My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.

"ScottO" wrote in message
...
My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

Expo design center (a subsidiary) wants much more here.

It's becoming more common.

"ScottO" wrote

My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

Do they apply the money to your order? I can see why they wouldn't
want to come do your measuring then have you order your cabinets
from somewhere else.

nancy

On Jun 22, 6:27?pm, "ScottO" wrote:
My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.

yeah sad too many windowshoppers.

you can take your measurements to lowes and their kitchen designer
will come up with a nice plan

On Jun 22, 5:27 pm, "ScottO" wrote:
My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.

Just did this. The money is refunded/applied to your order.

On Jun 22, 7:39 pm, Brent Bolin wrote:
On Jun 22, 5:27 pm, "ScottO" wrote:

My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

Just did this. The money is refunded/applied to your order.

Which is pretty standard. I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.

R

As a consumer, I first thought this was unfair.

However, I now see that it is fair to the contractor. It cost him money to
make the estimate or measure.
"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 22, 7:39 pm, Brent Bolin wrote:
On Jun 22, 5:27 pm, "ScottO" wrote:

My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot
wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before.
Is
this common?

Just did this. The money is refunded/applied to your order.

Which is pretty standard. I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 22, 7:39 pm, Brent Bolin wrote:
On Jun 22, 5:27 pm, "ScottO" wrote:

My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot
wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before.
Is
this common?

Just did this. The money is refunded/applied to your order.

Which is pretty standard. I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.

R


So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up front to
get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems like quite
a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just going out
on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for a quote.
It's highway robbery.

Madx wrote:

So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up front to
get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems like quite
a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just going out
on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for a quote.
It's highway robbery.

A bid is for a job, with all the specifications & plans laid out
already. Basically....... a bid sheet

It's absurd to think a real company would perform lay-outs, design,
specifications, and such, just to satisfy your curiosity.

With that logic, why would anyone want to be an architect, and work for
free?

On Jun 22, 8:50 pm, "Madx" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.


So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up front to
get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems like quite
a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just going out
on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for a quote.
It's highway robbery.

Wouldn't it be more like burglary since we're talking about
houses?

You've heard the old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch,
right? Well, it's true. You may not think you're being charged for
that "free" estimate, but you are. The contractor just buries it in
his price somewhere. I prefer to be more upfront about it.

It requires effort to prepare an estimate. There's the site visit,
discussing the customers wants and needs, working up the estimate
itself, then sitting down with the customer to review the estimate and
point out where there are areas where money could be saved, or areas
where more money will be required to do it right. In short -
educating the customer.

Where do you think that time comes from? I have no more hours in my
week than you do. I can't just ignore hours anymore than your boss
will ignore hours if you decide to skip work. From your comment, it's
obvious that you're not the boss or I wouldn't need to explain this
stuff to you. An estimate and presentation might take three hours or
more. What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of money to
charge for that time?

Since you brought up the 3-5 bids, where does that come from? Do you
think that somehow gives you a better project or saves you money? It
doesn't work that way. Most people that get more than a couple or
three bids are simply price shopping. They think that all contractors
are interchangeable and will pick the lowest bid. My work is far
above the norm and so are my prices. You and I would never get past
the initial phone call. I screen potential customers at least as
carefully as the owner screens me. If someone is price shopping,
there are other contractors who are eager to race each other to the
bottom of the barrel. I'm not. I've never been the low bid, and if I
was informed I was, besides being shocked, I'd assume I'd missed
something and go racing to double-check my estimate.

When you hear about a remodeling project where there were horrendous
cost overruns, it's usually due to an owner price shopping, taking the
lowest bid and hoping for the best, or because an owner doesn't
understand the correlation between what they'd like done and what has
to be done. Both scenarios are recipes for disaster.

R

While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must be
the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work, you
are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to show
their wares is unbelievable. I suppose when you go car shopping, you just
go and buy from the first dealer you stop at. Of course not! You shop
around to find the best price AND service. I'm not saying I don't believe
that your time is valuable it's just the nature of the beast and you decided
to go into this line of work so you must deal with the occasional window
shopper. By far the best recommendation is word of mouth and no complaints
filed against you at the BBB. I have no reason to believe that you don't do
quality work but I'm sure the scammer ready to rip me off would say his work
is top notch too. Using your logic, if he's more expensive, it must be
true!



"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 22, 8:50 pm, "Madx" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.


So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up front
to
get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems like
quite
a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just going
out
on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for a
quote.
It's highway robbery.

Wouldn't it be more like burglary since we're talking about
houses?

You've heard the old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch,
right? Well, it's true. You may not think you're being charged for
that "free" estimate, but you are. The contractor just buries it in
his price somewhere. I prefer to be more upfront about it.

It requires effort to prepare an estimate. There's the site visit,
discussing the customers wants and needs, working up the estimate
itself, then sitting down with the customer to review the estimate and
point out where there are areas where money could be saved, or areas
where more money will be required to do it right. In short -
educating the customer.

Where do you think that time comes from? I have no more hours in my
week than you do. I can't just ignore hours anymore than your boss
will ignore hours if you decide to skip work. From your comment, it's
obvious that you're not the boss or I wouldn't need to explain this
stuff to you. An estimate and presentation might take three hours or
more. What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of money to
charge for that time?

Since you brought up the 3-5 bids, where does that come from? Do you
think that somehow gives you a better project or saves you money? It
doesn't work that way. Most people that get more than a couple or
three bids are simply price shopping. They think that all contractors
are interchangeable and will pick the lowest bid. My work is far
above the norm and so are my prices. You and I would never get past
the initial phone call. I screen potential customers at least as
carefully as the owner screens me. If someone is price shopping,
there are other contractors who are eager to race each other to the
bottom of the barrel. I'm not. I've never been the low bid, and if I
was informed I was, besides being shocked, I'd assume I'd missed
something and go racing to double-check my estimate.

When you hear about a remodeling project where there were horrendous
cost overruns, it's usually due to an owner price shopping, taking the
lowest bid and hoping for the best, or because an owner doesn't
understand the correlation between what they'd like done and what has
to be done. Both scenarios are recipes for disaster.

R

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:58:51 -0400, "Scott"
wrote:

While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must be
the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work, you
are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to show
their wares is unbelievable. I suppose when you go car shopping, you just
go and buy from the first dealer you stop at. Of course not! You shop
around to find the best price AND service. I'm not saying I don't believe
that your time is valuable it's just the nature of the beast and you decided
to go into this line of work so you must deal with the occasional window
shopper. By far the best recommendation is word of mouth and no complaints
filed against you at the BBB. I have no reason to believe that you don't do
quality work but I'm sure the scammer ready to rip me off would say his work
is top notch too. Using your logic, if he's more expensive, it must be
true!

I don't think he said that. IN fact he didn't say how to find a good
contractor.

In this case, it seems to me that no one would have to pay 300 to 500
for 3 to 5 estimates.

I've never done this, but are these 100 dollar estimates in writing,
with a drawing, showing what size cabinets are used?

So you pay for one, and you get one, and then you take the drawing to
the other guys, and get an estimate from them for the same size, type,
etc, cabinets. They don't have to come to your house, they don't have
to measure. How much, if anything, do they charge for that?

Admittedly if you hire one of the ones who have never been to the
house, I think they will all insist on measuring themselves, after the
contract is signed**. How much would they imbed in the contract for
doing so? Whatever, you'll be paying no more than 100 dollars extra
for the first guy to come out.

**Although maybe not if the customer a release that he measured and
he's accurate, and will pay extra expenses. Surely if I'm just
replacing the cabinets I have with identically sized cabinets, I can
measure the size myself. Rico, would you trust me to do that, if I
signed a release too?

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 22, 8:50 pm, "Madx" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.


So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up front
to
get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems like
quite
a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just going
out
on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for a
quote.
It's highway robbery.

Wouldn't it be more like burglary since we're talking about
houses?

You've heard the old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch,
right? Well, it's true. You may not think you're being charged for
that "free" estimate, but you are. The contractor just buries it in
his price somewhere. I prefer to be more upfront about it.

It requires effort to prepare an estimate. There's the site visit,
discussing the customers wants and needs, working up the estimate
itself, then sitting down with the customer to review the estimate and
point out where there are areas where money could be saved, or areas
where more money will be required to do it right. In short -
educating the customer.

Where do you think that time comes from? I have no more hours in my
week than you do. I can't just ignore hours anymore than your boss
will ignore hours if you decide to skip work. From your comment, it's
obvious that you're not the boss or I wouldn't need to explain this
stuff to you. An estimate and presentation might take three hours or
more. What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of money to
charge for that time?

Since you brought up the 3-5 bids, where does that come from? Do you
think that somehow gives you a better project or saves you money? It
doesn't work that way. Most people that get more than a couple or
three bids are simply price shopping. They think that all contractors
are interchangeable and will pick the lowest bid. My work is far
above the norm and so are my prices. You and I would never get past
the initial phone call. I screen potential customers at least as
carefully as the owner screens me. If someone is price shopping,
there are other contractors who are eager to race each other to the
bottom of the barrel. I'm not. I've never been the low bid, and if I
was informed I was, besides being shocked, I'd assume I'd missed
something and go racing to double-check my estimate.

When you hear about a remodeling project where there were horrendous
cost overruns, it's usually due to an owner price shopping, taking the
lowest bid and hoping for the best, or because an owner doesn't
understand the correlation between what they'd like done and what has
to be done. Both scenarios are recipes for disaster.

R

On Jun 22, 10:58 pm, "Scott" wrote:
While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must be
the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work, you
are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to show
their wares is unbelievable. I suppose when you go car shopping, you just
go and buy from the first dealer you stop at. Of course not! You shop
around to find the best price AND service. I'm not saying I don't believe
that your time is valuable it's just the nature of the beast and you decided
to go into this line of work so you must deal with the occasional window
shopper. By far the best recommendation is word of mouth and no complaints
filed against you at the BBB. I have no reason to believe that you don't do
quality work but I'm sure the scammer ready to rip me off would say his work
is top notch too. Using your logic, if he's more expensive, it must be
true!

Wow, Scott. I have absolutely no idea where you came up with any of
that. I never said that people shouldn't get bids and I never said
that someone who bids more is a better provider (whatever that is). I
also didn't say that more expensive equals better, although there is a
definite correlation between cheap being shoddy. Read what I wrote
again. Don't read into it, just read it.

A car is a commodity. You'll get the exact same car from any dealer.
The work I do is not a commodity. I am the exclusive worldwide
distributor of me and my work. Who else is supposed to determine how
I run my business? You? Some supposed competitor contractor?

I am also not a salesman. You are, of course, absolutely right that
word of mouth is the most effective advertising. I have a lot of
experience and a lot of work that speaks volumes without me saying a
word. That's why I haven't done any advertising in fifteen years.
I'm not trying to grow into some huge company where I'll be counting
beans and on the phone all day. I've found my niche, I've very happy
with it and see no reason to change.

Since I am not a salesman and have no need to sell myself or my work I
really don't have to deal with window shoppers. I'm sure that you'd
agree that the sooner that two people come to an understanding the
better. I am very clear from the beginning about everything I do.

R

"mm" wrote

I've never done this, but are these 100 dollar estimates in writing,
with a drawing, showing what size cabinets are used?

Exactly what I have been thinking. The original question concerned
paying Home Depot to send someone to your house to measure. I
don't even know if they tell you how much the job will be. Sounds
like they are measuring and doing a CAD layout for you. What's to
stop you from taking that to some other supplier of cabinets? Nothing.

I think that the bidding to do the job should be separated from the
purchase of the cabinets in this discussion. No where has anyone said
that Home Depot is going to do the job, just measuring to order the
cabinets.

So you pay for one, and you get one, and then you take the drawing to
the other guys, and get an estimate from them for the same size, type,
etc, cabinets. They don't have to come to your house, they don't have
to measure. How much, if anything, do they charge for that?

Exactly.

**Although maybe not if the customer a release that he measured and
he's accurate, and will pay extra expenses. Surely if I'm just
replacing the cabinets I have with identically sized cabinets, I can
measure the size myself. Rico, would you trust me to do that, if I
signed a release too?

I brought in my kitchen measurements to the store (Channel Lumber). The
guy put the specifics into the computer and laid things out as I asked.
After we hammered out a few changes, he ordered the cabinets.
I don't think they would have been responsible if I messed up, and
believe me, it was an adventure due to a couple of unforseen things.

nancy

On Jun 22, 11:30 pm, mm wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:58:51 -0400, "Scott"

wrote:
While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must be
the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work, you
are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to show
their wares is unbelievable. I suppose when you go car shopping, you just
go and buy from the first dealer you stop at. Of course not! You shop
around to find the best price AND service. I'm not saying I don't believe
that your time is valuable it's just the nature of the beast and you decided
to go into this line of work so you must deal with the occasional window
shopper. By far the best recommendation is word of mouth and no complaints
filed against you at the BBB. I have no reason to believe that you don't do
quality work but I'm sure the scammer ready to rip me off would say his work
is top notch too. Using your logic, if he's more expensive, it must be
true!

I don't think he said that. IN fact he didn't say how to find a good
contractor.

In this case, it seems to me that no one would have to pay 300 to 500
for 3 to 5 estimates.

I've never done this, but are these 100 dollar estimates in writing,
with a drawing, showing what size cabinets are used?

So you pay for one, and you get one, and then you take the drawing to
the other guys, and get an estimate from them for the same size, type,
etc, cabinets. They don't have to come to your house, they don't have
to measure. How much, if anything, do they charge for that?

Admittedly if you hire one of the ones who have never been to the
house, I think they will all insist on measuring themselves, after the
contract is signed**. How much would they imbed in the contract for
doing so? Whatever, you'll be paying no more than 100 dollars extra
for the first guy to come out.

**Although maybe not if the customer a release that he measured and
he's accurate, and will pay extra expenses. Surely if I'm just
replacing the cabinets I have with identically sized cabinets, I can
measure the size myself. Rico, would you trust me to do that, if I
signed a release too?

Nope. There's no up side to that. I don't know who the other guy is
and whether he's competent or not. The odds that I'd create the same
kitchen layout are entirely non-existent.

A guy I used to work with told me a story about a friend of his that
had a carpet business. The guy got sick of having the exact scenario
you described happen to him. Someone would take his written estimate,
with room measurements, and shop it around. In other words this guy
was doing the estimating work and people were taking advantage of
him. Know how he fixed that? He started deducting 2' from every
dimension on the written estimate. He actually had an owner call him
up screaming that his measurements were wrong! The owner had given it
to some other guy who never bothered checking the measurements,
ordered the carpet, went to install it and...oops!

R

"Scott" wrote in message
...
While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must
be the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work,
you are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to
show their wares is unbelievable.


I don't think you understand. There are some contractors that fall into a
different territory altogether. My stepfather was one. He had all the work
he could handle and never did any advertising or selling. People sought him
out and were willing to pay what he asked. There was no price negotiation.
He gave a price and that is what people paid and in all the years of doing
that, I don't recall a single job that was turned down because he was "high
priced". They were willing to pay for his considerable skills. They were
not out getting multiple bids because they knew what they wanted and they
knew who they wanted to do the work. He chose who he wanted to work for and
turned away a lot of work and maintained a 6 to 12 month backlog.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 22, 11:30 pm, mm wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:58:51 -0400, "Scott"

(snipped)

A guy I used to work with told me a story about a friend of his that
had a carpet business. The guy got sick of having the exact scenario
you described happen to him. Someone would take his written estimate,
with room measurements, and shop it around. In other words this guy
was doing the estimating work and people were taking advantage of
him. Know how he fixed that? He started deducting 2' from every
dimension on the written estimate. He actually had an owner call him
up screaming that his measurements were wrong! The owner had given it
to some other guy who never bothered checking the measurements,
ordered the carpet, went to install it and...oops!

R

20 years ago, designed and sold kitchen remodels for Sears. They advertised
free estimates and design. So most people would call us to come out,
measure, and design the kitchen remodel. They expected drawings which they
then took to Home Depot to order the cabinets. We got in the habit of
making up a separate drawing for them that had no cabinet sizes on it and
usually had one or more cabinets that weren't to scale so the Home Depot
couldn't take off our drawings. On the other hand, I recently designed a
kitchen remodel for my mother's basement kitchen. Simple, two walls, open
ended so cabinets didn't have to fit within end walls. I tried to order
cabinets from Home Depot and they flat out refused to order any cabinets
until I had their man come out and measure. I tried to explain my
credentials and the simplicity of the job but no way. It was their way or
hit the road. Menard's had no problem with my measurements. Home Depot
wouldn't order any cabinets even if I gave them the cabinet size numbers and
said "Order It". They would however let me buy the in stock one design
finished or unfinished cabinets they carried.

Tom G

On Jun 23, 12:22 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message

...

While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must
be the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work,
you are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to
show their wares is unbelievable.

I don't think you understand. There are some contractors that fall into a
different territory altogether. My stepfather was one. He had all the work
he could handle and never did any advertising or selling. People sought him
out and were willing to pay what he asked. There was no price negotiation.
He gave a price and that is what people paid and in all the years of doing
that, I don't recall a single job that was turned down because he was "high
priced". They were willing to pay for his considerable skills. They were
not out getting multiple bids because they knew what they wanted and they
knew who they wanted to do the work. He chose who he wanted to work for and
turned away a lot of work and maintained a 6 to 12 month backlog.

When businesses are bought and sold, there is often substantial
compensation for "goodwill". Your stepfather had it. It's insurance
against the lean times, and gravy in the fat times. It doesn't come
free, it has to be earned. It can only be earned by building a solid
reputation based on quality work, honesty and sound business
practices. It can't be deposited in a bank, but is often more
valuable than cash. It opens doors, alleviates tension and is good
for the health of all involved. Unfortunately it can't be bottled -
but maybe that's a good thing.

R

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:19:35 -0700, RicodJour
wrote:



**Although maybe not if the customer a release that he measured and
he's accurate, and will pay extra expenses. Surely if I'm just
replacing the cabinets I have with identically sized cabinets, I can
measure the size myself. Rico, would you trust me to do that, if I
signed a release too?

Nope. There's no up side to that. I don't know who the other guy is
and whether he's competent or not. The odds that I'd create the same
kitchen layout are entirely non-existent.

In this case, I was just replacing the cabinets with the exact same
sizes, but I don't blame you for saying no. I'm glad I asked and I'll
assume everyone would tell me no.

It would still be only two estimating trips, one for the first guy,
and one for you or whoever was actually going to do the job.

A guy I used to work with told me a story about a friend of his that
had a carpet business. The guy got sick of having the exact scenario
you described happen to him. Someone would take his written estimate,
with room measurements, and shop it around. In other words this guy
was doing the estimating work and people were taking advantage of
him. Know how he fixed that? He started deducting 2' from every
dimension on the written estimate.

If he charged 100 dollars, or even 30 dollars for the estimate, he
shouldn't have done that. But if it was free, and if the customer
said he was going to get the job, ok. If it's in the middle
somewhere, I can certainly see why he wanted to do it,....

Not the same thing at all, but when I was just a handy man, a friend
of a friend hired me to put in a bit of wiring. She made it clear, no
connecting to the fuse box in the basement of the apartment building
(she owned one apartment that she wanted to rent.) Before she'd paid
me everything, she started talking about my doing the run to the
basement and connecting to the fuse box. I could have discussed it
with her and said to her, "Just finish paying me for what I've done",
but I was suspicious, so I took money to buy materials for the second
part, that matched the amount she owed me for the first part, and then
called and told her I was done. She took it pretty well, didn't yell
at me or say anything bad to me. She might have said something to my
friend, but nothing terrible, and he's far sneakier on his nice days
than I am on my sneaky days, so he didn't think worse of me. (I
finally got sick of him and his sneaky and selfish ways.)

He actually had an owner call him
up screaming that his measurements were wrong! The owner had given it
to some other guy who never bothered checking the measurements,
ordered the carpet, went to install it and...oops!

Well, I'm sending a copy of this to an old girlfriend of mine, who
might, even with the best of intenetions get an estimate from someone
and later decide to go with someone else. She's also smart enough to
probably double check the measurements, bur I'm reminding her and
myself to definitely do so.

In fact even if there is no hanky-panky going on, it wouldn't hurt to
double-check even a pro's meausurements. One doesn't want most of the
hosue done only to find out there is no more of that color for sale,
even if the carpet guy was going to pay for it.

R

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 05:18:36 GMT, "Tom G"
wrote:



20 years ago, designed and sold kitchen remodels for Sears. They advertised
free estimates and design. So most people would call us to come out,
measure, and design the kitchen remodel. They expected drawings which they
then took to Home Depot to order the cabinets. We got in the habit of
making up a separate drawing for them that had no cabinet sizes on it and
usually had one or more cabinets that weren't to scale so the Home Depot
couldn't take off our drawings.

That's a good idea and frankly, it's better than deducting two inches
from each carpet measurment.

On the other hand, I recently designed a
kitchen remodel for my mother's basement kitchen. Simple, two walls, open
ended so cabinets didn't have to fit within end walls. I tried to order
cabinets from Home Depot and they flat out refused to order any cabinets
until I had their man come out and measure. I tried to explain my
credentials and the simplicity of the job but no way. It was their way or
hit the road. Menard's had no problem with my measurements. Home Depot
wouldn't order any cabinets even if I gave them the cabinet size numbers and
said "Order It". They would however let me buy the in stock one design
finished or unfinished cabinets they carried.

You know who caused this, of course? Home owner prima donnas and
whiners who measured wrong and then weren't man enough to pay for
their own mistakes.

Hmmm. Pot, kettle, black. I did that once myself. I was 24, and I
measured for my mother's 2 or 3 book shelves and told the lumber yard
a too short length, and found the mistake after they cut, and I let
them cut them again without my paying for the first boards. Which
they I'm sure had to sell at a loss.

I was just visiting from out of town and didn't have a saw to cut them
with. I've regretted this ever since, and I would just buy all 4 or 6
shelves now, and take the short ones home with me when I left.

Tom G

ScottO wrote:
My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.


That is the figure here - HD contracts out for a measuring service. As
it turned out, we decided not to go with HD - we thought the $100 was
forfeitied, so didn't even bother to ask. The kitchen planner flagged
us down when we were in the store for something else so's she could give
us our money back!

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:27:39 -0700, "ScottO"
wrote:

My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.


Damn, I'm in th wrong business. A $5 tape measure and a couple
gallons of gas and an hour of my time for $100. Heck I could make up
to $1000 a day.....

I'd tell HD that you have your own ruler and they can shove it !!!

On Jun 23, 12:58 am, "Scott" wrote:
While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must be
the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work, you
are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to show
their wares is unbelievable. I suppose when you go car shopping, you just
go and buy from the first dealer you stop at. Of course not! You shop
around to find the best price AND service. I'm not saying I don't believe
that your time is valuable it's just the nature of the beast and you decided
to go into this line of work so you must deal with the occasional window
shopper. By far the best recommendation is word of mouth and no complaints
filed against you at the BBB. I have no reason to believe that you don't do
quality work but I'm sure the scammer ready to rip me off would say his work
is top notch too. Using your logic, if he's more expensive, it must be
true!

Sounds as though friend hasn't decided whether they want to buy some
cabinet boxes to mount in their kitchen or a well designed thought-out
new kichen?
So; to do it 'on the cheap':
Have your friend take measurements; get hold of all the brochures and
go out and buy the cabinets etc.
Have units delivered (or bring them home in the back of your pickup
truck), check for damage, unpack and dispose of packing materials;
promptly return/replace anything not up to par with an identical item.
Install them him/her self. Check the actual units against measurements/
specification. Adapt.
Having or acquiring the right tools for the work; proper screws wall
fasteners, back splash etc. etc. etc. .
Design, draw up and have made any 'special' items, such as end or
corner cabinets. (Or make or modify themselves from a 'standard' unit.
Don't dispose of anything, yet; they may need that piece of leftover
matching panelling!.
Decide whether to reuse existing appliances and whether any wiring/
plumbing alterations will be needed. Do those alterations or contract
them out.
Cope with any of the inevitable small difficulties that will crop up
as installation proceeds. We had to slightly alter one wall; worked
out all right though, actually gave extra depth for an electrical
panel.
Not too hard to do, provided it is a dead simple job. We did just that
almost 40 years ago. Two opposing 8 foot counters, two upper and two
lower cabinets, plus appliances and a later added dishwasher (which
now needs replacement!).
Kitchen still works fine although after bringing up a family and doing
some catering through it for some 30+ years it's looking a bit worn
now!
I'd tackle it again, using standard units as far as possible although
every building is a little different, now in my mid 70s! But being now
retired got lots of time; this time! And time worth money; eh?

"RicodJour" wrote in message
When businesses are bought and sold, there is often substantial
compensation for "goodwill". Your stepfather had it. It's insurance
against the lean times, and gravy in the fat times. It doesn't come
free, it has to be earned. It can only be earned by building a solid
reputation based on quality work, honesty and sound business
practices. It can't be deposited in a bank, but is often more
valuable than cash. It opens doors, alleviates tension and is good
for the health of all involved. Unfortunately it can't be bottled -
but maybe that's a good thing.

R


It cannot be handed down either. I don't have his skills. I used to work
with him on occasion, but could never do the fine work he was capable of.
Nor did I study architecture in Vienna as he did. Even if I did, getting
it translated from the brain to the hands is not the same.

On Jun 23, 2:38 am, mm wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:19:35 -0700, RicodJour

**Although maybe not if the customer a release that he measured and
he's accurate, and will pay extra expenses. Surely if I'm just
replacing the cabinets I have with identically sized cabinets, I can
measure the size myself. Rico, would you trust me to do that, if I
signed a release too?

Nope. There's no up side to that. I don't know who the other guy is
and whether he's competent or not. The odds that I'd create the same
kitchen layout are entirely non-existent.

In this case, I was just replacing the cabinets with the exact same
sizes, but I don't blame you for saying no. I'm glad I asked and I'll
assume everyone would tell me no.

I can't speak for anyone else. I'm sure you'd find people that would
take your gladly take your guarantee (more on this later).

Whether the kitchen was a direct replacement or not, whether the
layout was done yesterday or forty years ago, the odds are great that
it could be improved upon.

It would still be only two estimating trips, one for the first guy,
and one for you or whoever was actually going to do the job.


A guy I used to work with told me a story about a friend of his that
had a carpet business. The guy got sick of having the exact scenario
you described happen to him. Someone would take his written estimate,
with room measurements, and shop it around. In other words this guy
was doing the estimating work and people were taking advantage of
him. Know how he fixed that? He started deducting 2' from every
dimension on the written estimate.

If he charged 100 dollars, or even 30 dollars for the estimate, he
shouldn't have done that. But if it was free, and if the customer
said he was going to get the job, ok. If it's in the middle
somewhere, I can certainly see why he wanted to do it,....

I don't know of any carpet installer, painter or fairly
"straightforward" trade that charges for estimates. There was an
architect I knew - didn't really like his work or his ways - that
would visit a client for the first time, then send them a contract in
the mail. If the owner didn't sign it without any questions, he
wouldn't answer their phone calls. It takes all types.

Not the same thing at all, but when I was just a handy man, a friend
of a friend hired me to put in a bit of wiring. She made it clear, no
connecting to the fuse box in the basement of the apartment building
(she owned one apartment that she wanted to rent.) Before she'd paid
me everything, she started talking about my doing the run to the
basement and connecting to the fuse box. I could have discussed it
with her and said to her, "Just finish paying me for what I've done",
but I was suspicious, so I took money to buy materials for the second
part, that matched the amount she owed me for the first part, and then
called and told her I was done. She took it pretty well, didn't yell
at me or say anything bad to me. She might have said something to my
friend, but nothing terrible, and he's far sneakier on his nice days
than I am on my sneaky days, so he didn't think worse of me. (I
finally got sick of him and his sneaky and selfish ways.)

Effective, but I doubt either of you were happy with the way it turned
out.

He actually had an owner call him
up screaming that his measurements were wrong! The owner had given it
to some other guy who never bothered checking the measurements,
ordered the carpet, went to install it and...oops!

Well, I'm sending a copy of this to an old girlfriend of mine, who
might, even with the best of intenetions get an estimate from someone
and later decide to go with someone else. She's also smart enough to
probably double check the measurements, bur I'm reminding her and
myself to definitely do so.

In fact even if there is no hanky-panky going on, it wouldn't hurt to
double-check even a pro's meausurements. One doesn't want most of the
hosue done only to find out there is no more of that color for sale,
even if the carpet guy was going to pay for it.

Guaranteed measurements are dangerous. If you guarantee a measurement
to the wrong guy, and the measurements turn out to have some problems,
the guy will take you to the cleaners. It's also dangerous for the
contractor. An error in the measurement means lost time. The owner
might just want to pay for the replacement cabinet, and ignore the
contractor's lost time. Obviously the contractor would have other
ideas.

Construction is all about risk. If you are not thoroughly and
intimately familiar with construction, and all of the potential
pitfalls, you'd be nuts to willingly assume more risk to get a
slightly better price.

R

On Jun 23, 9:24 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

It cannot be handed down either. I don't have his skills. I used to work
with him on occasion, but could never do the fine work he was capable of.
Nor did I study architecture in Vienna as he did. Even if I did, getting
it translated from the brain to the hands is not the same.

Sounds like an interesting guy. Post some pictures of his work. I'd
love to see some.

R

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:27:39 -0700, "ScottO"
wrote:

My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.


Damn, I'm in th wrong business.

Or don't have much of an idea what it takes to operate a business.


A $5 tape measure and a couple
gallons of gas and an hour of my time for $100. Heck I could make up
to $1000 a day.....

I'd tell HD that you have your own ruler and they can shove it !!!

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote

I've never done this, but are these 100 dollar estimates in writing,
with a drawing, showing what size cabinets are used?

Exactly what I have been thinking. The original question concerned
paying Home Depot to send someone to your house to measure. I
don't even know if they tell you how much the job will be. Sounds
like they are measuring and doing a CAD layout for you. What's to
stop you from taking that to some other supplier of cabinets? Nothing.

I think that the bidding to do the job should be separated from the
purchase of the cabinets in this discussion. No where has anyone said
that Home Depot is going to do the job, just measuring to order the
cabinets.

So you pay for one, and you get one, and then you take the drawing to
the other guys, and get an estimate from them for the same size, type,
etc, cabinets. They don't have to come to your house, they don't have
to measure. How much, if anything, do they charge for that?

