I'm about to finish my basement and wanted to test the sump pump, but
the cover is sealed with silicone caulk for radon mitigation (there's
a radon pipe coming out of the pit). So my question is that if the
pit is sealed, then if the basement flooded, how would the water get
into the pit for the sump-pump to activate? Would I need to manually
break the seal and open the lid? If I'm out of town when this
happens, am I just screwed? I thought maybe there was a gap between
walls and floor as had been suggested, but it's sealed with the same
caulk as the pit lid. Has anyone seen this before? Am I just missing
something? I've never had water in the basement, but want to be safe
rather than sorry. Thanks

On Sep 27, 7:59 pm, wrote:
I'm about to finish my basement and wanted to test the sump pump, but
the cover is sealed with silicone caulk for radon mitigation (there's
a radon pipe coming out of the pit). So my question is that if the
pit is sealed, then if the basement flooded, how would the water get
into the pit for the sump-pump to activate? Would I need to manually
break the seal and open the lid? If I'm out of town when this
happens, am I just screwed? I thought maybe there was a gap between
walls and floor as had been suggested, but it's sealed with the same
caulk as the pit lid. Has anyone seen this before? Am I just missing
something? I've never had water in the basement, but want to be safe
rather than sorry. Thanks

The purpose of the sump pump isn't to pump water out of the basement
if it fills up with water. It's purpose is to collect water from the
drain tile and pump it out of the house. If you took the cover off,
you would see the drains running into the sump crock.

JK

On Sep 27, 8:24 pm, Big_Jake wrote:
On Sep 27, 7:59 pm, wrote:

I'm about to finish my basement and wanted to test the sump pump, but
the cover is sealed with silicone caulk for radon mitigation (there's
a radon pipe coming out of the pit). So my question is that if the
pit is sealed, then if the basement flooded, how would the water get
into the pit for the sump-pump to activate? Would I need to manually
break the seal and open the lid? If I'm out of town when this
happens, am I just screwed? I thought maybe there was a gap between
walls and floor as had been suggested, but it's sealed with the same
caulk as the pit lid. Has anyone seen this before? Am I just missing
something? I've never had water in the basement, but want to be safe
rather than sorry. Thanks

The purpose of the sump pump isn't to pump water out of the basement
if it fills up with water. It's purpose is to collect water from the
drain tile and pump it out of the house. If you took the cover off,
you would see the drains running into the sump crock.

JK

in other words the sump fills with water from UNDER the floor so it
still works with the cover in place...

is the radon pipe you mentioned hooked to a ventilator. If the pipe
is pulling air in from the sump, then the seal is not very critical,
even if the seal is broken there will be a negaive pressure in the pit
due to the ventilator and it will pull air...

but you want to keep it resonably well sealed so that it pulls most of
the air from underneath the floor, but if it pulls a little through
the seal, its not a real problem..

You should manually run the sump pump for a few seconds every few
months so that the bearings do not seize up...

Mark

The purpose of the sump pump isn't to pump water out of the basement
if it fills up with water. It's purpose is to collect water from the
drain tile and pump it out of the house. If you took the cover off,
you would see the drains running into the sump crock.

I understand that the "Main" purpose of a sump pump is to pump out
water that is never actually in the house to begin with, but isn't a
secondary (and potentially very useful) usage to pump out water that
does somehow accumulate in the basement? I know that growing up,
whenever we had water heater issues, and the basement flooded, the
first thing we did was to squeegee the water over to the sump pit so
the pump could do it's thing.

You should manually run the sump pump for a few seconds every few
months so that the bearings do not seize up...

This is what I want to do - to test the sump pump to make sure it
works, regardless of whether it's to pump out basement water, or water
from the drain tile. My question is: Is it worth pulling up the caulk
to test it, only to have to re-caulk it afterward? Can I bore a hole
in the top of the sump pit cover, test it, and then plug that hole
with an airtight (but not caulked) rubber plug?

Thanks again!

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:59:45 -0700, wrote:

The purpose of the sump pump isn't to pump water out of the basement
if it fills up with water. It's purpose is to collect water from the
drain tile and pump it out of the house. If you took the cover off,
you would see the drains running into the sump crock.

Do you actually have a radon problem? Most people don't, and
originally, when the radon problem was discovered, remediation was
only done for people who do, when they requested it.

But I would bet that a sealed sump pump and "Radon protected" housing
really appeals to some people (women?) and by now, I wouldn't be
surprised if they put a sealed sump and fan in every house, over a
certain price perhaps, or in certain parts of the country.

How old is your house. WAs it built after radon was an issue or was it
retrofitted? How expensive is it? Is it part of a development and
all the other people in it have sealed sumps also? Most importantly,
get a radon test and test it. I think they all have to be sent in to
be analysed. When I did this 15 or 18 years ago, there were 1 day
tests and 7 or 10 day tests. The longer ones are better.

A couple years after this problem was known -- I waited some until the
price of test kits went down, but then my mother panicked and bought
me one -- I tested my basement with the 7 or 10 day test, and I passed
way below the danger level. 1/1000 of it, or something like that.

I understand that the "Main" purpose of a sump pump is to pump out
water that is never actually in the house to begin with, but isn't a
secondary (and potentially very useful) usage to pump out water that
does somehow accumulate in the basement?

I am just an amateur, but I think so. After one of my first floods
(none of which were higher than an 1/8 of an inch) I cut holes in the
rubber lip of my sump pump, because the lip is almost a half inch high
and I don't want to wait until the water gets that high. So far, only
one of my floods has even wet the floor all the way to the sump, and I
don't know if any water has ever gone into the sump, but I would still
want it to be available, unless it was a source of radon.

? I know that growing up,
whenever we had water heater issues, and the basement flooded, the
first thing we did was to squeegee the water over to the sump pit so
the pump could do it's thing.

You should manually run the sump pump for a few seconds every few
months so that the bearings do not seize up...

This is what I want to do - to test the sump pump to make sure it
works, regardless of whether it's to pump out basement water, or water
from the drain tile. My question is: Is it worth pulling up the caulk
to test it, only to have to re-caulk it afterward? Can I bore a hole
in the top of the sump pit cover, test it, and then plug that hole
with an airtight (but not caulked) rubber plug?

I would think so, but someone else will have to tell you what the
cover is like inside. Mine is black plastic and I'm sure it's mostly
hollow inside. I've seen one sealed sump but I doubt the owner knew
anymore than if he didn't live there.

P&M

Thanks again!

We've owned this house for about 1.5 years, and on the initial
inspection we got it radon tested and it passed by a mile. The radon
kit and sealed sump are exactly what you postulated - they're put in
every home in the development...ours is only 10 years old. But at the
same time, radon kills and I don't want to assume that just because it
wasn't a problem before that I can just go break a seal that was
intentionally made without good just cause.

In fact, my situation is similar to yours in that the lip of the sump
pit rises above the slab by about 1 inch, so that there would be a lot
of water in the basement before it would drain into the pit, but I'd
like to know if I even have that option available if need be.

Thanks for your advice.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:47:32 -0700, wrote Re
sealed sump pit for radon mitigation:

radon kills

Yes, I remember when I was a kid seeing many of my neighbors die from
it. They were dropping like flies. One was only 75-years old.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:47:32 -0700, wrote:

We've owned this house for about 1.5 years, and on the initial
inspection we got it radon tested and it passed by a mile. The radon
kit and sealed sump are exactly what you postulated - they're put in
every home in the development...ours is only 10 years old. But at the
same time, radon kills and I don't want to assume that just because it
wasn't a problem before that I can just go break a seal that was
intentionally made without good just cause.

So you tested for radon with the sump sealed. If you want to know
what it is going to be like with it unsealed, you really have to test
then.

Isn't that true? Because the cement floor might make a good seal --
always makes a good seal where it's not cracked iiuc -- but the sump
doesn't have a cement floor iiuc and doesn't have cement walls. So it
never makes a good seal unless it has that seal you have.

Despite all this, I don't think there is even a radon source below
more than 10% of houses??? You can check that out.


I was even thinking of cutting a channel, or building levees, to take
the floods from my basement sink over to the sump. But it was too
much effort and I didn't want the bumps in the floor so Iwent other
routes.

In fact, my situation is similar to yours in that the lip of the sump
pit rises above the slab by about 1 inch, so that there would be a lot
of water in the basement before it would drain into the pit, but I'd
like to know if I even have that option available if need be.

Thanks for your advice.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:47:32 -0700, wrote:

We've owned this house for about 1.5 years, and on the initial
inspection we got it radon tested and it passed by a mile. The radon
kit and sealed sump are exactly what you postulated - they're put in
every home in the development...ours is only 10 years old. But at the
same time, radon kills and I don't want to assume that just because it
wasn't a problem before that I can just go break a seal that was
intentionally made without good just cause.

In fact, my situation is similar to yours in that the lip of the sump
pit rises above the slab by about 1 inch, so that there would be a lot
of water in the basement before it would drain into the pit, but I'd
like to know if I even have that option available if need be.

Thanks for your advice.


This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
Radon is just another way to rip off the public to get more of their
money. They know there's a sucker born every minute. People have
lived in houses for thousands of years and have survived. In fact
they once lived in caves which would seem to be more likely to get
this radon, if it exists....

My only possible belief is that in newer homes, people are mostly
living inside a plastic bag, with all the house wrap and styrofoam.
In that case, it's not just radon, its a buildup of everything and a
lack of oxygen. I for one would not buy or build such a house. I'd
rather spend a few extra dollars on heating than suffocate inside a
plastic bag of a house.

I'd be more worried about all the other pollutants in the home and the
chemicals coming from all the polystyrene, the vinyl siding, and all
the other synthetics, than the invisible radon that seems more like
believing in ghosts that fact.

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
Radon is just another way to rip off the public to get more of their
money. They know there's a sucker born every minute.

Maybe, and yes.

People have
lived in houses for thousands of years and have survived. In fact
they once lived in caves which would seem to be more likely to get
this radon, if it exists....

Radon definitely exists. It's an inert gas with a relatively short
half-life than can suddendly turn into a radioactive heavy metal that can
easily get set into your lungs. Once there it's a good candidate to start
a cancer growth.


My only possible belief is that in newer homes, people are mostly
living inside a plastic bag, with all the house wrap and styrofoam.
In that case, it's not just radon, its a buildup of everything and a
lack of oxygen.

Good point. Tight homes will obviously have a higher concentration of
radon than those that leak like a sieve.

I for one would not buy or build such a house. I'd
rather spend a few extra dollars on heating than suffocate inside a
plastic bag of a house.

I'd be more worried about all the other pollutants in the home and the
chemicals coming from all the polystyrene, the vinyl siding, and all
the other synthetics, than the invisible radon that seems more like
believing in ghosts that fact.

on 9/30/2007 3:49 AM said the following:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:47:32 -0700, wrote:


We've owned this house for about 1.5 years, and on the initial
inspection we got it radon tested and it passed by a mile. The radon
kit and sealed sump are exactly what you postulated - they're put in
every home in the development...ours is only 10 years old. But at the
same time, radon kills and I don't want to assume that just because it
wasn't a problem before that I can just go break a seal that was
intentionally made without good just cause.

In fact, my situation is similar to yours in that the lip of the sump
pit rises above the slab by about 1 inch, so that there would be a lot
of water in the basement before it would drain into the pit, but I'd
like to know if I even have that option available if need be.

Thanks for your advice.



This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
Radon is just another way to rip off the public to get more of their
money. They know there's a sucker born every minute. People have
lived in houses for thousands of years and have survived. In fact
they once lived in caves which would seem to be more likely to get
this radon, if it exists....


How many people do you know that have survived thousands of years?

My only possible belief is that in newer homes, people are mostly
living inside a plastic bag, with all the house wrap and styrofoam.
In that case, it's not just radon, its a buildup of everything and a
lack of oxygen. I for one would not buy or build such a house. I'd
rather spend a few extra dollars on heating than suffocate inside a
plastic bag of a house.

I'd be more worried about all the other pollutants in the home and the
chemicals coming from all the polystyrene, the vinyl siding, and all
the other synthetics, than the invisible radon that seems more like
believing in ghosts that fact.



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:47:02 -0400, "John Gilmer"
wrote:


Radon definitely exists. It's an inert gas with a relatively short
half-life than can suddendly turn into a radioactive heavy metal that can
easily get set into your lungs. Once there it's a good candidate to start
a cancer growth.


OK, please explain where it comes from. (yes, obviously the ground).
I mean what causes it? Is it similar to methane gas, and if so, why
is it not explosive or flammable? How can a heavy metal exist in the
form of a gas? That seems impossible. Considering the name, it
sounds like it would come from Radium, and thus be a radioactive
substance. However, I do know that radiation will go right thru most
materials like concrete, plastic, wood, etc, so therefore it's not
radiation. At least with asbestos, (even though I think that is
another over-rated scare, used to get revenue), there is an actual
substance that can be seen. Radon is like the invisible ghost out to
scare the money out of people's wallets. However, I am willing to
listen and learn more........ And just to learn, my house does not
have a basement and it has a ventilated crawl space. I'd assume I
dont have anything to worry about, right?


Good point. Tight homes will obviously have a higher concentration of
radon than those that leak like a sieve.


My house dont leak like a sieve, but it's not air tight. It was built
in the late 70's. Could use a little more insulation, but even if I
were to reside it, I'd never apply house wrap or styrofoam. My belief
is that both the house, and it's occupant need to breathe. Even in
the winter I often open a window for at least a few minutes a few
times per week to bring in fresh air. There is less oxygen in the
outside air in the winter anyhow, because plants expel oxygen in the
summer, but in winter there are no plants to add to it. I have always
thought the reason people get sick more often in winter is because of
the lower oxygen levels in the air.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:54:12 -0400, willshak
wrote:

How many people do you know that have survived thousands of years?

Just God !!!!!

Of course GW Bush might make that claim too lol

On Oct 1, 1:01?am, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:47:02 -0400, "John Gilmer"
wrote:



Radon definitely exists. It's an inert gas with a relatively short
half-life than can suddendly turn into a radioactive heavy metal that can
easily get set into your lungs. Once there it's a good candidate to start
a cancer growth.

OK, please explain where it comes from. (yes, obviously the ground).
I mean what causes it? Is it similar to methane gas, and if so, why
is it not explosive or flammable? How can a heavy metal exist in the
form of a gas? That seems impossible. Considering the name, it
sounds like it would come from Radium, and thus be a radioactive
substance. However, I do know that radiation will go right thru most
materials like concrete, plastic, wood, etc, so therefore it's not
radiation. At least with asbestos, (even though I think that is
another over-rated scare, used to get revenue), there is an actual
substance that can be seen. Radon is like the invisible ghost out to
scare the money out of people's wallets. However, I am willing to
listen and learn more........ And just to learn, my house does not
have a basement and it has a ventilated crawl space. I'd assume I
dont have anything to worry about, right?



Good point. Tight homes will obviously have a higher concentration of
radon than those that leak like a sieve.

My house dont leak like a sieve, but it's not air tight. It was built
in the late 70's. Could use a little more insulation, but even if I
were to reside it, I'd never apply house wrap or styrofoam. My belief
is that both the house, and it's occupant need to breathe. Even in
the winter I often open a window for at least a few minutes a few
times per week to bring in fresh air. There is less oxygen in the
outside air in the winter anyhow, because plants expel oxygen in the
summer, but in winter there are no plants to add to it. I have always
thought the reason people get sick more often in winter is because of
the lower oxygen levels in the air.

radon gas is a by product of the decay of uranium. I was once in a
public cave where you could see specks of it glow with all the lights
off.

a air to air heat exchager is a good thing for tight buildings...

reclaims some heat while still bringing in fresh air

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 00:01:55 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:47:02 -0400, "John Gilmer"
wrote:


Radon definitely exists. It's an inert gas with a relatively short
half-life than can suddendly turn into a radioactive heavy metal that can
easily get set into your lungs. Once there it's a good candidate to start
a cancer growth.


OK, please explain where it comes from. (yes, obviously the ground).
I mean what causes it? Is it similar to methane gas, and if so, why

No. It's an element, not a compound, and afaik exists one atom at a
time. Yes, that's it. If it could combine even with itself, it
wouldn't be inert, like the other noble (and inert) gases, Helium,
Neon, Argon, Krypton, Xenon, and the iiuc theoretical Uuo, which I
don't find explained anywhere in the article.

is it not explosive or flammable? How can a heavy metal exist in the
form of a gas? That seems impossible.

That does sound strange. Although a molecule of some complicated
hydrocarbon that floats like gasoline might well be heavier than
radon. I don't think it's enough to say that the boiling temperature
is below 70. WHY is the boiling temperature so low? (BTW, it says
the freezing point is -96F. The boiling point is -79.1F, which isn't
much warmer. So it's only a liquid in between those two temps.)

Considering the name, it
sounds like it would come from Radium, and thus be a radioactive
substance.

It says it's named after radium, Ra. The atomic number of radon, Rn,
is 86. Of radium it is....88. That's the number of protons.
Electrons don't weigh much, but the more protons there are, the more
neutrons are needed to keep the protons in the nucleus from repelling
each other and splitting the nuclues 88 protons need a lot more than
88 neutrons, more like 150 or so. There is more to this than since I
was in school, but this is as far as I got.

Discovered in 1900.

I don't like to cite wikipedia, but what the heck:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon

Not cited http://www.radon.com/

"Radon is a significant contaminant that affects indoor air quality
worldwide. Radon gas from natural sources can accumulate in buildings
and reportedly causes 21,000 lung cancer deaths per year in the United
States alone.[1]" They may be counting miners in this, but I think
more than half of the 21,000 are homeowners. We were down to 35,000
traffic deaths a year, and now we're getting close to 50,000 again.

But if you have radon, which can measured for a 10 dollar test,

Yeah, you're right. One of the sources of radon is radium:

Isotopes

There are twenty known isotopes of radon. The most stable isotope
is 222Rn, which is a decay product (daughter product) of 226Ra, has a
half-life of 3.823 days and emits alpha particles. 220Rn is a natural
decay product of thorium and is called “thoron.” It has a half-life of
55.6 seconds and also emits alpha radiation. 219Rn is derived from
actinium, is called “actinon,” is an alpha emitter and has a half-life
of 3.96 seconds.

The full decay series of 238U which produces natural radon is as
follows (with half-lives):

238U (4.5 x 109 yr), 234Th (24.1 days), 234Pa (1.18 min), 234U
(250,000 yr), 230Th (75,000 yr), 226Ra (1,600 yr), 222Rn (3.82 days),
218Po (3.1 min), 214Pb (26.8 min), 214Bi (19.7 min), 214Po (164 µs),
210Pb (22.3 yr), 210Bi (5.01 days), 210Po (138 days), 206Pb (stable).

A long way to get lead. Now if we could only get gold.


"The danger of radon exposure in dwellings was discovered in 1984 with
the case of Stanley Watras, an employee at the Limerick nuclear power
plant in Pennsylvania. Watras set off the radiation alarms on his way
into work for two weeks straight while authorities searched for the
source of the contamination. They were shocked to find that the source
was astonishingly high levels of radon, around 100,000 Bq/m3 (2,700
pCi/L), in his house's basement and it was not related to the nuclear
plant. The risks associated with living in his house were estimated to
be equivalent to smoking 135 packs of cigarettes every day. Following
this event, which was highly publicized, national radon safety
standards were set, and radon detection and ventilation became a
standard homeowner concern.

"Radon is the second most frequent cause of lung cancer, after
cigarette smoking, and radon-induced lung cancer is thought to be the
6th leading cause of cancer death overall.[2][3]"

However, I do know that radiation will go right thru most
materials like concrete, plastic, wood, etc, so therefore it's not
radiation.

There is alpha, beta, and gamma radiation. Alpha can be stopped
comparitively easily. So it won't go through a cement floor. In fact I
think a piece of cardboard will stop it, but the earth is porous and
the gas (not the radiation) can seep through the "pores". The smallest
amount of alpha radiation is equivalent to a helium nucleus, I think,
2 protons and 2 neutrons. Since protons and neutrons weigh about 1,
then 4 of them would weigh 4, and that would account for why it goes
from 226Ra to 222Rn in one step. But if it is coming from a gas, a
atom in the air, and you've inhaled the air before the atom decays,
you get the radiation straight into the lung tissue. They didn't make
this up.

The more they know about the world, the more complicated it gets. They
answer one question and it gives rise to two more.

It has some positive uses, and some quack uses, too.

At least with asbestos, (even though I think that is
another over-rated scare, used to get revenue),

It does seem that way. It seems if the asbestos wrapping on pipes
isn't disturbed, it can stay the way it is for decades, but I haven't
looked in to it. Maybe even in the basement it falls apart?

there is an actual
substance that can be seen. Radon is like the invisible ghost out to
scare the money out of people's wallets. However, I am willing to
listen and learn more........ And just to learn, my house does not
have a basement and it has a ventilated crawl space. I'd assume I
dont have anything to worry about, right?


Good point. Tight homes will obviously have a higher concentration of
radon than those that leak like a sieve.


My house dont leak like a sieve, but it's not air tight. It was built
in the late 70's. Could use a little more insulation, but even if I
were to reside it, I'd never apply house wrap or styrofoam. My belief
is that both the house, and it's occupant need to breathe. Even in

I leave my windows open 7 or 8 months a year, and it leaks the rest of
the year too. I can even see light around the front door. I should
fix some of this stuff. I even have a dirty mark where, when the
furnace wasn't working right, the air was escaping through the mail
slot in the door. Have to wash it or paint.

But I passed the radon test in about 1990. I might fail now, but I
think the odds on that are very slim.

the winter I often open a window for at least a few minutes a few
times per week to bring in fresh air. There is less oxygen in the
outside air in the winter anyhow, because plants expel oxygen in the
summer, but in winter there are no plants to add to it. I have always
thought the reason people get sick more often in winter is because of
the lower oxygen levels in the air.

You want to get rich? Come up with and sell a CO2 generator to keep
plants healthy when the people and animals who live in the house are
on vacation.

Now my plants never seemed to suffer, but I was never gone for more
than 5 weeks once, and they were succulents. And some rich people
will buy anything just to be sure. Just send me my 10 percent, for
thinking of it.

replying to Mark, Luke wrote:
How do you manually runt it if it is sealed? Cant get to it.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...on-253765-.htm

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-5, Luke wrote:
replying to Mark, Luke wrote:
How do you manually runt it if it is sealed? Cant get to it.
--


You're too late. "11 YEARS AGO" after Mark posted to this newsgroup, he was abducted by giant mutant gerbils from outer space. The Air Force was unable to catch up with the flying saucer and Mark hasn't been seen or heard from since. It's feared that the giant mutant gerbils used Mark as a sex slave then ate him when they tired of buggering him. It was a real tragedy and Mark is missed by his family and his pet Earth gerbils. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Space Monster

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 10:01:24 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:44:07 AM UTC-5, Luke wrote:
replying to Mark, Luke wrote:
How do you manually runt it if it is sealed? Cant get to it.
--


You're too late. "11 YEARS AGO" after Mark posted to this newsgroup, he was abducted by giant mutant gerbils from outer space. The Air Force was unable to catch up with the flying saucer and Mark hasn't been seen or heard from since. It's feared that the giant mutant gerbils used Mark as a sex slave then ate him when they tired of buggering him. It was a real tragedy and Mark is missed by his family and his pet Earth gerbils. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Space Monster

nah, I'm still here.

you have a good question.

My pump has two wires that come out of the sump, one for the motor and one for the switch. I can run the pump by plugging the motor wire directly into the wall instead of into the switch. I don't need to open the cover to do this. If your pump has a different, arrangement, then you need a different solution. What kind of float switch do you have?


Mark (escaped from the gerbils)