Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

On Nov 14, 8:04 am, hobbes wrote:
Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

No, i have time warner cable and get all my local channels as usual
CBS-2, nbc-4 and etc. but to get hd, i have to tune in to 702 for CBS
and 704 for NBC and etc. Thats the way it is.

hobbes, 11/14/2007,8:04:58 AM, wrote:

Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

Do you use a cable card or a settop box provided by the cable company?

{snip}
Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

I have had a coffee break trying to figure out how to explain it, I am
having problems. Maybe someone else can make it shorter and more direct.
But here is my take to answer your question.

Back years ago, they made B&W TV a subset of Color TV. All was good with
the world. Old worked with New, consumer could up grade when old TV died.

HD TV is not a subset of standard Color TV or vise versa. You cannot
super-impose HDTV over or with Standard TV. Not going to happen. Standard
TV sets cannot deal with HDTV. (Forget about converter boxes for older TVs
for now.)

Your Cable TV channels 2-74 are frequency assigned, and frequency allocated
bandwidth, and many technical terms for your neighbors who don't own a HDTV.

Your TV set has actually two sets TV electronics for decoding TV signals.
Standard and HDTV. (because you may want to watch CNN, or TCM, or any other
cable TV that is only in Standard TV, and you wouldn't purchase a TV set
that didn't give you the choice and your TV set maker knew that.)

However, the signal for HDTV is much larger, needs other technical special
stuff to prevent cross-talk interference, Yada-yada-yada. So it is way up
on the triple digit cable TV channels so it won't interfere with your
neighbors who haven't purchased a new expensive TV set like you did.

That is why, someday soon, over the air broadcasting TV stations will shut
down their standard TV broadcasting, and move to all digital TV
broadcasting. A few years after that, your cable TV will change over to
almost all Digital Channels, and standard TV's will be left out as they get
older and older. Converter boxes may or may not help out.

This post may not have helped.

Phil

On Nov 14, 8:04 am, hobbes wrote:
Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

You should be able to get the HD channels without the box by tuning
to the subchannel. For example: 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc. Keep in mind
these are networks that normally broadcast over the air. For cable
channels like ESPNHD or CNNHD, you will need the cable box.
It is possible that a program like House could end up on another
channel like 98.xxx, but it will still be on 5.1.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:04:58 -0800, hobbes
wrote:

Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.


Here, Comcast charges extra for HD. I bought an HD antennae for 1/3
the cost of a month's cable bill and get all the local HD signals. It
all depends on your location and the broadcast. For those programs on
Lionsgate or Showtime, I rent DVDs and get HD from there. Most of the
time I get news and weather from the Internet or radio. Although I
can afford it, Comcast is way overpriced for what I can get.

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

Yes, it is that difficult when you're trying to receive "QAM" digital cable
channels without using the cable company box. What's more infuriating is
the cable companies move those channels around on their internal frequencies
quite frequently, so at some time in the future you'll have to have your
re-scan to memorize them again.

If your TV has a CableCard slot, you could get a CableCard from the cable
company and you would see "normal" channel numbering and not have to worry
about where the cable company moved a channel to on their system. i.e., Fox
would always be "705", it wouldn't be 98-1 this week and change to 105-7 or
some other crazy number 6 months from now.

Check out www.avsforum.com and look for your local New York HDTV discussion
thread. You'll find LOTS of good info and advice there.

-- Paul

On Nov 14, 12:38 pm, "Paul" wrote:
I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

Yes, it is that difficult when you're trying to receive "QAM" digital cable
channels without using the cable company box. What's more infuriating is
the cable companies move those channels around on their internal frequencies
quite frequently, so at some time in the future you'll have to have your
re-scan to memorize them again.

If your TV has a CableCard slot, you could get a CableCard from the cable
company and you would see "normal" channel numbering and not have to worry
about where the cable company moved a channel to on their system. i.e., Fox
would always be "705", it wouldn't be 98-1 this week and change to 105-7 or
some other crazy number 6 months from now.

Check outwww.avsforum.comand look for your local New York HDTV discussion
thread. You'll find LOTS of good info and advice there.

-- Paul

Yes, the essence of the OP's problem is that he's trying to receive a
digital cable signal without the cable box, cable card, etc. which
would have the necessary QAM tuner. Some newer TVs have a QAM
tuner built-in, but most do not.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 14, 12:38 pm, "Paul" wrote:
I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

Yes, it is that difficult when you're trying to receive "QAM" digital
cable
channels without using the cable company box. What's more infuriating is
the cable companies move those channels around on their internal
frequencies
quite frequently, so at some time in the future you'll have to have your
re-scan to memorize them again.

If your TV has a CableCard slot, you could get a CableCard from the cable
company and you would see "normal" channel numbering and not have to
worry
about where the cable company moved a channel to on their system. i.e.,
Fox
would always be "705", it wouldn't be 98-1 this week and change to 105-7
or
some other crazy number 6 months from now.

Check outwww.avsforum.comand look for your local New York HDTV discussion
thread. You'll find LOTS of good info and advice there.

-- Paul

Yes, the essence of the OP's problem is that he's trying to receive a
digital cable signal without the cable box, cable card, etc. which
would have the necessary QAM tuner. Some newer TVs have a QAM
tuner built-in, but most do not.

The OP has a QAM tuner in his TV as evidenced by him saying on his Bravia
the channel is like "98.XXX or something" The problem is without a
CableCard there's no way for the TV to know what QAM frequency slot goes
with what Cablevision channel number. Another problem is most TV
manufacturers implement their QAM tuning scheme very poorly. I've seen
various TV's lock up and reboot themselves when tuned to certain QAM
channels, or not receive some QAM channels at all, or make no allowance for
directly tuning subchannels from the remote. In defense of the TV
manufacturers, they probably have a hard time making a one-size-fits-all QAM
tuner that works with the proprietary Scientific-Atlanta and Motorola
headends that most cable companies in the U.S. use.

-- Paul

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:04:58 -0800, hobbes
wrote:

Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

I think your TV is tuning QAM (digital cable) channels. In that case,
you don't get a guide. You need to watch those channels long enough to
determine what is what, and write that information down.
--
41 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

Forget the Comcasts and the other cable/satellite services unless you
like to pay... and...pay... and pay.

The most inexpensive way to get HDTV is over the air broadcast from
your local stations. All USA TV stations will be digital by FEB 2009
and most are broadcasting digital right now. (Note that digital does
not necessarily mean HDTV, but many of the network shows are being
produced and transmitted in Digital HDTV right now).

Here is the government's DTV site:

http://www.dtv.gov/

This is terrestrial broadcasting (for free) over what was known as the
old UHF-TV band. If you live way out in the styx, though, you may be
out of luck for free over-the-air HDTV broadcasts. Check with your
local stations to see what digital (UHF) channels they are
broadcasting on. Usually it is posted somewhere on the station's web
site.

Some rural areas rely on UHF translators. Often these are not even
owned by the local stations and these most likely will not immediately
be upgraded to rebroadcast the digital TV signals to the hills and
valleys except in special cases. The digital signals you want should
come from the main transmitter facility of your local station.
(Hopefully, you will be lucky enough to live in the main reception
area).

You will need a HDTV receiver and an ordinary UHF antenna. (Outdoor
antennas work best, just as with the current VHF-UHF broadcast
signals). Some companies are selling special "Digital TV Antennas".
Whether they work any better than a plain old UHF antenna is
debatable. Some have extra amplifiers in the line. You need not
spend a lot of money with antennas though and you may already have one
that will work fine.

The stronger the signal, the less interference you will experience.
Digital TV is more of an "either it works or it doesn't situation",
but it is not necessarily perfect. If you have crappy reception,
chances are you will have problems.

Your biggest expense will be your digital receiver. Make sure you
know what you are getting. See the website above. This is not just a
wide screen TV or monitor. It has to be a true HDTV capable receiver
capable of tuning and displaying the news US DTV Standards. Expect
to pay $1000 plus for a quality unit. (There may be seasonal sales
for less than that).

Beachcomber



Hi,

I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.

What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.

Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....

Best, Mike.

I think your TV is tuning QAM (digital cable) channels. In that case,
you don't get a guide. You need to watch those channels long enough to
determine what is what, and write that information down.
--
41 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

On Nov 15, 2:05 am, (Beachcomber) wrote:
Forget the Comcasts and the other cable/satellite services unless you
like to pay... and...pay... and pay.
The most inexpensive way to get HDTV is over the air broadcast from
your local stations.