Exactly.

**Although maybe not if the customer a release that he measured and
he's accurate, and will pay extra expenses. Surely if I'm just
replacing the cabinets I have with identically sized cabinets, I can
measure the size myself. Rico, would you trust me to do that, if I
signed a release too?

I brought in my kitchen measurements to the store (Channel Lumber). The
guy put the specifics into the computer and laid things out as I asked.
After we hammered out a few changes, he ordered the cabinets.
I don't think they would have been responsible if I messed up, and
believe me, it was an adventure due to a couple of unforseen things.

nancy



My husband just reminded me we had to pay home depot $100 to measure for
laminate flooring we were going to do. They sent out some one with a tape
measure and a scratch pad (no cad drawing) The resulting number of square
feet was off by 150. I remeasured and a future contractor measured to
confirm. The number of square feet was just recorded in the order
department. We did not receive a materials list or anything professional.
As for the kitchen design we took our own measurements in and they were used
to give us a free cabinet layout.

That's the basis of why I would not pay $100 for someone to measure or write
up a proposal. It's part of the cost of doing business as a contractor in
hopes of getting the job.

In article . com,
RicodJour wrote:
A guy I used to work with told me a story about a friend of his that
had a carpet business. The guy got sick of having the exact scenario
you described happen to him. Someone would take his written estimate,
with room measurements, and shop it around. In other words this guy
was doing the estimating work and people were taking advantage of
him. Know how he fixed that? He started deducting 2' from every
dimension on the written estimate. He actually had an owner call him
up screaming that his measurements were wrong! The owner had given it
to some other guy who never bothered checking the measurements,
ordered the carpet, went to install it and...oops!

There are a couple of problems with that. First, if I got back the
written estimate from the carpet guy and it said my living room is 2'
shorter than it really is, I'd notice, and eliminate that carpet guy
from consideration, because I'd assume he is simply not competent to use
a measure, and so would not want him anywhere near my house.

Second, in this age of the internet, I'd probably blog about him, by
name, so that other people looking for a carpet guy would have a chance
of finding out that he can't even measure right.

Producing incorrect work is generally a bad thing to do, regardless of
whether it is on accident (because of incompetence) or on purpose (as
part of some sort of plan to keep people from using your work without
paying), because to the consumer of your work, the two cases are usually
indistinguishable.


--
--Tim Smith

It is foolish to think a homeowner shouldnt compare prices. Unless
the estimate is in the range I was thinking the job should cost then
I will get a couple estimates.
For instance the chimney cap blew off my chimney. On most houses I'd
have ladder up and deal with it. However my tudor type home has a
Very high chimney (cant reach top even from roof. Had a couple people
come out- #1 "You need new cap- starts at $175". I said I'll get back
to you. #2 Local Co. in town says that normally costs $40 or so but
never shows. #3 comes out says "$50 we can do it now" I said "Do
it!!" For a really large job estimates help determine a fair price.
If three guys are about the same money then its up to refenreces and
reputaion. Hi pricers are usually ripoffs and lowballers may be shady

On Jun 22, 10:11 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:50 pm, "Madx" wrote:

"RicodJour" wrote in message

I started charging for estimates a long
time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down on
the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your time,
and you expect them to do the same.

So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up front to
get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems like quite
a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just going out
on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for a quote.
It's highway robbery.

Wouldn't it be more like burglary since we're talking about
houses?

You've heard the old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch,
right? Well, it's true. You may not think you're being charged for
that "free" estimate, but you are. The contractor just buries it in
his price somewhere. I prefer to be more upfront about it.

It requires effort to prepare an estimate. There's the site visit,
discussing the customers wants and needs, working up the estimate
itself, then sitting down with the customer to review the estimate and
point out where there are areas where money could be saved, or areas
where more money will be required to do it right. In short -
educating the customer.

Where do you think that time comes from? I have no more hours in my
week than you do. I can't just ignore hours anymore than your boss
will ignore hours if you decide to skip work. From your comment, it's
obvious that you're not the boss or I wouldn't need to explain this
stuff to you. An estimate and presentation might take three hours or
more. What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of money to
charge for that time?

Since you brought up the 3-5 bids, where does that come from? Do you
think that somehow gives you a better project or saves you money? It
doesn't work that way. Most people that get more than a couple or
three bids are simply price shopping. They think that all contractors
are interchangeable and will pick the lowest bid. My work is far
above the norm and so are my prices. You and I would never get past
the initial phone call. I screen potential customers at least as
carefully as the owner screens me. If someone is price shopping,
there are other contractors who are eager to race each other to the
bottom of the barrel. I'm not. I've never been the low bid, and if I
was informed I was, besides being shocked, I'd assume I'd missed
something and go racing to double-check my estimate.

When you hear about a remodeling project where there were horrendous
cost overruns, it's usually due to an owner price shopping, taking the
lowest bid and hoping for the best, or because an owner doesn't
understand the correlation between what they'd like done and what has
to be done. Both scenarios are recipes for disaster.

R

wrote in message
#3 comes out says "$50 we can do it now" I said "Do
it!!" For a really large job estimates help determine a fair price.
If three guys are about the same money then its up to refenreces and
reputaion.

Since a decent stainless steel cap cost almost that much, it is a good deal.
You did get stainless didn't you? I found out abut rusting caps the hard
way with the first one.

On Jun 23, 11:13 am, wrote:
It is foolish to think a homeowner shouldnt compare prices. Unless
the estimate is in the range I was thinking the job should cost then
I will get a couple estimates.

I wrote, "Most people that get more than a couple or three bids are
simply price shopping. They think that all contractors are
interchangeable and will pick the lowest bid."

How do you construe that to mean, "Don't get bids?"

BTW, I wouldn't take a ladder off a truck for $40, much less go up on
a roof and install something. Maybe you're thinking about a handyman
working out of his 1987 Econoline or Town & Country?

R

I didn't mean this to be a personal attack on you so I apologize if it
seemed that way. I was simply trying to point out some difference of
opinions we apparently have.

Let me explain;
Your statement "Since you brought up the 3-5 bids, where does that come
from? Do you think that somehow gives you a better project or saves you
money? It doesn't work that way." leads me to believe that you think a
customer shouldn't shop around. (and BTW, if you look up provider in any
dictionary, you'll find it means something to the effect of someone that
provides a service ;-). You also said "My work is far above the norm and so
are my prices." which is where I inferred that you meant just by spending
more, your customers will get more and that, I will admit and apologize for,
was probably reading too much into your words.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my analogy between you and a car salesman. For
example, building an addition onto a house can be compared to buying a car.
Just because you're looking for a four door compact with good gas mileage
doesn't mean that a Chevy Colbalt is the same as a Toyota Corolla or Honda
Civic. Sure they both have four wheels and meet your other requirements but
they differ greatly in many areas such as quality, price, customer service
from the dealership, etc. etc. Just as adding a family room onto a house
adds space for living, not everyone that can swing a hammer or cut a board
will build it the same way. But either way, and I don't mean any offense,
to think that you are not (or were at one time when you were still building
your reputation) a salesman is... well.... foolish. You provide a service
and based upon what you said, a quality one, but you still have to sell it
to the customer or are we to believe that every one of your jobs (again,
even when you just started out) are asked for with blind trust from the home
owner that you wouldn't rip them off. I doubt it. I bet you had to "sell"
it to them by getting them to believe that you would do it in a quality
manner.

One area that I whole-heartedly to agree with most taking part in this
thread, providing detailed drawings and plans IS providing a service that
should be compensated for. But just to receive a bid for the job, which is
what I understood the OP to be talking about, is larceny, burglary, thievery
or whatever else you'd like to call it.

Again, I'm sorry if this looked to be a personal attack, it really wasn't
meant as such. It's just unfortunate that the world we live in today is
full or scoundrels and thieves. But, for those of us who don't hangout at
the local lumber yard, how else are we to know we're not being ripped off if
we don't shop and ask around.

Scott

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 22, 10:58 pm, "Scott" wrote:
While I appreciate your comments, to suggest that consumers shouldn't
shop
around is ludicrous. Also, to suggest that the person who bids more must
be
the better provider is just as bad. As a person soliciting for work, you
are a salesman. To suggest that all sales people should get paid to show
their wares is unbelievable. I suppose when you go car shopping, you
just
go and buy from the first dealer you stop at. Of course not! You shop
around to find the best price AND service. I'm not saying I don't
believe
that your time is valuable it's just the nature of the beast and you
decided
to go into this line of work so you must deal with the occasional window
shopper. By far the best recommendation is word of mouth and no
complaints
filed against you at the BBB. I have no reason to believe that you don't
do
quality work but I'm sure the scammer ready to rip me off would say his
work
is top notch too. Using your logic, if he's more expensive, it must be
true!

Wow, Scott. I have absolutely no idea where you came up with any of
that. I never said that people shouldn't get bids and I never said
that someone who bids more is a better provider (whatever that is). I
also didn't say that more expensive equals better, although there is a
definite correlation between cheap being shoddy. Read what I wrote
again. Don't read into it, just read it.

A car is a commodity. You'll get the exact same car from any dealer.
The work I do is not a commodity. I am the exclusive worldwide
distributor of me and my work. Who else is supposed to determine how
I run my business? You? Some supposed competitor contractor?

I am also not a salesman. You are, of course, absolutely right that
word of mouth is the most effective advertising. I have a lot of
experience and a lot of work that speaks volumes without me saying a
word. That's why I haven't done any advertising in fifteen years.
I'm not trying to grow into some huge company where I'll be counting
beans and on the phone all day. I've found my niche, I've very happy
with it and see no reason to change.

Since I am not a salesman and have no need to sell myself or my work I
really don't have to deal with window shoppers. I'm sure that you'd
agree that the sooner that two people come to an understanding the
better. I am very clear from the beginning about everything I do.

R

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:34:01 -0700, "Madx" wrote:


My husband just reminded me we had to pay home depot $100 to measure for
laminate flooring we were going to do. They sent out some one with a tape
measure and a scratch pad (no cad drawing)

I thought the normal thing was to write numbers down and then do the
CAD drawing whereever the computer was. A floor is two dimensional,
and ought to able to be represented on paper.

The resulting number of square
feet was off by 150.

OTOH, this guy couldn't.

I suppose if the work were done by HD you would have/ might have
gotten the extra 150 feet for free. What *do* they do then.

My caution that they might run out of the color still seems possible
but less likely with laminate tile, because they can ship from all
over the country.

I remeasured and a future contractor measured to
confirm. The number of square feet was just recorded in the order
department. We did not receive a materials list or anything professional.
As for the kitchen design we took our own measurements in and they were used
to give us a free cabinet layout.

That's the basis of why I would not pay $100 for someone to measure or write
up a proposal. It's part of the cost of doing business as a contractor in
hopes of getting the job.

"Scott" wrote

One area that I whole-heartedly to agree with most taking part in this
thread, providing detailed drawings and plans IS providing a service that
should be compensated for. But just to receive a bid for the job, which
is what I understood the OP to be talking about, is larceny, burglary,
thievery or whatever else you'd like to call it.

Not to belabor the point, but even look at this subject title.
He said to measure the kitchen.

nancy

mm wrote:
....
That's the basis of why I would not pay $100 for someone to measure or write
up a proposal. It's part of the cost of doing business as a contractor in
hopes of getting the job.

Well, it depends wholly on the business model of the contractor or
business. Trust me, you're paying for it whether it's an upfront
specified charge or buried in the proposal. It is a cost of doing
business, true, but as someone else has already pointed out in order to
remain in business one has to cover those costs in some fashion.

You can choose to only deal with businesses whose model is to make the
cost invisible to you, but you're still paying. While you may feel good
about "stiffing" the fella' who doesn't charge when he comes out, you
can be pretty sure he'll think again next time you call and that the
cost of window-shoppers is built into his fee schedule.

--

why charge $100 for an estimate,when you can charge $300 for the plan.

free estimates are what gets potential customers to call you in the
first place.

I say give the window shoppers the free estimate without a plan
and if they want a plan, charge them $300 for it and it is NOT deducted
from the contract price.
at least this way you are being paid for your time and you didn't waste
more than 20 min. on a plan that a window shopper is expecting for free.

