Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really basic
questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?
If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get if
this is what you recommend

For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is correct
to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for the rest
of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of coating
it with Kilz first.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?
b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that
the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior
latex is fine ?

Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Bob

On Oct 14, 1:21 pm, "Robert11" wrote:
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really basic
questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?
If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get if
this is what you recommend

For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is correct
to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for the rest
of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of coating
it with Kilz first.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?
b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that
the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior
latex is fine ?

Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Bob

I'm no painting expert but I do paint my own stuff when I HAVE to.

When recently painting a textured ceiling, I used a 'texture' roller
from Home Depot and it did a great job for me.

Hope this helps you.

Lewis.

*****

"Robert11" wrote in
:

Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat
of paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some
really basic questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Assume you mean a pattern vs "popcorn" (the loose crap that makes a mess
when you touch it).

http://www.drywallschool.com/textures.htm


Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?

You can use a roller just fine.

If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to
get if this is what you recommend

3/8" is typical for regular walls/ceilings. Really depends on how deep
the "pattern" is. Go the next size up, like 1/2", should do it. Just
remember that when you first load the roller it may not cover much or
well. The roller has to get soaked with paint. Slightly wetting the
roller before the forst dip in the paint tray will help "prime" it.

Paint sections between pain reloads. After initial direction go
perpendicular to it for eveness.


For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is
correct to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used
for the rest of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Can't remove the fixture? Not sure why. Maybe too much of an issue for
you.

Then trim around the fixture with a brush several inches out. Don't paint
a clean "line" around it then leave that. Paint around it then pull the
brush out away from the fixture in strokes so that the paint "feathers"
out to very thin. This will blend it. When you do the rolling part, don't
worry that you can see where you did the brushing. Overnight when the
brushed and rolled parts are equally dry it should blend.

For the edges, paint it and "feather".


Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

Roll it.


BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of
coating it with Kilz first.

It may take a couple of coats depending on the stain.


a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?

If you can touch it and it is firm like the rest of the ceiling then no.
If it's wet, you gotta find out why and fix it or it will just reappear.
If it's soft but not wet then it must be an old water isssue that has
been fixed and now dried out. Soft stuff should be removed and patched
first. Not sure how bad that's gonna mess up your swirl.

b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such
that the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

Kilz is white unless tinted. If you are painting white over white it
should pretty much cover.


c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality
interior latex is fine ?

Yes. By coincidence it's called ceiling paint :-) Generally it's thicker
than regular paint. Don't get really cheap stuff. I've use the Glidden &
Behr successfully.


Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Two coats of paint always has a nicer finished look. Let it dry the
recommend time on the can between coats. Probably 4 hrs under ideal
conditions.

A pro would probably recommend a coat of primer then a coat of paint.

Clean the ceiling the best you can before painting. TSP is typically
recommended to wash it. Spongemop in a bucket maybe.

Between coats, wrap the roller cover in plastic wrap to prevent it from
drying. If overnight, tossing it in the frig helps but not critical.


Thank you very much,
Bob

Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a
coat of paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask
some really basic questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?
If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type
to get if this is what you recommend

For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is
is correct to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was
used for the rest of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of
coating it with Kilz first.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?
b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat
such that the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality
interior latex is fine ?

Any hints also would be much appreciated.

1. Forget "texture rollers". Those are for *creating* texture.

2. Forget spraying. By the time you prep the room for that you could
be finished, have drunk a six pack and taken the wife out to dinner
and a movie.

3. All light fixtures can be removed.

You can paint either ceiling with either a roller or brush. If you
use a roller, use a fuzzy, long nap roller for the textured ceiling
(long=3/4"). That same roller could be used for the smooth ceiling
but a short nap (or sponge) roller would be better.

Painting a smooth surface with a roller tends to give an orange peel
effect. personally, I like it.

If you use a roller, you need to use a brush to cut in the edges at
the wall first else you'll bump the wall with the roller. Cut in
about 4-6" wide.

You needn't sand the stain. You probably don't even have to use Kilz
on it but if you do the color coat will probably cover the Kilz in one
coat. Depends on the color. If you think it won't cover the Kilz,
paint that area separately with a light, brushed on coat and let dry
before doing the rest of the ceiling.

Any good paint is fine. Make it acrylic latex, though. Myself, I'd
also make it glossy or at least semi-glossy for bathrooms.

When rolling - especially a textured surface - you need to be sure
everything is covered with paint. When you apply the paint, make a
"W" with each part maybe 18" long then roll back and forth on that
area in all directions...lengthwise, crosswise and both diagaonals.
Don't press the roller hard against the surface...the "W" distributes
a thick layer, the back & forth rolling distributes it and gets you an
even coat. Don't be chintzy with the paint but don't leave gobs
either...smooth and even.

An alternative for the smmoth ceiling is a painting pad...those are a
foam pad covered with short nap mohair. I'd use a roller.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Cshenk" wrote in
:

Hi Robert! I'm sure others will have other ideas but here's mine.


"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat
of paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some
really basic questions:

Thats ok. Basic is good.


Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?

Want easy and professional look? You want a spray painter for this.
You can in most areas, rent one. I do not know the price of renting
them, but we have to redo ours as well soon and know that this is the
easy way and looks better too. Caution though. When they call them
'spray painters' they mean exactly that. Prep the entire room by
using masking tape to cover all edges you do not want painted and then
with cheap plastic, cover the walls and anything ese (use masking tape
to secure that plastic). For the floor (probably carpet there right?)
you want *strong* plastic in several layers so that if you make
accidents with the ladder foot and cut through some, you won't ruin
the carpet if you drop a bcket of paint grin, experience here. At
least 2 layers if you have berber carpet, at least 3 if shag/plush. I
find old plastic shower curtins are perfect and you can reuse them
later with more painting. Overlap the seams then use duct tape to
hold them together. Offset the 'seam area' so you do not have 2 seams
laying in the same place. Any rubber backed or plastic backed big
'sheet' will do.

Those cheap paint covers that arent much more than big sheets of
non-sticking saran wrap, will do for the walls but a second layer of
that too isnt a bad idea. Esecially since you are new at this and
might have an 'oops' and rip the first layer at some point. If you
plan to paint the walls at the same time, dont bother to cover them
but use a roller. Sprayers on walls tend to leave 'drips' unless you
are very good with them. Tht will not show on a ceiling. Practice
first with something cheap like a piece of old warped plywood tucked
up so you are spraying over your head.

Safety note no matter whch method you use (sprayer, roller, brush):
You need wrap around non-vented goggles and some sort of mask that
goes over your mouth and nose. As the goggles get speckled, wash them
off with water (use latex paint) befre it dries and have a second pair
handy. A cheap showercap is a very good idea.


If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to
get if this is what you recommend

If the sprayer doesnt match what you want or is too expensive, I'd use
a brush. The rollers are going to have a problem getting inbetween
the textured finished parts no matter what you do. Unless you are
very used to upper body workouts, you'll find each day you can do
about 6x6ft area so expect to do this in pieces. You'd want a good
5-6 inch wide thick (about 1/2 inch) bristle brush that can hold pait
at the end parts.


For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is
correct to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used
for the rest of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

It will be fine, but i wouldnt use a roller on a textured ceiling.



Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.
Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

Roller is best and faster. Paint sprayer might not be optimal.
Standard rollers will work fine. In fact, be sure the handle is a
cheaper lighter weight one. You wll be reaching over your head with
your arm up for quite a time and unless youve tried it, you don't
realize how fast just 3 extra ounces will mean when doing a ceiling.


BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of
coating it with Kilz first.

Actually first thing is to make sure you don't have a leak. If it is
a slow developing spreading stain, you have a leak and painting it
will just cver damage that later can be severely expensive. Water
stains on a ceiling are the fist sign of a roof job. Done early, they
do not cost much (comparatively). Often just replacing the tiles and
you can layer tiles up to 3 layers thick in most places before you
have to pay to have them removed and redone. We hit that in our house
and had to pay for removal and some of the panels were rotting so were
also done. *ouch*. 8,000$ versus just adding a layer (had we not
already had 3 there) at less than 1,000$.

If you are sure you do not have a leak, yes. Treat and prime then
paint. Not sure what 'kilz' is but if it's not a primer, then do not
skip priming. You can prime just that section if you want but we
usually do the whole thing.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?

No, but if it is due to an existing leak, nothing will fix it until
you fix the leak.

b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such
that the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

Grin, sorry as said, I do not recognize the name 'kilz'. If it is a
primer, then yes. That is what it is for.

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality
interior latex is fine ?

Any interior paint will do but there are special ones that people do
use with sprayers to both create the knobby texture and add 'sparkle'.
I have such in m livingroom. Has a faint gold sparkle that picks up
well with the wooded walls. I also have a harder time with the
masking tape and coverage wth plastic as it has lovely solid wood
beams at roughly 24 inch apart sections all along the ceiling. I used
masking tape and 15 rolls of saran wrap last time just to protect the
beans from paint overspray. Worked well but took us 3 days to get all
the plastic preps up, then we rented the sprayer and were done in 2
hours. Don actually dropped the sprayer when he ran into the ceiling
fan (masking tape holding up a clear garbage bag over the whole thing
to protect it) and we were really glad for the 3 layers of plastic
over our 6$ a yard carpet that we definately did NOT want to have to
replace!



Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Happy to help Bob!
Carol




The guy says he's a novice right up front.

spray painter?
easy?

Robert11 wrote:

Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really basic
questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?
If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get if
this is what you recommend

For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is correct
to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for the rest
of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of coating
it with Kilz first.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?
b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that
the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior
latex is fine ?

Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Bob



If you have the "combed" swirl, it is not deep/rough enough to worry
about. Use 1/4" nap roller. Covery your brown water stain with primer
- Kilz makes good ones, but any good brand of primer with stain-blocking
quality will do. Depending on old finish, you can see a difference in
gloss between spot-primed area and the rest - in a small bath, either
prime the whole ceiling or do two coats of paint.

There is a lot of stuff labelled as "ceiling" paint or "bathroom" paint.
I use semi-gloss alkyd for walls and ceilings in bath. Be sure old
surface is CLEAN and DRY.

On Oct 14, 4:12 pm, Norminn wrote:
Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really basic
questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?
If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get if
this is what you recommend

For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is correct
to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for the rest
of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of coating
it with Kilz first.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?
b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that
the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior
latex is fine ?

Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Bob

If you have the "combed" swirl, it is not deep/rough enough to worry
about. Use 1/4" nap roller. Covery your brown water stain with primer
- Kilz makes good ones, but any good brand of primer with stain-blocking
quality will do. Depending on old finish, you can see a difference in
gloss between spot-primed area and the rest - in a small bath, either
prime the whole ceiling or do two coats of paint.

There is a lot of stuff labelled as "ceiling" paint or "bathroom" paint.
I use semi-gloss alkyd for walls and ceilings in bath. Be sure old
surface is CLEAN and DRY.

********************
My bathroom walls have an "orange peel" finish. I painted them (walls
and ceiling) with semi-gloss paint. I used a roller and a brush. I
used a brush in the areas too small for a roller - - and then I rolled
as close to the brush finish as I could get to make it look the same.
I wanted a washable paint in the bathrooms. You can seal the "brown"
area with Kiltz or Painter's Insurance.

Hi Robert! I'm sure others will have other ideas but here's mine.


"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really
basic questions:

Thats ok. Basic is good.


Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?

Want easy and professional look? You want a spray painter for this. You
can in most areas, rent one. I do not know the price of renting them, but
we have to redo ours as well soon and know that this is the easy way and
looks better too. Caution though. When they call them 'spray painters'
they mean exactly that. Prep the entire room by using masking tape to cover
all edges you do not want painted and then with cheap plastic, cover the
walls and anything ese (use masking tape to secure that plastic). For the
floor (probably carpet there right?) you want *strong* plastic in several
layers so that if you make accidents with the ladder foot and cut through
some, you won't ruin the carpet if you drop a bcket of paint grin,
experience here. At least 2 layers if you have berber carpet, at least 3
if shag/plush. I find old plastic shower curtins are perfect and you can
reuse them later with more painting. Overlap the seams then use duct tape
to hold them together. Offset the 'seam area' so you do not have 2 seams
laying in the same place. Any rubber backed or plastic backed big 'sheet'
will do.

Those cheap paint covers that arent much more than big sheets of
non-sticking saran wrap, will do for the walls but a second layer of that
too isnt a bad idea. Esecially since you are new at this and might have an
'oops' and rip the first layer at some point. If you plan to paint the
walls at the same time, dont bother to cover them but use a roller.
Sprayers on walls tend to leave 'drips' unless you are very good with them.
Tht will not show on a ceiling. Practice first with something cheap like a
piece of old warped plywood tucked up so you are spraying over your head.

Safety note no matter whch method you use (sprayer, roller, brush): You
need wrap around non-vented goggles and some sort of mask that goes over
your mouth and nose. As the goggles get speckled, wash them off with water
(use latex paint) befre it dries and have a second pair handy. A cheap
showercap is a very good idea.


If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get
if this is what you recommend

If the sprayer doesnt match what you want or is too expensive, I'd use a
brush. The rollers are going to have a problem getting inbetween the
textured finished parts no matter what you do. Unless you are very used to
upper body workouts, you'll find each day you can do about 6x6ft area so
expect to do this in pieces. You'd want a good 5-6 inch wide thick (about
1/2 inch) bristle brush that can hold pait at the end parts.


