Web sites for the heavily advertised EdenPURE quartz infrared portable
heaters such as:
http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qanda.php and
http://www.biotechresearch.com:80/epure_heater.php
claim that they use an "amazing heating element" which involves
something called "cured copper".

Now, the Copper Development Association Inc., CDA, is the market
development, engineering and information services arm of the copper
industry, chartered to enhance and expand markets for copper and its
alloys in North America: http://www.copper.org/

If "cured copper" was something real, then you would expect the CDA to
be helping promote it and thus to sell more copper.

Earlier this year the CDA was asked about cured copper. The question
and their response follow.

Question:
I just read an ad for a space heater which contained the following:
'Cured copper is a type of copper that goes through an extensive
heating process to give it special properties'.
Do you have any idea what they mean?

Response:
They mean that cured copper has the property of storing large amounts
of heat.
In our opinion, it is not possible to do that to copper. (Tony
Rakich)

Also, in October 2007 Consumer Reports magazine tested sixteen
electric portable space heaters, most of which put draw 1500 watts.
Go to your friendly local public library and read their report on
pages 32 and 33. The 1500-watt EdenPURE Quartz Infrared 1000 tied for
last place (15 or 16 out of 16). So their "amazing heating element"
hardly delivers amazing results in comparative tests.

Pittsburgh Pete


DISCLAIMER

We do not believe what we write, and neither should you. Information
furnished to you is for topical (external) use only. This information
may not be worth any more than either a groundhog turd, or what you
paid for it (nothing). The author may not even have been either sane
or sober when he wrote it down. Do not worry, be happy.

On Dec 2, 2:45�pm, wrote:
Web sites for the heavily advertised EdenPURE quartz infrared portable
heaters such as:http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qan...ure_heater.php
claim that they use an "amazing heating element" which involves
something called "cured copper".

Now, the Copper Development Association Inc., CDA, is the market
development, engineering and information services arm of the copper
industry, chartered to enhance and expand markets for copper and its
alloys in North America:http://www.copper.org/

If "cured copper" was something real, then you would expect the CDA to
be helping promote it and thus to sell more copper.

Earlier this year the CDA was asked about cured copper. The question
and their response follow.

Question:
I just read an ad for a space heater which contained the following:
'Cured copper is a type of copper that goes through an extensive
heating process to give it special properties'.
Do you have any idea what they mean?

Response:
They mean that cured copper has the property of storing large amounts
of heat.
In our opinion, it is not possible to do that to copper. � (Tony
Rakich)

Also, in October 2007 Consumer Reports magazine tested sixteen
electric portable space heaters, most of which put draw 1500 watts.
Go to your friendly local public library and read their report on
pages 32 and 33. The 1500-watt EdenPURE Quartz Infrared 1000 tied for
last place (15 or 16 out of 16). So their "amazing heating element"
hardly delivers amazing results in comparative tests.

Pittsburgh Pete

DISCLAIMER

We do not believe what we write, and neither should you. Information
furnished to you is for topical (external) use only. This information
may not be worth any more than either a groundhog turd, or what you
paid for it (nothing). The author may not even have been either sane
or sober when he wrote it down. Do not worry, be happy.

a marketing gimmick all electric heters are near 100% efficent and do
nearly the same thing.

someone in marketing said heres a nice hook to sell more...........

On Dec 3, 7:15Â*am, " wrote:
On Dec 2, 2:45�pm, wrote:





Web sites for the heavily advertised EdenPURE quartz infrared portable
heaters such as:http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qan....biotechresear...
claim that they use an "amazing heating element" which involves
something called "cured copper".

Now, the Copper Development Association Inc., CDA, is the market
development, engineering and information services arm of the copper
industry, chartered to enhance and expand markets for copper and its
alloys in North America:http://www.copper.org/

If "cured copper" was something real, then you would expect the CDA to
be helping promote it and thus to sell more copper.

Earlier this year the CDA was asked about cured copper. The question
and their response follow.

Question:
I just read an ad for a space heater which contained the following:
'Cured copper is a type of copper that goes through an extensive
heating process to give it special properties'.
Do you have any idea what they mean?

Response:
They mean that cured copper has the property of storing large amounts
of heat.
In our opinion, it is not possible to do that to copper. � (Tony
Rakich)

Also, in October 2007 Consumer Reports magazine tested sixteen
electric portable space heaters, most of which put draw 1500 watts.
Go to your friendly local public library and read their report on
pages 32 and 33. The 1500-watt EdenPURE Quartz Infrared 1000 tied for
last place (15 or 16 out of 16). So their "amazing heating element"
hardly delivers amazing results in comparative tests.

Pittsburgh Pete

DISCLAIMER

We do not believe what we write, and neither should you. Information
furnished to you is for topical (external) use only. This information
may not be worth any more than either a groundhog turd, or what you
paid for it (nothing). The author may not even have been either sane
or sober when he wrote it down. Do not worry, be happy.

a marketing gimmick all electric heters are near 100% efficent and do
nearly the same thing.

someone in marketing said heres a nice hook to sell more...........- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Edenpure-overpriced, you can get the same results for 29.99
anywhere, There is molten copper - and cured copper

On Dec 3, 7:11Â*am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 3, 7:15Â*am, " wrote:





On Dec 2, 2:45�pm, wrote:

Web sites for the heavily advertised EdenPURE quartz infrared portable
heaters such as:http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qan....biotechresear...
claim that they use an "amazing heating element" which involves
something called "curedcopper".

Now, theCopperDevelopment Association Inc., CDA, is the market
development, engineering and information services arm of thecopper
industry, chartered to enhance and expand markets forcopperand its
alloys in North America:http://www.copper.org/

If "curedcopper" was something real, then you would expect the CDA to
be helping promote it and thus to sell morecopper.

Earlier this year the CDA was asked aboutcuredcopper. The question
and their response follow.

Question:
I just read an ad for a space heater which contained the following:
'Curedcopperis a type ofcopperthat goes through an extensive
heating process to give it special properties'.
Do you have any idea what they mean?

Response:
They mean thatcuredcopperhas the property of storing large amounts
of heat.
In our opinion, it is not possible to do that tocopper. � (Tony
Rakich)

Also, in October 2007 Consumer Reports magazine tested sixteen
electric portable space heaters, most of which put draw 1500 watts.
Go to your friendly local public library and read their report on
pages 32 and 33. The 1500-watt EdenPURE Quartz Infrared 1000 tied for
last place (15 or 16 out of 16). So their "amazing heating element"
hardly delivers amazing results in comparative tests.

Pittsburgh Pete

DISCLAIMER

We do not believe what we write, and neither should you. Information
furnished to you is for topical (external) use only. This information
may not be worth any more than either a groundhog turd, or what you
paid for it (nothing). The author may not even have been either sane
or sober when he wrote it down. Do not worry, be happy.

a marketing gimmick all electric heters are near 100% efficent and do
nearly the same thing.

someone in marketing said heres a nice hook to sell more...........- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Edenpure-overpriced, you can get the same results for 29.99
anywhere, Â* There is moltencopper- andcuredcopper- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can do even better than $29.99. At Walmart you can buy an ugly
1500-watt milk house heater for about $20.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=7768649
If you want a heater that your pet can sit on, then you just go over
to the pet department and get a 30€�x21€�x24€� wire dog kennel for about
$60 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=8056006
Get some screws and spacers from the hardware department, and attach
the heater to the middle of the floor of the kennel.

The EdenPURE ad and website claim that the Model 1000-XL €œheats a room
of up to 1000 square feet€�.
That is an unreasonable claim. If you want some real advice on sizing
a heater, go to the McMaster Carr wholesale hardware website at:
http://www.mcmaster.com/ and put €œportable electric heaters€� into the
search box.

The EdenPURE is another example of the €œboom box€� or (for old-timers)
€œconsole radio€� marketing fallacy that a bigger cabinet obviously
means a better product. There are only two positive things I can say
about it. One is that it is a €œzero clearance€� design (the ad shows a
cat sitting on top of it). The other is that it is relatively
attractive compared to most other 1500 watt heaters, but for that
price it should be.

If you want a 1500 watt heater that is relatively safe and has a good
fan to circulate the air around a room, then you can go to Lowes and
get a nice looking Reiker ceiling fan for $350 with a built-in 1500
watt heater. It is not portable but it will be out of the way and also
will be useful in the summer.

Pittsburgh Pete

metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

On Dec 3, 4:55 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

So, tell us then what exactly is "cured copper" and why have we not
heard of it before? The only place I've heard it is from these adds
which to me appear to be pure BS. As others have pointed out, an
electric heater at the point of use is basicly 100% efficient. The
energy you put into it all comes out as heat.

Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can
save energy, but that will be because using their heater in the room
you happen to spend most time in lets you lower the heating sytem for
the rest of the house, not because of some miracle cured copper.

On Dec 3, 2:55 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

Excuse me, but that definition for cured copper is not mine. It was
quoted directly from Julius Toth (Director of Product Development for
EdenPURE) in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the answers
on the first web page cited in my post: http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qanda.php

Pittsburgh Pete

On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:55 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:

metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

So, tell us then what exactly is "cured copper" and why have we not
heard of it before? The only place I've heard it is from these adds
ads, not adds

which to me appear to be pure BS. As others have pointed out, an
electric heater at the point of use is basicly 100% efficient. The
energy you put into it all comes out as heat.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m...656bd954d5b331

"point of use": There are no points; there are spots. How efficient a
heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?

Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:
On Dec 3, 2:55 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:

metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

Excuse me, but that definition for cured copper is not mine. It was
quoted directly from Julius Toth (Director of Product Development for
EdenPURE) in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the answers
on the first web page cited in my post:http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qanda.php

No, it doesn't say "large amounts of heat". It does report how long
its heat stays in. And can you please tell where/when this chat with
Tony Rakich was?

wrote in message

So, tell us then what exactly is "cured copper" and why have we not
heard of it before? The only place I've heard it is from these adds
which to me appear to be pure BS.

I wonder if it is oxygen free, like the copper used in the overpriced
Monster cables?

Its goal is a low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.

Do you have any idea how stupid this statement is? All electric heaters are 100%
efficient. There is no such thing as "overlossy".

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

"Autymn D. C." wrote in message
"point of use": There are no points; there are spots. How efficient a
heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?


No. Efficiency is the ratio of heat into a room versus the amount of fuel
burned. ALL electric heaters are 100% effiecient. All fossil fueled
heaters are somewhat less if they have a vent to the outside. IOW, if 20%
of the heat goes up the chimney, you have an 80% effiecient heater.



Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

Heat is heat. 1500 watts is 1500 watt, no matter what style or brand of
heater. $30 gets you a good one.

On Dec 4, 12:09 am, Rick Blaine wrote:
Its goal is a low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.

Do you have any idea how stupid this statement is? All electric heaters are 100%
efficient. There is no such thing as "overlossy".

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

In a word, "hype"!

On Dec 3, 7:42 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, wrote:

On Dec 3, 2:55 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:

metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

Excuse me, but that definition for cured copper is not mine. It was
quoted directly from Julius Toth (Director of Product Development for
EdenPURE) in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the answers
on the first web page cited in my post:http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qanda.php

No, it doesn't say "large amounts of heat". It does report how long
its heat stays in. And can you please tell where/when this chat with
Tony Rakich was?

The question and response from CDA was an email technical inquiry to
the "Contact Us" box on their web page passed on to me from earlier
this year. If you want a real answer to a question, then you always
can find someone who cares and then ask them. If you don't want a real
answer then you can just muck around and post to newsgroups.

(For those reading this thread, Autymn is a minor usenet troll [MUT]
with 210 posts just last month and 39 so far this month. I'm going to
drop out of this thread now since it is a waste of time to reply
further to trolls like Autymn.)

Pittsburgh Pete

On Dec 3, 9:37 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, wrote: On Dec 3, 4:55 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:

metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a
low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.
Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.

So, tell us then what exactly is "cured copper" and why have we not
heard of it before? The only place I've heard it is from these adds

ads, not adds


Thanks for pointing out the typo, which adds so much to the discussion
thread.



which to me appear to be pure BS. As others have pointed out, an
electric heater at the point of use is basically 100% efficient. The
energy you put into it all comes out as heat.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m.../thread/d8656b...

There is nothing in that link that says electric heaters are not all
100% efficient. Nor does it even use the term "cured copper" All it
says about the copper is "The copper is pretreated to soften the
copper and
partially blacken the surface thereof."



"point of use": There are no points; there are spots.

Check you dictionary dear. Mines says one of the definitions of
"point" is :any definite point or position" Perhaps you've never
heard of terms like point of sale terminals, point of purchase. In
other words, saying "point of use" with regard to where a heater is
used is correct.


How efficient a
heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?

No, and there goes any credibility you had in this discussion.
Efficiency in heaters is defined by how much heat you get out compared
to the energy available in the fuel. If you have natural gas in a
furnace in your house and it's 90% efficient, then 90% of the
available energy in the natural gas results in heat that the furnace
can supply to the house. The other 9.9% energy is waste heat lost
with the combustion products that are vented outside.

It has nothing to do with the room, what's outside, or the room temp.



Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

Obviously being devoid of science education or common sense, how would
you know what bunk is?


Doesn't it trouble you at all that if this were some new way of
generating more heat from electricity through the use of "cured
copper", that this is the only company crowing about it? And why
aren't they selling this miracle copper to be used in thousands of
other applications around the world, instead of putting it in a space
heater that Paul Harvey promotes? And why is it that the copper
industry organization has never heard of it?

On Dec 3, 8:08 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Autymn D. C." wrote in message

"point of use": There are no points; there are spots. How efficient a
heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?

No. Efficiency is the ratio of heat into a room versus the amount of fuel
burned. ALL electric heaters are 100% effiecient. All fossil fueled
heaters are somewhat less if they have a vent to the outside. IOW, if 20%
of the heat goes up the chimney, you have an 80% effiecient heater.

Wrong, efficiensey is the ratio of work, not heat (which is a
differense of work). If the goal of a heater is to set a room's
temperature, or internal energy, then all heaters are 0% efficient.
But in loose speech, efficient means efficant: http://dictionary.com/browse/efficacy
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/efficacy. This depends on sustems.

Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

Heat is heat. 1500 watts is 1500 watt, no matter what style or brand of
heater. $30 gets you a good one.

So you believe 1500 watts of sun is equivalent with 1500 watts of
microwave, 1500 watts of incandescent lamp, 1500 watts of warm watter,
1500 watts of warm earth, 1500 watts of warm breath...

On Dec 4, 7:59 am, wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:37 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m.../thread/d8656b...

There is nothing in that link that says electric heaters are not all
100% efficient. Nor does it even use the term "cured copper" All it
says about the copper is "The copper is pretreated to soften the
copper and
partially blacken the surface thereof."

Do you not know how to research?

"point of use": There are no points; there are spots.

Check you dictionary dear. Mines says one of the definitions of
"point" is :any definite point or position" Perhaps you've never
heard of terms like point of sale terminals, point of purchase. In
other words, saying "point of use" with regard to where a heater is
used is correct.

So its definition of point is any definite point? There are no
mathematic or geòmetric points in real life. Everything has size,
volume.

How efficient a

heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?

No, and there goes any credibility you had in this discussion.
Efficiency in heaters is defined by how much heat you get out compared
to the energy available in the fuel. If you have natural gas in a

Read my answer tom Edwin. Your definition's wrong.

furnace in your house and it's 90% efficient, then 90% of the
available energy in the natural gas results in heat that the furnace
can supply to the house. The other 9.9% energy is waste heat lost
with the combustion products that are vented outside.

Which agrees with mine.

It has nothing to do with the room, what's outside, or the room temp.

So you know **** about heat transfer. The conductivity of a material
is dependent on two temperatures about its interface with two sustems;
the milder a room is the slower it leaks heat and the less work your
heater needs to keep a temperature. The same quantity of heat, or
power, expresses itself as different temperatures in many materials,
which then determins how efficient and efficant the heater is.

Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

Obviously being devoid of science education or common sense, how would
you know what bunk is?

Common sense is bunk too. I am none of these.

Doesn't it trouble you at all that if this were some new way of
generating more heat from electricity through the use of "cured
copper", that this is the only company crowing about it? And why
aren't they selling this miracle copper to be used in thousands of
other applications around the world, instead of putting it in a space
heater that Paul Harvey promotes? And why is it that the copper
industry organization has never heard of it?

Because they don't claim such, retard.

-Aut

On Dec 4, 7:18 am, wrote:
(For those reading this thread, Autymn is a minor usenet troll [MUT]
with 210 posts just last month and 39 so far this month. I'm going to
drop out of this thread now since it is a waste of time to reply
further to trolls like Autymn.)

I'm not a troll, you ****en retarded liar. I flame, correct, and
teach; I never troll or lige.

On Dec 3, 7:09 pm, Rick Blaine wrote:
Its goal is a low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one.

Do you have any idea how stupid this statement is? All electric heaters are 100%
efficient. There is no such thing as "overlossy".

Read my other post. You know lear than nothing about these terms.

On Dec 5, 5:33 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
On Dec 4, 7:59 am, wrote:

On Dec 3, 9:37 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m.../thread/d8656b....

There is nothing in that link that says electric heaters are not all
100% efficient. Nor does it even use the term "cured copper" All it
says about the copper is "The copper is pretreated to soften the
copper and
partially blacken the surface thereof."

Do you not know how to research?


You provided the link., not me. If there is a problem with
researching, it's yours.




"point of use": There are no points; there are spots.

Check you dictionary dear. Mines says one of the definitions of
"point" is :any definite point or position" Perhaps you've never
heard of terms like point of sale terminals, point of purchase. In
other words, saying "point of use" with regard to where a heater is
used is correct.

So its definition of point is any definite point? There are no
mathematic or geòmetric points in real life. Everything has size,
volume.

Now you want to argue simple dictionary definitions of the English
language.





How efficient a

heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?

No, and there goes any credibility you had in this discussion.
Efficiency in heaters is defined by how much heat you get out compared
to the energy available in the fuel. If you have natural gas in a

Read my answer tom Edwin. Your definition's wrong.

You actually want more people to read what you posted? Well, here it
is folks, draw your
own conclusions about Autymn's grounding in science. BTW, it's
especially funny since you
criticized me for a typo:

"Wrong, efficiensey is the ratio of work, not heat (which is a
differense of work). If the goal of a heater is to set a room's
temperature, or internal energy, then all heaters are 0% efficient.
But in loose speech, efficient means efficant: http://dictionary.com/browse/efficacy
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/efficacy. This depends on sustems. "




furnace in your house and it's 90% efficient, then 90% of the
available energy in the natural gas results in heat that the furnace
can supply to the house. The other 9.9% energy is waste heat lost
with the combustion products that are vented outside.

Which agrees with mine.

No it doesn't, because no where in the above correct description is
anything about the room, the inside or the outside temps.




It has nothing to do with the room, what's outside, or the room temp.

So you know **** about heat transfer. The conductivity of a material
is dependent on two temperatures about its interface with two sustems;
the milder a room is the slower it leaks heat and the less work your
heater needs to keep a temperature. The same quantity of heat, or
power, expresses itself as different temperatures in many materials,
which then determins how efficient and efficant the heater is.

Heat transfer through the walls of a room and the efficiency of the
heat
source used to heat it are two very different things. If that were
the case, how could
it be that furnaces are routinely rated and labeled with a specific
efficiency
rating? How could a gas furnace be rated 90% efficient if it all
depends on the room
it's heating? Answer: because it doesn't. It only means that the
furnace will
deliver 90% of the available energy from the fuel as usable heat.



Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

Obviously being devoid of science education or common sense, how would
you know what bunk is?

Common sense is bunk too. I am none of these.

Well, I certainly agree that you have no common sense.




Doesn't it trouble you at all that if this were some new way of
generating more heat from electricity through the use of "cured
copper", that this is the only company crowing about it? And why
aren't they selling this miracle copper to be used in thousands of
other applications around the world, instead of putting it in a space
heater that Paul Harvey promotes? And why is it that the copper
industry organization has never heard of it?

Because they don't claim such, retard.

-Aut

Well then why all the talk about the mysterious "cured copper"
discovery, if it's not part
of what makes their EdenPure heater capable of using less energy to
create heat than other sources?

On Dec 6, 8:07 am, wrote:
On Dec 5, 5:33 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:

On Dec 4, 7:59 am, wrote:

On Dec 3, 9:37 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m.../thread/d8656b....

There is nothing in that link that says electric heaters are not all
100% efficient. Nor does it even use the term "cured copper" All it
says about the copper is "The copper is pretreated to soften the
copper and
partially blacken the surface thereof."

Do you not know how to research?

You provided the link., not me. If there is a problem with
researching, it's yours.



"point of use": There are no points; there are spots.

Check you dictionary dear. Mines says one of the definitions of
"point" is :any definite point or position" Perhaps you've never
heard of terms like point of sale terminals, point of purchase. In
other words, saying "point of use" with regard to where a heater is
used is correct.

So its definition of point is any definite point? There are no
mathematic or geòmetric points in real life. Everything has size,
volume.

Now you want to argue simple dictionary definitions of the English
language.



How efficient a

heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their
temperatures. Yes?

No, and there goes any credibility you had in this discussion.
Efficiency in heaters is defined by how much heat you get out compared
to the energy available in the fuel. If you have natural gas in a

Read my answer tom Edwin. Your definition's wrong.

You actually want more people to read what you posted? Well, here it
is folks, draw your
own conclusions about Autymn's grounding in science. BTW, it's
especially funny since you
criticized me for a typo:

"Wrong, efficiensey is the ratio of work, not heat (which is a
differense of work). If the goal of a heater is to set a room's
temperature, or internal energy, then all heaters are 0% efficient.
But in loose speech, efficient means efficant:http://dictionary.com/browse/efficac.../wiki/efficacy. This depends on sustems. "



furnace in your house and it's 90% efficient, then 90% of the
available energy in the natural gas results in heat that the furnace
can supply to the house. The other 9.9% energy is waste heat lost
with the combustion products that are vented outside.

Which agrees with mine.

No it doesn't, because no where in the above correct description is
anything about the room, the inside or the outside temps.



It has nothing to do with the room, what's outside, or the room temp.

So you know **** about heat transfer. The conductivity of a material
is dependent on two temperatures about its interface with two sustems;
the milder a room is the slower it leaks heat and the less work your
heater needs to keep a temperature. The same quantity of heat, or
power, expresses itself as different temperatures in many materials,
which then determins how efficient and efficant the heater is.

Heat transfer through the walls of a room and the efficiency of the
heat
source used to heat it are two very different things. If that were
the case, how could
it be that furnaces are routinely rated and labeled with a specific
efficiency
rating? How could a gas furnace be rated 90% efficient if it all
depends on the room
it's heating? Answer: because it doesn't. It only means that the
furnace will
deliver 90% of the available energy from the fuel as usable heat.



Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim
that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters
and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can

Beliefs are bunk.

Obviously being devoid of science education or common sense, how would
you know what bunk is?

Common sense is bunk too. I am none of these.

Well, I certainly agree that you have no common sense.



Doesn't it trouble you at all that if this were some new way of
generating more heat from electricity through the use of "cured
copper", that this is the only company crowing about it? And why
aren't they selling this miracle copper to be used in thousands of
other applications around the world, instead of putting it in a space
heater that Paul Harvey promotes? And why is it that the copper
industry organization has never heard of it?

Because they don't claim such, retard.

-Aut

Well then why all the talk about the mysterious "cured copper"
discovery, if it's not part
of what makes their EdenPure heater capable of using less energy to
create heat than other sources?

Eden puke does not use less electricity to generate heat, its complete
bs. You have cured copper or molten copper, for all that money and the
rip off they have to make you feel like your not a sucker which you
are if you are still looking at eden pures overpriced units..

On Dec 6, 6:07 am, wrote:
On Dec 5, 5:33 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
On Dec 4, 7:59 am, wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:37 pm, "Autymn D. C." wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.m.../thread/d8656b....

There is nothing in that link that says electric heaters are not all
100% efficient. Nor does it even use the term "cured copper" All it
says about the copper is "The copper is pretreated to soften the
copper and
partially blacken the surface thereof."

Do you not know how to research?

You provided the link., not me. If there is a problem with
researching, it's yours.

a link in a link--I expect you to know what abstracts are.

So its definition of point is any definite point? There are no
mathematic or geòmetric points in real life. Everything has size,
volume.

Now you want to argue simple dictionary definitions of the English
language.

English has been dead for 1000 years not long after the Norman
Conquest. What ye speak today is muttish. "point" is Francish, not
English. Heed the bots of those dictionary entries.

You actually want more people to read what you posted? Well, here it
is folks, draw your
own conclusions about Autymn's grounding in science. BTW, it's

("science" isn't even a word, nor fònetic.)

furnace in your house and it's 90% efficient, then 90% of the
available energy in the natural gas results in heat that the furnace
can supply to the house. The other 9.9% energy is waste heat lost
with the combustion products that are vented outside.

Which agrees with mine.

No it doesn't, because no where in the above correct description is
anything about the room, the inside or the outside temps.

"outside" means the room. And your percents come from arbitrary
properties of such room. More will be lost at greater temperatures
than the outside.

It has nothing to do with the room, what's outside, or the room temp.

So you know **** about heat transfer. The conductivity of a material
is dependent on two temperatures about its interface with two sustems;
the milder a room is the slower it leaks heat and the less work your
heater needs to keep a temperature. The same quantity of heat, or
power, expresses itself as different temperatures in many materials,
which then determins how efficient and efficant the heater is.

Heat transfer through the walls of a room and the efficiency of the
heat
source used to heat it are two very different things. If that were
the case, how could
it be that furnaces are routinely rated and labeled with a specific
efficiency
rating? How could a gas furnace be rated 90% efficient if it all
depends on the room
it's heating? Answer: because it doesn't. It only means that the
furnace will
deliver 90% of the available energy from the fuel as usable heat.

90% under lab conditions; there are always conditions. You could
alter your room and make your furnace essentially useles and almost 0%
efficant--note the industry and community write "efficacious" instead.

Doesn't it trouble you at all that if this were some new way of
generating more heat from electricity through the use of "cured
copper", that this is the only company crowing about it? And why
aren't they selling this miracle copper to be used in thousands of
other applications around the world, instead of putting it in a space
heater that Paul Harvey promotes? And why is it that the copper
industry organization has never heard of it?

Because they don't claim such, retard.

Well then why all the talk about the mysterious "cured copper"
discovery, if it's not part
of what makes their EdenPure heater capable of using less energy to
create heat than other sources?

They don't talk about the copper at all for energy savings:

Q. What advantages does infrared quartz tube heating source have over
other heating source products?

A. John Jones designed his heating source around the three most
important consumer benefits: economy, comfort, and safety. The final
development of this infrared quartz heat source cannot be matched by
any other heating system in the world. In the EdenPURE system,
electricity is used to generate infrared light which, in turn, creates
a very safe heat. Infrared is the safest form of heat because it does
not create carbon monoxide or harmful radiation.

And, most importantly, infrared heat does not reach a burning
temperature. After a great deal of research and development, very
efficient infrared heat chambers were developed that utilize three
unique patented solid copper heat exchangers in one EdenPURE Heater.
Over 5 years of research, development and real life field testing
stand behind this heat source. It has now worked in residential and
commercial applications worldwide for over 25 years.

Q. Why is it that this quartz infrared heating source uses less energy
to create heat than other sources?

A. Actually, there is more than one reason. One of the primary reasons
is that heat at combustion level, which is what all other heat sources
use, causes the heat to instantly rise to the ceiling. Therefore, the
heat is not evenly distributed, causing a very inefficient and
uncomfortable heat source.

The EdenPURE Quartz Infrared Portable Heater does not use burning
heat. Once the heat exchanger absorbs the infrared heat, it exhales
the heat into the living area which is carried by the existing
humidity in the air. This causes the heat to travel rapidly and evenly
throughout a room. In actual studies, photos using infrared lighting
demonstrated that the heat was almost perfectly even from floor-to-
ceiling and wall-to-wall. The EdenPURE Quartz Infrared efficiency is
based on the distribution of energized air, not on just fan movement.
This heat is coined as "soft heat" due to how comfortable it is.


The copper may not even be elemental copper, but its job is radiator-
convector. Maybe it's a compound of coal gas.

-Aut

On Dec 6, 10:35 am, ransley wrote:
Well then why all the talk about the mysterious "cured copper"
discovery, if it's not part
of what makes their EdenPure heater capable of using less energy to
create heat than other sources?

Eden puke does not use less electricity to generate heat, its complete
it's
He said energy, not electricity, ****head.

bs. You have cured copper or molten copper, for all that money and the

bs? Is that the sound a bee makes?

rip off they have to make you feel like your not a sucker which you
ripoff
you're
are if you are still looking at eden pures overpriced units..
pure's

Learn how to write, and prove yourself.