The only way your proposal is cheaper is if he gives up cable all
together, as HD is free on Cablevision. I easily spend 90% of my
viewing time watching cable channels, History, Discovery, FoodTV, A&E,
etc. instead of what you can get OTA. I couldn't even tell you the
basic prime time network schedule. And there is HD content on many
other cable channels as well and it is growing. So, I don;t see going
back to an antenna as a mainstream solution that a guy who already has
cable and a Sony Bravia is going to find acceptable.



All USA TV stations will be digital by FEB 2009
and most are broadcasting digital right now. (Note that digital does
not necessarily mean HDTV, but many of the network shows are being
produced and transmitted in Digital HDTV right now).

Here is the government's DTV site:

http://www.dtv.gov/

This is terrestrial broadcasting (for free) over what was known as the
old UHF-TV band. If you live way out in the styx, though, you may be
out of luck for free over-the-air HDTV broadcasts. Check with your
local stations to see what digital (UHF) channels they are
broadcasting on. Usually it is posted somewhere on the station's web
site.

Some rural areas rely on UHF translators. Often these are not even
owned by the local stations and these most likely will not immediately
be upgraded to rebroadcast the digital TV signals to the hills and
valleys except in special cases. The digital signals you want should
come from the main transmitter facility of your local station.
(Hopefully, you will be lucky enough to live in the main reception
area).

You will need a HDTV receiver and an ordinary UHF antenna. (Outdoor
antennas work best, just as with the current VHF-UHF broadcast
signals). Some companies are selling special "Digital TV Antennas".
Whether they work any better than a plain old UHF antenna is
debatable. Some have extra amplifiers in the line. You need not
spend a lot of money with antennas though and you may already have one
that will work fine.

The stronger the signal, the less interference you will experience.
Digital TV is more of an "either it works or it doesn't situation",
but it is not necessarily perfect. If you have crappy reception,
chances are you will have problems.

Your biggest expense will be your digital receiver. Make sure you
know what you are getting. See the website above. This is not just a
wide screen TV or monitor. It has to be a true HDTV capable receiver
capable of tuning and displaying the news US DTV Standards. Expect
to pay $1000 plus for a quality unit. (There may be seasonal sales
for less than that).

Beachcomber


$1000 for an ATSC tuner? You could buy a whole TV or DVR for that
much. Tuners are available for around $100. Also, you can't buy any
new TV today, regardless of size, without an ATSC tuner. They all
must have one built-in.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:48:04 -0800 (PST), wrote:


Forget the Comcasts and the other cable/satellite services unless you
like to pay... and...pay... and pay.
The most inexpensive way to get HDTV is over the air broadcast from
your local stations.


The only way your proposal is cheaper is if he gives up cable all
together, as HD is free on Cablevision. I easily spend 90% of my
viewing time watching cable channels, History, Discovery, FoodTV, A&E,
etc. instead of what you can get OTA. I couldn't even tell you the
basic prime time network schedule. And there is HD content on many
other cable channels as well and it is growing. So, I don;t see going
back to an antenna as a mainstream solution that a guy who already has
cable and a Sony Bravia is going to find acceptable.


Well... for many, going the antenna route will be the least expensive
way of enjoying HDTV. All the main networks ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and
PBS are currently providing free over-the-air HDTV for selected
programs.

Granted, Comcast and the other cable/satellite companies give you
movies, sports, and other programs which you won't otherwise get...
But you are also beholden to them with their outrageous rate
increases, poor customer service, outages and otherwise bad attitude
towards their customers. HDTV is costing them a bundle and they can't
wait to pass on the costs and then some. If I've offended anyone who
really loves their cable company, please pardon me...

Beachcomber

Paul wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 14, 12:38 pm, "Paul" wrote:
I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.
What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.
Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....
Best, Mike.
Yes, it is that difficult when you're trying to receive "QAM" digital
cable
channels without using the cable company box. What's more infuriating is
the cable companies move those channels around on their internal
frequencies
quite frequently, so at some time in the future you'll have to have your
re-scan to memorize them again.

If your TV has a CableCard slot, you could get a CableCard from the cable
company and you would see "normal" channel numbering and not have to
worry
about where the cable company moved a channel to on their system. i.e.,
Fox
would always be "705", it wouldn't be 98-1 this week and change to 105-7
or
some other crazy number 6 months from now.

