How can I wire this light switch that expects three wires but I have only
two coming from my circular flourescent ceiling light?

I bought the Legrand "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual on/off" whose specifications say it's for a "single
pole circuit", 120V/60hz, 1/6HP fan, 0-600 watt incandescent or flourescent
light.

The switch has four (4) wires labelled
1. black = hot
2. white = neutral
3. red = load
4. green = ground

The instructions say
a. Connect the green wire on the switch to bare wire ground (if any)
b. Connect the white wire on the switch to the "neutral wire"
c. Connect the black wire on the switch to the "power wire"
d. Connect the red wire on the switch to the "load"

The problem is the box in the wall has only two wires.
1. black
2. white

The ground is optional so what I'm confused about is how to connect the
white wire from the circuit. Do I connect it to the red wire or the white
wire on the switch? There are no other wires in the brown plastic box.

I keep calling the technical support number 888-817-0571 but it always says
it's temporarily unavailable.

Can you advise me how to wire black/white/red on the switch to black/white
in the wall?

"OneSolution" wrote in message
...
How can I wire this light switch that expects three wires but I have only
two coming from my circular flourescent ceiling light?

I bought the Legrand "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual on/off" whose specifications say it's for a "single
pole circuit", 120V/60hz, 1/6HP fan, 0-600 watt incandescent or
flourescent
light.

The switch has four (4) wires labelled
1. black = hot
2. white = neutral
3. red = load
4. green = ground

The instructions say
a. Connect the green wire on the switch to bare wire ground (if any)
b. Connect the white wire on the switch to the "neutral wire"
c. Connect the black wire on the switch to the "power wire"
d. Connect the red wire on the switch to the "load"

The problem is the box in the wall has only two wires.
1. black
2. white

If you only have one black and one white, you won't be able to put your new
sensor here.

The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should also
have a bare copper wire, which is ground.

This is because the switch comes AFTER the light in your circuit instead of
before it.

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:

The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should also
have a bare copper wire, which is ground. This is because the switch comes
AFTER the light in your circuit instead of before it.

Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the advice.
I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter if
the switch is before or after the load?

Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot (incoming
120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
(outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.

In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you noted,
so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.

While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because I
don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the three
wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why this
circuit is different.

If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
"WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
on/off" wall switch worked fine.

Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white and
ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
and a red wire?

"OneSolution" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:

The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should
also
have a bare copper wire, which is ground. This is because the switch
comes
AFTER the light in your circuit instead of before it.

Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the advice.
I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter
if
the switch is before or after the load?

Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot (incoming
120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
(outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.

In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you noted,
so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.

While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because
I
don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the three
wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why this
circuit is different.

If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
"WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
on/off" wall switch worked fine.

Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white
and
ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
and a red wire?

It is not unusual for a switch to simply be connected to the "hot" and the
"load" (the other side of the lamp from the neutral). So then you will only
have the "hot" and the outgoing wire to the lamp fixture, thus there is no
neutral to power your electronics in the sensor.
--
Cheers .......... Rheilly P

The actual feed 120 volt, for the circuit can be run to the switch, as it
was where you found the two white wires crimped together, or the feed can be
run to the light fixture. If it's run to the light fixture, the neutral
wires don't need to be run down to the switch, so only the "hot" wire is run
down and back from the switch. Not all occupancy sensor switches require a
neutral to operate. Some will work with only the two wires, although I'm not
sure they would work with a fluorescent fixture



"Rheilly Phoull" wrote in message
...

"OneSolution" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:

The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched
on
and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should
also
have a bare copper wire, which is ground. This is because the switch
comes
AFTER the light in your circuit instead of before it.

Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the
advice.
I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter
if
the switch is before or after the load?

Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot
(incoming
120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
(outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.

In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you
noted,
so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.

While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because
I
don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the
three
wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why
this
circuit is different.

If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
"WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
on/off" wall switch worked fine.

Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white
and
ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
and a red wire?

It is not unusual for a switch to simply be connected to the "hot" and the
"load" (the other side of the lamp from the neutral). So then you will
only have the "hot" and the outgoing wire to the lamp fixture, thus there
is no neutral to power your electronics in the sensor.
--
Cheers .......... Rheilly P

"OneSolution" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:

The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched
on
and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should
also
have a bare copper wire, which is ground. This is because the switch
comes
AFTER the light in your circuit instead of before it.

Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the advice.
I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter
if
the switch is before or after the load?

Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot (incoming
120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
(outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.

In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you noted,
so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.

While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because
I
don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the three
wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why this
circuit is different.

If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
"WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
on/off" wall switch worked fine.

Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white
and
ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
and a red wire?


If the switch was wired according to generally accepted practices, the white
wire is probably the hot and the black wire is the load. A simple bulb and
pigtail socket can confirm this. Check each wire to ground. You need a
neutral to operate the WattStopper just like you need a neutral to operate
the light fixture. You do not have a neutral so you cannot use the
WattStopper to replace this switch. The alternative is to rewire the switch
with a three wire cable from the ceiling light.

In this case the original installer found it easiest to just run a switch
leg to the wall switch from the ceiling light to interrupt current going to
the light fixture. If you were to remove the light fixture and look in the
ceiling box you may see that the white wire from the switch is connected to
a black hot wire and tucked into the back of the box. You should also see
the black wire from the switch connected to the light fixture and a white
neutral wire connected to the light fixture as well.

Other wall boxes may have more wires in them because the original installer
chose to use them as junction boxes to make splices so that other outlets,
switches, or lights can be fed from those particular locations. Either way
is acceptable. Lately I have been running my feeds through the switch box
because of instances such as yours when a neutral is required.

"Noozer" wrote in message
news:PA%Mi.284037$fJ5.225346@pd7urf1no...

"OneSolution" wrote in message
...
How can I wire this light switch that expects three wires but I have only
two coming from my circular flourescent ceiling light?

I bought the Legrand "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual on/off" whose specifications say it's for a "single
pole circuit", 120V/60hz, 1/6HP fan, 0-600 watt incandescent or
flourescent
light.

The switch has four (4) wires labelled
1. black = hot
2. white = neutral
3. red = load
4. green = ground

The instructions say
a. Connect the green wire on the switch to bare wire ground (if any)
b. Connect the white wire on the switch to the "neutral wire"
c. Connect the black wire on the switch to the "power wire"
d. Connect the red wire on the switch to the "load"

The problem is the box in the wall has only two wires.
1. black
2. white

If you only have one black and one white, you won't be able to put your
new sensor here.

The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
and off and is the load.

Going by the NEC, the white is the feed to the switch, and the black feeds
the load. You are not allowed to use a white wire to carry the "hot" at the
point of consumption.

OneSolution wrote:
How can I wire this light switch that expects three wires but I have only
two coming from my circular flourescent ceiling light?

I bought the Legrand "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual on/off" whose specifications say it's for a "single
pole circuit", 120V/60hz, 1/6HP fan, 0-600 watt incandescent or flourescent
light.

The switch has four (4) wires labelled
1. black = hot
2. white = neutral
3. red = load
4. green = ground

The instructions say
a. Connect the green wire on the switch to bare wire ground (if any)
b. Connect the white wire on the switch to the "neutral wire"
c. Connect the black wire on the switch to the "power wire"
d. Connect the red wire on the switch to the "load"

The problem is the box in the wall has only two wires.
1. black
2. white

The ground is optional so what I'm confused about is how to connect the
white wire from the circuit. Do I connect it to the red wire or the white
wire on the switch? There are no other wires in the brown plastic box.

I keep calling the technical support number 888-817-0571 but it always says
it's temporarily unavailable.

Can you advise me how to wire black/white/red on the switch to black/white
in the wall?

