I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

hands on wrote:
I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the
middle after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of
Wilmington,NC. I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and
the builder won't fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the best thing
be to tear it up and replace it?

Was it ripped asunder or just cracked? Concrete cracks...iron
rusts...

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Nov 1, 2:20 pm, hands on wrote:
I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Describe the crack.
T

hands on wrote:
I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.

Why? Well I know why, he doesn't want to pay for it. Were any
expansion joints put in that slab? How thick is it? Did he adhere to
local requirements (if any) for mesh, etc? Many places don't have a lot
of req's concerning non-structural flat work, but it's a shot. I
wouldn't give up yet on making him tear it out and redo it.

On Nov 1, 6:18 pm, Manster wrote:
hands on wrote:
I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.

Why? Well I know why, he doesn't want to pay for it. Were any
expansion joints put in that slab? How thick is it? Did he adhere to
local requirements (if any) for mesh, etc? Many places don't have a lot
of req's concerning non-structural flat work, but it's a shot. I
wouldn't give up yet on making him tear it out and redo it.

No expansion joints. The crack is only 1/8 inch wide but it runs the
entire width. I tried that concrete patch in a tube but it looks like
crap.

On Nov 2, 4:46 am, hands on wrote:
On Nov 1, 6:18 pm, Manster wrote:

hands on wrote:
I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.

Why? Well I know why, he doesn't want to pay for it. Were any
expansion joints put in that slab? How thick is it? Did he adhere to
local requirements (if any) for mesh, etc? Many places don't have a lot
of req's concerning non-structural flat work, but it's a shot. I
wouldn't give up yet on making him tear it out and redo it.

No expansion joints. The crack is only 1/8 inch wide but it runs the
entire width. I tried that concrete patch in a tube but it looks like
crap.

Yes, there are two types of concrete: the kind that cracks and the
kind that hasn't cracked yet. Usually the standards for non
structural flat work is pretty low anyway, so I think it is a stretch
to get the builder to tear up and redo. If concrete guys had to go
back and replace every slab that cracked, that's all they would be
doing and the price of a pour would be astronomical. And why won't
the second slab crack like the first one? Cracks can be prevented,
but it takes a lot of money--it takes perfect prep work, rebar, strict
control of water content of the concrete, etc. Cost pressures don't
allow this on residential flat work. You see it in commercial slabs,
but look around and you still see some cracking. So unless the plans
included detail of reinforcement and prep of that patio slab, or
unless you specifically requested and paid extra for such work, your
builder could argue that the slab meets the standards of the trade and
he would be right.

Also, expansion joints wouldn't be used in the slab. They are used
where a slab is butting up to an existing structure, sidewalk, etc.
You are talking about control joints, which basically control where
the slab cracks. Usually, they occur every 12' (take a trip to your
local borg and you will see what I mean). On a residential slab, they
are typically sawed into the concrete within 24 hours of the pour.
They often don't work in my experience--you wind up with cracked
concrete AND saw joints in your slab. Did the blueprints specify
control joints?

I'd suggest two options: tile it (use a crack isolation membrane) or
live with it for six months and see if it still bothers you.

I have to agree. Live with it for another 6-12 months and see if
another occurs.
If the crack is straight enough, use it as a starting point for
porcelain tile. That way
the crack will remain between tiles.
Lou

On Nov 2, 8:26 am, Lou wrote:
I have to agree. Live with it for another 6-12 months and see if
another occurs.
If the crack is straight enough, use it as a starting point for
porcelain tile. That way
the crack will remain between tiles.
Lou

The concrete patio was poured so it buts up against my elevated
concrete slab foundation with nothing in between. The crack is not
straight it's crooked.
I would like to put tile down but it is an exterior exposed patio with
no cover at the moment.

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:
I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look great.

Joe

The concrete patio was poured so it buts up against my elevated
concrete slab foundation with nothing in between.

