one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to
provide for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX
so it is grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for
the bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in
the bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently
using a window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents are
done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for the
duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If you locate
the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my house.
I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones, dropping
14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing all wiring
with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide for two
separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is grounded
and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the bathroom. While
I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the bathroom to pull
out the condensation while showering (currently using a window mounted
fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the
ceiling,) but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway (since
my mental plans call for a three gang switch box with light switch, fan
switch, and GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90 degree bend will do
it, would you use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3" or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any recommendations
for a high quality fan unit that would look right in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent,
are those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling might be
better as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO
will eventually want to hang some pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:
Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents are
done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for the
duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If you locate
the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my house.
I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones, dropping
14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing all wiring
with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide for two
separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is grounded
and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the bathroom. While
I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the bathroom to pull
out the condensation while showering (currently using a window mounted
fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel





--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to
provide for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX
so it is grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for
the bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in
the bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently
using a window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate


Doesn't sound like you're in cold climate,
but if so, you have to watch for condensation
inside the vent "hose" running back into the
fan or leaking out into the attic.

Jim

On Aug 25, 9:48 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents are
done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for the
duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If you locate
the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...



one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my house.
I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones, dropping
14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing all wiring
with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide for two
separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is grounded
and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the bathroom. While
I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the bathroom to pull
out the condensation while showering (currently using a window mounted
fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some tips about bathroom fans (condensation issues, bends, etc.) he

http://www.askthebuilder.com/546_Bat...tilation.shtml

And stolen without permission from http://tamtech.com/faq.htm#b5

***** Begin Included Text *****

Questions about bathroom fans

What is a reasonable amount of air flow from a bathroom fan?

An installed airflow of about 100 cfm run intermittently should
suffice. Installed performance will be below the label on the box. To
achieve 100 cfm installed, the rating on the box should be 125 to 150
cfm. Too much ventilation is bad when it dries out the house and
wastes too much energy, but for occupant health, too much is better
than too little.



How can I tell if my bathroom fan is working properly?

There is a simple test you can do yourself to determine if your
bathroom fan is working properly. From six inches away, squeeze a
cloud of baby powder from its container toward the intake grille of
the operating exhaust fan. If the fan is working properly, the powder
will be drawn up into the grille. If it goes to the center of the
grille and is blown back into the room, then the fan is blocked; if
the powder simply hangs in the air, the fan is not working at all. Its
just making noise!



Where should I exhaust the air from a ducted bathroom fan?

Always exhaust the air all the way to the outside. Do not dump it into
the attic. Be sure to use insulated duct in unconditioned spaces such
as attics.



My bathroom fan is sometimes very noisy. Why?

Fan noise goes up with increases in pressure. Fan performance will
decrease as the fan ages.



Any other tips for bathroom fan installation and performance?

Sure!

If the bath fan is mounted on the attic floor and has a plastic duct
attachment nozzle, the plastic may soften in the hot attic. So don't
clamp the ducting to tightly or it can deform the nozzle and cause the
backdraft damper not to work.

Often the first turn of the ducting system is the worst turn. Moving
that turn away from the fan and easing it will greatly improve the
performance.

Flex ducting is twice as restrictive to airflow as smooth ducting.
Increasing the diameter of the duct by one inch will reduce the
resistance by about 40%.

***** End Included Text *****

Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra Quiet
Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic would be great as
well


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the ceiling,)
but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway (since my mental
plans call for a three gang switch box with light switch, fan switch, and
GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90 degree bend will do it, would you
use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3" or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any recommendations for
a high quality fan unit that would look right in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent, are
those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling might be better
as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO will
eventually want to hang some pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:
Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents
are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for
the duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If you
locate the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide
for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is
grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the
bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the
bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently using a
window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing
this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel





--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Speedy Jim wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and
replacing all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2
homerun to provide for two separate general circuits (original homerun
is 14/2 BX so it is grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2
homerun for the bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a
ventilation fan in the bathroom to pull out the condensation while
showering (currently using a window mounted fan) but I am not sure how
to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof
is aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard
to walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent
type thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is
this acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to
doing this?

thanks,

nate


Doesn't sound like you're in cold climate,
but if so, you have to watch for condensation
inside the vent "hose" running back into the
fan or leaking out into the attic.

Jim

Not really, but it will dip below freezing in winter. If I do this
would it be a good idea to then come straight up from the fan, 90 over,
and tweak the horizontal run a little to get it to slope down toward the
vent?

nate

(THIS is why you post, so you get ideas like this?)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Aug 25, 10:17 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra Quiet
Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic would be great as
well

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...



It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the ceiling,)
but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway (since my mental
plans call for a three gang switch box with light switch, fan switch, and
GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90 degree bend will do it, would you
use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3" or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any recommendations for
a high quality fan unit that would look right in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent, are
those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling might be better
as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO will
eventually want to hang some pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:
Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents
are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for
the duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If you
locate the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide
for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is
grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the
bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the
bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently using a
window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing
this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually the "good" fans that are also quiet use 8" I am very happy
with the panasonic fan I installed recently. It makes the others sound
like a blender.

The problem is the size of the duct work. Keep it as wide as possible. I
had to shrink one of mine and it increases noise dramatically and obviously
reduces flow. However a high quality fan going thru 3" duct work instead of
4 inch duct work is still tons better than a builder's special fan which is
what I thru out.


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my house.
I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones, dropping
14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing all wiring
with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide for two
separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is grounded
and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the bathroom. While
I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the bathroom to pull
out the condensation while showering (currently using a window mounted
fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Doesn't sound like you're in cold climate,
but if so, you have to watch for condensation
inside the vent "hose" running back into the
fan or leaking out into the attic.

Jim

Not really, but it will dip below freezing in winter. If I do this would
it be a good idea to then come straight up from the fan, 90 over, and
tweak the horizontal run a little to get it to slope down toward the vent?

nate

I wrapped my duct with insulation.

beecrofter wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:17 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra Quiet
Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic would be great as
well

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...




It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the ceiling,)
but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway (since my mental
plans call for a three gang switch box with light switch, fan switch, and
GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90 degree bend will do it, would you
use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3" or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any recommendations for
a high quality fan unit that would look right in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent, are
those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling might be better
as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO will
eventually want to hang some pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:

Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents
are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for
the duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If you
locate the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide
for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is
grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the
bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the
bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently using a
window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing
this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Actually the "good" fans that are also quiet use 8" I am very happy
with the panasonic fan I installed recently. It makes the others sound
like a blender.


Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a remote
inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the ceiling? It would
seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:26:20 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:
snip?

Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a remote
inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the ceiling? It would
seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate

In my previous house I installed two Fantec inline fans with lighted
ceiling grilles in two bathrooms. They were more expensive than
standard fan/light units, but unless it was absolutely silent in the
house you couldn't hear them running, yet they moved more air than
most small built-in units. They come in different CFM ratings, so you
choose the appropriate size for your room (guidelines on their web
site). I ended up with one 100 cfm and one 150 cfm.

Since I live in NE Ohio, I used insulated flexible ducting between the
grilles and the fans, and between the fans and the sidewall jacks. I
think the insulated ducting helps quiet them as well, and if you
choose a fan a little larger than you need, the extra resistance of
the flex duct won't matter. It's way easier to install than rigid
ductwork.

I'm with you, I prefer to run out a side wall; less chance of leaks.

I put them both on electronic timers so you can set the fan to run for
a few minutes after using the shower to clear the humidity.

I will definitely go the same route when I do my existing home.

Good Luck,

Paul F.

Pat wrote:
Doesn't sound like you're in cold climate,
but if so, you have to watch for condensation
inside the vent "hose" running back into the
fan or leaking out into the attic.

Jim

Not really, but it will dip below freezing in winter. If I do this would
it be a good idea to then come straight up from the fan, 90 over, and
tweak the horizontal run a little to get it to slope down toward the vent?

nate


I wrapped my duct with insulation.



Insulation can help; a lot depends on how cold it gets.

Sloping toward the vent exit is good too.

Jim

Paul Franklin wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:26:20 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:
snip?

Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a remote
inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the ceiling? It would
seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate


In my previous house I installed two Fantec inline fans with lighted
ceiling grilles in two bathrooms. They were more expensive than
standard fan/light units, but unless it was absolutely silent in the
house you couldn't hear them running, yet they moved more air than
most small built-in units. They come in different CFM ratings, so you
choose the appropriate size for your room (guidelines on their web
site). I ended up with one 100 cfm and one 150 cfm.

Since I live in NE Ohio, I used insulated flexible ducting between the
grilles and the fans, and between the fans and the sidewall jacks. I
think the insulated ducting helps quiet them as well, and if you
choose a fan a little larger than you need, the extra resistance of
the flex duct won't matter. It's way easier to install than rigid
ductwork.

I'm with you, I prefer to run out a side wall; less chance of leaks.

I put them both on electronic timers so you can set the fan to run for
a few minutes after using the shower to clear the humidity.

I will definitely go the same route when I do my existing home.

Good Luck,

Paul F.

thanks for the input, I'm starting to think that this may be the way to
go although I do not need a light in the ceiling (small bathroom, light
already on wall over medicine cabinet)

I like the idea of a timer as well, I was already thinking about that.
Would be nice in the morning to set the timer before getting in the
shower, and then if I leave the house shortly after the fan would still
keep running for a while. It appears that Nutone makes one, but I can't
find a picture of it - anyone know if it fits in a standard Decora
switchplate and if not, if there is one available that does?

thanks for the ideas, keep 'em coming...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

on 8/25/2007 12:04 PM Nate Nagel said the following:
Paul Franklin wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:26:20 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:
snip?

Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a
remote inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the
ceiling? It would seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate


In my previous house I installed two Fantec inline fans with lighted
ceiling grilles in two bathrooms. They were more expensive than
standard fan/light units, but unless it was absolutely silent in the
house you couldn't hear them running, yet they moved more air than
most small built-in units. They come in different CFM ratings, so you
choose the appropriate size for your room (guidelines on their web
site). I ended up with one 100 cfm and one 150 cfm.

Since I live in NE Ohio, I used insulated flexible ducting between the
grilles and the fans, and between the fans and the sidewall jacks. I
think the insulated ducting helps quiet them as well, and if you
choose a fan a little larger than you need, the extra resistance of
the flex duct won't matter. It's way easier to install than rigid
ductwork.

I'm with you, I prefer to run out a side wall; less chance of leaks.

I put them both on electronic timers so you can set the fan to run for
a few minutes after using the shower to clear the humidity.

I will definitely go the same route when I do my existing home.

Good Luck,

Paul F.

thanks for the input, I'm starting to think that this may be the way
to go although I do not need a light in the ceiling (small bathroom,
light already on wall over medicine cabinet)

I like the idea of a timer as well, I was already thinking about that.
Would be nice in the morning to set the timer before getting in the
shower, and then if I leave the house shortly after the fan would
still keep running for a while. It appears that Nutone makes one, but
I can't find a picture of it - anyone know if it fits in a standard
Decora switchplate and if not, if there is one available that does?

thanks for the ideas, keep 'em coming...

nate


It's not necessary to change the fan, just the switch.
http://www.nextag.com/bathroom-fan-timer/search-html


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Nate Nagel wrote:

....

I like the idea of a timer as well, I was already thinking about that.
Would be nice in the morning to set the timer before getting in the
shower, and then if I leave the house shortly after the fan would still
keep running for a while. It appears that Nutone makes one, but I can't
find a picture of it - anyone know if it fits in a standard Decora
switchplate and if not, if there is one available that does?

....

Intermatic (as do others) makes a variety of timers that replace wall switches,
both electronic and mechanical. I believe that the electronic ones
may need to have a neutral in the junction box. The mechanical ones
are just simple two wire hookups.
I have replaced a number of fan switches with timers.

I agree, those remote Fantechs are really nice, when I've used those I use
4" PVC to duct them. I'm not a real Panasonic fan, especially not with an 8"
duct, but they are silent


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
beecrofter wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:17 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra Quiet
Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic would be great
as
well

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...




It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the
ceiling,)
but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway (since my mental
plans call for a three gang switch box with light switch, fan switch,
and
GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90 degree bend will do it, would
you
use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3" or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any recommendations
for
a high quality fan unit that would look right in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent,
are
those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling might be
better
as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO will
eventually want to hang some pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:

Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents
are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for
the duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If
you
locate the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and
replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to
provide
for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it
is
grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the
bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in
the
bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently using
a
window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof
is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing
this?

thanks,

nate

--
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- Show quoted text -


Actually the "good" fans that are also quiet use 8" I am very happy
with the panasonic fan I installed recently. It makes the others sound
like a blender.


Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a remote
inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the ceiling? It would
seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate

--
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RBM wrote:
I agree, those remote Fantechs are really nice, when I've used those I use
4" PVC to duct them. I'm not a real Panasonic fan, especially not with an 8"
duct, but they are silent


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

beecrofter wrote:

On Aug 25, 10:17 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:


Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra Quiet
Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic would be great
as
well

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...





It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the
ceiling,)
but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway (since my mental
plans call for a three gang switch box with light switch, fan switch,
and
GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90 degree bend will do it, would
you
use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3" or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any recommendations
for
a high quality fan unit that would look right in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent,
are
those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling might be
better
as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO will
eventually want to hang some pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:


Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath vents
are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic dryer vent for
the duct. The smoother the better, with the least amount of bends. If
you
locate the fan directly over the tub, it'll need GFCI protection

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated ones,
dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans, and
replacing
all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new 14/2 homerun to
provide
for two separate general circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it
is
grounded and doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the
bathroom. While I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in
the
bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently using
a
window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the roof
is
aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with and b) hard to
walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using a dryer vent type
thing through the side wall of the attic. My question is, is this
acceptable by code, and even if so, are there any drawbacks to doing
this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Actually the "good" fans that are also quiet use 8" I am very happy
with the panasonic fan I installed recently. It makes the others sound
like a blender.


Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a remote
inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the ceiling? It would
seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel




OK, so it looks like my options are either a small remote Fantech unit,
or else a Panasonic ceiling unit, either one vented through a 4" duct to
a dryer vent type grille on the side wall of the attic. Pros/cons of
either? Other options I should be looking at? Bathroom is only 5x7 so
I would assume that 4" duct would be fine.

Fantech recommends insulated flex for their units, so that is what I
would probably use. If I used the Panasonic I imagine I could tuck
everything between the ceiling joists so it would end up being covered
by the existing cellulose so I could use smooth metal or PVC.

Looks like my idea of finding a vintage-looking grille just isn't going
to happen so I should suck it up and deal with white plastic.

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Novice here...
Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding
instead of through to the roof?

bonnie

RBM wrote:
Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra
Quiet Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic would
be great as well


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the
ceiling,) but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway
(since my mental plans call for a three gang switch box with light
switch, fan switch, and GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90
degree bend will do it, would you use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3"
or 4"? Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would
be
appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any
recommendations for a high quality fan unit that would look right in
a late-40's house? Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a
louvered
vent, are those still made? Although I am thinking that the ceiling
might be better as there is limited wall space in the bathroom and
I'm sure SWMBO will eventually want to hang some pictures or other
decorative froof. thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:
Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath
vents are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic
dryer vent for the duct. The smoother the better, with the least
amount of bends. If you locate the fan directly over the tub, it'll
need GFCI protection "Nate Nagel" wrote in
message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in my
house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with fan-rated
ones, dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes for fans,
and replacing all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also pulling one new
14/2 homerun to provide for two separate general circuits
(original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is grounded and doesn't need to
be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the bathroom. While I'm at it I
would like to add a ventilation fan in the bathroom to pull out
the condensation while showering (currently using a window mounted
fan) but I am not sure how to vent it. I don't want to use a
conventional stack through the roof as the
roof is aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with
and b) hard to walk on without damage. So I was thinking of using
a dryer vent type thing through the side wall of the attic. My
question is, is this acceptable by code, and even if so, are there
any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel





--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

A word of caution when using plastic vent pipe. Be sure it is not exposed
to sunlight through eave vents or doormer vents. The UV destroys the
plastic [the 4" plastic vents are not UV protected.]

--
Zyp

On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:12:35 -0500, "Bonnie Jean"
wrote:

Novice here...
Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding
instead of through to the roof?

bonnie


Sure can. You just use the same wall vent used for dryer vents. It
has louvers or a flap in it to keep the critters out an prevent the
wind from blowing in.

Paul F.

Nate Nagel wrote:
beecrofter wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:17 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

Any good fan is going to have a 4" duct, I'm partial to the Ultra
Quiet Broan fans. I usually use aluminum vent pipe, but plastic
would be great as well

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...




It'll be outside the tub (was thinking simply dead center in the
ceiling,) but I plan on running everything through a GFCI anyway
(since my mental plans call for a three gang switch box with light
switch, fan switch, and GFCI receptacle.) I suspect that one 90
degree bend will do it, would you use rigid metal duct or PVC? 3"
or 4"?

Also due to the age of the house I think a metal fan housing would
be appropriate, either nickel, chrome, or stainless. any
recommendations for a high quality fan unit that would look right
in a late-40's house?

Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered
vent, are those still made? Although I am thinking that the
ceiling might be better as there is limited wall space in the
bathroom and I'm sure SWMBO will eventually want to hang some
pictures or other decorative froof.

thanks,

nate

RBM wrote:

Unless you have local codes preventing it, that is how most bath
vents are done in my area. Do use something other than plastic
dryer vent for the duct. The smoother the better, with the least
amount of bends. If you locate the fan directly over the tub,
it'll need GFCI protection

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

one of my projects this fall is to update the wiring upstairs in
my house. I plan on replacing all the ceiling boxes with
fan-rated ones, dropping 14/3 switch legs to all the wall boxes
for fans, and replacing all wiring with 14/3 Romex. Also
pulling one new 14/2 homerun to provide for two separate general
circuits (original homerun is 14/2 BX so it is grounded and
doesn't need to be redone) and a 12/2 homerun for the bathroom. While
I'm at it I would like to add a ventilation fan in the
bathroom to pull out the condensation while showering (currently
using a window mounted fan) but I am not sure how to vent it.

I don't want to use a conventional stack through the roof as the
roof is aluminum "shingles" and it appears a) hard to work with
and b) hard to walk on without damage. So I was thinking of
using a dryer vent type thing through the side wall of the
attic. My question is, is this acceptable by code, and even if
so, are there any drawbacks to doing this?

thanks,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Actually the "good" fans that are also quiet use 8" I am very happy
with the panasonic fan I installed recently. It makes the others
sound like a blender.


Have been doing a search, got another idea - what about using a remote
inline fan in the attic, with a simple grille in the ceiling? It
would seem that that would make for quieter operation.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Broan makes a roof or gable mount where the blower and motor are mounted
while the vent is ducted. That way you don't hear the "motor" in the
bathroom.

--
Zyp

On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:26:32 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:
snip

Looks like my idea of finding a vintage-looking grille just isn't going
to happen so I should suck it up and deal with white plastic.

thanks,

nate

Maybe you could use something like this as the grille over the housing
that comes with the Fantec. The plastic grill just snaps in, you
don't have to use it. The backdraft flap is part of the housing, not
the grille.

http://www.crafthome.com/subsidiaryp...nFramePage.htm

(Click on 6" round opera grille after the page opens)

A little pricey, but definitely vintage looking.


Paul F.

Bonnie Jean wrote:
Novice here...
Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding
instead of through to the roof?

bonnie



that was actually my original question, consensus seems to be "yes."

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Aug 25, 9:04 am, Nate Nagel wrote:


Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent,
are those still made?

Absolutely. Among the best are Panasonic's "WhisperWall" model:
http://www.waveplumbing.com/store/in...roducts_id=158
These draw only 18 watts and are 1 sone so you really don't notice
the noise even though they pull 70 CFM. I put one in my 1957 cape to
avoid cutting into the plaster ceiling. It was a simple job, the fan
comes packaged with a very nice outdoor vent and good instructions.
Great improvement over the old unvented bathroom, and it took less
than two hours total including running wire and installing a new timer
switch.

-kiwanda

On Aug 25, 9:04 am, Nate Nagel wrote:


Another option would be a through-the-wall unit with a louvered vent,
are those still made?

Absolutely. Among the best are Panasonic's "WhisperWall" model:
http://www.waveplumbing.com/store/in...roducts_id=158
These draw only 18 watts and are 1 sone so you really don't notice
the noise even though they pull 70 CFM. I put one in my 1957 cape to
avoid cutting into the plaster ceiling. It was a simple job, the fan
comes packaged with a very nice outdoor vent and good instructions.
Great improvement over the old unvented bathroom, and it took less
than two hours total including running wire and installing a new timer
switch.

-kiwanda

On Aug 25, 11:04 am, Nate Nagel wrote:


I like the idea of a timer as well, I was already thinking about that.
It appears that Nutone makes one, but I can't
find a picture of it - anyone know if it fits in a standard Decora
switchplate and if not, if there is one available that does?

Yep-- Fantech makes a great one:
http://www.waveplumbing.com/store/in...oducts_id=3006
I installed one of these and while it's overkill for my fan (it's
rated for 20 amps, my fan is 18 watts) it's the best timer switch I've
ever used. Hit the 30 min button when you enter the shower and forget
it. It's also lighted, so it's easy to see it in the dark and/or tell
how much time is remaining.

It's white and comes with a Decora plate.

-kiwanda

On Aug 25, 2:25 pm, "HP. Blunt" wrote:
Bonnie Jean wrote:
Novice here...
Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding
instead of through to the roof?

Bonnie,

Sure you can, if your code permits it, that's part of what this thread
is about.

Personally, I hate those louvered vents for the same reason birds love
them. It does bring a big grin to my face, when I see birds fly out of them.

The vent supplied with the Panasonic Whisperwall (the through-wall
version) is actually very nice and quite robust steel. Installed
through the wall, the fan uses an 8" duct and the outdoor vent is
about 10" square, with an integral damper and a very heavy screen over
the opening. No way any bird will get in there, and the damper seals
tightly whenever the fan is not running. It's much easier to install
than any ceiling solution, and since the total run is just the
thickness of the wall you won't have any problems with dropoff or
condensation that you'd have with a long attic run.

-kiwanda

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Bonnie Jean wrote:
Novice here...
Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding instead
of through to the roof?

bonnie

that was actually my original question, consensus seems to be "yes."

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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Another option: Vent them out through the soffits. The bathroom fans on my
house are done this way, and it's a nice, clean look.

J.A. Michel wrote:

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

Bonnie Jean wrote:

Novice here...
Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding
instead of through to the roof?

bonnie


that was actually my original question, consensus seems to be "yes."

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


Another option: Vent them out through the soffits. The bathroom fans
on my house are done this way, and it's a nice, clean look.

Believe it or not, I don't have any soffits. Roof ends just at the wall
of the house.

nate

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Can you vent it directly outside through the wall and siding
instead of through to the roof?

Yes but make sure there aren't any "droops" in the exhaust flex line if you
re using that to get from the fan to outside. If there are any sagging
areas, especially in cooler wall/attic/ceiling spaces you run the risk of
condensation forming within the pipe and running down into the sagging area
creating quite a heavy weight of water in the pipe over time