Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

If you don't have any luck with the way you want to do it you can
always go with X10.

Here's the link:

http://x10.com/homepage.htm

It has the ability to turn all lights on and off or in any combination
you want.

And it's pretty simple to hook up.

Hope this helps.

Sometimes these schemes become more complicated than practical. Check into
Lutron "Graphik Eye" scene lighting controls




"trbo20" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You can't do it with regular over the counter switches. You can use
X-10 or a low voltage relay system.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:31:26 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You can't do it with regular over the counter switches. You can use
X-10 or a low voltage relay system.

X10 can be highly unreliable at times. The relays are OK.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)

On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?



"mm" wrote in message
news
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.



"mm" wrote in message
news
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

I don't know if it's just me, I'm having a bad hair day, but I don't see the
isolation. Forgetting about the load, just one circuit, three lights, each
individually controlled and all three turned "on" by master switch. Forget
about the "off". Explain how you'd wire it




"mm" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.



"mm" wrote in message
news
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:42:57 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

I don't know if it's just me, I'm having a bad hair day, but I don't see the
isolation. Forgetting about the load, just one circuit, three lights, each
individually controlled and all three turned "on" by master switch. Forget
about the "off". Explain how you'd wire it

Ack. You're right.

I guess I've been spending too much time with DC where diodes could
isolate one zone from another.

Maybe it's a bad day for me too.

I apologize.




"mm" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.



"mm" wrote in message
news On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

No problem, I could have sworn I made a similar circuit a while back with
three way switches, but nothings working now and I'm getting a headache. I
think I feel better now that I'm not alone



"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:42:57 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

I don't know if it's just me, I'm having a bad hair day, but I don't see
the
isolation. Forgetting about the load, just one circuit, three lights, each
individually controlled and all three turned "on" by master switch. Forget
about the "off". Explain how you'd wire it

Ack. You're right.

I guess I've been spending too much time with DC where diodes could
isolate one zone from another.

Maybe it's a bad day for me too.

I apologize.




"mm" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.



"mm" wrote in message
news On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

You have to do it with switches. Relays takes the fun out of it




"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:29:33 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.


Think this might work?

http://i16.tinypic.com/33vondk.gif

The masters would have to be triple throw.

I had to cut off the last set of switches to be able to see the
labels.

You get the idea.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:28:51 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

No problem, I could have sworn I made a similar circuit a while back with
three way switches,

I just get jealous when I see people come up with clever ideas. Most
of the time, I'm pretty much just meat and potatoes.


but nothings working now and I'm getting a headache. I
think I feel better now that I'm not alone

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:29:33 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.


Think this might work?

http://i16.tinypic.com/33vondk.gif

The masters would have to be triple throw.

I had to cut off the last set of switches to be able to see the
labels.

You get the idea.

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

Yes. A very small electric current in a nerve cell causes a chemical
reaction which leads to the contraction of a muscle in your finger,
operating the switch.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).


The first sketch I did had AC in mind. Having DC would make things
simpler. With DC, you could use the same type master as you have for
the single switches. You could use diodes instead of a triple throw
switch.

I think most of the relays for the home are 24V AC/DC. How about this
one?

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rq1xk9.gif

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:29 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).


The first sketch I did had AC in mind. Having DC would make things
simpler. With DC, you could use the same type master as you have for
the single switches. You could use diodes instead of a triple throw
switch.

I think most of the relays for the home are 24V AC/DC. How about this
one?

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rq1xk9.gif


Assuming you want to be able to control the lights individually, that
circuit will NOT work. The problem should be obvious, the coils for
one light are in parallel with the coils for the other one. The
correct function of the diodes is to keep them separate (which those
can't do).

The 4 individual (not master) buttons can be connected directly to the
coils, but you'll need a diode between each master button and each
coil (total 4 diodes). This prevents current from one of the
non-master buttons from operating the other light's relay. Your
circuit does not have this protection.

Diodes are needed for any button that controls more than 1 relay. The
number of diodes is equal to he number of relays controlled (here 2 +
2 = 4).

BTW, diodes don't cost much, and are easy to experiment with. I always
have a few 1N4001 diodes (50V 1A).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:29 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).


The first sketch I did had AC in mind. Having DC would make things
simpler. With DC, you could use the same type master as you have for
the single switches. You could use diodes instead of a triple throw
switch.

I think most of the relays for the home are 24V AC/DC. How about this
one?

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rq1xk9.gif



I forgot a few diodes.

http://i17.tinypic.com/2nk5d90.gif

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:04:53 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:29:33 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.


Think this might work?

http://i16.tinypic.com/33vondk.gif

The masters would have to be triple throw.

I had to cut off the last set of switches to be able to see the
labels.

You get the idea.


That one should work, but I'd prefer doing it with diodes (It just
takes 2 per light).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:12:53 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:29 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).


The first sketch I did had AC in mind. Having DC would make things
simpler. With DC, you could use the same type master as you have for
the single switches. You could use diodes instead of a triple throw
switch.

I think most of the relays for the home are 24V AC/DC. How about this
one?

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rq1xk9.gif



I forgot a few diodes.

http://i17.tinypic.com/2nk5d90.gif

The relays are still shorted together, so ANY switch will operate all
relays.

Note that if a diode is connected to a button (as you have done), it
will perform no useful function unless at least 2 diodes are so
connected.

The shorts between coils should be obvious. They're the vertical lines
in the diagram.

If you do it right, you'll need 4 diodes (for 2 lights). They'll be in
the vertical lines, not the horizontal ones.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:23:07 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:12:53 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:29 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).


The first sketch I did had AC in mind. Having DC would make things
simpler. With DC, you could use the same type master as you have for
the single switches. You could use diodes instead of a triple throw
switch.

I think most of the relays for the home are 24V AC/DC. How about this
one?

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rq1xk9.gif



I forgot a few diodes.

http://i17.tinypic.com/2nk5d90.gif

The relays are still shorted together, so ANY switch will operate all
relays.

Note that if a diode is connected to a button (as you have done), it
will perform no useful function unless at least 2 diodes are so
connected.

The shorts between coils should be obvious. They're the vertical lines
in the diagram.

If you do it right, you'll need 4 diodes (for 2 lights). They'll be in
the vertical lines, not the horizontal ones.


How about this?

http://i16.tinypic.com/484hr1h.gif

On Mar 11, 5:58 pm, mm wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

Thank you, Mark and everyone else, for the in-depth exploration of my
project. I think after reviewing the responses, I'll probably just go
ahead and stick with three independent circuits; as diodes and relays
are really above my level of comfort. If I put all three switches in
one box, the person entering the room can just karate chop all three
at the same time.

Cheers!
-Tom

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:44:00 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:23:07 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:12:53 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:47:29 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:42:34 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 12:38:56 -0700, "Terry" wrote:

On Mar 11, 2:22 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:





Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

That would be a 3PDT (3 pole double throw) switch. I don't know what
else to call it.

That switch is 3 electrically isolated but mechanically connected 3way
switches. Electrically you have 3 separate 3way circuits.


Kind of like a relay?

One way he could do it would be to use 3 latching relays and 4 on/off
momentary contact low voltage switches. (one for the master)





I seem to remember that relays work best with DC control voltage (AC
can be switched). I suppose you need a rectifier and diodes (to
isolate the buttons so they don't ALL become master).


The first sketch I did had AC in mind. Having DC would make things
simpler. With DC, you could use the same type master as you have for
the single switches. You could use diodes instead of a triple throw
switch.

I think most of the relays for the home are 24V AC/DC. How about this
one?

http://i15.tinypic.com/2rq1xk9.gif



I forgot a few diodes.

http://i17.tinypic.com/2nk5d90.gif

The relays are still shorted together, so ANY switch will operate all
relays.

Note that if a diode is connected to a button (as you have done), it
will perform no useful function unless at least 2 diodes are so
connected.

The shorts between coils should be obvious. They're the vertical lines
in the diagram.

If you do it right, you'll need 4 diodes (for 2 lights). They'll be in
the vertical lines, not the horizontal ones.


How about this?

http://i16.tinypic.com/484hr1h.gif

That's the way I'd do it. If you add a third relay, you need 2 more
diodes connected to the nodes that come just after the master buttons.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On 12 Mar 2007 07:09:21 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

On Mar 11, 5:58 pm, mm wrote:
On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.

You mean, turn only the one that was on when all this started, 4 lines
ago, right? Below, I do almost everything you want with just two
extra On/Off switches.

It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

You could do this with x-10 or relays, but if all of the switches will
be in the same location, it would be far far easier to either forget
it, or two have two additioinal switches in addition to the three ones
for each zone.

Even if they are not all in the same location, one master switch
could be run in parallel and turn everything ON no matter the position
of the 3 zone switches, and the other could be run in series and turn
everything OFF no matter what the position of the zone switches.

You would have to decide which should have priority, the master ON
switch or the master OFF switch. If you planned carefully, you might
be able to wire it so that changing the priority later was not a lot
of work.

And if you wanted the master switch without priority to win on a
particular day, you might have to flip the other master switch also.
Not a lot of work, and those two switches could almost certainly be
put next to each other.

If this is acceptable and you need more details, post back.

Thank you, Mark and everyone else, for the in-depth exploration of my
project. I think after reviewing the responses, I'll probably just go
ahead and stick with three independent circuits; as diodes and relays
are really above my level of comfort. If I put all three switches in
one box, the person entering the room can just karate chop all three
at the same time.

Cheers!
-Tom

That'd work, although 3-way (SPDT) switches are TOGGLES. That is you
have to see the light to know what flipping the switch will do. Also,
using diodes simplifies control from multiple points (to add another
control point, you just need more low-voltage wiring, and you don't
have to rewire any existing switches).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

trbo20 wrote:
Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?


I don't think master-off can be done without relays (or X10).

Master-on can be easily done for all lights on a single circuit:
[view with a fixed width font]

3-way switches
H--+----------------+-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 1
| +-----------------------O
| | |
+--O O--+ |
M | |
| | ON
| +-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 2
+-----------------------O
| | OFF/MASTER
| |
| |
more zones

M is the master switch (single pole switch)
Z - add 4 way switches at this point for equivalent 3-way
multiposition control

--
bud--

Terry wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:29:33 -0500, mm
wrote:


On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:


Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.


Think this might work?

http://i16.tinypic.com/33vondk.gif


Nice diagram. In technicolor even.

The masters would have to be triple throw.

I had to cut off the last set of switches to be able to see the
labels.

You get the idea.



Switching with remote control relays, the same as your diagram, used to
be moderately common. The advantage was the control voltage was all 24V
Class 2 and was wired like doorbells or thermostats. A light could be
relatively cheaply controlled from many widely separated points. And,
unlike a 3-way, the switch had an on and off position. Some of the parts
are at:
http://www.dale-electric.com/pdf/page011.pdf
With some of the switches and relays shown, the switch has a pilot light
to indicate if the circuit was on or off. Relays mount through a 1/2"
knockout with the low voltage control wiring outside box. Sometimes many
relays were mounted in a relatively large relay box shown in the pdf.

I would, like Mark, use diodes and single pole pushbuttons. This was
also done with the low voltage systems. I doesn't work if too many
relays are being switched at once because the transformer gets loaded
down. Sierra made a 'relay' that with a push of a button would motor
drive a wiper past contacts to turn on (or different contacts to turn
off) 24 (IIRC) relays. One could put a push button switch in the bedroom
to turn off all the lights, or turn them all on in an emergency. If 24
isn't enough, the last contact could start another 'relay'.

Some systems used 2 wire relays - push a button to turn on and the same
button to turn off.

This is a stock system, except for the diodes, that will do what the OP
wants to (even if it does take the fun out of it).

--
bud--

Another trick that could be useful (but not particularly for this
thread) - with a conventional 3-way, a single pole switch connected
between the travelers is a master-on.

--
bud--

Boy that's to funny. Over the weekend, I couldn't for the life of me, make
that circuit work, and like I said to mm, I was sure I'd done a master
switch setup on some floodlights a while back, but for some reason the brain
was not functioning. I feel stupid now that I'm looking at your diagram. The
mind is a terrible thing to loose





"Bud--" wrote in message
.. .
trbo20 wrote:
Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?


I don't think master-off can be done without relays (or X10).

Master-on can be easily done for all lights on a single circuit:
[view with a fixed width font]

3-way switches
H--+----------------+-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 1
| +-----------------------O
| | |
+--O O--+ |
M | |
| | ON
| +-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 2
+-----------------------O
| | OFF/MASTER
| |
| |
more zones

M is the master switch (single pole switch)
Z - add 4 way switches at this point for equivalent 3-way
multiposition control

--
bud--

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:36:00 -0600, Bud--
wrote:

Terry wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:29:33 -0500, mm
wrote:


On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:15:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:


Are you planning this with line carrier switches like x-10 or standard
switches?

I just meant standard switches. The op didn't say anything about the
current demands are for 3 "zones", and I admit I didn't consider that.


Think this might work?

http://i16.tinypic.com/33vondk.gif


Nice diagram. In technicolor even.

The masters would have to be triple throw.

I had to cut off the last set of switches to be able to see the
labels.

You get the idea.



Switching with remote control relays, the same as your diagram, used to
be moderately common. The advantage was the control voltage was all 24V
Class 2 and was wired like doorbells or thermostats. A light could be
relatively cheaply controlled from many widely separated points. And,
unlike a 3-way, the switch had an on and off position. Some of the parts
are at:
http://www.dale-electric.com/pdf/page011.pdf
With some of the switches and relays shown, the switch has a pilot light
to indicate if the circuit was on or off. Relays mount through a 1/2"
knockout with the low voltage control wiring outside box. Sometimes many
relays were mounted in a relatively large relay box shown in the pdf.

I would, like Mark, use diodes and single pole pushbuttons. This was
also done with the low voltage systems. I doesn't work if too many
relays are being switched at once because the transformer gets loaded
down. Sierra made a 'relay' that with a push of a button would motor
drive a wiper past contacts to turn on (or different contacts to turn
off) 24 (IIRC) relays. One could put a push button switch in the bedroom
to turn off all the lights, or turn them all on in an emergency. If 24
isn't enough, the last contact could start another 'relay'.


I have seen one of those in a big library building. It made it easy to
operate all the light switches at once.

Some systems used 2 wire relays - push a button to turn on and the same
button to turn off.


Separate buttons do give you the advantage of not having to check all
the lights just to make sure they're off.

This is a stock system, except for the diodes, that will do what the OP
wants to (even if it does take the fun out of it).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:39:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Boy that's to funny. Over the weekend, I couldn't for the life of me, make
that circuit work, and like I said to mm, I was sure I'd done a master
switch setup on some floodlights a while back, but for some reason the brain
was not functioning. I feel stupid now that I'm looking at your diagram. The
mind is a terrible thing to loose


It's even more terrible to LOSE.





"Bud--" wrote in message
. ..
trbo20 wrote:
Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?


I don't think master-off can be done without relays (or X10).

Master-on can be easily done for all lights on a single circuit:
[view with a fixed width font]

3-way switches
H--+----------------+-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 1
| +-----------------------O
| | |
+--O O--+ |
M | |
| | ON
| +-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 2
+-----------------------O
| | OFF/MASTER
| |
| |
more zones

M is the master switch (single pole switch)
Z - add 4 way switches at this point for equivalent 3-way
multiposition control

--
bud--

That just shows it's still lost




"Harry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:39:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Boy that's to funny. Over the weekend, I couldn't for the life of me, make
that circuit work, and like I said to mm, I was sure I'd done a master
switch setup on some floodlights a while back, but for some reason the
brain
was not functioning. I feel stupid now that I'm looking at your diagram.
The
mind is a terrible thing to loose


It's even more terrible to LOSE.





"Bud--" wrote in message
...
trbo20 wrote:
Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?


I don't think master-off can be done without relays (or X10).

Master-on can be easily done for all lights on a single circuit:
[view with a fixed width font]

3-way switches
H--+----------------+-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 1
| +-----------------------O
| | |
+--O O--+ |
M | |
| | ON
| +-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 2
+-----------------------O
| | OFF/MASTER
| |
| |
more zones

M is the master switch (single pole switch)
Z - add 4 way switches at this point for equivalent 3-way
multiposition control

--
bud--

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:13:56 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

That just shows it's still lost


What's lost CAN be found again.




"Harry" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:39:02 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Boy that's to funny. Over the weekend, I couldn't for the life of me, make
that circuit work, and like I said to mm, I was sure I'd done a master
switch setup on some floodlights a while back, but for some reason the
brain
was not functioning. I feel stupid now that I'm looking at your diagram.
The
mind is a terrible thing to loose


It's even more terrible to LOSE.





"Bud--" wrote in message
T...
trbo20 wrote:
Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?


I don't think master-off can be done without relays (or X10).

Master-on can be easily done for all lights on a single circuit:
[view with a fixed width font]

3-way switches
H--+----------------+-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 1
| +-----------------------O
| | |
+--O O--+ |
M | |
| | ON
| +-----------------O
| | Z x------- hot to zone 2
+-----------------------O
| | OFF/MASTER
| |
| |
more zones

M is the master switch (single pole switch)
Z - add 4 way switches at this point for equivalent 3-way
multiposition control

--
bud--


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

I know we have already talked you out of using low voltage controls.

I am just posting a updated drawing once more since I have little to
do and am trying to learn TinyCad.

http://i9.tinypic.com/42jo1f8.gif

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:56:10 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On 11 Mar 2007 07:08:12 -0700, "trbo20" wrote:

Hi All

I am getting ready to update my largish family room and am considering
how to approach the lighting. I'd like to install flush mounted
fluorescents, halogen task lights, wall sconces and a switched outlet
in three separate lighting zones so that the room can be lit according
to its use.

In my switch box, I'd also like to have one master switch that turns
all three zones on or off regardless of the state of any of the other
zones. For example, if zones 1 and 2 are off and 3 is on, flipping
the master would turn on all 3. Flipping the master again would turn
off all three. Then flipping zone 3 once more would turn it back on.
It's a 3-part 3-way if you will.

Can this be done? I'm having a hard time wrapping my puny non-
electrician brain around it. If this is done, what's it called so I
can search for the wiring diagram?

I know we have already talked you out of using low voltage controls.

I am just posting a updated drawing once more since I have little to
do and am trying to learn TinyCad.

http://i9.tinypic.com/42jo1f8.gif

Looks good, except for one thing. With the diodes turned that way,
you'd need a NEGATIVE power supply. The arrow on the diode symbol
indicates conventional (positive to negative) current flow.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster