On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:37:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski writes:

Have you priced prescription glasses recently?

Yep. Get them mailed here from offshore places like
http://www.zennioptical.com/ where they do a first-class job.

You're a sucker to pay the hometown optician racket any more.


Looks interesting, but do they do a perfect job with wacky prescriptions,
like bifocals with extreme astigmatism?


I got Lasik surgery and my vision (for the first time) is 20/20 or
slightly better. The surgery also corrected my astigmatism. I plan
to recycle all my useless frames to a special Goodwill box. Wow, hard
to believe frames can be so expensive!

Have you priced prescription glasses recently? *I wear a progressive lens
with anti-glare coating and darkening lenses. *Typical price is about $400.

On Jan 19, 9:21*pm, wrote:

ask too much, compared to what I paid for the glasses. I tried online
to find temples, to no luck. So I'm considering soldering it. *My
uncle (a retired EE) told me it would never hold. Part of the problem
is it cracked very near the screw joint. and so would suffer a lot
more torque than if it was further back. Any tips?

If you can reinforce the joint using solder only as a glue, that might
work. Back in my 'poverty' days, I used a bit of brass tubing to make
a surrounding splint and soldered that. With some care and a bit of
filing, it could even be made passably good looking. I have also used
fine copper or brass wire to wind around a beginning crack for the
same reasons. Both of the above repairs outlasted the prescription.

Excessive heat might anneal the metal, some metals will not accept
solder, and tin/lead solder is also affected by corrosives in sweat.
Silver-solder is better but even that is not great. JB Weld is
excellent material if it can be splinted... and if tubing is used
approximating the color of the temple, excess or spill can be filed
away.

Now, I have Titanium frames that I have never had fail. That and
progressive lenses (vanity) and ultra-high plastic - more vanity.

Good luck with it.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

On Jan 21, 2:19*am, John Smith wrote:
Richard J Kinch wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski writes:

Have you priced prescription glasses recently?

Yep. *Get them mailed here from offshore places like
http://www.zennioptical.com/where they do a first-class job.

You're a sucker to pay the hometown optician racket any more.

Geesh!

I was truly unaware such existed. *Where are these people located? *Have
you done satisfactory business with them? *The product is good?

As I type this, with my ~$600.00 glasses, I am beginning to wish I'd
known about this sooner!

Regards,
JS

There is a somewhat new franchise out there call "America's Best"
Eyeglasses and Contacts. They seem to have the best prices for
actually fitted in the store eyeglasses and lenses. My prescription
would run about $400 (for the lenses) in ultra-high-index, coated, UV
lenses. AmBest wants to sell me two pair for that amount including
rimless frames. And they will tint the second pair at no cost. They
will be my next stop as I would _NEVER_ wear glasses that were not
properly fitted. I am not astigmatic, but with progressive bifocals,
centering and height-setting is critical. Target tried it three times
before they got it right... and they were the ones that told me the
lenses were "wrong", not my complaint. So it does mean something.

I really don't care (within limits) where the lenses are ground and/or
the frames assembled, but I do want the final verification and fitting
to be done by an actual human being on my actual face with my actual
eyes.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

William Sommerwerck wrote:

...
For this reason, I would not have a Web or overseas company grind the
lenses. Costco should be cheap enough.



Really.

Off that site, a cheap pair of frames and lenses is ~$35.00USD
(including shipping!) I can have multiple pairs and if I lose one, no
big deal ... that site certainly looks good to me. As long as the area
of corrected vision is large enough on the lenses--should work fine.
Height of the pupil can be adjusted with adjustment of the nose pieces
or padding.

I don't plan on wearing these glasses to see the king--just for work
where something always happens to 'em!

Ever misplaced a pair of glasses, grabbed your backup and lost them?
Everything stops until at least one set is recovered.

Regards,
JS

Uncrewed the leftover part of the frame and it is the size of a nut.
I thought there might be some stem left, but no. This seems
undoable. I once repaired plastic frames by screwing an eye-screw into
the frame with a similar fracture. I wonder if I can't solder an eye
screw (looks like the letter P) in there. In the toirtoise shell
plastic glasses, the eye screw repair looked darn near invisible.

Heck, it would almost be easier to twist the frame 90 degrees and put
a hole in perpendicular to the flat side and run the screw through
that.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

Eyeglass repair webs say they use gold solder.

I could almost make the temple from wire (run the screw through a
loop). If only I knew where to find "antique bronze" wire that stiff
and thick.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

Wait! That's it - I should find a matching frame with those cheap
reading glasses and swap the temple!


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

You need the Rx to include pupilary distance. Zenni doesn't ask for
temple size but since you are getting measured, might as well get
those numbers too.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

*+-My tip: Take them off before attempting to solder them.