Your new sensor switch needs a hot and a neutral to power the
sensor circuitry in the switch. That takes 2 wires. In addition,
it switches a load on/off, so you need an additional wire from
the switch to the load. Finally, it needs a fourth wire if it is
to be grounded, as it should be.

Ignoring ground, you have only 2 wires, so your switch cannot
work in that location, unless you do some rewiring. Perhaps a
diagram will make this clear:

EXISTING CIRCUIT

Load J-box Switch box
---------- ----------
Hot -----|----------|-------------|-----+ |
| | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | |
Neutral -|--+ +--|-------------|--------+ |
| | | | | |
---------- ----------
| |
Light Fixture

Note that there is no neutral wire inside the switch junction
box. Therefore, your sensor switch does not get the power it
needs. Here's a diagram of what the wiring would need to look
like for your sensor switch to work:


Load J-box Switch box
---------- -------------
Hot -----|----------|-------------|-----+--+ |
| | | | | |
| +-------|-------------|-CKT-+ | | |
| | | | | |
Neutral -|--+ +--|-------------|-----------+ |
| | | | | |
---------- -------------
| |
Light Fixture

With the wiring above, the sensor circuit (CKT in the diagram)
gets the hot and neutral connections it needs to operate.

There is another way that wiring can run. It does not apply
to your situation (because your power feed is to the junction
box with the light fixture), but I'll diagram it for reference:

Load J-box Switch box
---------- ----------
| | | +--------|--- Hot
| | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | |
| +-------|-------------|----+ |
| | | | |
| | +--|-------------|----------|--- Neutral
| | | | | |
---------- ----------
| |
Light Fixture

Note that in the diagram above 2 cables, each containing
a white wire, a black wire and a ground wire (ground wire
not shown) run into the junction box where the switch
is located. (In your case, you have only 1 cable.)
Power feed is to the switch box in the diagram above,
not to the fixture box as is the case with your existing
wiring.

Ed

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 05:25:42 -0700, Long Ranger wrote:

Going by the NEC, the white is the feed to the switch, and the black feeds
the load. You are not allowed to use a white wire to carry the "hot" at the
point of consumption.

On my way to work today, I finally got through to WattStopper Legrand at
+1-888-817-0571. The support guy answered immediately. Twice (I lost the
call when I moved from one cell to another).

The guy looked up the spec for the "RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual On/Off". What he told me was more in line with John
Grabowski than that above.

He said:
1. Generally when you have a white/black/bare in the wall box, the white is
the HOT wire (not the black!).

2. The switch will work with two wires but the night light won't light.

3. It should work fine with flourescent or incandescent, even with just two
of the four wires on the switch hooked up (white/black/red/green).

He specifically said to wire in this order:
1. Tie the ground (bare) wire in the wall to the green in the switch.
2. Tie the load (black) in the wall to the white wire in the switch
3. Tie the hot (white) in the wall to the black wire in the switch

I'll try it tonight when I get back from work. He said this isn't the
optimal confuration but only the night-light LED won't work.

It's too hard to connect the green (ground) wire to the bare wire as the
bare wire doesn't have any connection anywhere in the box. Do you think
that will matter if I don't connect the green wire (I think it's optional)?

Thanks for all your wonderful volunteer help!

"OneSolution" wrote:

He said:
1. Generally when you have a white/black/bare in the wall box, the
white is the HOT wire (not the black!).

At an outlet box it is generally exactly the opposite. Neutral is
white. Hot is black. Ground is green or bare. In a switch box the
white is often the unswitched hot and the black is switched hot
though some people reverse that.

2. The switch will work with two wires but the night light won't
light.

That depends. In switches in my home the night light is wired across
the switch. If the light is on the night light is off and vice
versa. However, if the bulb goes out the night light doesn't work
either because the circuit is open.

No doubt the switches you're using are of a different design.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================