I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.

Ook wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.



sure, unhook it from the panel, get yourself a tone generator and probe,
and knock yourself out.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

First thing I would do is recheck the wires at the breakers with a test lamp
or any meter that you actually make contact with. Any tester that works off
of an electrical field, may not work accurately inside of a panel. If indeed
all breakers are good, check the outlets to see if its the hot or neutral
that's dead, and then check connections at any working outlets or switches
nearby the dead ones








"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead
circuit and no idea where it gets fed from.

If it's no contact, then it's probably not accurate to use in the panel.
It'll pickup a signal from the wire next to the dead one. Get a test light
or make one. Or use an analog volt meter.

--
Steve Barker




"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead
circuit and no idea where it gets fed from.

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:54:14 -0800, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.


If you have a circuit tester, what lights did you get?

tom @ www.Consolidated-Loans.info

Ook wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.



Actually, a good quality no-contact electric sensor will read behind
sheetrock pretty well. At least my LiveWire GVD-505A does. I've used it
a few times to trace wires through ceilings and walls.

You seem to have two possibilities: 1) the circuit is broken between the
breaker and the first box where it branches out or 2) the circuit is
broken in that first box itself.

In the first case you are going to have a nasty job ahead of you and
will probably wind up tearing into walls and ceilings to fix it (or
paying someone else to do it for you). Luckily, in my experience anyway,
this is the less likely problem.

Virtually every time I check a problem like this it is a matter of a
wire coming loose at the first outlet/switch before the dead section.
This is often caused by the original installer using the back-stab
connections which, true to their name, come back after a few years and
stab you in the back. If it truly is the entire circuit which is dead
I'd start looking in the box which is physically closest to the breaker
as that is the most likely location since it usually results in shorter
runs and makes the job cheaper.

Oh, and one other thing I just though of: if you have any GFCI (ground
fault circuit interrupters) in your house, check each of them. I
actually found a house once where someone looking for a convenient
source of power tapped off of a GFCI in a bathroom and fed it to the
lights and ceiling fans in two adjacent bedrooms. It took a lot of head
scratching to finally figure out than a tripped GFCI killed the power.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:54:14 -0800, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a

I don't understand the word "even". How else would you know the
breakers are good without testing if the wires are hot? At least the
breaker that feeds the dead outlets.

nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm )

Hmmm. Just hold the probe by the plastic and don't stand so that
you're about to fall into the box, and you can use a probe. If it
wasn't hard to connect, I very well might take the black probe and use
a wire with alligator clips on both ends and clip it to a neutral,
while I was testing the hots. Make sure the dangling alligator
clip/probe connection doesn't touch anything. You can wrap a paper
napkin and a rubberband around it so it won't touch anything.

, and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.

On Mar 1, 3:54 pm, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at
zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.

What was done or being done before this failure occurred?

Spontaneous failures are suspect.

Does the breaker that supplies this wall of outlets supply any other
outlets that are still working?

How old is the house? What kind of outlets (backstab or screw
terminals)?

I would suspect a bad connection somewhere in the daisy chain.

Loosen (slightly) & re-tighten the connections at the
breakers....sometimes you get enough current to work the meter but not
enough to drive a load.

Similar situation ocurred at a friend's house.......a bunch of bedroom
outlets dead, no breakers triped.

I asked "what was everyone doing, what had they done before the
failure".......daughter vacuumed her room.

Which outlet did she use? .......killed the circuit, removed outlet,
backstabber!
Used the side screws, re-installed.....re-set breaker

Everything worked

cheers
Bob

On Mar 1, 6:54 pm, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at
zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.

Try to pick the outlet that would be the closest to the panel. Pull
it out and check there. If not, try your second guess. If you don't
get it on the second try, I would try to find something closer before
moving away.

A lot of the times when all the breakers are hot leaving the panel the
first outlet that is dead is the cause. It is most likely a loose
wire or a bad outlet.

Also, you can make sure the tester you are using is giving you a
correct reading and not an induced reading by cutting off the breaker
you are testing. I am guessing your tester is fine.

In article , "Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot.

There's one other simple thing to check, while you have that panel open: make
sure that all your *neutral* wires are secured into the neutral bus bar.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
Ook Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.



I would remove the cover plate from the outlet that is the first one
connected to the breaker box; if you're not sure which it is, just
make a logical guess and check any that might be the first. It is
much more likely that the fault is at a connection to an outlet or in
a junction box than at some random point iside a wall or ceiling (Of
course, that can happen too) Remove the outlet retaining screws from
the box and _carefully_ pull the outlet out while it is still connected.
If you are not comfortable doing this and don't know which breaker
controls the outlet, you can shut off the main breaker or all breakers,
then turn them back on after the outlet is accessible. Use your meter
or tester to check for voltage at the outlet terminal screws. If the outlet
is connected with "backstabbed" wires you've probably found the problem
right there.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:54:14 -0800, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a

I don't understand the word "even". How else would you know the
breakers are good without testing if the wires are hot? At least the
breaker that feeds the dead outlets.

Actually, I got out my old trusty analog meter, and manually tested every
wire coming out of each breaker. I've been using meters for 25 years, and to
this day I'll still take an analog meter over a digital one. It doesn't take
much leakage to give a false reading on a digital meter with an extremely
high input impedance. Anyhow, all of the wires coming out of each breaker
are hot.

So, I went to a live outlet next to a dead one. Disturbingly, the live
outlet shows about 30v between it's own neutral and ground. I didn't put a
load on it to see what would happen.All of the grounds and neutral wires
share a common buss at the breaker box. The ground wires in every box I've
examined are just twisted together, no wire nuts, no screws, so it doesn't
surprise me that by the time it gets to this outlet (on the far end of the
house from the breaker box) the ground isn't really "ground" anymore.
Anyhow, the dead outlet has 0v between it's hot and the neutral of the live
outlet. I get 120v between the live hot and the neutral of the dead outlet.

I found a wire in the attic area that comes up out of the wall where one end
of the chain of dead outlets are. And it vanishes into another wall that I
don't have access to. I tested all outlets and switches nearby, all are
good, no dead hot wires leading out of any of them. I guess I'll have to
keep testing more and more outlets/switches from that point on...the bad
spot has to be somewhere....the wire has to go somewhere.

What was done or being done before this failure occurred?

Nothing. Poof, it went dead.

Does the breaker that supplies this wall of outlets supply any other
outlets that are still working?

No idea. The breaker box isn't labeled, and the wiring is a rat's nest of
wires running here and there and everywhere. This chain could be fed or feed
from about half of the outlets in the house. I have no clue which breaker
feeds the dead chain.

How old is the house? What kind of outlets (backstab or screw terminals)?

58 years However, it was completely rewired 8 years ago, and the breaker box
was replaced. All outlets I've seen so far were screw terminals.

So, I went to a live outlet next to a dead one. Disturbingly, the live
outlet shows about 30v between it's own neutral and ground. I didn't put a
load on it to see what would happen.All of the grounds and neutral wires
share a common buss at the breaker box. The ground wires in every box I've
examined are just twisted together, no wire nuts, no screws, so it doesn't
surprise me that by the time it gets to this outlet (on the far end of the
house from the breaker box) the ground isn't really "ground" anymore.

It surprises me. Even if the grounds are just twisted together, there
should be virtually no current flowing in the ground, so all grounds
should be at the same potential. There probably *is* current flowing in
neutral, but all the neutral connections should have some sort of
pressure connection, so that should generate a few volts of drop at
most. There's no way you should ever be able to get 30 V between ground
and neutral in a properly-wired system.

Either you've got substantial current in the ground (which you can
probably find by unplugging loads one by one) or you've got a bad
connection in the neutral. Probably the latter. On the "live outlet",
with 30 V between neutral and ground, what are the other two voltages?
If hot-neutral is 90 V but hot-ground is 120, you've got a bad neutral
connection. If hot-neutral is 120 V and hot-ground is 90, you've got
ground current (and a bad connection in ground).

Anyhow, the dead outlet has 0v between it's hot and the neutral of the live
outlet. I get 120v between the live hot and the neutral of the dead outlet.

This suggests that the dead outlet hot is dead, which you'd already
guessed. The dead outlet's neutral is still functioning.

I found a wire in the attic area that comes up out of the wall where one end
of the chain of dead outlets are. And it vanishes into another wall that I
don't have access to. I tested all outlets and switches nearby, all are
good, no dead hot wires leading out of any of them. I guess I'll have to
keep testing more and more outlets/switches from that point on...the bad
spot has to be somewhere....the wire has to go somewhere.

Start taking off switch and outlet covers. Unless somebody has done
something Really Bad and buried a junction box inside a wall, all of the
interconnections in this branch circuit are inside boxes you can get to.
The bad connection is almost certainly in one of them; you just need to
figure out which one. It's likely the one closest to the breaker
panel.

No idea. The breaker box isn't labeled, and the wiring is a rat's nest of
wires running here and there and everywhere. This chain could be fed or feed
from about half of the outlets in the house. I have no clue which breaker
feeds the dead chain.

You can figure this out, given time. You can certainly figure out what
breaker all of the non-dead outlets and light switches are on, and
figure out approximately where every circuit runs in the house. Once
done, which circuit(s) might the dead ones be connected to?

Dave

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...

No idea. The breaker box isn't labeled, and the wiring is a rat's nest of
wires running here and there and everywhere. This chain could be fed or
feed
from about half of the outlets in the house. I have no clue which breaker
feeds the dead chain.

Shut off all the breakers but one and check which circuits are hot. Make
your self a circuit map and this should give you some clue as to which
breaker feeds which group of plugs. Continue until you know what goes where.

Also do not forget to look at wall switches, it is possible that one of them
is feeding the chain and someone flicked the switch that doesn't turn on a
light.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

On Mar 1, 6:54 pm, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at
zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote:
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead circuit
and no idea where it gets fed from.

in buffalo ny: it's not a code requirement, but each switchplate and
outlet cover plate needs a number corresponding to the number stamped
into the metal of the panel by each circuit breaker. using a permanent
marker is best.
i have found odd low voltages of AC at steady and measurable volts but
negligible amperage in our buildings in 2-wire old wiring, if measured
to ground. sometimes motors or compressors have voltage leakage.
melting snow can contribute causing wet wooden floors; that can
provide odd paths for grounded BX. search carefully for voltage leaks
when prowling wet or damp areas work with a helper. remember you can
easily use a radio or two to make sound for a remote indicator when
you are verifying circuit numbers.
[use the kind that actually goes ON when plugged into a live
outlet. ]

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:54:14 -0800, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all
along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a

I don't understand the word "even". How else would you know the
breakers are good without testing if the wires are hot? At least the
breaker that feeds the dead outlets.

Actually, I got out my old trusty analog meter, and manually tested every
wire coming out of each breaker. I've been using meters for 25 years, and
to this day I'll still take an analog meter over a digital one. It doesn't
take much leakage to give a false reading on a digital meter with an
extremely high input impedance. Anyhow, all of the wires coming out of
each breaker are hot.

So, I went to a live outlet next to a dead one. Disturbingly, the live
outlet shows about 30v between it's own neutral and ground. I didn't put a
load on it to see what would happen.All of the grounds and neutral wires
share a common buss at the breaker box. The ground wires in every box I've
examined are just twisted together, no wire nuts, no screws, so it doesn't
surprise me that by the time it gets to this outlet (on the far end of the
house from the breaker box) the ground isn't really "ground" anymore.
Anyhow, the dead outlet has 0v between it's hot and the neutral of the
live outlet. I get 120v between the live hot and the neutral of the dead
outlet.