Have been known to be quite ambidexterous, but not THAT much!

More seriously, I would need something to hold them in place.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I got a couple pair of glasses from Zenni. They seem fine to me. Gunner
Asch
has also mentioned being satisfied with Zenni.


Yep. Get them mailed here from offshore places like
http://www.zennioptical.com/ where they do a first-class job.

They don't show a frame the size I need for my lenses, but the prices are
what seems to be about right. No way a frame is worth what the local guys
are charging for them.

"Phisherman" wrote in message


I got Lasik surgery and my vision (for the first time) is 20/20 or
slightly better. The surgery also corrected my astigmatism. I plan
to recycle all my useless frames to a special Goodwill box. Wow, hard
to believe frames can be so expensive!

I'm a candidate for Lasik, but I'm afraid to try it. I've heard too many
cases of less than perfect. I've been wearing glasses for 56 years now.

In our area, the Lions Club takes the old glasses.

John Smith writes:

I was truly unaware such existed. Where are these people located?

Hong Kong.

Have you done satisfactory business with them?

Yep.

The product is good?

Yep.

William Sommerwerck writes:

An optician puts a gadget over your eyes that lets them determine
where the pupils fall. The lenses are then ground with their optical
centers at those points.

Please. The online offshore suppliers require your PD measurement for just
this purpose.

Opticians don't "grind lenses" any more. They take a big stock lens for
your Rx from an assortment on hand (itself likely an import from China),
and trim the edges to fit the frame.

writes:

The big cost for glasses is usually in the lenses, NOT the frames.

Lenses cost pennies, as proven by non-Rx high-quality reading glasses at
the $1 store.

The big cost is the optician racket via the Rx system. The Web has finally
busted that open.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
John Smith writes:

I was truly unaware such existed. Where are these people located?

Hong Kong.

Have you done satisfactory business with them?

Yep.

The product is good?

Yep.

Richard:

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I will order a couple of these and
see how they work out. After I have gotten used to paying 500/600+ for
my glasses--this just hit me as too good to be true.

It is obvious there is little cost in glasses, once the initial costs of
their equipment has been setup. And, I don't really like changing
frames--an aviator or modified aviator and I am as happy as h*ll. I
think they could sell that model frames until the cows came home ...
somehow I strongly suspect the antitrust laws of decades ago have been
revised or else ignored.

Regards,
JS

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:08:19 -0500, in sci.electronics.repair,
"Stormin Mormon" bloviated:

"Aratzio" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:07:09 -0500, in sci.electronics.repair,
"Stormin Mormon" bloviated:

I got a couple pair of glasses from Zenni. They seem fine to me. Gunner
Asch
has also mentioned being satisfied with Zenni.

Gummy is also satisfied with Bush, Cheney, Iraq, the Economy, the
Environment and using a saturday night special as a leather punch.


Which makes him a star witness.

For devolution.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
John Smith writes:

I was truly unaware such existed. Where are these people located?

Hong Kong.

Have you done satisfactory business with them?

Yep.

The product is good?

Yep.


Please share your prescription with us.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .

William Sommerwerck writes:

An optician puts a gadget over your eyes that lets them determine
where the pupils fall. The lenses are then ground with their optical
centers at those points.

Please. The online offshore suppliers require your PD measurement
for just this purpose.

Okay. How am I supposed to get it, if not from a local optician?


Opticians don't "grind lenses" any more. They take a big stock lens for
your Rx from an assortment on hand (itself likely an import from China),
and trim the edges to fit the frame.

I assume you're kidding. Can you imagine how many millions of pre-ground
"stock" lenses would be needed to every possible combination of lens size &
shape, PD, prescription, etc? There probably aren't that many atoms in the
universe! grin

I assume you're kidding. Can you imagine how many millions of
pre-ground "stock" lenses would be needed to every possible
combination of lens size & shape, PD, prescription, etc? There
probably aren't that many atoms in the universe! grin

He's not kidding. That's how all those "eyeglasses in a hour" places
do it. They stock an assortment of ready made lenses. The "blank"
lenses are large circles. They simply cut them to fit the frames you
picked out. The size, shape, and PD are irrelevent, as they cut from
the large blank which has it's optical center in the center.

I could see this if all you were correcting for were single refractive
errors. But lenses also require astigmatism correction. Not to mention the
different types of lens materials, coatings, etc -- and bifocals, trifocals,
progressives, etc.

Furthermore, it would make no sense to stock all these variations, simply
because of the capital investment involved. A store can't afford to keep
rarely needed prescriptions in stock.

Finally... The lens has to be "ground" at some point, regardless of whether
it's in China or the US. Are you suggesting that it would take an automatic
machine more than a few minutes to do this -- while the technician was doing
something else?