For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is
correct to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for
the rest of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

It will be fine, but i wouldnt use a roller on a textured ceiling.



Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.
Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

Roller is best and faster. Paint sprayer might not be optimal. Standard
rollers will work fine. In fact, be sure the handle is a cheaper lighter
weight one. You wll be reaching over your head with your arm up for quite a
time and unless youve tried it, you don't realize how fast just 3 extra
ounces will mean when doing a ceiling.


BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of
coating it with Kilz first.

Actually first thing is to make sure you don't have a leak. If it is a slow
developing spreading stain, you have a leak and painting it will just cver
damage that later can be severely expensive. Water stains on a ceiling are
the fist sign of a roof job. Done early, they do not cost much
(comparatively). Often just replacing the tiles and you can layer tiles up
to 3 layers thick in most places before you have to pay to have them removed
and redone. We hit that in our house and had to pay for removal and some of
the panels were rotting so were also done. *ouch*. 8,000$ versus just
adding a layer (had we not already had 3 there) at less than 1,000$.

If you are sure you do not have a leak, yes. Treat and prime then paint.
Not sure what 'kilz' is but if it's not a primer, then do not skip priming.
You can prime just that section if you want but we usually do the whole
thing.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?

No, but if it is due to an existing leak, nothing will fix it until you fix
the leak.

b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that
the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

Grin, sorry as said, I do not recognize the name 'kilz'. If it is a primer,
then yes. That is what it is for.

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior
latex is fine ?

Any interior paint will do but there are special ones that people do use
with sprayers to both create the knobby texture and add 'sparkle'. I have
such in m livingroom. Has a faint gold sparkle that picks up well with the
wooded walls. I also have a harder time with the masking tape and coverage
wth plastic as it has lovely solid wood beams at roughly 24 inch apart
sections all along the ceiling. I used masking tape and 15 rolls of saran
wrap last time just to protect the beans from paint overspray. Worked well
but took us 3 days to get all the plastic preps up, then we rented the
sprayer and were done in 2 hours. Don actually dropped the sprayer when he
ran into the ceiling fan (masking tape holding up a clear garbage bag over
the whole thing to protect it) and we were really glad for the 3 layers of
plastic over our 6$ a yard carpet that we definately did NOT want to have to
replace!



Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Happy to help Bob!
Carol

Opps! Just noted it was a bathroom. Ignore the notes about carpet grin.
Carol
"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really
basic questions:

Ceiling No. 1 has a textured finish; the typical "swirl" type.

Do I want to use a roller or a brush ?
If a roller, what type of knap, etc. Really don't know what type to get
if this is what you recommend

For the edges, and light fixtures that can't be removed, etc., is is
correct to use a brush for these areas, even though a roller was used for
the rest of the ceiling; will it "blend in" O,K, if I do ?

Ceiling No. 2 is smooth.

Again, is a roller or a brush best ?

BTW: one of them has a small brown water stain. I was thinking of
coating it with Kilz first.

a. Do I have to sand or gouge out the brown part first ?
b. Will a high quality latex go over the Kilz in a single coat such that
the Kilz coating will not be apparent ?

c. Are there special paints for ceilings, or any high quality interior
latex is fine ?

Any hints also would be much appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Bob

Cshenk wrote:
Opps! Just noted it was a bathroom. Ignore the notes about carpet grin.
Carol
"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello:

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really
basic questions:
(snip)
Nah, carpeted bathrooms are surprisingly common. Stupid, IMHO,
especially in houses with kids, or adult males who like their beer. It
is usually a cut-to-fit rubber-back drop-in carpet, though. Think a
giant version of those nasty U-shaped things that fit around toilet.
(notorious floor rotters that they are.)

aem sends...

Opps! Just noted it was a bathroom. Ignore the notes about carpet
grin.

Have two bathrooms, both of whose ceilings I would like to add a coat of
paint to. Am a true novice with this, so may I please ask some really
basic questions:
(snip)

Nah, carpeted bathrooms are surprisingly common. Stupid, IMHO, especially
in houses with kids, or adult males who like their beer. It is usually a
cut-to-fit rubber-back drop-in carpet, though. Think a giant version of
those nasty U-shaped things that fit around toilet. (notorious floor
rotters that they are.)

Really? That makes me giggle a bit. Oh, I've had bathmats and such but
never a carpeted bathroom.
xxcarol