Whoops there it is. If you pulled a permit, get the building inspector
out there.
Now contact an attorney. 20 years of concrete work and one of the top
ten
rules is expansion joints. I don't know what kind of foundation you
have, but
pouring an exterior slab directly against it will eventually cause
damage.
It is now cheaper for the builder to replace the slab then the house.
Lou

On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:
On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look great.

Joe


You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8" crack on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I wouldn't accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span? Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long without a
control joint, that could be the problem.

On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8" crack on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I wouldn't accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span? Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long without a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack of
inspection) as with my other problems.

I am always amazed at the number of people who want to holler
about inspectors fixing everything.

Inspectors work with code.
Code identifies construction minimums.

Code is most highly related to life safety issues. Boards must be
a certain minimum size, nails must be a certain size and number.
Foundation concrete needs to meet size and strength minimums.
Handrails, stairs,and ramps need to meet size requirements. Exits
must meet size and number requirements. Things must meet certain
fire ratings. There is usually a footing inspection, framing
inspection, and final leading to occupancy.

Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical inspections do the same thing at an
even more stringent safety level.

There is no inspector/inspection alive that could care less about
a crack in any of your slab concrete. They don't care if your
brick work cracks. They don't even care if your foundation
cracks. They don't care what brand water heater or furnace you
use. They only care that things won't burn down, fall down, catch
on fire, hurt someone else, electrocute someone, contaminate
anyone else or harm city infrastructure.

There is no code requirement for slab reinforcement, jointing,
expansion/contraction control, subsoil compaction, proper fill,
type of finish, or anything else about flat work concrete. These
are all issues that are cosmetic only. Code just doesn't care if
the window or door is crooked, won't latch, siding is crooked,
didn't get painted, has the worst texture job in the world.

This guy's cracked patio is due to lack of proper control joints.
There is no need for an expansion joint at the foundation unless
the concrete is trapped. Re-bar and re-mesh are not required and
may actually do more harm than good. It is too bad there are not
code driven compaction requirements. The slab will probably end
up settling along the foundation due to loose fill and holding
water.

Don't expect code or inspectors to adjudicate or address cosmetic
issues. Ain't happening. This is an issue between owner and
builder. The builder or his subcontractor did not follow industry
guidelines and did not do all that he could have to prevent the
cosmetic problem. If he is using subs that would pour a long
rectangle without joints, I would worry more about all other subs
at every level.


______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"hands on" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down
the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of
Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the
builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the
best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in
maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look
great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8" crack
on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I wouldn't
accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This
should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span?
Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long without
a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack of
inspection) as with my other problems.

On Nov 3, 10:38 am, "DanG" wrote:
I am always amazed at the number of people who want to holler
about inspectors fixing everything.

Inspectors work with code.
Code identifies construction minimums.

Code is most highly related to life safety issues. Boards must be
a certain minimum size, nails must be a certain size and number.
Foundation concrete needs to meet size and strength minimums.
Handrails, stairs,and ramps need to meet size requirements. Exits
must meet size and number requirements. Things must meet certain
fire ratings. There is usually a footing inspection, framing
inspection, and final leading to occupancy.

Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical inspections do the same thing at an
even more stringent safety level.

There is no inspector/inspection alive that could care less about
a crack in any of your slab concrete. They don't care if your
brick work cracks. They don't even care if your foundation
cracks. They don't care what brand water heater or furnace you
use. They only care that things won't burn down, fall down, catch
on fire, hurt someone else, electrocute someone, contaminate
anyone else or harm city infrastructure.

There is no code requirement for slab reinforcement, jointing,
expansion/contraction control, subsoil compaction, proper fill,
type of finish, or anything else about flat work concrete. These
are all issues that are cosmetic only. Code just doesn't care if
the window or door is crooked, won't latch, siding is crooked,
didn't get painted, has the worst texture job in the world.

This guy's cracked patio is due to lack of proper control joints.
There is no need for an expansion joint at the foundation unless
the concrete is trapped. Re-bar and re-mesh are not required and
may actually do more harm than good. It is too bad there are not
code driven compaction requirements. The slab will probably end
up settling along the foundation due to loose fill and holding
water.

