Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help

Can you disconnect the house from the NID and connect your known good phone
there? I know you can; just meant can you see how to do it at the NID? If
you get no dialtone there from the CO, the problem can only be at the CO
side of the NID.
If you DO get dialtone there, it's your responsibility. So disconnect
your DSL filters; they sometimes go bad. Disconnect your phones. Look
for -48V DC on the red wire (assuming it's wired correctly) to the green.
Plug phones back in and see that 48V DC remains. Lift any phone and note
the voltage should drop to around 10 - 12 V DC that close to the CO. Keep
looking.
NOTE: If a line should ring, you could see as much as 100V ac riding on
the -48VDC, so even though it's limited to about 100 mA, it's enough to give
you a good knocking! Some COs remove the 48 druing ring, but not all.

I don't understand their date of the 18th if you can't get dialtone.
They should place an emergency ticket on that; what if you needed 911? Or
do you have a second line in the house?

At any rate, since the DSL works the wires from your house to the CO are in
tact. Assuming no problems on your side of the NID, which can be proven as
above, and which also sounds unlikely, the problem is at the CO.

Qualification: Compliance tester for NA Telecomm

HTH
Pop`



Roy Starrin wrote:
Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help

On Mon, 14 May 2007 15:23:37 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:

Can you disconnect the house from the NID and connect your known good phone
there? I know you can; just meant can you see how to do it at the NID? If
you get no dialtone there from the CO, the problem can only be at the CO
side of the NID.
Did that. Known good phone still gets no dial tone. Or are you saying
I should go into the VZ side of the box

I don't understand their date of the 18th if you can't get dialtone.
They should place an emergency ticket on that; what if you needed 911? Or
do you have a second line in the house?
No second line. Will try the emergency line ploy with Verizon

At any rate, since the DSL works the wires from your house to the CO are in
tact. Assuming no problems on your side of the NID, which can be proven as
above, and which also sounds unlikely, the problem is at the CO.

Talked to 2 techs this morning whom I trapped in their truck. They
said that DSL is digital and only needs one line to operate.
There opinion, expecially since all incoming calls are given a busy
signal and diverted to VZ's voice mail is that there probably is a
short somewhere between the NID and the C.O.

Qualification: Compliance tester for NA Telecomm

HTH
Pop`



Roy Starrin wrote:
Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help

Roy Starrin wrote:
Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help

short somewhere

"MaxMaxwell" wrote in message
...
Roy Starrin wrote:
Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help

short somewhere

Yes, the true test is go to the NID, and see if you get dial tone there with
a known (tested) working phone and the house wiring completely disconnected.
If still no dial tone under those conditions it is a phone company issue.

Roy Starrin wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 15:23:37 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:

Can you disconnect the house from the NID and connect your known good phone
there? I know you can; just meant can you see how to do it at the NID? If
you get no dialtone there from the CO, the problem can only be at the CO
side of the NID.
Did that. Known good phone still gets no dial tone. Or are you saying
I should go into the VZ side of the box

I don't understand their date of the 18th if you can't get dialtone.
They should place an emergency ticket on that; what if you needed 911? Or
do you have a second line in the house?
No second line. Will try the emergency line ploy with Verizon
At any rate, since the DSL works the wires from your house to the CO are in
tact. Assuming no problems on your side of the NID, which can be proven as
above, and which also sounds unlikely, the problem is at the CO.

Talked to 2 techs this morning whom I trapped in their truck. They
said that DSL is digital and only needs one line to operate.
There opinion, expecially since all incoming calls are given a busy
signal and diverted to VZ's voice mail is that there probably is a
short somewhere between the NID and the C.O.
Qualification: Compliance tester for NA Telecomm

HTH
Pop`



Roy Starrin wrote:
Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help


Most all NID's have a modular phone jack that will connect you to the
phone company side of the line. If you get a dialtone on a phone
plugged in there, the problem is in your house. That's the first thing
the phone guy will do/check.
If no dial tone, it's a phone company problem. The fly in the ointment
is the fact that your DSL is intact...it uses the very same wire as the
phone signal. Not sure if its possible to lose voice and keep
data....but the opposite is certainly true...so the problem may well be
at CO.

(snip)

Most all NID's have a modular phone jack that will connect you to the
phone company side of the line. If you get a dialtone on a phone plugged
in there, the problem is in your house. That's the first thing the phone
guy will do/check.
If no dial tone, it's a phone company problem. The fly in the ointment is
the fact that your DSL is intact...it uses the very same wire as the phone
signal.

Not Always- if his DSL is not from Verizon, or if their DSL farm is not at
CO, the DSL could be on the second pair, and the second demarc jack, if it
has one. Mine is, as are all the non-telco DSL installs in town here. (Makes
for some interesting and confusing connections in the block behind my desk.)

aem sends....

In article ,
Roy Starrin wrote:

Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it.

