"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:14:28 -0800,
wrote:
Where can I find PICTURES or DIAGRAMS of the procedure
to
flip a Kwikset
entry lock from the left-hand keyhole position to a
right-handed lock?

This PDF of the type of instructions that come with my
Kwikset entry lock
does not explain how to reverse an upside down keyway.
http://tinyurl.com/ymefs4

Oh my, I just realized I have to REMOVE THE LOCK
CYLINDER
in order to
switch the Kwikset lock from a left-hand upside-down
keyhole to a
right-hand right-side up keyway!
http://tinyurl.com/yzhu5d

So much for the "Easy Installation" and "Fits All
Doors"
on the package!

Why doesn't Kwikset just LABEL their package for
left-hand
doors only?

because Kwikset doesn't need to.
your links should be self explanatory.
once the cylinder is removed,
it can be re-installed any way needed..


--
"Key"
========

That's all true but the fact is since they sell their
product, probably most
of it, at retail straight to consumers, who for the most
part won't know how
to remove the cylinder, they should IMHO include good
directions and the
tool and just add a couple bucks to the cost of the
lockset. They could also
sell it with loose cylinders to be popped in at install
once the handing was
known.

agree, they shue could.
they use to include a tool in the box.
but that was many years ago...

--
"Key"
========

"Gary Heston" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
How do we flip a left-hand Kwikset lock so it works on a right-hand door?
[ ... ]

On all of them I've dealt with, you just separate the lockset into
the three main pieces, install the plunger/latch into the edge of
the door, stick the outside part (knob or deadbolt) in from the
exterior side of the door, mate the interior part (knob, deadbolt,
or turn lever) onto the rod from the front part, then spend a lot
of time getting the screws started. Tighten everything up, and
you're done.

The only difference between l-h and r-h locksets is which way the
plunger/latch points, and they're generally made to fit either way.
No need to pull the cylinders or anything like that. Locksets that
only fit one way are usually clearly marked as "l-h only" or "r-h only".


Gary

That's wrong. The pins in the keyway should be on top. Following your
instructions they may or may not end up that way. If the Keyway orientation
is not right for the handing of the installation then the only way to
correct it is to flip the cylinder.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:33:24 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
The only difference between l-h and r-h locksets is which way the
plunger/latch points, and they're generally made to fit either way.
No need to pull the cylinders or anything like that. Locksets that
only fit one way are usually clearly marked as "l-h only" or "r-h only".

DING DING DING DING !! We have a winner, folks!
Finally, someone posts the correct answer.

Now I'm REALLY confused.

If we don't need to pull the Kwikset lock cylinder, then why are all the
OTHER posts showing pictures of a cylinder removal tool in order to rotate
the configuration from a left hand to a right hand lock?

Please clarify if you can! Thanks!

You don't absolutely need to pull the lock cylinder to install the lock and
have it work but the keyway may be upside down. The lock will still work and
the people who are saying you don't need to flip it probably don't even know
that the pins are supposed to be at the top of the keyway. If they aren't,
even on an interior install where water etc isn't a factor all debris from
normal operation winds up going right down the pin wells. A broken or
collapsed spring will also hang it up whereas if the pins are at the top
gravity is your friend.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking
latches" - both Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and
Schlage - with only a thin piece of flexible plastic. If
you want anything that will cause someone motivated to get
into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a
library card can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you
take other measures to keep them from doing so, like
cutting a slot to catch the card in the door jamb. Even
so they can sneak the card around the corner above the
latch and slide it down.

nate

it really depends on if the dead-latch is installed
correctly.
many incorrectly installed dead-latches doesn't allow the
dead-latch itself to be restricted.
as you probably already know,
it has to be restricted from extending all the way out
before the dead-latch function will even work.

my2¢
--
"Key"
========


Steve wrote:
"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a
deadlocking latch is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point
worrying about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
" wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:35:01 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:
I've never seen a deadbolt lock where installing it on either a
right-hung or

a left-hung door depended on removing the lock cylinder.

My problem isn't with the deadbolt, it's with the entry lock knob.

Are you saying one can switch a Kwikset entry knob from a left-hand
configuration to a right-hand lock setup WITHOUT removing the lock
cylinder?

Absolutely. Works the same way as I described for a deadbolt.

The catch is that the pins may or may not be at the bottom as opposed to the
top. If they are at the bottom the only way to correct it is to pop out the
cylinder and turn it 180 degrees.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
news:Vtwqh.44570 If we don't need to pull the Kwikset lock
cylinder, then why are all the
OTHER posts showing pictures of a cylinder removal tool in
order to rotate
the configuration from a left hand to a right hand lock?

I've never seen a deadbolt lock where installing it on either a
right-hung or
a left-hung door depended on removing the lock cylinder.

CY: Doug, she's describing a knob lock.


Why the hell do you do this? The lack of a "" in front of your text and the
presence of it in front of the quoted text as well as the information
following "from" tells everybody who is writing what.