I found a wire in the attic area that comes up out of the wall where one
end of the chain of dead outlets are. And it vanishes into another wall
that I don't have access to. I tested all outlets and switches nearby, all
are good, no dead hot wires leading out of any of them. I guess I'll have
to keep testing more and more outlets/switches from that point on...the
bad spot has to be somewhere....the wire has to go somewhere.

What was done or being done before this failure occurred?

Nothing. Poof, it went dead.

Does the breaker that supplies this wall of outlets supply any other
outlets that are still working?

No idea. The breaker box isn't labeled, and the wiring is a rat's nest of
wires running here and there and everywhere. This chain could be fed or
feed from about half of the outlets in the house. I have no clue which
breaker feeds the dead chain.

How old is the house? What kind of outlets (backstab or screw
terminals)?

58 years However, it was completely rewired 8 years ago, and the breaker
box was replaced. All outlets I've seen so far were screw terminals.



I think you may have an open neutral somewhere. Reading 30V from neutral to
ground would tend to indicate this and you seem to have verified that all of
the hot wires are intact and energized.

For best troubleshooting, get yourself one of the rubber bulb sockets with
pigtailed leads. Install a bulb and use it to check what is hot and what is
not. Just remember that a lit bulb requires a complete path, hot and
neutral. You can test from hot to ground if you suspect that the hot is okay
and the neutral is open.

There is some possibility that you may have a cable damaged by mice. I have
seen them bare and with enough corrosion from hot to ground to trip a GFCI.

Don Young

Mystery solved. After spending HOURS AND HOURS remove every single miserable
switch and outlet in the house, examining all of the wires, and finding
nothing, I was seriously considering tearing the wall out to see where the
wire went. So, I walked outside to cool off because it was warm in the
house. I stood there, thinking, wondering what to do next. I turned around
and faced the house, looking up at the top of the wall where I knew the dead
wire dissappeared. I looked down...and there I saw, on the outside of the
house, directly underneath where I knew the wire vanished into the wall, an
outlet! Not only was it an outlet, but it was a GFCI that had tripped!

So, anyhow - the short of it is, someone had wired the circuit through this
GFCI on the outside of the house such that when the GFCI tripped, it shut
off the entire circuit. All of the outlets in the frontroom, and half the
outlets in the master bedroom came through that GFCI. Ten days of hell
because of this miserable GFCI on the outside of the house....

Oh, BTW, I also found that the other circuit in the bedroom did have a bad
ground - totally unrelated to this problem, but nice to know. I also
replaced two switches and rewired about a half a dozen outlets because they
were backstabbers or just poorly wired - short wires, sloppy wiring, etc.



"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead
circuit and no idea where it gets fed from.

Ook wrote:

Mystery solved. After spending HOURS AND HOURS remove every single miserable
switch and outlet in the house, examining all of the wires, and finding
nothing, I was seriously considering tearing the wall out to see where the
wire went. So, I walked outside to cool off because it was warm in the
house. I stood there, thinking, wondering what to do next. I turned around
and faced the house, looking up at the top of the wall where I knew the dead
wire dissappeared. I looked down...and there I saw, on the outside of the
house, directly underneath where I knew the wire vanished into the wall, an
outlet! Not only was it an outlet, but it was a GFCI that had tripped!

So, anyhow - the short of it is, someone had wired the circuit through this
GFCI on the outside of the house such that when the GFCI tripped, it shut
off the entire circuit. All of the outlets in the frontroom, and half the
outlets in the master bedroom came through that GFCI. Ten days of hell
because of this miserable GFCI on the outside of the house....

Oh, BTW, I also found that the other circuit in the bedroom did have a bad
ground - totally unrelated to this problem, but nice to know. I also
replaced two switches and rewired about a half a dozen outlets because they
were backstabbers or just poorly wired - short wires, sloppy wiring, etc.


Thanks for coming back with the explanation. Isn't troubleshooting fun??

--
bud--

"Bud--" wrote in message
...
Ook wrote:

Mystery solved. After spending HOURS AND HOURS remove every single
miserable switch and outlet in the house, examining all of the wires, and
finding nothing, I was seriously considering tearing the wall out to see
where the wire went. So, I walked outside to cool off because it was warm
in the house. I stood there, thinking, wondering what to do next. I
turned around and faced the house, looking up at the top of the wall
where I knew the dead wire dissappeared. I looked down...and there I saw,
on the outside of the house, directly underneath where I knew the wire
vanished into the wall, an outlet! Not only was it an outlet, but it was
a GFCI that had tripped!

So, anyhow - the short of it is, someone had wired the circuit through
this GFCI on the outside of the house such that when the GFCI tripped, it
shut off the entire circuit. All of the outlets in the frontroom, and
half the outlets in the master bedroom came through that GFCI. Ten days
of hell because of this miserable GFCI on the outside of the house....

Oh, BTW, I also found that the other circuit in the bedroom did have a
bad ground - totally unrelated to this problem, but nice to know. I also
replaced two switches and rewired about a half a dozen outlets because
they were backstabbers or just poorly wired - short wires, sloppy wiring,
etc.


Thanks for coming back with the explanation. Isn't troubleshooting fun??

--
bud--

Yeaahhh...fun...LOL. But we are sooo glad it's over. What bugs me is that it
was a fluke that I actually spotted the outlet. I'd feel real stupid if I
had torn the wall out just to find that there was an outlet on the other
side.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:34:20 -0800, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

Mystery solved. After spending HOURS AND HOURS remove every single miserable
switch and outlet in the house, examining all of the wires, and finding
nothing, I was seriously considering tearing the wall out to see where the
wire went. So, I walked outside to cool off because it was warm in the
house. I stood there, thinking, wondering what to do next. I turned around
and faced the house, looking up at the top of the wall where I knew the dead
wire dissappeared. I looked down...and there I saw, on the outside of the
house, directly underneath where I knew the wire vanished into the wall, an
outlet! Not only was it an outlet, but it was a GFCI that had tripped!

So, anyhow - the short of it is, someone had wired the circuit through this
GFCI on the outside of the house such that when the GFCI tripped, it shut
off the entire circuit. All of the outlets in the frontroom, and half the
outlets in the master bedroom came through that GFCI. Ten days of hell
because of this miserable GFCI on the outside of the house....


I'd be seriously thinking about connecting the rest of the circuit to
the line side of that gfi instead of the load side.

I'd be seriously thinking about connecting the rest of the circuit to
the line side of that gfi instead of the load side.

I did - immediately. End of problem :-)

I'm not opposed to having the circuit protected by a GFCI, but having the
GFCI outside the house is just wrong. You should not take out the front room
and half a bedroom when your christmas tree lights trip the GFCI. If I had a
chance to do it myself, I would have put all outslide lights and outlets on
their own circuit, instead of mixing them like it currently is. For $.10,
I'd rewire the house myself and do it my way. Get rid of some of the
spaghetti wiring, add a few more circuits, design it a bit better.

Ook wrote:
Mystery solved. After spending HOURS AND HOURS remove every single miserable
switch and outlet in the house, examining all of the wires, and finding
nothing, I was seriously considering tearing the wall out to see where the
wire went. So, I walked outside to cool off because it was warm in the
house. I stood there, thinking, wondering what to do next. I turned around
and faced the house, looking up at the top of the wall where I knew the dead
wire dissappeared. I looked down...and there I saw, on the outside of the
house, directly underneath where I knew the wire vanished into the wall, an
outlet! Not only was it an outlet, but it was a GFCI that had tripped!

So, anyhow - the short of it is, someone had wired the circuit through this
GFCI on the outside of the house such that when the GFCI tripped, it shut
off the entire circuit. All of the outlets in the frontroom, and half the
outlets in the master bedroom came through that GFCI. Ten days of hell
because of this miserable GFCI on the outside of the house....

Oh, BTW, I also found that the other circuit in the bedroom did have a bad
ground - totally unrelated to this problem, but nice to know. I also
replaced two switches and rewired about a half a dozen outlets because they
were backstabbers or just poorly wired - short wires, sloppy wiring, etc.



"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
I have lost an entire circuit - 6 dead outlets, 2 dead switches, all along
one set of walls. All of the breakers are good, I even tested the wires
coming out of the breakers to make sure they were hot (wife bought me a
nifty no contact bells and whistles dvm ), and all it tells me is that
all of the hot wires are really hot. There are no wires running to the area
in the basement, and the attic is open and I don't see any wires there
either. I'm not really sure where the circuit is fed from, and tearing out
walls isn't an option. Any suggestions on how to find where the wire that
feeds the circuit comes from? Are there any devices that can detect wires
behind sheetrock, or otherwise allow you to trace wires without tearing the
wall apart? This should not be difficult, but so far I've got a dead
circuit and no idea where it gets fed from.




Well, it makes me feel better than my reply contained:

"Oh, and one other thing I just though of: if you have any GFCI (ground
fault circuit interrupters) in your house, check each of them. I
actually found a house once where someone looking for a convenient
source of power tapped off of a GFCI in a bathroom and fed it to the
lights and ceiling fans in two adjacent bedrooms. It took a lot of head
scratching to finally figure out than a tripped GFCI killed the power."

Sometimes you just gotta' get it right (even if you do misspell "thought".

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

Well, it makes me feel better than my reply contained:

"Oh, and one other thing I just though of: if you have any GFCI (ground
fault circuit interrupters) in your house, check each of them. I actually
found a house once where someone looking for a convenient source of power
tapped off of a GFCI in a bathroom and fed it to the lights and ceiling
fans in two adjacent bedrooms. It took a lot of head scratching to finally
figure out than a tripped GFCI killed the power."

Sometimes you just gotta' get it right (even if you do misspell "thought".

--


Yeah, I actually went back and found your original message yesterday,
talking about the GFCI. I found it rather humurous that what you described a
week ago is *exactly* what I found.

Ook wrote:
I'd be seriously thinking about connecting the rest of the circuit to
the line side of that gfi instead of the load side.

I did - immediately. End of problem :-)

I'm not opposed to having the circuit protected by a GFCI, but having the
GFCI outside the house is just wrong. You should not take out the front room
and half a bedroom when your christmas tree lights trip the GFCI. If I had a
chance to do it myself, I would have put all outslide lights and outlets on
their own circuit, instead of mixing them like it currently is. For $.10,
I'd rewire the house myself and do it my way. Get rid of some of the
spaghetti wiring, add a few more circuits, design it a bit better.


Were do you want me to send your ten cent US postal money order.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

"Thomas Horne" wrote in message
link.net...
Ook wrote:
I'd be seriously thinking about connecting the rest of the circuit to
the line side of that gfi instead of the load side.

I did - immediately. End of problem :-)

I'm not opposed to having the circuit protected by a GFCI, but having the
GFCI outside the house is just wrong. You should not take out the front
room and half a bedroom when your christmas tree lights trip the GFCI. If
I had a chance to do it myself, I would have put all outslide lights and
outlets on their own circuit, instead of mixing them like it currently
is. For $.10, I'd rewire the house myself and do it my way. Get rid of
some of the spaghetti wiring, add a few more circuits, design it a bit
better.
Were do you want me to send your ten cent US postal money order.
--
Tom Horne


Ohhh....twist my arm...please....

/looks at wiring in basement again and shudders....