not closed on the house.

Instead of paying for 2 surveys, I want to combine the cost.

*Sounds like a good idea. *You can pay the surveyor to drive stakes or
you can follow him around and put in your own stakes. *If you haven't
already you should contact the town about the zoning for fences. *There
may be a setback requirement.

Have the surveyor place the monuments (stakes.) *If you place them they
are meaningless should an issue arise unless you are a licensed land
surveyor.

Its easier to have the survey place some flags but if there's a
conflict, it really doesn't matter who does the placement. The other
side will get their own surveyor and it'll head to court. Surveys
often conflict by a few inches (or feet).





dpb wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

The dude wrote:

I have been getting quotes over $2,000 for a survey.

Is this normal? *Something I really need for a basic fence?

I wouldn't. Just give it your best guess.

What's the worst that could happen?

...
That you end up having ceded over a fraction of your lot that could
be a sizable economic penalty at sale time.

Or, that the fence gets to be moved and redone on _your_ property at
whatever the appropriate setback is.

Either can be far more expensive than the $2K.

Whether need it or not depends on whether there's really a question
as to where the property line really is--which I gather there must be
or wouldn't be considering the question here.

Isn't there a corner marker/wasn't a survey done when you closed on
the house?

--

Borrowing Closing costs??
I am paying for the survey upfront, not through the realtor
You can borrow closing costs, you cannot borrow the down payment.




Pat wrote:
On Sep 13, 10:31 pm, The dude wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?
Caesar Romano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:04:00 -0500, The dude
wrote Re Putting up fence - Do I
need a boundry survey?:
The $1000 quote that I have is from a Pro in the area...
But, he will provide a mortage survey for now, then later when his
schedule lightens up he will come out and mark the property - after
I move in.
Unless some other pro comes in better, that is probably the route I
will take.
Are you going to pay the full $1000 now or part now and the rest after
he comes out and marks the property?
Suppose his schedule never "lightens up". He's got your grand - what's
his incentive to come back?
Yeah, I know, his reputation, his good word, yada yada. If you trust him
go for it, but it could be risky.
And I pay with a credit card.... really no risk.

You pay your surveyor with a credit card? Really? I've never hear of
that before. Besides, then for the closing to you have to disclose
that you are borrowing part of the closing costs? Doesn't seem like
it would be worth the effort.

Pat wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:16 pm, Robert Barr wrote:
The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?
The actual staking is the finishing touch. It's usually very fast -- a
few minutes per stake. All the prep work is done in advance. Usually
we spend more time driving to a customer's property than we spend staking.

That, and the actual paperwork -- the plat of survey itself -- are the
end products. You want BOTH. It's the plat that's of actual value;
there's no proof of who pounded in the iron pipes (or whatever they
use). If you distrust the surveyor, don't hire him. Explain your
concern up front; you're concerned that the staking will never get done
if you pay the full amount up front. Suggest 50/50.

The surveyor is also a businessperson, and should be aware of your
concerns & will certainly anticipate same. If he acts put out with an
offer of 50/50, he's not much of an entrepreneur. Shop elsewhere.

Odds are, though, that 50/50 will be welcomed. (And in my neck of the
woods, a grand for a 3.5 acre boundary survey is a bargain).

Around here, if you told a surveyor that you'd bay 50/50, he say
"next" and move on to the next, legitimate client. He's immediately
assume you were out to cheat him out of his 2nd 50% They have way to
much bank work to do deal with this level of frustration.


The surveyor told me 50/50...
I would have just assumed pay it all upfront.

Same as the home inspectors I used took a check without ID... again low
risk...

On Sep 14, 11:19*am, Pat wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:16*pm, Robert Barr wrote:





The dude wrote:
Probably the entire $1,000 upfront..
How much money is the actual staking actually worth?

The actual staking is the finishing touch. *It's usually very fast -- a
few minutes per stake. *All the prep work is done in advance. *Usually
we spend more time driving to a customer's property than we spend staking.

That, and the actual paperwork -- the plat of survey itself -- are the
end products. *You want BOTH. *It's the plat that's of actual value;
there's no proof of who pounded in the iron pipes (or whatever they
use). *If you distrust the surveyor, don't hire him. *Explain your
concern up front; you're concerned that the staking will never get done
if you pay the full amount up front. *Suggest 50/50.

The surveyor is also a businessperson, and should be aware of your
concerns & will certainly anticipate same. *If he acts put out with an
offer of 50/50, he's not much of an entrepreneur. *Shop elsewhere.

Odds are, though, that 50/50 will be welcomed. *(And in my neck of the
woods, a grand for a 3.5 acre boundary survey is a bargain).

Around here, if you told a surveyor that you'd bay 50/50, he say
"next" and move on to the next, legitimate client. *He's immediately
assume you were out to cheat him out of his 2nd 50% *They have way to
much bank work to do deal with this level of frustration.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Nonsense. What makes a customer who won't pay 100% upfront less than
legitimate? If he needs a survey for the closing and also wants
actual stake markers put in, there is nothing wrong with paying for
paying for it in two parts. Around here, NJ, surveyors wouldt
typically charge you one amount for a survey for closing without
actually marking the lot and a larger amount for one that includes the
markers.

I'm not saying he has great risk by paying the entire amount on a
credit card up front. Just that if he chooses to do it in two
seperate payments as the work is actually completed, it doesn't make
him a less than legitimate customer and surveyors I've dealt with
would have no problem doing it that way.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:10:38 -0500, The dude
wrote:

Borrowing Closing costs??
I am paying for the survey upfront, not through the realtor
You can borrow closing costs, you cannot borrow the down payment.



When you use a credit card, you are borrowing money.

wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:10:38 -0500, The dude
wrote:

Borrowing Closing costs??
I am paying for the survey upfront, not through the realtor
You can borrow closing costs, you cannot borrow the down payment.



When you use a credit card, you are borrowing money.


For a survey... there is nothing wrong with that.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:45:13 -0500, The dude
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:10:38 -0500, The dude
wrote:

Borrowing Closing costs??
I am paying for the survey upfront, not through the realtor
You can borrow closing costs, you cannot borrow the down payment.



When you use a credit card, you are borrowing money.


For a survey... there is nothing wrong with that.

I just pointed it out because your post implied that you didn't
realize that using a credit card was borrowing.

The dude wrote:
I was told I would need a boundary survey in order to obtain a
permit...


A permit? For a fence?

Lordy.

I'm in Houston. We don't need no stinkin' permits for fences, new roofs,
replacing circuit breaker boxes, or most anything. 'Course right now, 4.2
million residents are without electrical power and the fourth largest city
in the nation is under a 9-6 curfew. For the rest of the week.

I'm sure the two are not related...