Don't expect code or inspectors to adjudicate or address cosmetic
issues. Ain't happening. This is an issue between owner and
builder. The builder or his subcontractor did not follow industry
guidelines and did not do all that he could have to prevent the
cosmetic problem. If he is using subs that would pour a long
rectangle without joints, I would worry more about all other subs
at every level.

______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked down
the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of
Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the
builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the
best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in
maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look
great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8" crack
on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I wouldn't
accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This
should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span?
Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long without
a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack of
inspection) as with my other problems.

I have a question about the framing inspection because I have a front
door that is out of square and a sliding patio door that is out of
square. Do inspectors look to see if openings are square or do they
check doors after they are installed?

None of the above. It is not a code issue. A frame would have to
be so far out of square, plumb, or true that is could fall down
before it was remotely a code issue. There is no requirement to
be square.

Building inspectors just DO NOT deal with cosmetic or functional
issues. There is no code requiring that your dishwasher
works.There is no code that says your door must latch. There is a
code that your bedroom window must open as a fire escape. There
is a code sizing and numbering means of egress. Code deals with
life safety. Codes are usually the result of insurance industry
losses that have to do with law suit items where there has been
loss of life.



--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"hands on" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 3, 10:38 am, "DanG" wrote:
I am always amazed at the number of people who want to holler
about inspectors fixing everything.

Inspectors work with code.
Code identifies construction minimums.

Code is most highly related to life safety issues. Boards must
be
a certain minimum size, nails must be a certain size and
number.
Foundation concrete needs to meet size and strength minimums.
Handrails, stairs,and ramps need to meet size requirements.
Exits
must meet size and number requirements. Things must meet
certain
fire ratings. There is usually a footing inspection, framing
inspection, and final leading to occupancy.

Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical inspections do the same thing at
an
even more stringent safety level.

There is no inspector/inspection alive that could care less
about
a crack in any of your slab concrete. They don't care if your
brick work cracks. They don't even care if your foundation
cracks. They don't care what brand water heater or furnace you
use. They only care that things won't burn down, fall down,
catch
on fire, hurt someone else, electrocute someone, contaminate
anyone else or harm city infrastructure.

There is no code requirement for slab reinforcement, jointing,
expansion/contraction control, subsoil compaction, proper fill,
type of finish, or anything else about flat work concrete.
These
are all issues that are cosmetic only. Code just doesn't care
if
the window or door is crooked, won't latch, siding is crooked,
didn't get painted, has the worst texture job in the world.

This guy's cracked patio is due to lack of proper control
joints.
There is no need for an expansion joint at the foundation
unless
the concrete is trapped. Re-bar and re-mesh are not required
and
may actually do more harm than good. It is too bad there are
not
code driven compaction requirements. The slab will probably
end
up settling along the foundation due to loose fill and holding
water.

Don't expect code or inspectors to adjudicate or address
cosmetic
issues. Ain't happening. This is an issue between owner and
builder. The builder or his subcontractor did not follow
industry
guidelines and did not do all that he could have to prevent the
cosmetic problem. If he is using subs that would pour a long
rectangle without joints, I would worry more about all other
subs
at every level.

______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked
down
the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of
Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the
builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the
best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in
maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look
great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8"
crack
on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I
wouldn't
accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This
should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the
crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span?
Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long
without
a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack of
inspection) as with my other problems.

I have a question about the framing inspection because I have a
front
door that is out of square and a sliding patio door that is out
of
square. Do inspectors look to see if openings are square or do
they
check doors after they are installed?

On Nov 3, 11:10 am, "DanG" wrote:
None of the above. It is not a code issue. A frame would have to
be so far out of square, plumb, or true that is could fall down
before it was remotely a code issue. There is no requirement to
be square.

Building inspectors just DO NOT deal with cosmetic or functional
issues. There is no code requiring that your dishwasher
works.There is no code that says your door must latch. There is a
code that your bedroom window must open as a fire escape. There
is a code sizing and numbering means of egress. Code deals with
life safety.

Nonsense. There are all kinds of laws, rules, restrictions as to
what a building must conform to that have nothing to do with
safety. For example, in many areas, you can't build a house higher
than a certain number of feet or stories. That has nothing to do
with safety, as obviously there are other houses in other towns that
are much higher and no one is having problems because of it Or codes
that say homes must have a certain minimum amount of insulation. Is a
house unsafe because it doesn't have enough attic insulation?

You have no way of knowing that there isn't a requirement for control
joints in concrete in his area that says you can't have a 21 ft span
without one. So, he should just sit down and shut up, and not check
with the building dept in his town because you say so?






Codes are usually the result of insurance industry
losses that have to do with law suit items where there has been
loss of life.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Nov 3, 10:38 am, "DanG" wrote:
I am always amazed at the number of people who want to holler
about inspectors fixing everything.

Inspectors work with code.
Code identifies construction minimums.

Code is most highly related to life safety issues. Boards must
be
a certain minimum size, nails must be a certain size and
number.
Foundation concrete needs to meet size and strength minimums.
Handrails, stairs,and ramps need to meet size requirements.
Exits
must meet size and number requirements. Things must meet
certain
fire ratings. There is usually a footing inspection, framing
inspection, and final leading to occupancy.

Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical inspections do the same thing at
an
even more stringent safety level.

There is no inspector/inspection alive that could care less
about
a crack in any of your slab concrete. They don't care if your
brick work cracks. They don't even care if your foundation
cracks. They don't care what brand water heater or furnace you
use. They only care that things won't burn down, fall down,
catch
on fire, hurt someone else, electrocute someone, contaminate
anyone else or harm city infrastructure.

There is no code requirement for slab reinforcement, jointing,
expansion/contraction control, subsoil compaction, proper fill,
type of finish, or anything else about flat work concrete.
These
are all issues that are cosmetic only. Code just doesn't care
if
the window or door is crooked, won't latch, siding is crooked,
didn't get painted, has the worst texture job in the world.

This guy's cracked patio is due to lack of proper control
joints.
There is no need for an expansion joint at the foundation
unless
the concrete is trapped. Re-bar and re-mesh are not required
and
may actually do more harm than good. It is too bad there are
not
code driven compaction requirements. The slab will probably
end
up settling along the foundation due to loose fill and holding
water.

Don't expect code or inspectors to adjudicate or address
cosmetic
issues. Ain't happening. This is an issue between owner and
builder. The builder or his subcontractor did not follow
industry
guidelines and did not do all that he could have to prevent the
cosmetic problem. If he is using subs that would pour a long
rectangle without joints, I would worry more about all other
subs
at every level.

______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked
down
the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC of
Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the
builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would the
best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief in
maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will look
great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8"
crack
on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I
wouldn't
accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This
should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the
crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span?
Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long
without
a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack of
inspection) as with my other problems.

I have a question about the framing inspection because I have a
front
door that is out of square and a sliding patio door that is out
of
square. Do inspectors look to see if openings are square or do
they
check doors after they are installed?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have at, bigtime! Please report back the results.

Building heights are a zoning issue. Insulation thickness would
be a local amendment, not a matter for national code.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 3, 11:10 am, "DanG" wrote:
None of the above. It is not a code issue. A frame would have
to
be so far out of square, plumb, or true that is could fall down
before it was remotely a code issue. There is no requirement
to
be square.

Building inspectors just DO NOT deal with cosmetic or
functional
issues. There is no code requiring that your dishwasher
works.There is no code that says your door must latch. There
is a
code that your bedroom window must open as a fire escape.
There
is a code sizing and numbering means of egress. Code deals
with
life safety.