Check outwww.avsforum.comand look for your local New York HDTV discussion
thread. You'll find LOTS of good info and advice there.

-- Paul
Yes, the essence of the OP's problem is that he's trying to receive a
digital cable signal without the cable box, cable card, etc. which
would have the necessary QAM tuner. Some newer TVs have a QAM
tuner built-in, but most do not.

The OP has a QAM tuner in his TV as evidenced by him saying on his Bravia
the channel is like "98.XXX or something" The problem is without a
CableCard there's no way for the TV to know what QAM frequency slot goes
with what Cablevision channel number. Another problem is most TV
manufacturers implement their QAM tuning scheme very poorly. I've seen
various TV's lock up and reboot themselves when tuned to certain QAM
channels, or not receive some QAM channels at all, or make no allowance for
directly tuning subchannels from the remote. In defense of the TV
manufacturers, they probably have a hard time making a one-size-fits-all QAM
tuner that works with the proprietary Scientific-Atlanta and Motorola
headends that most cable companies in the U.S. use.


Exactly what does a CableCard do for non-encoded (not HBO)?

The digital broadcast must include information on what channel to
display. For instance channel 5.000 is probably broadcast on UHF. Is
there a source that gives the actual broadcast channels? I haven't found
much technical information on how this all works.

--
bud--

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Paul wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 14, 12:38 pm, "Paul" wrote:
I have Cablevision (New York, Westchester County) and my SOny Bravia
TV can get HDTV channels. However they seem to be in the 84.XXXX and
110.XXX ranges. I also get NON HDTV channels at the usual chanels
2,3,4 etc. up to about 74.
What confuses me is that say I want to watch House on HD. I do not tue
to channel 5 (FOX) but some other channel. In cablevision world it is
channel 705. But on my Bravia it is like 98.XXX or something. Finding
the HD TV channels is like a real challenge.
Am I missing something here, or is it always this difficult with HD
tv ....
Best, Mike.
Yes, it is that difficult when you're trying to receive "QAM" digital
cable
channels without using the cable company box. What's more infuriating
is
the cable companies move those channels around on their internal
frequencies
quite frequently, so at some time in the future you'll have to have
your
re-scan to memorize them again.

If your TV has a CableCard slot, you could get a CableCard from the
cable
company and you would see "normal" channel numbering and not have to
worry
about where the cable company moved a channel to on their system.
i.e., Fox
would always be "705", it wouldn't be 98-1 this week and change to
105-7 or
some other crazy number 6 months from now.

Check outwww.avsforum.comand look for your local New York HDTV
discussion
thread. You'll find LOTS of good info and advice there.

-- Paul
Yes, the essence of the OP's problem is that he's trying to receive a
digital cable signal without the cable box, cable card, etc. which
would have the necessary QAM tuner. Some newer TVs have a QAM
tuner built-in, but most do not.

The OP has a QAM tuner in his TV as evidenced by him saying on his Bravia
the channel is like "98.XXX or something" The problem is without a
CableCard there's no way for the TV to know what QAM frequency slot goes
with what Cablevision channel number. Another problem is most TV
manufacturers implement their QAM tuning scheme very poorly. I've seen
various TV's lock up and reboot themselves when tuned to certain QAM
channels, or not receive some QAM channels at all, or make no allowance
for directly tuning subchannels from the remote. In defense of the TV
manufacturers, they probably have a hard time making a one-size-fits-all
QAM tuner that works with the proprietary Scientific-Atlanta and Motorola
headends that most cable companies in the U.S. use.


Exactly what does a CableCard do for non-encoded (not HBO)?

The digital broadcast must include information on what channel to display.
For instance channel 5.000 is probably broadcast on UHF. Is there a source
that gives the actual broadcast channels? I haven't found much technical
information on how this all works.

The CableCard lets the TV display channel numbers just like the cable
company's cable box. Takes care of channel numbering for non-encrypted and
encrytped channels. Lets the cable company activate the various channel
"tiers" according to what you're paying for.

Now if you're talking about OTA digital TV, then the station sends out a bit
of digital info in the broadcast stream ("PSIP" data) that tells the TV to
show "WABC 5" on the display even though your TV is tuned to it's digital
cousin on say UHF channel 31. www.antennaweb.org lists all the
analog/digital cousins.

-- Paul