I usually give free estimates at the time of looking at the job,
then I inform them about the "design fee" to get a plan.

works like a charm
it usually weeds out the garden so to speak.





wrote in message
oups.com...
| On Jun 22, 6:27?pm, "ScottO" wrote:
| My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot
wants
| $100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this
before. Is
| this common?
|
| ScottO.
|
| yeah sad too many windowshoppers.
|
| you can take your measurements to lowes and their kitchen designer
| will come up with a nice plan
|

In article ,
"stainer" wrote:

I usually give free estimates at the time of looking at the job,
then I inform them about the "design fee" to get a plan.
Interesting how things work differently at different places. If you
gave me an estimate and then mentioned the design fee (especially since
the fee is not credited toward the project if we accept) I would have
tossed you out the door as trying to rip me off. Especially since I am
sure the actual bid doesn't always match up with estimate after you get
exactly everything down on paper.

wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:27:39 -0700, "ScottO"
wrote:


My friend is in the market for a kitchen remodel. He says Home Depot wants
$100.00 to just come out and measure. I've never heard of this before. Is
this common?

ScottO.



Damn, I'm in th wrong business. A $5 tape measure and a couple
gallons of gas and an hour of my time for $100. Heck I could make up
to $1000 a day.....

I'd tell HD that you have your own ruler and they can shove it !!!

We decided not to go with Home Depot after the measuring was done and we
saw the drawings.....apparently they measure the angle on all the
corners and one of ours was off. Our kitchen is rectangular, opposite
walls are parallel, so it made for weird looking drawings. Obviously,
the wallboard at the corner wasn't perfect. If they couldn't see the
obvious and correct it, I didn't want them mucking around in my kitchen.
They had one long wall shooting off into space, about 5 degrees off 90.

wrote in message
oups.com...
| It is foolish to think a homeowner shouldnt compare prices.


comparing estimates is fine if you:

compare oranges to oranges
which is what doesn't happen

lowest bidders usually leave out something or forget to figure something
in.

example:
I bid on a roof that was 36 sq. of asphalt shingles strip and re-roof
new venting system, architectural 110 mph, impact and algae resistant
certainteed shingles.

you would assume all the bids were close in price..........right.
NO
the lowest bidders price was half of my estimate (which by the way, was
the materials cost)
trying to figure out how this was possible..........I ask the customer
to see the other estimates in fear that they were being taken.

Yup, I was right
they did not include water and ice barrier, re-flashing chimney and
pipes.
they substituted certainteed shingles with GAF from HD.
they weren't replacing dripedge and were not pulling a permit.

needless to say, the customer hired the lowest bidder anyway.

and yes the customer is still going through the court system trying to
get blood from a stone.

so, did the consumer save money?
not a chance.........it has cost them 10 times more in the long run, and
get this,
they called me to take care of their water damage from their new roof.
which I declined, because I told them before they hired the other
contractor.
The consumer said "hindsight is 20/20" and I replied with "I was your
hindsight"
sorry I can not accept the job.

sure I could have raked them over the coals (like some contractors) but
I take pride in my work.

lowest bidder usually means inexperience in one way shape or form.






Unless
| the estimate is in the range I was thinking the job should cost then
| I will get a couple estimates.
| For instance the chimney cap blew off my chimney. On most houses I'd
| have ladder up and deal with it. However my tudor type home has a
| Very high chimney (cant reach top even from roof. Had a couple people
| come out- #1 "You need new cap- starts at $175". I said I'll get back
| to you. #2 Local Co. in town says that normally costs $40 or so but
| never shows. #3 comes out says "$50 we can do it now" I said "Do
| it!!" For a really large job estimates help determine a fair price.
| If three guys are about the same money then its up to refenreces and
| reputaion. Hi pricers are usually ripoffs and lowballers may be shady
|
| On Jun 22, 10:11 pm, RicodJour wrote:
| On Jun 22, 8:50 pm, "Madx" wrote:
|
| "RicodJour" wrote in message
|
| I started charging for estimates a long
| time ago. Same deal. You sign up, you get a refund. Cuts down
on
| the tire kickers. It also lets people know that you value your
time,
| and you expect them to do the same.
|
| So then a person with a remodel job would have to pay $300-500 up
front to
| get 3 - 5 bids and then only $100 would be credited back. Seems
like quite
| a racket. Why even be the low bid. You could make a living just
going out
| on estimates - just give an outrageous bid. I will never pay for
a quote.
| It's highway robbery.
|
| Wouldn't it be more like burglary since we're talking about
| houses?
|
| You've heard the old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch,
| right? Well, it's true. You may not think you're being charged for
| that "free" estimate, but you are. The contractor just buries it in
| his price somewhere. I prefer to be more upfront about it.
|
| It requires effort to prepare an estimate. There's the site visit,
| discussing the customers wants and needs, working up the estimate
| itself, then sitting down with the customer to review the estimate
and
| point out where there are areas where money could be saved, or areas
| where more money will be required to do it right. In short -
| educating the customer.
|
| Where do you think that time comes from? I have no more hours in my
| week than you do. I can't just ignore hours anymore than your boss
| will ignore hours if you decide to skip work. From your comment,
it's
| obvious that you're not the boss or I wouldn't need to explain this
| stuff to you. An estimate and presentation might take three hours
or
| more. What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of money to
| charge for that time?
|
| Since you brought up the 3-5 bids, where does that come from? Do
you
| think that somehow gives you a better project or saves you money?
It
| doesn't work that way. Most people that get more than a couple or
| three bids are simply price shopping. They think that all
contractors
| are interchangeable and will pick the lowest bid. My work is far
| above the norm and so are my prices. You and I would never get past
| the initial phone call. I screen potential customers at least as
| carefully as the owner screens me. If someone is price shopping,
| there are other contractors who are eager to race each other to the
| bottom of the barrel. I'm not. I've never been the low bid, and if
I
| was informed I was, besides being shocked, I'd assume I'd missed
| something and go racing to double-check my estimate.
|
| When you hear about a remodeling project where there were horrendous
| cost overruns, it's usually due to an owner price shopping, taking
the
| lowest bid and hoping for the best, or because an owner doesn't
| understand the correlation between what they'd like done and what
has
| to be done. Both scenarios are recipes for disaster.
|
| R
|
|