Nonsense. There are all kinds of laws, rules, restrictions as
to
what a building must conform to that have nothing to do with
safety. For example, in many areas, you can't build a house
higher
than a certain number of feet or stories. That has nothing to
do
with safety, as obviously there are other houses in other towns
that
are much higher and no one is having problems because of it Or
codes
that say homes must have a certain minimum amount of insulation.
Is a
house unsafe because it doesn't have enough attic insulation?

You have no way of knowing that there isn't a requirement for
control
joints in concrete in his area that says you can't have a 21 ft
span
without one. So, he should just sit down and shut up, and not
check
with the building dept in his town because you say so?






Codes are usually the result of insurance industry
losses that have to do with law suit items where there has been
loss of life.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Nov 3, 10:38 am, "DanG" wrote:
I am always amazed at the number of people who want to
holler
about inspectors fixing everything.

Inspectors work with code.
Code identifies construction minimums.

Code is most highly related to life safety issues. Boards
must
be
a certain minimum size, nails must be a certain size and
number.
Foundation concrete needs to meet size and strength
minimums.
Handrails, stairs,and ramps need to meet size requirements.
Exits
must meet size and number requirements. Things must meet
certain
fire ratings. There is usually a footing inspection,
framing
inspection, and final leading to occupancy.

Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical inspections do the same thing
at
an
even more stringent safety level.

There is no inspector/inspection alive that could care less
about
a crack in any of your slab concrete. They don't care if
your
brick work cracks. They don't even care if your foundation
cracks. They don't care what brand water heater or furnace
you
use. They only care that things won't burn down, fall down,
catch
on fire, hurt someone else, electrocute someone, contaminate
anyone else or harm city infrastructure.

There is no code requirement for slab reinforcement,
jointing,
expansion/contraction control, subsoil compaction, proper
fill,
type of finish, or anything else about flat work concrete.
These
are all issues that are cosmetic only. Code just doesn't
care
if
the window or door is crooked, won't latch, siding is
crooked,
didn't get painted, has the worst texture job in the world.

This guy's cracked patio is due to lack of proper control
joints.
There is no need for an expansion joint at the foundation
unless
the concrete is trapped. Re-bar and re-mesh are not
required
and
may actually do more harm than good. It is too bad there
are
not
code driven compaction requirements. The slab will probably
end
up settling along the foundation due to loose fill and
holding
water.

Don't expect code or inspectors to adjudicate or address
cosmetic
issues. Ain't happening. This is an issue between owner
and
builder. The builder or his subcontractor did not follow
industry
guidelines and did not do all that he could have to prevent
the
cosmetic problem. If he is using subs that would pour a
long
rectangle without joints, I would worry more about all other
subs
at every level.

______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on
wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked
down
the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC
of
Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the
builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would
the
best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief
in
maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will
look
great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8"
crack
on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I
wouldn't
accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This
should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the
crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span?
Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long
without
a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack
of
inspection) as with my other problems.

I have a question about the framing inspection because I have
a
front
door that is out of square and a sliding patio door that is
out
of
square. Do inspectors look to see if openings are square or
do
they
check doors after they are installed?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Nov 3, 1:47 pm, "DanG" wrote:
Have at, bigtime! Please report back the results.

Building heights are a zoning issue. Insulation thickness would
be a local amendment, not a matter for national code.

--

Who said the discussion centered on national code? You told him
there is no code covering concrete patios in his town that might not
have been followed and which the 1/8" crack at 30 days could be
attributed to and it was a waste of time to call the building dept.










______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


wrote in message

ups.com...



On Nov 3, 11:10 am, "DanG" wrote:
None of the above. It is not a code issue. A frame would have
to
be so far out of square, plumb, or true that is could fall down
before it was remotely a code issue. There is no requirement
to
be square.

Building inspectors just DO NOT deal with cosmetic or
functional
issues. There is no code requiring that your dishwasher
works.There is no code that says your door must latch. There
is a
code that your bedroom window must open as a fire escape.
There
is a code sizing and numbering means of egress. Code deals
with
life safety.