Correct..

"DanG" wrote in message
...
The little extra pin is called an anti pick feature. If it is depressed,
you should not be able to push the strike back.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
A live Singing Valentine quartet,
a sophisticated and elegant way to say I LOVE YOU!
(local)
http://www.singingvalentines.com/ (national)


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How...? the little extra pin still retracts when you push the latch
back. unless you can stop that from happening, you will always be able
to use the library card trick.

nate

Roger Cann wrote:
quick 2¢... when installed correctly deadlatch works and library card
doesn't. :-)

Yes when installed wrong almost anybody with the knowledge of how to
bend that card just right can get in with a credit card. That's why we
make the big bucks... When we come across this at a customers location
(via lock-out or break-in) we'll realign the strike plate to bring the
"DEADLATCH" back into the picture and also encourage the purchase of a
deadbolt and maybe a strike protector as well. Hey it is all about the
Benjamin's and public safety is it not?

still in business,
Roger

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a thin
piece of flexible plastic. If you want anything that will cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a library card
can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures to keep
them from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in the door
jamb. Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above the latch
and slide it down.

nate

Steve wrote:

"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a deadlocking
latch is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...


wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point worrying
about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel




--
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--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
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"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon"
wrote in message
...
You can't pop the cylinder out with a screw driver. Takes
a
special tool.


This is total BS again showing how little you know about
the trades you hack
at. It can be popped with a screwdriver (or two) of the
right dimensions or
a sharp pick or anything that will physically fit for that
matter.


actually it can be popped out from the rear with a blunt
ended punch :-)

--
"Key"
========

I've found when you knock it out it's the same as pulling it from the front.
Usually distorts the clips a little which granted is a small thing and
easily fixed, but it bugs me to even slightly damage something I'm being
paid to work on, if I don't absolutely have to. Then again some people
complain I'm a damn perfectionist and it drives them nuts....

"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:14:28 -0800,
wrote:
Where can I find PICTURES or DIAGRAMS of the procedure
to
flip a Kwikset
entry lock from the left-hand keyhole position to a
right-handed lock?

This PDF of the type of instructions that come with my
Kwikset entry lock
does not explain how to reverse an upside down keyway.
http://tinyurl.com/ymefs4

Oh my, I just realized I have to REMOVE THE LOCK
CYLINDER
in order to
switch the Kwikset lock from a left-hand upside-down
keyhole to a
right-hand right-side up keyway!
http://tinyurl.com/yzhu5d

So much for the "Easy Installation" and "Fits All
Doors"
on the package!

Why doesn't Kwikset just LABEL their package for
left-hand
doors only?

because Kwikset doesn't need to.
your links should be self explanatory.
once the cylinder is removed,
it can be re-installed any way needed..


--
"Key"
========

That's all true but the fact is since they sell their
product, probably most
of it, at retail straight to consumers, who for the most
part won't know how
to remove the cylinder, they should IMHO include good
directions and the
tool and just add a couple bucks to the cost of the
lockset. They could also
sell it with loose cylinders to be popped in at install
once the handing was
known.

agree, they shue could.
they use to include a tool in the box.
but that was many years ago...

--
"Key"
========

Before my time. I always thought they should put one in there. Cost to them
would be less than 50 cents (I can never remember the ASCII code for that
damn cent sign when I want it).

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a thin
piece of flexible plastic.

That's because you either know a trick that works with SOME door/frame
combinations or (more likely) the deadlatch was already bottomed in the hole
along with the spring latch rendering it useless. You cannot credit card
shim a properly installed, dead latched (which is pretty much all of them
sold today) KIK used in a good solid door/frame.

If you want anything that will cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a library card
can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures to keep
them from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in the door
jamb.

No in many applications they can't (and neither can you) which tells me
most of your experience comes from watching Jim Rockford on TV. It always
worked great for him, of course there was never anything in the way when he
would do those cool J turns in the firebird either.

Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above the latch
and slide it down.

nate

Steve wrote:
"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a deadlocking
latch is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point worrying about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How...? the little extra pin still retracts when you push the latch
back. unless you can stop that from happening, you will always be able
to use the library card trick.

nate

Get a lockset. Push the deadlatch back to the point where it would be if it
rests against the face of the strike (not down in the hole next to the
spring latch like it will be on a crappy install like Stormy does all the
time because he doesn't know or care what it's for either) now, while
holding the deadlatch in that position try and push back the spring latch.

Roger Cann wrote:
quick 2¢... when installed correctly deadlatch works and library card
doesn't. :-)

Yes when installed wrong almost anybody with the knowledge of how to
bend
that card just right can get in with a credit card. That's why we make
the
big bucks... When we come across this at a customers location (via
lock-out
or break-in) we'll realign the strike plate to bring the "DEADLATCH"
back
into the picture and also encourage the purchase of a deadbolt and maybe
a
strike protector as well. Hey it is all about the Benjamin's and public
safety is it not?

still in business,
Roger

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a thin
piece
of flexible plastic. If you want anything that will cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a library card
can
defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures to keep them
from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in the door jamb.
Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above the latch and
slide it down.

nate

Steve wrote:

"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a deadlocking
latch
is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...


wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point worrying
about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I learned how to disassemble Kwikkies from the locksmiths who
trained me.

