Here's the situation... I have one light switch that controls two
separate lights.
1. Outside post light
2. Outside porch light

I would like to install a new box/light switch so that I can turn the
outside porch light independently. Any idea how I can tell which wires
go to what? I have an electrical tester (measures voltage, ohms,
etc.). Please let me know how I should go about this.

Thanks in advance for your help!

wrote:
Here's the situation... I have one light switch that controls two
separate lights.
1. Outside post light
2. Outside porch light

I would like to install a new box/light switch so that I can turn the
outside porch light independently. Any idea how I can tell which wires
go to what? I have an electrical tester (measures voltage, ohms,
etc.). Please let me know how I should go about this.

Thanks in advance for your help!


You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

If you open the switch box and find only one set of wires attached to that
switch, you need to find the junction where the wires from the post and
wires from the porch light come together. Possibly at the porch light, but
if there is basement or crawlspace under this switch location, the wires to
the post may be found there. I would expect you can find where the wires
leave the house to go underground to the post fixture, and work backwards
from there


wrote in message
ups.com...
Here's the situation... I have one light switch that controls two
separate lights.
1. Outside post light
2. Outside porch light

I would like to install a new box/light switch so that I can turn the
outside porch light independently. Any idea how I can tell which wires
go to what? I have an electrical tester (measures voltage, ohms,
etc.). Please let me know how I should go about this.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Actually, that's good. Just separate the two "load" wires off of the switch
and get a duplex switch. The hot (feed) wire goes on the line side of the
switch and the two "load" wires go to the other side, and you've got
independent switching of both fixtures


wrote in message
ups.com...
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Does the present switch have one hot wire coming in on one side of the
switch and two --one for each light--on the other side of the switch? If
so, just disconnect one and see which light quits working. If the setup
is not like that, you will have to give more specific details of exactly
what you have. Also, they make a double switch that can replace the one
you have (it takes the same cover as a standard wall plug) They are not
cheap, at least compared to a standard switch, but the work saved will
be more than worth the expense. Good luck Larry

First off, never open anything electrical up without turing the breaker
off, at least if you can. if you can't be EXTRA careful.
Secondly, you need to say what the wiring to the lights is. Is it
conduit? Is there any connections to the lights other than from the
switch?
probably, the best way to do the job is to replace the wiring
completely.

shelly

Your latest response troubles me. Don't take this wrong way, but are
you sure that the wires to the switch are hots and neutrals or is it
possible that you are confused by the colors? (I have no idea of the
level of your electrical experience or what your switch wiring really
looks like, so don't take this as an insult.)

Switches are not wired with hots and neutrals. Properly wired switches
only break the hot wire. Many times a length of Romex is run back from
the fixture to the switch and since 2 wire Romex only has black and
white (plus ground) wires, the white is used as a hot. This is
perfectly acceptable by code. The white should be marked with a black
marker or tape to indicate that it is hot, but many times that is not
done.

The picture at this site shows what I mean:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml

What it sounds like is that you have is a length of Romex from each
fixture at the switch. This makes the conversion easy.

Shut off the breaker, remove one back and one white wire from the
switch, making sure they come from the same piece of Romex. Hook these
to a new switch and you have separated your fixtures.

If you want verify that this is how your lamps are wired, open up each
fixture and you should see two lengths of Romex coming into the
fixture. The black from one will be wire-nutted to the black (or white)
of the other as shown in the picture at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Your latest response troubles me. Don't take this wrong way, but are
you sure that the wires to the switch are hots and neutrals or is it
possible that you are confused by the colors? (I have no idea of the
level of your electrical experience or what your switch wiring really
looks like, so don't take this as an insult.)

Switches are not wired with hots and neutrals. Properly wired switches
only break the hot wire. Many times a length of Romex is run back from
the fixture to the switch and since 2 wire Romex only has black and
white (plus ground) wires, the white is used as a hot. This is
perfectly acceptable by code. The white should be marked with a black
marker or tape to indicate that it is hot, but many times that is not
done.

The picture at this site shows what I mean:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml

What it sounds like is that you have is a length of Romex from each
fixture at the switch. This makes the conversion easy.

Shut off the breaker, remove one black and one white wire from the
switch, making sure they come from the same piece of Romex. Hook these
to a new switch and you have separated your fixtures.

If you want verify that this is how your lamps are wired, open up each
fixture and you should see two lengths of Romex coming into the
fixture. The black from one will be wire-nutted to the black (or white)
of the other as shown in the picture at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Ok, I think that solves my wiring problem. Thanks for the help.

Now the issue is I have a 2 gang box, in which both are in use (I have
one interior light on that same gang too). Can you point me to one of
those switches that will work two lights off of a one gang
installation?

Thanks for all your help.


DerbyDad03 wrote:
Your latest response troubles me. Don't take this wrong way, but are
you sure that the wires to the switch are hots and neutrals or is it
possible that you are confused by the colors? (I have no idea of the
level of your electrical experience or what your switch wiring really
looks like, so don't take this as an insult.)

Switches are not wired with hots and neutrals. Properly wired switches
only break the hot wire. Many times a length of Romex is run back from
the fixture to the switch and since 2 wire Romex only has black and
white (plus ground) wires, the white is used as a hot. This is
perfectly acceptable by code. The white should be marked with a black
marker or tape to indicate that it is hot, but many times that is not
done.

The picture at this site shows what I mean:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml

What it sounds like is that you have is a length of Romex from each
fixture at the switch. This makes the conversion easy.

Shut off the breaker, remove one black and one white wire from the
switch, making sure they come from the same piece of Romex. Hook these
to a new switch and you have separated your fixtures.

If you want verify that this is how your lamps are wired, open up each
fixture and you should see two lengths of Romex coming into the
fixture. The black from one will be wire-nutted to the black (or white)
of the other as shown in the picture at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

That's not unfortunate at all! just disconnect one of the "hots" turn
the power back on and see what is still hooked up.

The neutral for that light should leave the box through the same
knockout as the hot you just identified, and be part of the same cable.

good luck,

nate

wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Sure, if you are using "regular" wiring devices you can get two switches
on a frame that will fit behind a duplex receptacle cover plate opening,
if you are using "decora" style devices you can get either two or three
switches on a frame that will fit behind one decora/GFCI cover plate
opening. All of this can be found at Lowe's etc. in your choice of
several colors (white, ivory, brown, etc.)

good luck,

nate

wrote:
Ok, I think that solves my wiring problem. Thanks for the help.

Now the issue is I have a 2 gang box, in which both are in use (I have
one interior light on that same gang too). Can you point me to one of
those switches that will work two lights off of a one gang
installation?

Thanks for all your help.


DerbyDad03 wrote:

Your latest response troubles me. Don't take this wrong way, but are
you sure that the wires to the switch are hots and neutrals or is it
possible that you are confused by the colors? (I have no idea of the
level of your electrical experience or what your switch wiring really
looks like, so don't take this as an insult.)

Switches are not wired with hots and neutrals. Properly wired switches
only break the hot wire. Many times a length of Romex is run back from
the fixture to the switch and since 2 wire Romex only has black and
white (plus ground) wires, the white is used as a hot. This is
perfectly acceptable by code. The white should be marked with a black
marker or tape to indicate that it is hot, but many times that is not
done.

The picture at this site shows what I mean:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml

What it sounds like is that you have is a length of Romex from each
fixture at the switch. This makes the conversion easy.

Shut off the breaker, remove one black and one white wire from the
switch, making sure they come from the same piece of Romex. Hook these
to a new switch and you have separated your fixtures.

If you want verify that this is how your lamps are wired, open up each
fixture and you should see two lengths of Romex coming into the
fixture. The black from one will be wire-nutted to the black (or white)
of the other as shown in the picture at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



wrote:

Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

PS - all the neutrals should simply be spliced together with a wire nut
anyway so don't worry too much about them. likewise with the grounds if
present.

nate

Nate Nagel wrote:
That's not unfortunate at all! just disconnect one of the "hots" turn
the power back on and see what is still hooked up.

The neutral for that light should leave the box through the same
knockout as the hot you just identified, and be part of the same cable.

good luck,

nate

wrote:

Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel







--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

The switch set-up shown here is what you want. The 2 horizontal
switches are one unit and are designed to use a standard "single
toggle-duplex receptacle" switchplate.

http://www.switchhits.com/switchplat...es_covers.html

If your local home center doesn't have them, any decent electrical
supply house will.

I have a setup like this in my basement bathroom. The single toggle
controls the lights, the horizontal switches control the exhaust fan
and heater fan.

wrote:
Ok, I think that solves my wiring problem. Thanks for the help.

Now the issue is I have a 2 gang box, in which both are in use (I have
one interior light on that same gang too). Can you point me to one of
those switches that will work two lights off of a one gang
installation?

Thanks for all your help.


DerbyDad03 wrote:
Your latest response troubles me. Don't take this wrong way, but are
you sure that the wires to the switch are hots and neutrals or is it
possible that you are confused by the colors? (I have no idea of the
level of your electrical experience or what your switch wiring really
looks like, so don't take this as an insult.)

Switches are not wired with hots and neutrals. Properly wired switches
only break the hot wire. Many times a length of Romex is run back from
the fixture to the switch and since 2 wire Romex only has black and
white (plus ground) wires, the white is used as a hot. This is
perfectly acceptable by code. The white should be marked with a black
marker or tape to indicate that it is hot, but many times that is not
done.

The picture at this site shows what I mean:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml

What it sounds like is that you have is a length of Romex from each
fixture at the switch. This makes the conversion easy.

Shut off the breaker, remove one black and one white wire from the
switch, making sure they come from the same piece of Romex. Hook these
to a new switch and you have separated your fixtures.

If you want verify that this is how your lamps are wired, open up each
fixture and you should see two lengths of Romex coming into the
fixture. The black from one will be wire-nutted to the black (or white)
of the other as shown in the picture at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On 14 Jan 2007 17:18:32 -0800, wrote:

Ok, I think that solves my wiring problem. Thanks for the help.

Now the issue is I have a 2 gang box, in which both are in use (I have
one interior light on that same gang too). Can you point me to one of
those switches that will work two lights off of a one gang
installation?

Thanks for all your help.


I just bought one of those dual-switches at Lowe's. It's one that fits
the same cover plate as a standard receptacle. They have them in
decora style too.


DerbyDad03 wrote:
Your latest response troubles me. Don't take this wrong way, but are
you sure that the wires to the switch are hots and neutrals or is it
possible that you are confused by the colors? (I have no idea of the
level of your electrical experience or what your switch wiring really
looks like, so don't take this as an insult.)

Switches are not wired with hots and neutrals. Properly wired switches
only break the hot wire. Many times a length of Romex is run back from
the fixture to the switch and since 2 wire Romex only has black and
white (plus ground) wires, the white is used as a hot. This is
perfectly acceptable by code. The white should be marked with a black
marker or tape to indicate that it is hot, but many times that is not
done.

The picture at this site shows what I mean:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml

What it sounds like is that you have is a length of Romex from each
fixture at the switch. This makes the conversion easy.

Shut off the breaker, remove one black and one white wire from the
switch, making sure they come from the same piece of Romex. Hook these
to a new switch and you have separated your fixtures.

If you want verify that this is how your lamps are wired, open up each
fixture and you should see two lengths of Romex coming into the
fixture. The black from one will be wire-nutted to the black (or white)
of the other as shown in the picture at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

Nate - Please re-read his post -

"Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch."

If what he called the "neutral" is actually attached to the switch,
then the odds are that it is not a neutral. Odds are it's the hot lead
to the fixture as shown this site:
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml



Nate Nagel wrote:
That's not unfortunate at all! just disconnect one of the "hots" turn
the power back on and see what is still hooked up.

The neutral for that light should leave the box through the same
knockout as the hot you just identified, and be part of the same cable.

good luck,

nate

wrote:
Unfortunately the person that wired these lights ran two hot and two
neutral wires to the same light switch. This should make it easier to
repair, but determining which wires go where is my problem. I don't
want to cross hots or neutrals and have more of a hazard then I already
have.




You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:14:44 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

wrote:
Here's the situation... I have one light switch that controls two
separate lights.
1. Outside post light
2. Outside porch light

I would like to install a new box/light switch so that I can turn the
outside porch light independently. Any idea how I can tell which wires
go to what? I have an electrical tester (measures voltage, ohms,
etc.). Please let me know how I should go about this.

Thanks in advance for your help!



[I read further and I gather from the rest of the thread that he has
enough wires (but since it's written, I'm still going to post this)
but if he didn't...]

You're probably going to end up pulling wires. I am guessing once you
dig into your wiring that you will find that the wires go switch to
porch light to post light. thus there is no way of doing what you
propose without additional wires.

Well, there is still the possibility of X-10. I don't like to use
that, but if sufficiently pushed I would. Especially say if I were
moving in a couple years and didn't want to run wires, or if I didn't
know how to pull wires. It would probably also make the bulb too high
in the fixture, but there might be a different device other than the
obvious that would get around that.

The only way to determine this is to pull down the porch light and open
up the electrical box that holds the switch, and see what is inside.
Unless you are very comfortable working with electrical devices, you
probably want to switch off the breaker before starting.

good luck,

nate

Thanks again everyone for your help!

It took me about 15 minutes or so to isolate the power source, as there
were many splices in it. Apparently it feeds a few nearby outlets.
Anyway, after I found the power source I installed the duplex light
switch that fit perfectly. Both lights now work on separate switches!

Now I have a happy wife that can turn on the outside pole light and be
like the rest of the neighbors on our street. My wallet may not like
the extra electric usage, but a happy wife is priceless!

Thanks again for being such a huge help!

Now *I'm* confused.

I thought we had established that the wires at the original switch were
the hots from the fixtures as shown at
http://www.indepthinfo.com/wire-swit...t-switch.shtml. In your
case, you have 2 sets because you had 2 fixtures. I thought all you had
to do was attach one set to each switch of the new dual-toggle.

Why did you have to spend time isolating the power source?

wrote:
Thanks again everyone for your help!

It took me about 15 minutes or so to isolate the power source, as there
were many splices in it. Apparently it feeds a few nearby outlets.
Anyway, after I found the power source I installed the duplex light
switch that fit perfectly. Both lights now work on separate switches!

Now I have a happy wife that can turn on the outside pole light and be
like the rest of the neighbors on our street. My wallet may not like
the extra electric usage, but a happy wife is priceless!

Thanks again for being such a huge help!