Nonsense. There are all kinds of laws, rules, restrictions as
to
what a building must conform to that have nothing to do with
safety. For example, in many areas, you can't build a house
higher
than a certain number of feet or stories. That has nothing to
do
with safety, as obviously there are other houses in other towns
that
are much higher and no one is having problems because of it Or
codes
that say homes must have a certain minimum amount of insulation.
Is a
house unsafe because it doesn't have enough attic insulation?

You have no way of knowing that there isn't a requirement for
control
joints in concrete in his area that says you can't have a 21 ft
span
without one. So, he should just sit down and shut up, and not
check
with the building dept in his town because you say so?

Codes are usually the result of insurance industry
losses that have to do with law suit items where there has been
loss of life.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Nov 3, 10:38 am, "DanG" wrote:
I am always amazed at the number of people who want to
holler
about inspectors fixing everything.

Inspectors work with code.
Code identifies construction minimums.

Code is most highly related to life safety issues. Boards
must
be
a certain minimum size, nails must be a certain size and
number.
Foundation concrete needs to meet size and strength
minimums.
Handrails, stairs,and ramps need to meet size requirements.
Exits
must meet size and number requirements. Things must meet
certain
fire ratings. There is usually a footing inspection,
framing
inspection, and final leading to occupancy.

Plumbing, HVAC, and electrical inspections do the same thing
at
an
even more stringent safety level.

There is no inspector/inspection alive that could care less
about
a crack in any of your slab concrete. They don't care if
your
brick work cracks. They don't even care if your foundation
cracks. They don't care what brand water heater or furnace
you
use. They only care that things won't burn down, fall down,
catch
on fire, hurt someone else, electrocute someone, contaminate
anyone else or harm city infrastructure.

There is no code requirement for slab reinforcement,
jointing,
expansion/contraction control, subsoil compaction, proper
fill,
type of finish, or anything else about flat work concrete.
These
are all issues that are cosmetic only. Code just doesn't
care
if
the window or door is crooked, won't latch, siding is
crooked,
didn't get painted, has the worst texture job in the world.

This guy's cracked patio is due to lack of proper control
joints.
There is no need for an expansion joint at the foundation
unless
the concrete is trapped. Re-bar and re-mesh are not
required
and
may actually do more harm than good. It is too bad there
are
not
code driven compaction requirements. The slab will probably
end
up settling along the foundation due to loose fill and
holding
water.

Don't expect code or inspectors to adjudicate or address
cosmetic
issues. Ain't happening. This is an issue between owner
and
builder. The builder or his subcontractor did not follow
industry
guidelines and did not do all that he could have to prevent
the
cosmetic problem. If he is using subs that would pour a
long
rectangle without joints, I would worry more about all other
subs
at every level.

______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)


"hands on" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Nov 3, 1:43 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:27 pm, Joe wrote:

On Nov 1, 1:20 pm, hands on
wrote:

I have 12 foot x 21 foot concrete patio that cracked
down
the middle
after 30 days of install thanks to Veranda Homes LLC
of
Wilmington,NC.
I tried to fill in the crack but it looks bad and the
builder won't
fix it.
Any ideas how I can cover it up with pavers or would
the
best thing be
to tear it up and replace it?

Build a deck over it. That will give you so much grief
in
maintainance
that when you finally get rid of it the concrte will
look
great.

Joe

You have a 21 ft span with no control joints and an 1/8"
crack
on a
patio that is 30 days old. That is not normal and I
wouldn't
accept
it and would get the building inspector out there. This
should not
happen with concrete work that is done properly. Is the
crack
running approximately perpendicular to the 21ft span?
Concrete
shrinks when it cures and if you have a span that long
without
a
control joint, that could be the problem.

I'm thinking the building inspector was the problem(lack
of
inspection) as with my other problems.

I have a question about the framing inspection because I have
a
front
door that is out of square and a sliding patio door that is
out
of
square. Do inspectors look to see if openings are square or
do
they
check doors after they are installed?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -