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#1
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
Hello, quick question for the experts out there. I live in the
midwest and have a sump pump in the basement. PVC from sump pump runs up the basement wall and across a 10 foot ceiling section and connects directly to the city sewer system underground (I think). Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. Replaced that myself. Still a lot of vibration. Had a plumber come out...he recommended a new sump pump as our home is 12-years old. Plumber installed that, and told me to secure the ceiling PVC better to remove vibration. Winter came and I forgot about it. ;( Now that we've had some thaws, vibration came back worse than ever. I got some hangers and secured the PVC as solid as possible. Now, the vibration is localized to the check valve, and it lasts like 30-45 seconds after the pump cycles. No banging, just loud vibration. I had saved the original check valve, which the plumber had said was still good. I put that back on, and all was quiet, until I noticed it was leaking around the upper rubber flanges. I tightened it down and now it's the same...massive vibration localized to the check valve after a cycle, lasting around 30-45 seconds. Any ideas what's happening? |
#2
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mar 12, 10:31�am, "
wrote: Hello, quick question for the experts out there. *I live in the midwest and have a sump pump in the basement. *PVC from sump pump runs up the basement wall and across a 10 foot ceiling section and connects directly to the city sewer system underground (I think). Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. Replaced that myself. *Still a lot of vibration. *Had a plumber come out...he recommended a new sump pump as our home is 12-years old. Plumber installed that, and told me to secure the ceiling PVC better to remove vibration. *Winter came and I forgot about it. *;( Now that we've had some thaws, vibration came back worse than ever. *I got some hangers and secured the PVC as solid as possible. *Now, the vibration is localized to the check valve, and it lasts like 30-45 seconds after the pump cycles. *No banging, just loud vibration. I had saved the original check valve, which the plumber had said was still good. *I put that back on, and all was quiet, until I noticed it was leaking around the upper rubber flanges. *I tightened it down and now it's the same...massive vibration localized to the check valve after a cycle, lasting around 30-45 seconds. Any ideas what's happening? with a vibrating load rubber mounts would be better, think of your cars engine. are you aware its illegal to put sump pump ground water down a sanitary sewer? during heavy rains the extra groundwater floods the sewer plant. eventually your sewer company or at home resale will catch up with you. around here they check on avewrage every 2 years and at home resale have a tanker truck come out with infrared dye stained water dump it in all downspouts sump pumps etc, while checking at a manhole looking for the tell tale of cheating. |
#3
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mar 12, 11:02 am, " wrote:
On Mar 12, 10:31?am, " wrote: Hello, quick question for the experts out there. ?I live in the midwest and have a sump pump in the basement. ?PVC from sump pump runs up the basement wall and across a 10 foot ceiling section and connects directly to the city sewer system underground (I think). Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. Replaced that myself. ?Still a lot of vibration. ?Had a plumber come out...he recommended a new sump pump as our home is 12-years old. Plumber installed that, and told me to secure the ceiling PVC better to remove vibration. ?Winter came and I forgot about it. ?;( Now that we've had some thaws, vibration came back worse than ever. ?I got some hangers and secured the PVC as solid as possible. ?Now, the vibration is localized to the check valve, and it lasts like 30-45 seconds after the pump cycles. ?No banging, just loud vibration. I had saved the original check valve, which the plumber had said was still good. ?I put that back on, and all was quiet, until I noticed it was leaking around the upper rubber flanges. ?I tightened it down and now it's the same...massive vibration localized to the check valve after a cycle, lasting around 30-45 seconds. Any ideas what's happening? with a vibrating load rubber mounts would be better, think of your cars engine. are you aware its illegal to put sump pump ground water down a sanitary sewer? during heavy rains the extra groundwater floods the sewer plant. eventually your sewer company or at home resale will catch up with you. around here they check on avewrage every 2 years and at home resale have a tanker truck come out with infrared dye stained water dump it in all downspouts sump pumps etc, while checking at a manhole looking for the tell tale of cheating.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - (1) The check valve has rubber flanges on either side of it attaching to the PVC. The check valve "moves" rapidly with the vibration, but it is strong enough to make noise we can hear throughout the house, and it lasts for quite some time after the sump cycle ends. (2) I said "sewer" but I honestly have no idea where it goes. There's nothing outside the house that's evident where the sump discharges, so I assume it's hooked up underground to "something" that drains it away. I've asked neighbors in the past and theirs are all the same way, and it's a fairly new neighborhood (20 yrs). So, thanks, but I assume I'm ok on that issue. |
#4
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
wrote in message eventually your sewer company or at home resale will catch up with you. around here they check on avewrage every 2 years and at home resale have a tanker truck come out with infrared dye stained water dump it in all downspouts sump pumps etc, while checking at a manhole looking for the tell tale of cheating. I'm glad I don't live where you live. I've never heard of that. Does the tax assessor drop in on occasion also? |
#5
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mar 12, 3:47�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message eventually your sewer company or at home resale will catch up with you. around here they check on avewrage every 2 years and at home resale have a tanker truck come out with infrared dye stained water dump it in all downspouts sump pumps etc, while checking at a manhole looking for the tell tale of cheating. I'm glad I don't live where you live. *I've never heard of that. *Does the tax assessor drop in on occasion also? Yeah they came by and measured every home, all the pavement, for sidewalks driveways etc. Alleghenyy county has one of the highest property taxes nationwide Combined school, county and municipal over 3 grand per $100,000 of home value. Most tax is for schools, starting salary in my area near 60 grand, tp pay after 10 years about a $100,000......... Nice money for working 190 days a year////// The rules on sewage are really necessary, Flood the sewer plant means untreated sewage goes in the river, where people boat, swim, and drinking water comes from. |
#6
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mar 12, 10:31 am, "
wrote: Hello, quick question for the experts out there. I live in the midwest and have a sump pump in the basement. PVC from sump pump runs up the basement wall and across a 10 foot ceiling section and connects directly to the city sewer system underground (I think). Illegal in many communities and just a bad practice generally. Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. Replaced that myself. Still a lot of vibration. Had a plumber come out...he recommended a new sump pump as our home is 12-years old. Plumber installed that, and told me to secure the ceiling PVC better to remove vibration. Winter came and I forgot about it. ;( Now that we've had some thaws, vibration came back worse than ever. I got some hangers and secured the PVC as solid as possible. Now, the vibration is localized to the check valve, and it lasts like 30-45 seconds after the pump cycles. No banging, just loud vibration. I had saved the original check valve, which the plumber had said was still good. I put that back on, and all was quiet, until I noticed it was leaking around the upper rubber flanges. I tightened it down and now it's the same...massive vibration localized to the check valve after a cycle, lasting around 30-45 seconds. Any ideas what's happening? From a simple physics analysis, one could asume you're pumping into a closed system which then relieves the pressure through the check valve. Confirm by allowing the pump to discharge at atmospheric pressure, i.e., out onto your lawn or into a (legal) storm sewer. The water can't all drain, so some will return to the check valve and you will hear a single bang as it closes, then nothing further. if this cenario works, that will tell you how to modify the system for better peac and quiet. Good luck. Joe |
#7
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
" wrote:
Hello, quick question for the experts out there. I live in the midwest and have a sump pump in the basement. PVC from sump pump runs up the basement wall and across a 10 foot ceiling section and connects directly to the city sewer system underground (I think). Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. Replaced that myself. Still a lot of vibration. Had a plumber come out...he recommended a new sump pump as our home is 12-years old. Plumber installed that, and told me to secure the ceiling PVC better to remove vibration. Winter came and I forgot about it. ;( Now that we've had some thaws, vibration came back worse than ever. I got some hangers and secured the PVC as solid as possible. Now, the vibration is localized to the check valve, and it lasts like 30-45 seconds after the pump cycles. No banging, just loud vibration. I had saved the original check valve, which the plumber had said was still good. I put that back on, and all was quiet, until I noticed it was leaking around the upper rubber flanges. I tightened it down and now it's the same...massive vibration localized to the check valve after a cycle, lasting around 30-45 seconds. Any ideas what's happening? Be sure you have a small hole drilled in the sump discharge pipe to prevent air lock. http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/supuinpr.html "Drill a relief hole (1/8" or 3/16" diameter) in the discharge pipe. This hole should be located below the floor line between the pump discharge and the check valve. Unless such a relief hole is provided a bottom intake pump could "air lock" and will not pump water even though it will run." |
#8
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
The "relief" hole is bunk. not needed.
-- Steve Barker "Ermalina" wrote in message ... Be sure you have a small hole drilled in the sump discharge pipe to prevent air lock. http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/supuinpr.html "Drill a relief hole (1/8" or 3/16" diameter) in the discharge pipe. This hole should be located below the floor line between the pump discharge and the check valve. Unless such a relief hole is provided a bottom intake pump could "air lock" and will not pump water even though it will run." |
#9
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
You know the vibration excess noise could all have one CAUSE!
What if the dischgarge line is somehow blocked? Then the discharge water pressure back makes the check valve bang when pump shuts off? Creates your new vibration noise? If I were you I would connect a garden hose to the discharge line to make certain it passes water easily! Or one day it may stop completely and flood your basement |
#10
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mar 12, 3:33 pm, " wrote:
You know the vibration excess noise could all have one CAUSE! What if the dischgarge line is somehow blocked? Then the discharge water pressure back makes the check valve bang when pump shuts off? Creates your new vibration noise? If I were you I would connect a garden hose to the discharge line to make certain it passes water easily! Or one day it may stop completely and flood your basement I did think of that. I'm "tellling myself" that's not the case since when I took the check valve out to assess the situation last night, some water obviously came down out of the blank PVC end, but not an inordinate amount. I'm assuming that given the PVC travels up the wall and then bends and goes up one more time, that area will have some water post-cycle in it...that's about how much came out. Anyway, I was telling myself that, and assumed there'd be some obvious answer here on these boards or on the internet somewhere. That is obviously not the case, and I'm beginning to think I need to hire a plumber to assess the situation. It wasn't this way before, so something somewhere is messing with my previous state of happiness. Thanks for your thoughts! |
#11
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:19:20 -0700, "dan2590 wrote:
On Mar 12, 3:33 pm, " wrote: You know the vibration excess noise could all have one CAUSE! What if the dischgarge line is somehow blocked? Then the discharge water pressure back makes the check valve bang when pump shuts off? Creates your new vibration noise? If I were you I would connect a garden hose to the discharge line to make certain it passes water easily! Or one day it may stop completely and flood your basement I did think of that. I'm "tellling myself" that's not the case since when I took the check valve out to assess the situation last night, some water obviously came down out of the blank PVC end, but not an inordinate amount. I'm assuming that given the PVC travels up the wall and then bends and goes up one more time, that area will have some water post-cycle in it...that's about how much came out. Anyway, I was telling myself that, and assumed there'd be some obvious answer here on these boards or on the internet somewhere. That is obviously not the case, and I'm beginning to think I need to hire a plumber to assess the situation. It wasn't this way before, so something somewhere is messing with my previous state of happiness. Thanks for your thoughts! I gave you the answer. did you not see my post? I went through great lengths to rid myself of that noise and in the end it was just the pipe attachment. And now that you have a new pump, which I bet is stronger, your pipes are going to work themselves loose that much faster if you dont tighten them down snugly. Its not the check valve, its the pressure drop. The pressure increase caused by the water flowing in reverse and closing the check valve is nothing compared to the pressure drop when that pump shuts off. I bet you can see your pipes flex when the pump kicks on in certain places. go ahead and remove the valve and see what happens. Let us know. Presently I have 0 noise and a much stronger pump too. I would post pictures but I dont think newsgroups take em. |
#12
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:31:11 -0700, "dan2590 wrote:
Hello, quick question for the experts out there. I live in the midwest and have a sump pump in the basement. PVC from sump pump runs up the basement wall and across a 10 foot ceiling section and connects directly to the city sewer system underground (I think). Some communities have separate 'sewage' pipe from drain water pipe. In this case this is legal. Some communities don't require sump pumps, in this case its probably legal. Otherwise, probably not a legal connection. Not to mention what happens if water flows the other way... Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. Replaced that myself. Still a lot of vibration. Had a plumber come out...he recommended a new sump pump as our home is 12-years old. Plumber installed that, and told me to secure the ceiling PVC better to remove vibration. Winter came and I forgot about it. ;( Likely just your pipes working themselves loose. All you required was to tighten the pipes brackets again. I had the same problem and replaced various parts, but in the end it was just in fact a few 'strap' brackets had snapped. I installed new ones and no more banging. I also installed my own make shift 'water hammer' arrestor. Which probably don't do much but it was a nice idea, and I put a cleanout on it so I can snake the pipe without having to remove the pump... I don't think you needed a new sump pump at all. Maybe take that one out and clean it a bit. If any thing buy a new one to have on standby, but if it ain't broke... Now that we've had some thaws, vibration came back worse than ever. I got some hangers and secured the PVC as solid as possible. Now, the vibration is localized to the check valve, and it lasts like 30-45 seconds after the pump cycles. No banging, just loud vibration. Well I do recommend tightning the straps to stop the banging. However, you now have a different pump which probably pushes a different amount of water, so your sound will be different. Especially if you got a 'more powerful' one which may not have been needed and only will be noisier. I had saved the original check valve, which the plumber had said was still good. I put that back on, and all was quiet, until I noticed it was leaking around the upper rubber flanges. I tightened it down and now it's the same...massive vibration localized to the check valve after a cycle, lasting around 30-45 seconds. Any ideas what's happening? Its the signature of your new probably more powerful pump. |
#13
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On 12 Mar 2007 08:31:11 -0700, "
wrote: Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. I don't have a check valve, but was considering putting one in. What say you all, do they all make a bang at the end of the cycle? Or even a noise? I was considering instead of a battery backup sump pump getting that water powered thing, a bit cheaper but but more work to install. If the check valve is going to go BANG, I would rather get the water powered thing. |
#14
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mar 12, 1:16 pm, mm wrote:
On 12 Mar 2007 08:31:11 -0700, " wrote: Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. I don't have a check valve, but was considering putting one in. What say you all, do they all make a bang at the end of the cycle? Or even a noise? I was considering instead of a battery backup sump pump getting that water powered thing, a bit cheaper but but more work to install. If the check valve is going to go BANG, I would rather get the water powered thing. No, ours originally was quiet, and the neigbors I've asked are quiet as well. Something changed to make it bad in the first place. I wouldn't make a decision based on a check valve making noise in my case. Frankly, I didn't know this existed until last summer, it was normal-sounding prior to that. FWIW a neighbor has a backup water powered thing, and he feels it's a good solution. |
#15
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On 12 Mar 2007 11:33:26 -0700, "
wrote: On Mar 12, 1:16 pm, mm wrote: On 12 Mar 2007 08:31:11 -0700, " wrote: Our sump had been making a BANGING noise at the end of each cycle. Reading up about that, I determined it must be a bad check valve. I don't have a check valve, but was considering putting one in. What say you all, do they all make a bang at the end of the cycle? Or even a noise? I was considering instead of a battery backup sump pump getting that water powered thing, a bit cheaper but but more work to install. If the check valve is going to go BANG, I would rather get the water powered thing. No, ours originally was quiet, and the neigbors I've asked are quiet as well. Something changed to make it bad in the first place. I wouldn't make a decision based on a check valve making noise in my case. Frankly, I didn't know this existed until last summer, it was normal-sounding prior to that. FWIW a neighbor has a backup water powered thing, and he feels it's a good solution. Because of the extra installation work required, especially in my house, it's tied, which I will get, so I'm looking for anything to break the tie. I found one on ebay where it said that he put in some other backup sump pump or something like that, so he removed the water-powered one, but it works. The bidding was over, but would you have believed this story? It's not like that space is useful for much. If I had one in, I wouldn't take it out. |
#16
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:23:13 -0400, mm wrote:
No, ours originally was quiet, and the neigbors I've asked are quiet as well. Something changed to make it bad in the first place. I wouldn't make a decision based on a check valve making noise in my case. Frankly, I didn't know this existed until last summer, it was normal-sounding prior to that. FWIW a neighbor has a backup water powered thing, and he feels it's a good solution. Because of the extra installation work required, especially in my house, it's tied, which I will get, so I'm looking for anything to break the tie. I found one on ebay where it said that he put in some other backup sump pump or something like that, so he removed the water-powered one, but it works. The bidding was over, but would you have believed this story? It's not like that space is useful for much. If I had one in, I wouldn't take it out. damn sure wouldnt. plumbers removed my neighbors water backup and put in a 2nd electrical pump. Not even a backup pump. Those idiots need to be sued. no room for 2 electric pumps with arm style floats. Im disgusted by it. anyway, this has nothing to do with the water hammer. which I think is just pipes working themselves loose. |
#17
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:10:27 -0500, "dnoyeB" wrote:
I found one on ebay where it said that he put in some other backup sump pump or something like that, so he removed the water-powered one, but it works. The bidding was over, but would you have believed this story? It's not like that space is useful for much. If I had one in, I wouldn't take it out. damn sure wouldnt. plumbers removed my neighbors water backup and put in a 2nd electrical pump. Not even a backup pump. Those idiots need to be But this sort of confirms the ebay guy's story. If your neighbor's plumbers could be so stupid, so could an owner! sued. no room for 2 electric pumps with arm style floats. Im disgusted by it. I agree. |
#18
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Sump Pump Check Valve Vibrates
On 12 Mar 2007 11:33:26 -0700, "
wrote: No, ours originally was quiet, and the neigbors I've asked are quiet By the way, thanks for getting back to me on this. Much appreciated. as well. Something changed to make it bad in the first place. I wouldn't make a decision based on a check valve making noise in my case. Frankly, I didn't know this existed until last summer, it was normal-sounding prior to that. FWIW a neighbor has a backup water powered thing, and he feels it's a good solution. |
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