This newsgroup is appropriate. Are you often confronted by Sunday A.M.s?

Verizon...will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.

Five days out? Is your neighborhood flooded and under water? Was there a
wide-spread, natural disaster a day or two earlier? A five-day commitment for
OOS (out of service) trouble is really, REALLY poor service. I'd scream like
a banshee unless the conditions I asked about apply.

FWIW, you probably misunderstood their commitment. The usual line is "We will
repair your service as quickly as possible but no later than xx date." Given
that, your service may be restored well before Friday.

3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

The trouble is in the telco facilities.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice.

OOS trouble here is repaired within 24 hours. For a day or so following
particularly severe weather, the interval is occasionally 48 hours. You
should expect a similar level of service.

a long retired VZ tech...says...that it may suddenly myseteriously
disappear, and that everyone will shrug their shoulders and never
admit who flipped the proper switch somewhere in their system)

Oh, gawd! Not the ole "flip a switch" thing. After 34-years in the
business, I am still amazed that that misconception persists. There is no -
and has never been a - "switch" that is flipped to move a service, much less
to RESTORE a faulted service. I mean, think about it: That would imply that
someone flipped a switch to KILL your service. No way. sigh

There's a short in the cable pair somewhere. A locator pinched your pair when
closing a terminal cover. A mouse chewed the insulation from your pair. A
car jumped a curb and ran over a splice closure. A piece of wire debris
lodged between the pins for your pair in the C.O. (I've seen that exactly
ONCE in 34 years.)

Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.

A Central Office Technician? HA! Good luck. They have newspapers to read
and coffee to drink. Unless the trouble is actually IN the C.O. (VERY
unlikely), they might offer a tour of the facility. Take 'em up on the offer
- then wait for the Network Technician that will actually REPAIR your line.

DSL - Digital Subscriber Line - works almost as well on ONE conductor as it
does on a pair. A shorted pair has little effect on DSL. In other words, you
can easily have working DSL but NO dialtone.

With the exception of the weather-related conditions I mentioned above, if
your telco takes more than 48-hours to restore your service, you should
complain loudly - and even to your state's public service commission. Good
luck!
--

JR

Mean Evil Bell System
Historical Society

On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:43:32 GMT, Roy Starrin
wrote:


Talked to 2 techs this morning whom I trapped in their truck. They

Wow. I've never trapped a tech in a truck. I usually use a
Save-a-Heart trap.

said that DSL is digital and only needs one line to operate.
There opinion, expecially since all incoming calls are given a busy
signal and diverted to VZ's voice mail is that there probably is a
short somewhere between the NID and the C.O.

In article
,
Jim Redelfs wrote:
a long retired VZ tech...says...that it may suddenly myseteriously
disappear, and that everyone will shrug their shoulders and never
admit who flipped the proper switch somewhere in their system)

Oh, gawd! Not the ole "flip a switch" thing. After 34-years in the
business, I am still amazed that that misconception persists. There is no -
and has never been a - "switch" that is flipped to move a service, much less
to RESTORE a faulted service. I mean, think about it: That would imply that
someone flipped a switch to KILL your service. No way. sigh

I believe the phrase "flipped the switch" does not necessarily mean
someone literally flipped a switch. It just means the fix was trivial
(and the cause for the failure might also be trivial), once you can get
someone to admit there is a problem at their end.

And it definitely happens sometimes that things break for trivial
reasons, and the fixes are trivial. For example, I once had DSL break,
because some idiot at Sprint decided to change my static IP address
without bothering to tell me. The fix was to get them to tell me the
new address, once they admitted that the problem was on their end.

--
--Tim Smith

On May 15, 12:08 am, Tim Smith
wrote:
In article
,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

a long retired VZ tech...says...that it may suddenly myseteriously
disappear, and that everyone will shrug their shoulders and never
admit who flipped the proper switch somewhere in their system)

Oh, gawd! Not the ole "flip a switch" thing. After 34-years in the
business, I am still amazed that that misconception persists. There is no -
and has never been a - "switch" that is flipped to move a service, much less
to RESTORE a faulted service. I mean, think about it: That would imply that
someone flipped a switch to KILL your service. No way. sigh

I believe the phrase "flipped the switch" does not necessarily mean
someone literally flipped a switch. It just means the fix was trivial
(and the cause for the failure might also be trivial), once you can get
someone to admit there is a problem at their end.

And it definitely happens sometimes that things break for trivial
reasons, and the fixes are trivial. For example, I once had DSL break,
because some idiot at Sprint decided to change my static IP address
without bothering to tell me. The fix was to get them to tell me the
new address, once they admitted that the problem was on their end.

--
--Tim Smith

In many areas the phone company can do an automatic remote test on the
line right from the CO via a computer command. That will usually tell
if there is a break, short, etc, basicly give some indication if it is
their problem. Verizon here in NJ can do that on my line while I'm
on the cell phone with them.

On Mon, 14 May 2007 22:32:47 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article ,
Roy Starrin wrote:

Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it.

This newsgroup is appropriate. Are you often confronted by Sunday A.M.s?

Once a week. Suffering from lack of coffee when I wrote that

Verizon...will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.

Five days out? Is your neighborhood flooded and under water? Was there a
wide-spread, natural disaster a day or two earlier? A five-day commitment for
OOS (out of service) trouble is really, REALLY poor service. I'd scream like
a banshee unless the conditions I asked about apply.
In my discussion with the techs I found sitting in their trucks
outside the CO, they mentioned that they have been advised that
morning that Virginia Beach was so far behind that additional troops
were being deployed from northern VA and would be there (here) before
the day was out.

FWIW, you probably misunderstood their commitment. The usual line is "We will
repair your service as quickly as possible but no later than xx date." Given
that, your service may be restored well before Friday.

3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

The trouble is in the telco facilities.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice.

OOS trouble here is repaired within 24 hours. For a day or so following
particularly severe weather, the interval is occasionally 48 hours. You
should expect a similar level of service.

First, thanks for the comprehensive input:

Interestingly, the problem went away, announced by a computerized
phone call, which contained no other information, at 5 p.m. yesterday
- about 30 hours.
It cleared up after, per the instructions in the phone book, I emailed
their consumer complaint folks around noon and told them that having
no 911 for 5 days was totally unsat, and the next email was going to
the SCC, just as they also provide for in the book.
I also found that calling them is a farce - especially when you have
no phone. In my initial trouble call, when I finally got to a real
person, I discussed with the "agent" at great
length all I had done to I.D. that the problem was outside my
premises. When I finally found out how to handle the situation on
line therough their repair page, I called up the report, and it
contained the following: No dial tone
This morning, that same page still contains the same information, with
an ETR of 1800 Friday the 18th, in spite of my having updated it and
their acknowledgment that they got the update. And the repair history
indicates that no repairs have been associated with my number for the
past 14 days. Am going to let it sit for a day to see if it gets
updated. Then I'll cancel it if it is still active.
Again, thanks to all for all the inputs

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:55:33 GMT, Roy Starrin
wrote:

Was suddenly contronted with the Sunday a.m. and can't find
appropriate forum to address it. Verizon is of little/no help, except
to say they will send a tech out on Friday the 18th.
Situation:
1.No dial tone; unable to place outgoing calls
2. All incoming calls are diverted to VZ provided Voice Mail box,
where they are available for retrieval if I use a second off- premises
phone and call in using VZ's procedures.
3. My DSL works fine. It is not a home run from NID to PC, but is
simply picked up out of the wall.

Factors bearing on the problem:
1. Have checked out 2 telephones by taking to neighbors house.
Using either one, plugged directly into the NID, situations 1 and 2
remain unchanged
3. Have unplugged, house from NID. Situation 2 remains unchanged.

Was sort of hoping there was a lineman out there who could provide
some advice. If anyone is aware of a better forum in which I might
seek advice on this, I would appreciate it.
FWIW, talked to a long retired VZ tech yesterday, and he says problem
is their, not mine; that there is probably a short/open somewhere off
premises that they will have to track down, and that sending tech here
won't help, except to confirm what I am telling them. (He also added
that it may suddenly myseteriously disappear, and that everyone will
shrug their shoulders and never admit who flipped the proper switch
somewhere in their system)
Live a couple of blocks from the C.O. Am going to try and talk my way
in there today to see if I can get them to help.
TIA for any help

DSL Might be using line 2 = yellow and black pair from Pole..

Home analog line is/should be green/red..

Normally there is a "DSL Splitter" that uses a "resistor" to split or
remove the signal..

Like everyone said.. Connect to the NID outside your house with a
working 1 line analog phone..

Dial tone and works = your house has dirty cable
No dial tone = Phone company problem..

In article ,
Joe wrote:

Normally there is a "DSL Splitter" that uses a "resistor" to split or
remove the signal..

This is a common misconception. It's a FILTER, not a splitter.

With the VERY occasional exception, DSL and dialtone "ride" along the same,
SINGLE pair of wires the entire way from the DSLAM to the premises.

Everything on the line (read: EVERYTHING), except the DSL modem itself, must
be filtered to constrain the device(s) to the narrow bandwidth required by
POTS equipment. This leaves the rest of the bandwidth to be used for DSL.

With an unfiltered device on the line (w/DSL), an incoming call will cause the
DSL sync to fail, interrupting internet service. Also, when using an
unfiltered telephone, the local user will hear all manner of "white noise" on
the line. Often, simply picking-up an unfiltered telephone will bring down
the DSL connection.
--

JR

Climb poles and dig holes
Have staplegun, will travel