Someone trained you? I thought you learned how to break stuff on your own.

I don't know of any web sites to help out.

And you've been looking because you can't figure out how to get the damn
things apart either which is a problem given by your own admission it's all
you install.


Where did you buy the locks? Maybe someone there can help?

You already know where the hell he/she bought the locks from because when
you were initially being an unhelpful prick in message-ID:
you wrote:

"Ah, now we get some more information. You bought the locks at
Home Depot. Well, that makes you a frugal home owner."

Which I suppose was your attempt at sarcasm. You then went on to bitch and
whine that they didn't hire a locksmith, which I suppose I should agree with
since theoretically I stand to benefit financially but being that I do all
my own home repairs plumbing electrical etc I take issure with none the
less. Not to mention that exchange of information for anybody who wants it
is more or less why this forum exists. Now you come back sweet as candy
suggesting that the seller might be able to help.

I think you have a split personality. I would assume you were being forged
except you never post to complain that that's the case so after numerous
instances I ruled it out. That said both general methods to get the cylinder
out from the back have been posted several times. So you should know how by
now and so should the OP..

"'Key" wrote in message
...

-lots of stuff from lots of people snipped-

home depot would have probably popped the cylinders out of
the entry locks for you,
if you would have just asked ?

LOL I ran out of a blank a couple months ago and stopped in a Home Depot for
it. It took 20 minutes to find somebody "trained on keys" then another 10 to
find somebody "trained" well enough "on keys" to find it (actually let me
find it) without one to physically compare it to. Then alot of confusion
about how anybody could do anything useful with just a keyblank (no I'm not
kidding). If you are a homeowner and want a basic F lock Home Depot is as
good a place as any to get it but if you want technical
expertise.................

then after you installed the locks on your doors, you could
have just popped them back in the way they needed to be.

g'day
--
"Key"
========

Even if Home depot had somebody who could do it LOL the average retail
customer doesn't know anything about it until they realize something doesn't
look right. If Kwikset didn't suck they would just include instructions and
a tool for people who buy their retail product which, yeah, I know, I
already harped on.

"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message ...
Here's a guy telling you how to pope a cylinder:


http://www.berkeleysquarejazz.com/bl...0Paul%20II.jpg

However, if you really want to remove a Kwikky knob lock
cylinder
without damaging the clips, you need two screw drivers.
Thin
ones, like jewlers' screw drivers.

have to disagree,
done it many times with one screw driver.
"without damaging the clips"

--
"Key"
========


--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon"
wrote
in message
...
You can't pop the cylinder out with a screw driver.
Takes
a
special tool.

hmmm?
I have poped out a cylinder with a screw driver before
when I misplaced the tool..

--
"Key"
========

Forget it. He doesn't know. First he said couldn't be done with screwdriver
had to have a special tool. Then he said OK jewelers screwdrivers as long as
you have two and they are precisley engineered for the purpose bla bla bla.
Now he'll say one is Ok as long as it's a screwdriver made especially for
working on those super high tech kwikset locksets that require all those
special tools. You'd think it was the guidance system on the damn space
shuttle he was talking about. Anyway, he doesn't care about damaged clips
any more than he cared about ghost keys in that masterkey system he posted
about or somebody getting electrocuted when they touch their AC unit or
somebody's house blowing up from the gas leak he created when he 'fixed'
their furnace. As long as nobody figures out he screwed it up, or at least
as long as they can't prove it in court he's happy.

Speaking of the space shuttle: Chris did you by chance moonlight putting
insulating foam on the booster tanks used on that thing a couple years ago?

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 07:03:37 GMT, "
wrote:

How do we flip a left-hand Kwikset lock so it works on a right-hand door?

I bought a set of Kwikset Security locks which advertise "Fits All Doors"
&
"Easy Installation". The Kwikset lock package contained two left-hand
keyed
knobs and two deadbolts.

The problem is there is NOTHING on the package that indicates the two
keyed
knobs are set up for left-handed doors (those with the hinge on the
left).
My outside doors are right-hand doors (they have the hinge on the right).

You just want the key to be "right side" up? How do you know which
side is the right side?

Why can't you just rotate the whole lock 180 degrees?

Because it will then be backwards with respect to the latch mechanism.


Every second house in my n'hood has a door that swings one way, and
every first and third house, the door swings the other way. (or opens
from the other side, depending on how you phrase it.) And I'm sure
they all have Kwikset locks like I do. Do you want me to check which
side of the keyhole goes up in my neighbors' locks?

For me, I think the key's teeth point up. Is that good or bad?

It's good and reversing the lock cylinder is a 30 second operation if you
know how so it's not that big a deal for anybody who does many of them.

It's crazy to me that Kwikset doesn't even SAY on the package that all my
lock cylinders will be upside down unless I can figure out how to switch
the Kwikset lock from being a left-hand knob to a right-hand knob.

Where is it written what is up and what is down?

The pins are supposed to be up. It's been discussed to death already but the
short answer is if they are down they will collect debris. A broken spring
will also cause a lockout. In practice it will work for a long time pins
down backwards or not and if the OP hasn't figured out how to reverse it yet
they should just leave it like that.

Steve wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

How...? the little extra pin still retracts when you push the latch
back. unless you can stop that from happening, you will always be able
to use the library card trick.

nate


Get a lockset. Push the deadlatch back to the point where it would be if it
rests against the face of the strike (not down in the hole next to the
spring latch like it will be on a crappy install like Stormy does all the
time because he doesn't know or care what it's for either) now, while
holding the deadlatch in that position try and push back the spring latch.

I'll be damned, you're right.

That must mean that there's a whole lot of crappy installs out there,
because I can think of at least 3x off the top of my head that I've had
to do the card trick and was able to pull it off in less than a minute.
Once at a house I used to live in and at least twice on a big, heavy
fire-rated door at a place I used to work. In fact, every time I've
*needed* to get in a door, I've been able to.

The Weiser locks on my current house do appear to be resistant to
"carding" as well as the metal weatherstrip would make it that much more
difficult.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
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I think Kwikset should just leave the cylinder out and let the end user snap
it in..
Roger
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...

-lots of stuff from lots of people snipped-

home depot would have probably popped the cylinders out of
the entry locks for you,
if you would have just asked ?

LOL I ran out of a blank a couple months ago and stopped in a Home Depot
for
it. It took 20 minutes to find somebody "trained on keys" then another 10
to
find somebody "trained" well enough "on keys" to find it (actually let me
find it) without one to physically compare it to. Then alot of confusion
about how anybody could do anything useful with just a keyblank (no I'm
not
kidding). If you are a homeowner and want a basic F lock Home Depot is as
good a place as any to get it but if you want technical
expertise.................

then after you installed the locks on your doors, you could
have just popped them back in the way they needed to be.

g'day
--
"Key"
========

Even if Home depot had somebody who could do it LOL the average retail
customer doesn't know anything about it until they realize something
doesn't
look right. If Kwikset didn't suck they would just include instructions
and
a tool for people who buy their retail product which, yeah, I know, I
already harped on.

I don't like to use that A-1 tool either it does damage the lock and clips
at times.. always the lock. IMHO
But I have used it in an emergency and no not on a titan! :-)
Roger..
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon"
wrote in message
...
You can't pop the cylinder out with a screw driver. Takes
a
special tool.


This is total BS again showing how little you know about
the trades you hack
at. It can be popped with a screwdriver (or two) of the
right dimensions or
a sharp pick or anything that will physically fit for that
matter.


actually it can be popped out from the rear with a blunt
ended punch :-)

--
"Key"
========

I've found when you knock it out it's the same as pulling it from the
front.
Usually distorts the clips a little which granted is a small thing and
easily fixed, but it bugs me to even slightly damage something I'm being
paid to work on, if I don't absolutely have to. Then again some people
complain I'm a damn perfectionist and it drives them nuts....

Hey man Rockford's the man... even better yet the old Maverick and even
"Support your local sheriff"
Hell Rockford files is still in syndication. Don't you just love it when a
lock it picked on TV without the cylinder even moving and better yet
sometimes the knob isn't even turned either.. I've even seen "no latch" on
some of the doors and no bolts on safes.. got ta love tv and those comments
from people "didn't take that long on tv"
Roger
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a thin
piece of flexible plastic.

That's because you either know a trick that works with SOME door/frame
combinations or (more likely) the deadlatch was already bottomed in the
hole
along with the spring latch rendering it useless. You cannot credit card
shim a properly installed, dead latched (which is pretty much all of them
sold today) KIK used in a good solid door/frame.

If you want anything that will cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a library card
can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures to keep
them from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in the door
jamb.

No in many applications they can't (and neither can you) which tells me
most of your experience comes from watching Jim Rockford on TV. It always
worked great for him, of course there was never anything in the way when
he
would do those cool J turns in the firebird either.

Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above the latch
and slide it down.

nate

Steve wrote:
"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a deadlocking
latch is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point worrying
about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Hell a kwikset has a hard enough time working with the pins up. try using
you key in a back door that hasn't been used in a while.
better have some wd-40 or the likes handy. You'll be lucky to even get the
key in.. at least around here anyway.. coastal environments a bitch! lube
lube lube.. preventative maintenance! Spray the internal parts down good
with some LokShot by strattec or similar non drying lube PRIOR to installing
it and it'll probably last as long as the manufacture thinks it's supposed
to.
Roger
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 07:03:37 GMT, "
wrote:

How do we flip a left-hand Kwikset lock so it works on a right-hand
door?

I bought a set of Kwikset Security locks which advertise "Fits All
Doors"
&
"Easy Installation". The Kwikset lock package contained two left-hand
keyed
knobs and two deadbolts.

The problem is there is NOTHING on the package that indicates the two
keyed
knobs are set up for left-handed doors (those with the hinge on the
left).
My outside doors are right-hand doors (they have the hinge on the
right).

You just want the key to be "right side" up? How do you know which
side is the right side?

Why can't you just rotate the whole lock 180 degrees?

Because it will then be backwards with respect to the latch mechanism.


Every second house in my n'hood has a door that swings one way, and
every first and third house, the door swings the other way. (or opens
from the other side, depending on how you phrase it.) And I'm sure
they all have Kwikset locks like I do. Do you want me to check which
side of the keyhole goes up in my neighbors' locks?

For me, I think the key's teeth point up. Is that good or bad?

It's good and reversing the lock cylinder is a 30 second operation if you
know how so it's not that big a deal for anybody who does many of them.

It's crazy to me that Kwikset doesn't even SAY on the package that all
my
lock cylinders will be upside down unless I can figure out how to switch
the Kwikset lock from being a left-hand knob to a right-hand knob.

Where is it written what is up and what is down?

The pins are supposed to be up. It's been discussed to death already but
the
short answer is if they are down they will collect debris. A broken spring
will also cause a lockout. In practice it will work for a long time pins
down backwards or not and if the OP hasn't figured out how to reverse it
yet
they should just leave it like that.

that's how I learned to drive "Like a bat out of hell!"
then again it could've been the pizza delivery days about 25 years ago! lol
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Hey man Rockford's the man... even better yet the old Maverick and even
"Support your local sheriff"
Hell Rockford files is still in syndication. Don't you just love it when
a
lock it picked on TV without the cylinder even moving and better yet
sometimes the knob isn't even turned either.. I've even seen "no latch"
on
some of the doors and no bolts on safes.. got ta love tv and those
comments
from people "didn't take that long on tv"
Roger

The picking scenes not withstanding Rockford files was one of the best
shows
on TV. AFAIK he did most of his own driving too.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a thin
piece of flexible plastic.

That's because you either know a trick that works with SOME door/frame
combinations or (more likely) the deadlatch was already bottomed in the
hole
along with the spring latch rendering it useless. You cannot credit
card
shim a properly installed, dead latched (which is pretty much all of
them
sold today) KIK used in a good solid door/frame.

If you want anything that will cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a library card
can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures to keep
them from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in the door
jamb.

No in many applications they can't (and neither can you) which tells
me
most of your experience comes from watching Jim Rockford on TV. It
always
worked great for him, of course there was never anything in the way
when
he
would do those cool J turns in the firebird either.

Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above the latch
and slide it down.

nate

Steve wrote:
"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a deadlocking
latch is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point worrying
about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

I used to like schlage alot, hell I use "a series" on my house. Don't like
the newer designs too much.

It seems youtube will be causing medecos stock to jump. bump bump bump.
I'm going to try the new HS ones out by marks. winkhaus has been to hard to
get latley.
Though I really think the new biometric locks are going to get more and more
popular as they get cheaper by the dozen.
Hell weisers even making'em now.
Roger.
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Hell a kwikset has a hard enough time working with the pins up. try using
you key in a back door that hasn't been used in a while.
better have some wd-40 or the likes handy. You'll be lucky to even get
the
key in.. at least around here anyway.. coastal environments a bitch!
lube
lube lube.. preventative maintenance! Spray the internal parts down good
with some LokShot by strattec or similar non drying lube PRIOR to
installing
it and it'll probably last as long as the manufacture thinks it's
supposed
to.
Roger

I don't like them, and they do stiffen up if they aren't used much but the
costal environment is probably some of the problem. Schlage F is a much
better lock. Better made. Better finish. Just better.

I have a couple Kwikset deadbolts still installed at my place on doors
that
aren't unlocked from the outside so I just deadpinned the outside
cylinders
with a couple scrap drill bits, now they are pick proof and drill
resistant
, the sheerline anyway, and put the Medeco Maxums I reccomend to most
other people to replace them on the doors that get opened from outside.
Couldn't really justify them though on doors that are mostly a big pane of
glass.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 07:03:37 GMT, "
wrote:

How do we flip a left-hand Kwikset lock so it works on a right-hand
door?

I bought a set of Kwikset Security locks which advertise "Fits All
Doors"
&
"Easy Installation". The Kwikset lock package contained two left-hand
keyed
knobs and two deadbolts.

The problem is there is NOTHING on the package that indicates the two

keyed
knobs are set up for left-handed doors (those with the hinge on the
left).
My outside doors are right-hand doors (they have the hinge on the
right).

You just want the key to be "right side" up? How do you know which
side is the right side?

Why can't you just rotate the whole lock 180 degrees?

Because it will then be backwards with respect to the latch mechanism.


Every second house in my n'hood has a door that swings one way, and
every first and third house, the door swings the other way. (or opens
from the other side, depending on how you phrase it.) And I'm sure
they all have Kwikset locks like I do. Do you want me to check which
side of the keyhole goes up in my neighbors' locks?

For me, I think the key's teeth point up. Is that good or bad?

It's good and reversing the lock cylinder is a 30 second operation if
you
know how so it's not that big a deal for anybody who does many of them.

It's crazy to me that Kwikset doesn't even SAY on the package that
all
my
lock cylinders will be upside down unless I can figure out how to
switch
the Kwikset lock from being a left-hand knob to a right-hand knob.

Where is it written what is up and what is down?

The pins are supposed to be up. It's been discussed to death already
but
the
short answer is if they are down they will collect debris. A broken
spring
will also cause a lockout. In practice it will work for a long time
pins
down backwards or not and if the OP hasn't figured out how to reverse
it
yet
they should just leave it like that.

If the latch is deadlatching, you can't slip it with a credit
card.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking
latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a
thin
piece of flexible plastic. If you want anything that will
cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a
couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a
library card
can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures
to keep
them from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in
the door
jamb. Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above
the latch
and slide it down.

nate

Why would you want to push the strike back? The strike is mounted
wtih two screws to the door jamb.
http://www.vandykes.com/images/products/02256603-lg.jpg

You'd want to push the latch back.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...Z.TZZZZZZZ.jpg

Real credit card burglars push the latch back.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"DanG" wrote in message
...
The little extra pin is called an anti pick feature. If it is
depressed, you should not be able to push the strike back.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
A live Singing Valentine quartet,
a sophisticated and elegant way to say I LOVE YOU!
(local)

Deadlatching is one of the things most builders in my area don't
understand. Also, most of my customers. I had an interesting
conversation one time with a truck driver I know. He was telling
me he could get into a certain building with two knives. One to
pry back the deadlatch trigger, and a second knife to pry back
the latch. I showed him what deadlatching was. How it worked. One
of the rare moments when he didn't have much to say.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

That must mean that there's a whole lot of crappy installs out
there,
because I can think of at least 3x off the top of my head that
I've had
to do the card trick and was able to pull it off in less than a
minute.
Once at a house I used to live in and at least twice on a
big, heavy
fire-rated door at a place I used to work. In fact, every time
I've
*needed* to get in a door, I've been able to.

The Weiser locks on my current house do appear to be resistant
to
"carding" as well as the metal weatherstrip would make it that
much more
difficult.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

I'm wondering how many end users have that skill?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
I think Kwikset should just leave the cylinder out and let the
end user snap
it in..
Roger

Yeah, Jim Rockfish (Rockford! Rockford!) was a pretty neat guy. I
used to love that TV show.

"Just like on TV" or "just like the cops" is the reason I no
longef own a flat bar for unlocking cars. I got tired of hearing
that.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Hey man Rockford's the man... even better yet the old Maverick
and even
"Support your local sheriff"
Hell Rockford files is still in syndication. Don't you just
love it when a
lock it picked on TV without the cylinder even moving and
better yet
sometimes the knob isn't even turned either.. I've even seen
"no latch" on
some of the doors and no bolts on safes.. got ta love tv and
those comments
from people "didn't take that long on tv"
Roger

just need a thumb and a couple fingers.. oh wait, wouldn't want to get sued
from someone representing ADA..lol
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering how many end users have that skill?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
I think Kwikset should just leave the cylinder out and let the
end user snap
it in..
Roger

Me too.. still hear it though.. "You gonna use one of those slimjims?"
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Yeah, Jim Rockfish (Rockford! Rockford!) was a pretty neat guy. I
used to love that TV show.

"Just like on TV" or "just like the cops" is the reason I no
longef own a flat bar for unlocking cars. I got tired of hearing
that.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Hey man Rockford's the man... even better yet the old Maverick
and even
"Support your local sheriff"
Hell Rockford files is still in syndication. Don't you just
love it when a
lock it picked on TV without the cylinder even moving and
better yet
sometimes the knob isn't even turned either.. I've even seen
"no latch" on
some of the doors and no bolts on safes.. got ta love tv and
those comments
from people "didn't take that long on tv"
Roger

"I can get one of them at the auto parts store. Matter of fact,
my cousin Jimmy carries one in his trunk. I oughta just call him
and save all that money you're charging me."

I did get a call once from a fellow locked out of his car, about
200 feet from an auto parts store. He'd walked in, and bought
himself a harpoon style Slim Jim, and worked on his own car for
awhile before calling a locksmith.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Me too.. still hear it though.. "You gonna use one of those
slimjims?"
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message
...
Yeah, Jim Rockfish (Rockford! Rockford!) was a pretty neat
guy. I
used to love that TV show.

"Just like on TV" or "just like the cops" is the reason I no
longef own a flat bar for unlocking cars. I got tired of
hearing
that.

I have a thumg and fingers -- and can't draw sketches of people.
Neither can I perform surgery. Nor can I fly a commercial air
liner.

You think something else is needed, also?

I like your comment about the ADA

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
just need a thumb and a couple fingers.. oh wait, wouldn't want
to get sued
from someone representing ADA..lol
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message
...
I'm wondering how many end users have that skill?

--

Why? Was your car made in the seventies, when Slim Jims worked?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Me too.. still hear it though.. "You gonna use one of those
slimjims?"

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Hey man Rockford's the man... even better yet the old Maverick and even
"Support your local sheriff"
Hell Rockford files is still in syndication. Don't you just love it when
a
lock it picked on TV without the cylinder even moving and better yet
sometimes the knob isn't even turned either.. I've even seen "no latch"
on
some of the doors and no bolts on safes.. got ta love tv and those
comments
from people "didn't take that long on tv"
Roger

The picking scenes not withstanding Rockford files was one of the best shows
on TV. AFAIK he did most of his own driving too.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
How am I wrong? I have defeated several "deadlocking latches" - both
Kwikset and also good quality Weiser and Schlage - with only a thin
piece of flexible plastic.

That's because you either know a trick that works with SOME door/frame
combinations or (more likely) the deadlatch was already bottomed in the
hole
along with the spring latch rendering it useless. You cannot credit card
shim a properly installed, dead latched (which is pretty much all of
them
sold today) KIK used in a good solid door/frame.

If you want anything that will cause someone
motivated to get into your house to have to take more than a couple
minutes, you need a deadBOLT. As I said, any kid with a library card
can defeat a deadlocking latch UNLESS you take other measures to keep
them from doing so, like cutting a slot to catch the card in the door
jamb.

No in many applications they can't (and neither can you) which tells me
most of your experience comes from watching Jim Rockford on TV. It
always
worked great for him, of course there was never anything in the way when
he
would do those cool J turns in the firebird either.

Even so they can sneak the card around the corner above the latch
and slide it down.

nate

Steve wrote:
"Proving he watches a lot of TV and doesn't know what a deadlocking
latch is
Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

wrote:


Of course, if you don't have a deadbolt, there's no point worrying
about
it... any kid with a library card can get in your door.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Hell a kwikset has a hard enough time working with the pins up. try using
you key in a back door that hasn't been used in a while.
better have some wd-40 or the likes handy. You'll be lucky to even get
the
key in.. at least around here anyway.. coastal environments a bitch!
lube
lube lube.. preventative maintenance! Spray the internal parts down good
with some LokShot by strattec or similar non drying lube PRIOR to
installing
it and it'll probably last as long as the manufacture thinks it's supposed
to.
Roger

I don't like them, and they do stiffen up if they aren't used much but the
costal environment is probably some of the problem. Schlage F is a much
better lock. Better made. Better finish. Just better.

I have a couple Kwikset deadbolts still installed at my place on doors that
aren't unlocked from the outside so I just deadpinned the outside cylinders
with a couple scrap drill bits, now they are pick proof and drill resistant
, the sheerline anyway, and put the Medeco Maxums I reccomend to most
other people to replace them on the doors that get opened from outside.
Couldn't really justify them though on doors that are mostly a big pane of
glass.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 07:03:37 GMT, "
wrote:

How do we flip a left-hand Kwikset lock so it works on a right-hand
door?

I bought a set of Kwikset Security locks which advertise "Fits All
Doors"
&
"Easy Installation". The Kwikset lock package contained two left-hand
keyed
knobs and two deadbolts.

The problem is there is NOTHING on the package that indicates the two

keyed
knobs are set up for left-handed doors (those with the hinge on the
left).
My outside doors are right-hand doors (they have the hinge on the
right).

You just want the key to be "right side" up? How do you know which
side is the right side?

Why can't you just rotate the whole lock 180 degrees?

Because it will then be backwards with respect to the latch mechanism.


Every second house in my n'hood has a door that swings one way, and
every first and third house, the door swings the other way. (or opens
from the other side, depending on how you phrase it.) And I'm sure
they all have Kwikset locks like I do. Do you want me to check which
side of the keyhole goes up in my neighbors' locks?

For me, I think the key's teeth point up. Is that good or bad?

It's good and reversing the lock cylinder is a 30 second operation if
you
know how so it's not that big a deal for anybody who does many of them.

It's crazy to me that Kwikset doesn't even SAY on the package that all
my
lock cylinders will be upside down unless I can figure out how to
switch
the Kwikset lock from being a left-hand knob to a right-hand knob.

Where is it written what is up and what is down?

The pins are supposed to be up. It's been discussed to death already but
the
short answer is if they are down they will collect debris. A broken
spring
will also cause a lockout. In practice it will work for a long time pins
down backwards or not and if the OP hasn't figured out how to reverse it
yet
they should just leave it like that.

Hell I can do all of those... just need a little tequilla for courage...lol
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I have a thumg and fingers -- and can't draw sketches of people.
Neither can I perform surgery. Nor can I fly a commercial air
liner.

You think something else is needed, also?

I like your comment about the ADA

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
just need a thumb and a couple fingers.. oh wait, wouldn't want
to get sued
from someone representing ADA..lol
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message
...
I'm wondering how many end users have that skill?

--

went on a call yesterday to BFE an hour away. lady said "they been working
on it for an hour now!" I said how about you call me when there're done.
she stopped'em and I was on my way. btw that 2002 Tahoe no longer works with
a key... slim jim took the linkage out. should've called me first before
her husband went at it.

oh yeah 1 more thing "You know if my cousin was here (and not in prison)
he'd be in there already!"

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
"I can get one of them at the auto parts store. Matter of fact,
my cousin Jimmy carries one in his trunk. I oughta just call him
and save all that money you're charging me."

I did get a call once from a fellow locked out of his car, about
200 feet from an auto parts store. He'd walked in, and bought
himself a harpoon style Slim Jim, and worked on his own car for
awhile before calling a locksmith.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Me too.. still hear it though.. "You gonna use one of those
slimjims?"
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
message
...
Yeah, Jim Rockfish (Rockford! Rockford!) was a pretty neat
guy. I
used to love that TV show.

"Just like on TV" or "just like the cops" is the reason I no
longef own a flat bar for unlocking cars. I got tired of
hearing
that.

Yeah I hear something like this alot "I used to be able to get into anything
with a slimjim, not no more them damn side airbags will kill ya" lol
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Why? Was your car made in the seventies, when Slim Jims worked?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"Roger Cann" wrote in message
...
Me too.. still hear it though.. "You gonna use one of those
slimjims?"

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

How...? the little extra pin still retracts when you push the latch
back. unless you can stop that from happening, you will always be able
to use the library card trick.

nate


Get a lockset. Push the deadlatch back to the point where it would be if
it
rests against the face of the strike (not down in the hole next to the
spring latch like it will be on a crappy install like Stormy does all
the
time because he doesn't know or care what it's for either) now, while
holding the deadlatch in that position try and push back the spring
latch.

I'll be damned, you're right.

That must mean that there's a whole lot of crappy installs out there,

There are a fair number. You will find fewer on commercial applications
where the door and frame are usually both steel and there is very little
give or flex.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon"
wrote in message
...
You can't pop the cylinder out with a screw driver.
Takes
a
special tool.


This is total BS again showing how little you know
about
the trades you hack
at. It can be popped with a screwdriver (or two) of the
right dimensions or
a sharp pick or anything that will physically fit for
that
matter.


actually it can be popped out from the rear with a blunt
ended punch :-)

--
"Key"
========

I've found when you knock it out it's the same as pulling
it from the front.
Usually distorts the clips a little which granted is a
small thing and
easily fixed, but it bugs me to even slightly damage
something I'm being
paid to work on, if I don't absolutely have to. Then
again some people
complain I'm a damn perfectionist and it drives them
nuts....


I was only talking doing this as a last resort.
like when one mis-places their removal tool.
it will not do germinate damage.
(unless ya use a sledge hammer)
:-)
--
"Key"
========

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
...

"'Key" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:14:28 -0800,
wrote:
Where can I find PICTURES or DIAGRAMS of the
procedure
to
flip a Kwikset
entry lock from the left-hand keyhole position to a
right-handed lock?

This PDF of the type of instructions that come with
my
Kwikset entry lock
does not explain how to reverse an upside down
keyway.
http://tinyurl.com/ymefs4

Oh my, I just realized I have to REMOVE THE LOCK
CYLINDER
in order to
switch the Kwikset lock from a left-hand upside-down
keyhole to a
right-hand right-side up keyway!
http://tinyurl.com/yzhu5d

So much for the "Easy Installation" and "Fits All
Doors"
on the package!

Why doesn't Kwikset just LABEL their package for
left-hand
doors only?

because Kwikset doesn't need to.
your links should be self explanatory.
once the cylinder is removed,
it can be re-installed any way needed..


--
"Key"
========

That's all true but the fact is since they sell their
product, probably most
of it, at retail straight to consumers, who for the
most
part won't know how
to remove the cylinder, they should IMHO include good
directions and the
tool and just add a couple bucks to the cost of the
lockset. They could also
sell it with loose cylinders to be popped in at install
once the handing was
known.

agree, they shue could.
they use to include a tool in the box.
but that was many years ago...

--
"Key"
========

Before my time. I always thought they should put one in
there. Cost to them
would be less than 50 cents (I can never remember the
ASCII code for that
damn cent sign when I want it).


¢ = push #Alt and #155 at the same time...

g'day
--
"Key"
========