I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

"unklbob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.


Am I the only person in America who's heard of paint brands like Devoe and
Martin-Senour? You bought the wrong paint. Hopefully, your car will take you
to the right store next time.

On 16 Apr 2007 06:44:00 -0700, "unklbob" wrote:

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

It's like the crappy restaurant on the interstate.

They have lousy, overpriced food, and poor service.
Do they care if you don't come back ?
NO !
There'll be a thousand different cars tomorrow.

rj

On Apr 16, 8:44 am, "unklbob" wrote:
I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

Paint coverage is extremely variable and depends on what technique is
used or lack of. SW fudges a bit on coverage numbers because the
other companies do so. All of them do it.

I never look at those coverage numbers, just use my experience. I go
to SW because they have knowlegable folk working there. Never have I
had a problem with their paint.

"unklbob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

In most cases that is good practice.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

If your warranty has expired, then your warranty has expired.
I don't understand how they have wronged you.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

Hard to say about this one; paint never covers as well as we would like. I
have never complained about it; not sure how the store should react to it.

On Apr 16, 10:56 am, "Lawrence" wrote:


Paint coverage is extremely variable and depends on what technique is
used or lack of. SW fudges a bit on coverage numbers because the
other companies do so. All of them do it.


In addition, we've used about 75 gallons of interior paint in the past
month...and in one room we had to sub in their "top of the line" and
it didn't cover as well as cashmere. Colors, wall condition, roll vs
spray, roller nap length all have a piece of the equation. With out
additional details, nothing can be offered.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

paint never covers as well as we would like.

Have you ever tried Devoe or Martin-Senour paints? Based on my experience,
they cover BETTER than I expect them to.

In article , "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Toller" wrote in message
...

paint never covers as well as we would like.

Have you ever tried Devoe or Martin-Senour paints? Based on my experience,
they cover BETTER than I expect them to.

Good paint, or low expectations? :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Toller" wrote in message
...

paint never covers as well as we would like.

Have you ever tried Devoe or Martin-Senour paints? Based on my experience,
they cover BETTER than I expect them to.

Good paint, or low expectations? :-)

Amazing paint. But, I've never seen it at the big home improvement stores,
so I guess not many people run across it unless they go to a hardware or
paint specialty store.

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:04:09 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

Hard to say about this one; paint never covers as well as we would like. I
have never complained about it; not sure how the store should react to it.

I first have to figure out which end of the painting implement caused
the failure :-/
--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

On Apr 16, 7:44 am, "unklbob" wrote:
I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

Maybe not. Maybe to them your individual case only costs them low
dollar amounts not fix. They may figure that your only one consumer
and not worth their trouble (right or wrong that might be how they see
it).

John

clipped

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

How old was the washer when you determined the tran was bad? Write a
letter to the CEO at Maytag and explain the problem. Then tell him you
will never buy Maytag (or kenmore or whatever it really is now); be sure
to mention the repairman's experience.

I've only used SW once and it was superb. How bad was the coverage -
covered how much area compared to what the label claimed? Dark color?
Covering dark color?

You are getting wise in your old age.

No, it is not worth it to 'win' in either of those situations. You
have made several people unhappy and they didn't deserve your ranting.

Find a way to appease your soul such as sending a complaint to the
consumer complaint web site, and then let it go.




On 16 Apr 2007 06:44:00 -0700, "unklbob" wrote:

I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

If everyone in this group forwarded this to Maytag and Sherwin Williams it
would make a difference. I was considering a Maytag but this just synched it
..Screw them and Sherwin Williams I hate companies who put out junk and
expect the consumer to eat it. I just went through this with my Chevy truck
I wrote the company and told them
They cut their own throat I'm going back to a foreign truck
They called and offered me returning customer discount on my next truck I
told them Remember Shame on you the first time Shame on me the second time.
Do I sound so stupid that you think I'm going to come back so you can do it
to me again I am going to forward this to the companies
"unklbob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.

On Apr 16, 11:52 pm, deke wrote:
You are getting wise in your old age.

No, it is not worth it to 'win' in either of those situations. You
have made several people unhappy and they didn't deserve your ranting.

Find a way to appease your soul such as sending a complaint to the
consumer complaint web site, and then let it go.

On 16 Apr 2007 06:44:00 -0700, "unklbob" wrote:



I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The original point of my complaint was that both my claims were legit,
and given my experience in those industries, the only conclusion a
manager or customer service rep could make was a) this guy has a
legitimate gripe, or b) he's lying and trying to scam us.

In the Maytag case, from the point of delivery the unit never fully
spun out the clothes at the end of the cycle--they ended up almost
dripping wet. I called the service line during the warranty period
and was told that this was a "clothes saving feature" and in tandem
with the dryer, the clothes should come out fine, which they did,
although it took them a long time to dry. When the unit failed
completely after the portion of the warranty that covered labor
expired, I called a local repair guy who told me that given my story
the transmission was defective from the get go. Indeed, the new
tranny that was installed completely spun out the clothes, at least
for the first month, then it began to fail. (And no, I am not
overloading the unit!!)

As for the SW paint, we purchased three gallons of their "Super
Paint", cleaned the walls with a trisodium phosphate dilution, LET IT
COMPLETELY DRY, then applied a coat of Zinnser "Bulls-Eye" primer. In
two of the rooms the paint coverage was perfect--we applied it with a
medium nap roller, which was appropriate for type of texture on the
wall. In the third room we applied it exactly like the other two, and
after one coat we could see streaks. We ended up putting two coats
plus touch-ups on the room and couldn't completely cover all four
walls in a small child's bedroom. When I went back I told the guy my
story and asked for a replacement gallon at half price since I only
got half the coverage I expected. I suggested that perhaps there was
an issue with the tint or the base, since the other two gallons
covered perfectly.

My point about both of these incidences is that despite going up the
chain in both companies, I got *no* response from individuals whose
jobs rely on my satisfaction.

I would add, that I had a bad experience with Sears, that given the
circumstances was essentially my fault. Nevertheless, the manager of
the department that I was dealing with completely handled my problem
to my satisfaction, and I'll keep shopping there. Both Lowe's and
Depot have also handled by problems with alacrity. I am not a chronic
complainer, I just have owned several homes over the course of my life
and I have bought a lot of home improvement supplies.

A few years ago the appliance manufacturers dropped their customer complaint
arbitration process and since then appliances and the handling of complaints
have gone down in quality. Unfortunately, the only government entity that
seems to have any interest in consumer affairs these days is the attorney
general office in NY. They have been doing the job of the SEC, banking, and
other federal agencies that have been asleep at the wheel since the 1980's.
Throw your Maytag washer away as we did with our Maytag dishwasher. It is
junk.


"unklbob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I used to manage retail businesses in both paint and appliance sales,
and one thing that I learned was that when dealing with the public,
only about 40% of people who had problems with your product took the
time to complain, and of that percentage, only about 5% were scammers
or unreasonable. So in order to keep the business of the remaining
95% of the customers who complained in good faith, I ate the loss on
the scammers and those who complained in bad faith.

I recently dealt with the corporations mentioned above, and had no
success, despite attempts at going up the chain of command. I
purchased a Maytag Atlantis washer, and determined after the warranty
had expired that the unit was defective as delivered. Without going
into all the details, I'll just say that talking to repairman I found
out that there were significant problems with the unit's transmission,
and after I paid over $200 to have the transmission replaced, I am now
suffering from the same problem as before--of course the repair
warranty has expired.

In the case of the paint, I purchased three gallons of SW's top end
interior paint, and got very poor coverage despite careful prep. I
went through the chain of command from sales associate to store
manager to district manager and received no followthrough despite what
I felt was a reasonable beef.

At a point, I guess its not worth my time to continue dealing with
these people over relatively small sums of money, but I have to wonder
why they think its worth a short term gain to walk my business for the
rest of my life when its pretty certain that I will buy more
appliances and paint in the future?

Stupid business decisions on their part.