Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

On May 4, 7:24 am, Frank Thompson wrote:
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

Surest method is to heat the nut with a torch. Using an impact type
wrench is always better than just applying constant torque.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 4, 7:24 am, Frank Thompson wrote:
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

Surest method is to heat the nut with a torch. Using an impact type
wrench is always better than just applying constant torque.


Or, if you can do it, split the nut.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...ductId=1290356

Al

On 4 May 2007 05:24:04 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:

Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

You want to heat the nut more than if the nut comes off, and the
engine block more than the bolt, if the bolt comes out

If the engine runs, you can run it for a while and heat everything up,
but it will heat the block maybe a bit before it heats the bolts that
go into it. REgardless, when I did it, the one bolt I needed came out
with only moderate to hard force, compared to impossible before.

OTOH, it might heat the bolt with a nut on it before it heats the nut,
so I guess you should heat those with a propane or MAPP torch.

"Frank Thompson" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank


I've never had any luck with Liquid Wrench, but great success stories using
a long soak with something called Kroil:

http://www.kanolabs.com/

"Jackson" wrote in message
...

"Frank Thompson" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank


I've never had any luck with Liquid Wrench, but great success stories
using a long soak with something called Kroil:

http://www.kanolabs.com/

Their website says it is not for personal use or retail sale. How do you
propose a DIYer to get it?

Charlie

On May 4, 1:20 pm, "Charlie Bress" wrote:
"Jackson" wrote in message

...



"Frank Thompson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

I've never had any luck with Liquid Wrench, but great success stories
using a long soak with something called Kroil:

http://www.kanolabs.com/

Their website says it is not for personal use or retail sale. How do you
propose a DIYer to get it?

Charlie

Wow, I never actually read the disclaimer on anything before, but it
does say that its not for consumer use. I suggest going ahead and
ordering it anyway. I have a can of aerokroil (a fellow consumer gave
it to me), and in my experience it works better than liquid wrench.

Ken

On May 4, 7:24 am, Frank Thompson wrote:
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

HEAT! Lots of heat. MAPP gas might do it, but it takes forever. Use a
regular oxy-acetylene torch with a # 3 or better tip. Heat a fair area
around the old nuts and keep working the torch around until the nut
turns nice bright red. Have your tools handy to spin it right off.
What makes the high heat work is changing the Fe2O3 (rust) to Fe3O4
black oxide which has a smaller phsical volume. The expansion of the
nut is part of the process, too. HTH

Joe

Kroil is probably the finest rust penetrate available.

PB blaster works well also.

A torch works best.

--
Steve Barker




"Jackson" wrote in message
...

"Frank Thompson" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank


I've never had any luck with Liquid Wrench, but great success stories
using a long soak with something called Kroil:

http://www.kanolabs.com/

Take it to a garage !
They've got the lift, they've got the tools,
they've got the parts, and they do it every day.

I'll tackle most do-it-yourself jobs....except exhaust systems.


rj

good point. It's no fun working with rusty studs on a lift. I would never
even consider it on my back.

as for the original post, if it's a nut and bolt situation, then the best
you can hope for is to put the impact to it and break it in half. Then
install a new nut and bolt. done.

--
Steve Barker




"RJ" wrote in message
...

Take it to a garage !
They've got the lift, they've got the tools,
they've got the parts, and they do it every day.

I'll tackle most do-it-yourself jobs....except exhaust systems.


rj

On 4 May 2007 05:24:04 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:

Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

I just heard Click and Clack recommend Liquid Wrench for a squeaking
rear on, when the guy drives over bumps. I would have thought
something more like oil.

I have had success with Liquid Wrench removing bolts, but I haven't
tried it on exhaust manifold. Nothing that was especially hot.

Follow the instructions, which say to put it on in advance and strike
the metal with something metal to make it vibrate so the LW works its
way into the crark. I would put it on a day in advance. Don't
remember what the instructions say, but maybe that.

On 4 May 2007 05:24:04 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:

Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor?

Curious. I don't recognize the MF135. Is this a garden tractor, like
I thought, or a big farm tractor? If the latter, are the front wheels
close together or as far apart as the rear tires.

I'm trying to imagine putting a garden tractor on a lift, or how to
lift a farm tractor with close-set front wheels. ...Aren't the engine
parts accesible without a lift?

Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

On May 5, 12:54 pm, mm wrote:
On 4 May 2007 05:24:04 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:

Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

I just heard Click and Clack recommend Liquid Wrench for a squeaking
rear on, when the guy drives over bumps. I would have thought
something more like oil.

I heard that too, they're full of crap. Putting a petroleum product
on a squeaking rubber bushing is a good way to get it to fail more
quickly than it already is.


I have had success with Liquid Wrench removing bolts, but I haven't
tried it on exhaust manifold. Nothing that was especially hot.

Follow the instructions, which say to put it on in advance and strike
the metal with something metal to make it vibrate so the LW works its
way into the crark. I would put it on a day in advance. Don't
remember what the instructions say, but maybe that.

You can't put too much penetrating oil on rusty parts, but sometimes
heat is the only thing that works. When all else fails, studs can be
drilled out and holes retapped. If you don't have "the touch" for
doing this, it might be worthwhile borrowing someone who does.

nate

"Ken" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 4, 1:20 pm, "Charlie Bress" wrote:
"Jackson" wrote in message

...



"Frank Thompson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust
manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

I've never had any luck with Liquid Wrench, but great success stories
using a long soak with something called Kroil:

http://www.kanolabs.com/

Their website says it is not for personal use or retail sale. How do you
propose a DIYer to get it?

Charlie

Wow, I never actually read the disclaimer on anything before, but it
does say that its not for consumer use. I suggest going ahead and
ordering it anyway. I have a can of aerokroil (a fellow consumer gave
it to me), and in my experience it works better than liquid wrench.

Ken


Yup, just place the order.

mm wrote:
On 4 May 2007 05:24:04 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:


Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor?


Curious. I don't recognize the MF135. Is this a garden tractor, like
I thought, or a big farm tractor? If the latter, are the front wheels
close together or as far apart as the rear tires.

I'm trying to imagine putting a garden tractor on a lift, or how to
lift a farm tractor with close-set front wheels. ...Aren't the engine
parts accesible without a lift?


I'm guessing it's a vintage Massey-Ferguson, not sure how big, though.
Generally accessability is pretty good, although some of the old
tractors had separate frames which might make accessability marginally
difficult. Can't remember which ones - most of my tractor experience
was with really old (i.e. WWII vintage) Farmalls, which simply used the
drivetrain as the main structural member.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

farm tractor abot 40+ years old... both wheels are about same
distancew apart
Curious. I don't recognize the MF135. Is this a garden tractor, like
I thought, or a big farm tractor? If the latter, are the front wheels
close together or as far apart as the rear tires.

__ Bob __ wrote:
Chuck (in SC) wrote:

On 5 May 2007 17:27:55 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:


farm tractor abot 40+ years old... both wheels are about same
distancew apart

Curious. I don't recognize the MF135. Is this a garden tractor, like
I thought, or a big farm tractor? If the latter, are the front wheels
close together or as far apart as the rear tires.



pictures of mf135
http://tinyurl.com/33qopb

You might want to try this .. .. ..

Heat the area with a torch until it's pretty hot .. not red, but pretty
hot. Take an old candle and apply the wax around the joint just like
as if you were soldering copper pipe. Keep the area hot for a few
minutes, keep applying the wax. After a little bit of that, let it
cool for a few minutes and see if it doesn't come apart with moderate
torque. It seems the heat expads both pieces of metal, but in so
doing, it breaks the bond caused by the rust & corrosion. The candle
wax wicks down into the joint, lubricating it enough to get it apart.
I've used this many times, especially on exhaust parts where both the
nut and bolt were pretty badly corroded. Can't hurt to try.


__ Bøb __

I'd almost forgotten about that trick. I've used it in the past when I
didn't have access to an oxyacetylene torch. It does work.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 5 May 2007 17:27:55 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:

farm tractor abot 40+ years old... both wheels are about same
distancew apart
Curious. I don't recognize the MF135. Is this a garden tractor, like
I thought, or a big farm tractor? If the latter, are the front wheels
close together or as far apart as the rear tires.

pictures of mf135
http://tinyurl.com/33qopb

Chuck (in SC) wrote:
On 5 May 2007 17:27:55 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:


farm tractor abot 40+ years old... both wheels are about same
distancew apart

Curious. I don't recognize the MF135. Is this a garden tractor, like
I thought, or a big farm tractor? If the latter, are the front wheels
close together or as far apart as the rear tires.


pictures of mf135
http://tinyurl.com/33qopb

You might want to try this .. .. ..

Heat the area with a torch until it's pretty hot .. not red, but pretty
hot. Take an old candle and apply the wax around the joint just like
as if you were soldering copper pipe. Keep the area hot for a few
minutes, keep applying the wax. After a little bit of that, let it
cool for a few minutes and see if it doesn't come apart with moderate
torque. It seems the heat expads both pieces of metal, but in so
doing, it breaks the bond caused by the rust & corrosion. The candle
wax wicks down into the joint, lubricating it enough to get it apart.
I've used this many times, especially on exhaust parts where both the
nut and bolt were pretty badly corroded. Can't hurt to try.


__ Bøb __

On May 4, 8:24 am, Frank Thompson wrote:
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

All the previous suggestions about using heat are good; Just wanted
to add a trick taught to me by an old dutchman. When you get the nut
hot, spay it with oil. It sucks it into the bolt threads and
carbonizes. After it cools a little, should come off easier.

wrote

All the previous suggestions about using heat are good; Just wanted
to add a trick taught to me by an old dutchman. When you get the nut
hot, spay it with oil. It sucks it into the bolt threads and
carbonizes. After it cools a little, should come off easier.


That's a darn fine tip. Thanks.

On Sun, 6 May 2007 11:42:59 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote

All the previous suggestions about using heat are good; Just wanted
to add a trick taught to me by an old dutchman. When you get the nut
hot, spay it with oil. It sucks it into the bolt threads and
carbonizes. After it cools a little, should come off easier.


That's a darn fine tip. Thanks.


I love old tips. I call him Pops, but he is a tradesman of 40 years.

Told me to dull a nail head to prevent wood from splitting when
nailing near the end. Just hold the nail head on a solid surface and
tap the tip once or twice. The nail will rip through the wood vs
splitting it. He even paid me too listen :-))

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 May 2007 11:42:59 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote

All the previous suggestions about using heat are good; Just wanted
to add a trick taught to me by an old dutchman. When you get the nut
hot, spay it with oil. It sucks it into the bolt threads and
carbonizes. After it cools a little, should come off easier.


That's a darn fine tip. Thanks.


I love old tips. I call him Pops, but he is a tradesman of 40 years.

Told me to dull a nail head to prevent wood from splitting when
nailing near the end. Just hold the nail head on a solid surface and
tap the tip once or twice. The nail will rip through the wood vs
splitting it. He even paid me too listen :-))

--
Oren

It's damn amazing what a guy can learn by listening. Unless, of course,
you're in the club that knows it all. I learned a long time ago when around
old timers, shut up and listen. They like someone (anyone) who listens, and
you learn a lot.

I love Yogi's quote, "You can see a lot by observing."

Steve

On Sun, 6 May 2007 15:24:49 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 6 May 2007 11:42:59 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


wrote

All the previous suggestions about using heat are good; Just wanted
to add a trick taught to me by an old dutchman. When you get the nut
hot, spay it with oil. It sucks it into the bolt threads and
carbonizes. After it cools a little, should come off easier.


That's a darn fine tip. Thanks.


I love old tips. I call him Pops, but he is a tradesman of 40 years.

Told me to dull a nail head to prevent wood from splitting when
nailing near the end. Just hold the nail head on a solid surface and
tap the tip once or twice. The nail will rip through the wood vs
splitting it. He even paid me too listen :-))

--
Oren

It's damn amazing what a guy can learn by listening. Unless, of course,
you're in the club that knows it all. I learned a long time ago when around
old timers, shut up and listen. They like someone (anyone) who listens, and
you learn a lot.

I love Yogi's quote, "You can see a lot by observing."

Steve


I call 'em "ole timers". I was once accused of being older than dirt
on my job; but that rookie learned how to save and protect his life.

Listening is a learned art.

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

"Oren" wrote

I call 'em "ole timers". I was once accused of being older than dirt
on my job; but that rookie learned how to save and protect his life.

Listening is a learned art.

--
Oren

A friend of mine is a private investigator for an attorney's office. What
these guys dig up can make the difference of millions of dollars. He's good
at it.

I asked him how he got so much information. He just said he was a good
listener, and that most people like to talk. If you just get them talking,
and know how to punch the buttons, people will tell you everything you want.
He says he does especially good with people who don't like the person being
inquired about.

Steve

On Sun, 6 May 2007 16:48:01 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote

I call 'em "ole timers". I was once accused of being older than dirt
on my job; but that rookie learned how to save and protect his life.

Listening is a learned art.

--
Oren

A friend of mine is a private investigator for an attorney's office. What
these guys dig up can make the difference of millions of dollars. He's good
at it.

From '77 - '02 I spoke with, dealt with on a daily basis, and talked
with thousands of felons, develop a rapport, they will tell on their
grandma. I have known of a grandma that told on the family member.

I asked him how he got so much information. He just said he was a good
listener, and that most people like to talk. If you just get them talking,
and know how to punch the buttons, people will tell you everything you want.

Some time you have to slap them to shut them up!

He says he does especially good with people who don't like the person being
inquired about.

Question the veracity of the report.. I smell something.

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

Frank Thompson writes:
Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.

Two methods I've used on bolted-together auto exhausts:

- Heat the nut with small hot flame, ideally an oxyacetylene flame. Try
not to heat the bolt directly, just the nut. When it starts glowing
red, use a wrench to unscrew it.

- If the above doesn't work, switch to the cutting tip. Heat one side
of the nut hot enough to cut, but again try to keep the bolt cool. Hit
the oxygen lever for a moment. If you've timed it right, you'll cut
right through the nut (because the steel is hot enough to burn when the
oxygen hits it) without damaging the threads on the bolt (which is still
too cold to be affected).

It might be worth trying the latter technique on some scrap bolts and
nuts until you get the feel of it.

Dave

I've also had good results, spraying the super heated nut with WD
40 or Castle lube. Do this outdoor, it give off clouds of vapors.

Another mechanic suggested dripping candle wax onto the super
heated nut. I've not tried this.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: All the previous suggestions about using heat are good; Just
wanted
: to add a trick taught to me by an old dutchman. When you get
the nut
: hot, spay it with oil. It sucks it into the bolt threads and
: carbonizes. After it cools a little, should come off easier.
:

On Fri, 04 May 2007 05:24:04 -0700, Frank Thompson wrote:

Any suggestions for removing frozen nuts and bolts on exhaust manifold/
exhaust pipe
connection on old MF135 tractor? Am using Liquid Wrench w/o success.
I want to be careful not to break bolts.
Frank

Definitely use heat. Those bolts have been through so many heat/cool
cycles that they are pretty much tightly sealed with that holes. If you
don't use heat, you will almost certainly snap the heads off. Anyway, if
your lucky enough to have bolts and not weld studs, I'm happy for you. If
they snap at least you can get them extracted...

Many good suggestions here, but bolts & nuts still there because
unable to try most of them because of location of one of three sets.
The front and rear ones relatively easy to work with (on fact already
have loosened front one) but one on right side, i.e. between manifold
downward exit /exhaust pipe header and engine block is all but
impossible to reach. My next step might be just to remove entire
manifold from engine block. The four studs are accessible. Problem
with them is that some are off-the-wall sizes. Whoever rebuilt engine
previously replaced
originals with non-spec replacements. Two of them require a 17/32
socket which I have never seen anywhere. Nearest metric to that won't
fit.
Heat solution is worrisome because of fire danger regarding deisel
fuel.