Nope. I still don't buy it.

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

Please share your prescription with us.

R -2.50-0.50x174
L -3.00-1.25x175

PD=71

temple=140mm-
57/16 or 52/16

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom writes:

Please share your prescription with us.

R -2.50-0.50x174
L -3.00-1.25x175

PD=71

temple=140mm-
57/16 or 52/16


Looks like an easier prescription to fill than mine. I actually walked into
3 eyeglass places where they could measure everything themselves. All 3 of
them screwed it up BIG time. This offshore thing is obviously not for
everybody.

William Sommerwerck writes:

Can you imagine how many millions of pre-ground
"stock" lenses would be needed to every possible combination of lens
size & shape, PD, prescription, etc?

You don't understand. It takes a small number of stock lenses to cover
almost all the population for single-vision lenses. All you need are small
set of increments of spherical powers crossed with a few astigmatic
cylinder increments. These are stocked as big circular blanks.

Size and shape to fit the frame, PD centering, astigmatism angle, etc., are
all fitted with a jig that cuts the big round blank to a final shape,
center, and cylinder angle. The "optician" doesn't grind the optical
surfaces.

Now, bifocal adds, progressives, extreme Rx powers, are another matter.
But even those tend to be jobbed out to factories, not done by local
craftsmen any more. And those factories are increasingly found overseas in
an age of air transport.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
William Sommerwerck writes:

Can you imagine how many millions of pre-ground
"stock" lenses would be needed to every possible combination of lens
size & shape, PD, prescription, etc?

You don't understand. It takes a small number of stock lenses to cover
almost all the population for single-vision lenses. All you need are small
set of increments of spherical powers crossed with a few astigmatic
cylinder increments. These are stocked as big circular blanks.

Size and shape to fit the frame, PD centering, astigmatism angle, etc.,
are
all fitted with a jig that cuts the big round blank to a final shape,
center, and cylinder angle. The "optician" doesn't grind the optical
surfaces.

Now, bifocal adds, progressives, extreme Rx powers, are another matter.
But even those tend to be jobbed out to factories, not done by local
craftsmen any more. And those factories are increasingly found overseas
in
an age of air transport.


Twice in 25 years, my optician has gotten lenses back from the "lab",
installed them in the frames I already owned, put them on me, and said
"These are not quite right." He was correct. They were weird. He gave me
the option of putting the old ones back in and coming back when the
replacements were done, or living with the "rejects".

It's worth a few hundred bucks to some people to know that what they're
getting is perfect the first time.

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

This offshore thing is obviously not for everybody.

I agree. Dull minds have to pay more for the same results. You cannot
shop price when you don't understand what you're buying. Guild-mentality
opticians have an incentive to keep us ignorant. Intelligent, critical
thinkers, with the Web at hand, can bust that racket.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom writes:

This offshore thing is obviously not for everybody.

I agree. Dull minds have to pay more for the same results. You cannot
shop price when you don't understand what you're buying. Guild-mentality
opticians have an incentive to keep us ignorant. Intelligent, critical
thinkers, with the Web at hand, can bust that racket.


How is an offshore supplier supposed to measure the distance between pupils,
and determine frame size?

Please share your prescription with us.

R -2.50 -0.50x174
L -3.00 -1.25x175

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyeglass_prescription

Both eyes are nearsighted. The first requires a cylindrical (astigmatic)
correction of -0.5 diopters at an angle of 174 degrees.

Note that the angles are in one-degree increments. Is the store supposed to
stock 180 different versions of a lens with -2.5 diopters refraction and -.5
diopters cylindrical? You'd need at least 10,000 different lenses to cover
the common combinations. Even if the cylindrical were limited to 5-degree
increments, you'd still need a huge number of lenses.

No, no, no, no, no. I don't believe it.

Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
William Sommerwerck writes:

Can you imagine how many millions of pre-ground
"stock" lenses would be needed to every possible combination of lens
size & shape, PD, prescription, etc?

You don't understand. It takes a small number of stock lenses to cover
almost all the population for single-vision lenses. All you need are small
set of increments of spherical powers crossed with a few astigmatic
cylinder increments. These are stocked as big circular blanks.

If this is true, how could you expect a reasonably close fit?

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

It's worth a few hundred bucks to some people to know that what they're
getting is perfect the first time.

So take your imports to the optometrist who wrote the Rx. That's his job,
to check that sort of thing. And you can check them yourself, if you know
how.

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

How is an offshore supplier supposed to measure the distance between
pupils, and determine frame size?

He doesn't. You do.

It takes a very costly, specialized instrument called a "ruler". Opticians
use a disguised version to make you think you need them to make this
measurement, when in fact it is no more complicated than a tailor measuring
you for pants.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom writes:

It's worth a few hundred bucks to some people to know that what they're
getting is perfect the first time.

So take your imports to the optometrist who wrote the Rx. That's his job,
to check that sort of thing. And you can check them yourself, if you know
how.


What sort of work do you do? In other words, what do you do for a living?

William Sommerwerck writes:

Note that the angles are in one-degree increments. Is the store
supposed to stock 180 different versions of a lens with -2.5 diopters
refraction and -.5 diopters cylindrical?

Read my earlier reply. One lens blank covers all cylinder angles for a
given spherical power and cylinder power. The angle is determined by the
trimming of the blank.

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

What sort of work do you do? In other words, what do you do for a
living?

Various engineering things, including optical engineering.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom writes:

What sort of work do you do? In other words, what do you do for a
living?

Various engineering things, including optical engineering.


Do you work for free in all your "things", or do you get paid for some of
them?

According to Richard J Kinch :
John Smith writes:

I was truly unaware such existed. Where are these people located?

Hong Kong.

Ya sure? ;-)

Their web site quotes:

Zenni Optical
27 Sunny Oaks Dr.
San Rafael, Ca.94903
Phone 1-800-211-2105
Fax 1-415-491-4516

And their domain registration is "domains by proxy" with no contact
info, which is usually a very bad sign.

But not always.

They seem to at least have some US presence, which is a very
good sign.

[I buy rechargeable batteries from a company which has dozens of
different "customized to different demographic" web sites, based
in HK, but ships from CA. No problems with them.]

Have you done satisfactory business with them?

Yep.

The product is good?

Yep.


--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
William Sommerwerck writes:

Note that the angles are in one-degree increments. Is the store
supposed to stock 180 different versions of a lens with -2.5 diopters
refraction and -.5 diopters cylindrical?

Read my earlier reply. One lens blank covers all cylinder angles for a
given spherical power and cylinder power. The angle is determined by the
trimming of the blank.

Duh. Duh, duh, duh. Of course.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
Please share your prescription with us.

R -2.50 -0.50x174
L -3.00 -1.25x175

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyeglass_prescription

Both eyes are nearsighted. The first requires a cylindrical (astigmatic)
correction of -0.5 diopters at an angle of 174 degrees.

Note that the angles are in one-degree increments. Is the store supposed to
stock 180 different versions of a lens with -2.5 diopters refraction and -.5
diopters cylindrical? You'd need at least 10,000 different lenses to cover
the common combinations. Even if the cylindrical were limited to 5-degree
increments, you'd still need a huge number of lenses.

No, no, no, no, no. I don't believe it.



Instead they rotate the stock lens 174 degrees, one -.5 lens
for all angles!!

JoeSpareBedroom writes:

Various engineering things, including optical engineering.

Do you work for free in all your "things", or do you get paid for some
of them?

Huh? You asked me what I did for a living. That means I get paid for
engineering. Unless I've missed your point.

John Smith wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

...
"offered"? You mean, you ask for them and you're told they no longer sell
them? Or, you don't ask and they don't mention glass as an option?



True, I just don't see them offered. At the price I have been paying
for plastic--I am scared to!

Regards,
JS

The cost me an extra $5.00 They didn't want to sell them, and advise
against it because of the extra weight. When I tell them I work in
electronics with chemicals that will fog plastic lenses, and splashes of
hot solder that will melt spots they agree make them.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message

Furthermore, it would make no sense to stock all these variations, simply
because of the capital investment involved. A store can't afford to keep
rarely needed prescriptions in stock.

Finally... The lens has to be "ground" at some point, regardless of
whether
it's in China or the US. Are you suggesting that it would take an
automatic
machine more than a few minutes to do this -- while the technician was
doing
something else?

Nope. I still don't buy it.

You're both right. The 1 hour places stock a bunch of lenses and cut to fit
frames as needed. Not a big deal. If, however, you have more complex needs,
progressive lenses, etc, you won't get them in an hour. Those will be sent
out and the stock lenses are modified to your particular prescription.
There are many labs that do this on a regular route basis. They pick up at
the optometrist and drop them off a few days later.

The lenses are mostly plastic today. They are molded as a round lens and
cut to shape as needed and the optic center is placed as needed. The same
was done with glass lenses years ago but they make a tiny percentage of the
market today. Plastic is optically clear, safer, cheaper, lighter, easier
to work with. They are not "ground" as glass was years ago, but molded to
the proper diopter. Most of the work is done by machine and it takes but a
few minutes.

Before they moved out of town, I used to sell lens trays to American
Optical. The glass making sections of the factory were being replaced by
molding machines. They make the lenses for pennies.