My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire and architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Thanks very much.

wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire and architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe

On Dec 20, 2:07 pm, Joe wrote:
wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire an architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say that would be the easiest solution, except that the plaster
ceiling is **very** damaged. It's basically like swiss cheese and
would take a a miracle worker of sorts to bring it back to visual
uniformity. We really can't afford that kind of craftsmanship. For
every technological advance over the last 110 years, they seemed to
need to punch a hole in that ceiling!

If we were left with the two other options, which would you recommend?

wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 2:07 pm, Joe wrote:
wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire an architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say that would be the easiest solution, except that the plaster
ceiling is **very** damaged. It's basically like swiss cheese and
would take a a miracle worker of sorts to bring it back to visual
uniformity. We really can't afford that kind of craftsmanship. For
every technological advance over the last 110 years, they seemed to
need to punch a hole in that ceiling!


I think you need to know what the repair idea costs before assuming you
can't afford it. I mean, you can't say 100 is greater than X if you don't
know what X equals.

On Dec 20, 2:34 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Dec 20, 2:07 pm, Joe wrote:
wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire an architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say that would be the easiest solution, except that the plaster
ceiling is **very** damaged. It's basically like swiss cheese and
would take a a miracle worker of sorts to bring it back to visual
uniformity. We really can't afford that kind of craftsmanship. For
every technological advance over the last 110 years, they seemed to
need to punch a hole in that ceiling!

I think you need to know what the repair idea costs before assuming you
can't afford it. I mean, you can't say 100 is greater than X if you don't
know what X equals.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

True. Well, this may be for another post, but we've got approximately
480 square feet of plaster ceiling to deal with. Probably about 20
sq. ft. of which is completely missing, seven or eight holes greater
than 1' square, , and perhaps 20 or so smaller holes in the 2" to 4"
range. Could you estimate how much that might cost to repair?

wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 2:34 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Dec 20, 2:07 pm, Joe wrote:
wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster
and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that
he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that
we
hire an architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and
steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the
plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force,
using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble
and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say that would be the easiest solution, except that the plaster
ceiling is **very** damaged. It's basically like swiss cheese and
would take a a miracle worker of sorts to bring it back to visual
uniformity. We really can't afford that kind of craftsmanship. For
every technological advance over the last 110 years, they seemed to
need to punch a hole in that ceiling!

I think you need to know what the repair idea costs before assuming you
can't afford it. I mean, you can't say 100 is greater than X if you don't
know what X equals.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

True. Well, this may be for another post, but we've got approximately
480 square feet of plaster ceiling to deal with. Probably about 20
sq. ft. of which is completely missing, seven or eight holes greater
than 1' square, , and perhaps 20 or so smaller holes in the 2" to 4"
range. Could you estimate how much that might cost to repair?


No. I'm not in that business. Call a couple of real hardware stores and see
if they can recommend anyone who specializes in this kind of work. A local
historical preservation group may also be helpful, along with a call to a
couple of architect's offices.

wrote in message
...
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire and architect to design framing to support the drywall.



By the way, I don't think you need an architect to design framing. A smart
carpenter should be able to do this. Hell...a bunch of Amish people can
raise a barn in a day without architects.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:07:13 -0800 (PST), Joe wrote:



wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire and architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe

I was thinking the same thing. Just fix the plaster and be done with
it.

OR

Install a suspended grid ceiling, but the hangers will need to be
concrete anchors drilled thru the plaster and into the concrete.

I agree the screws will not hold jjust into plaster.

On Dec 20, 3:11 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:07:13 -0800 (PST), Joe wrote:

wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. (The
building was originally a hotel.) He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire and architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe

I was thinking the same thing. Just fix the plaster and be done with
it.

OR

Install a suspended grid ceiling, but the hangers will need to be
concrete anchors drilled thru the plaster and into the concrete.

I agree the screws will not hold jjust into plaster.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Couldn't I just attached 1x3s to the outside edge of the ceiling using
heavy duty toggle bolts or very coarse screws that will grab into the
metal mesh (and then do the same at regular intervals across the
ceiling) and then attach the drywall to to the 1x3s?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:45:53 -0800 (PST), wrote
Re Attaching 1/4" or 3/8" Drywall to Horsehair Plaster Ceiling (No
Wood):

I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well

Holds what very well?

As an engineer, I would want to know how many Lbs of weight it holds
before it tears out. I would want to know that for a random sample of
about 1 per each 2 sq.ft of ceiling. Then I could tell you if it would
work.

On Dec 20, 1:16*pm, wrote:
On Dec 20, 2:07 pm, Joe wrote:



wrote:
My apartment ceiling remodel has ground to a halt. *The contractor
discovered that there are no wood studs above my horsehair plaster and
steel lathe ceiling (circa 1895), only metal and concrete. *(The
building was originally a hotel.) *He thought (eronneously) that he'd
be able to screw 5/8" drywall directly to the plaster and that it
would hold. *The city inspector thought otherwise, and advised that we
hire an architect to design framing to support the drywall.

BUT, I was wondering, can 1/4" or 3/8" drywall (because of its much
lighter weight) be scewed directly into the horsehair paster and steel
lathe ceiling without falling down, if it is not screwed into any
studs? *I've done a test by screwing a drywall screw into the plaster
(which is about an inch thick), and it holds very well. *It's only
when you rock it from side to side with a good amount of force, using
the extractor-side of a hammer, that the plaster starts to crumble and
the screw falls out.

So, which do you think would be the better/cheaper/safer option,
framing and then attaching 5/8" drywall to the frame, or somehow
fastening thinner drywall directly to the plaster ceiling?

Neither or none of the above, Given that problem I would call in an
old fashioned plastering contractor and have the ceiling redone to
whatever specs you want. Think of the advantages, a skim coat and a
few repairs will be very light weight, it won't support mold, it will
look better than drywall (think butt joints, the drywall ceiling
curse), your inspector will love it, and you may very well save money.
Whatever you use on the walls, at the ceiling interface there will
probably be crown molding, so that is not an issue. HTH

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say that would be the easiest solution, except that the plaster
ceiling is **very** damaged. *It's basically like swiss cheese and
would take a a miracle worker of sorts to bring it back to visual
uniformity. *We really can't afford that kind of craftsmanship. *For
every technological advance over the last 110 years, they seemed to
need to punch a hole in that ceiling!

If we were left with the two other options, which would you recommend?

Neither.

The repair has to be the most sensible thing. No matter how many gaps,
holes or whatever, if you have sound metal mesh it can be repaired and
renewed. FWIW, if it were my pad I'd buy some good quality plaster
mix, some tools and at least get some of the obvious repair work out
of the way. Plastering isn't neurosurgery, but it takes some practice
and a steady hand. It is about on a par with the way pro painters and
accomplished DIYers cut in their trim before slathering on the main
coat of paint. Seems to me, based on observing a plastering crew on
the Left Coast some years ago, that an average room can pretty well be
finished off in two half days by two guys.
If you simply must cover the plaster with something, consider the
stamped tin ceiling tiles which are newly popular these days. Put them
up with construction adhesive and finish with crown molding and you
have a dandy Victorian ceiling. HTH

Joe