We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

wrote:
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

I thought HD and Lowes delivered? maybe no more...

You could figure the price differential for going to a regular lumber
yard that delivers- 84 lumber, whatever is around.
The lumber will be better, as well.

Dave

wrote:
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution

Yes. Either bother someone to borrow their truck or rent the HD under
maintained fleet or buy materials from a dealer that delivers.

If you're buying the stuff from HD, have them deliver it



wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

wrote:
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

Have it delivered? Shouldn't cost much more than renting the truck.
--
Grandpa

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


You can rent U-Hauls smallest trucks for what....thirty bucks a day? Don't
buy their insurance, but check your car policy to see if it covers rental
vehicles.

" wrote:

We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

Plan ahead and rent a truck? Budget usually seems to have the best
trucks, U-Haul usually has the worst. When I moved I needed to rent a
truck with a lift gate to move stuff from several locations to the semi
doing the actual move. Budget came through with a big International 4300
with 24' box and lift gate with a couple thousand miles on it i.e.
practically new at a good rate. It lined up nicely with the semi for
palette jacking stuff between the two.

Pete C.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


You can rent U-Hauls smallest trucks for what....thirty bucks a day? Don't
buy their insurance, but check your car policy to see if it covers rental
vehicles.

Avoid U-Haul if at all possible. Their fleet usually is in worse shape
than Depot's. Budget usually is reliable and has very new and well
maintained trucks.

Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


You can rent U-Hauls smallest trucks for what....thirty bucks a day?
Don't
buy their insurance, but check your car policy to see if it covers rental
vehicles.

Avoid U-Haul if at all possible. Their fleet usually is in worse shape
than Depot's. Budget usually is reliable and has very new and well
maintained trucks.

Pete C.


Maybe, but we don't know how far he has to travel from his home to the
store. U-Haul trucks may be in ratty shape, but I don't see many of them on
the side of the road.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


You can rent U-Hauls smallest trucks for what....thirty bucks a day?
Don't
buy their insurance, but check your car policy to see if it covers rental
vehicles.

Avoid U-Haul if at all possible. Their fleet usually is in worse shape
than Depot's. Budget usually is reliable and has very new and well
maintained trucks.

Pete C.

Maybe, but we don't know how far he has to travel from his home to the
store. U-Haul trucks may be in ratty shape, but I don't see many of them on
the side of the road.

I don't see many rental trucks on the side of the road either, but when
I do it seems it's usually a U-Haul and one of the van based ones. Can't
remember ever seeing one of the Internationals or similar medium duty
truck from Budget or Rollins or Penskee or whoever on the side of the
road.

Pete C.

wrote
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

An obvious result......
http://www.allowe.com/images/overloa...car%20roof.jpg

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


Here's what we did. We remodeled a lot. Three rooms. We did make trips to
the dump, as I have a pickup.

BUT, the trashmen picked up a lot of it. You just have to cut it up in
small pieces and put it out a little at a time. Being out there when they
come with some bottles of water or some cold sodas works wonders, too. One
day, we had a bunch of cabinets, and drywall and studs, and they backed the
truck into the driveway and took it all.

May or may not work where you live depending on your refuse hauler.

Steve

Duh. I was addressing waste. For delivery, just buy from someone who
delivers.

Steve


wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

Thanks fellas. IIRC, Lowe's does deliver for $50 here.

Re the waste issue... I live in KS where waste laws aren't too bad, so
I just drop stuff off in ditches out in the country when I can.
kidding.

Actually, I just finished chopping up a couch into trash can sized
pieces with an axe, a sawzall and a die grinder a few weekends ago. We
actually threw out the kitchen sink last weekend, got a kick out of
that. gotta start on a twin sized mattress next.

What it boils down to, as far as waste goes, is that almost everything
has salvage value. For example, we replaced all the trim in the house
with newer white stuff. Rather than go out and buy shoe molding to
match, we took the old 2.5" casing and set the table saw up at 3/4",
and ripped out perfect shoe.... now I just gotta paint it.

Find someone who's finishing a basement, they can use all kinds of
stuff that you were gonna throw out. A buddy is using my laminate
scrap to make a downstairs wet bar, another is using my old kitchen
faucet on his bar.... not too mention that they took all of my old
light colored flat latex opened gallons to use as primer for their
fresh drywall.

Just a little thing we like to do, especially because we're broke.
Thank goodness for the Mennonite Housing folks, they put 8 families
together and have them build each others 8 houses together, so they're
all real good at a few things by the time they finish, then you just
gotta track down the fella who did Stairs, for example or Plumbing and
they can tell you whatever you need to know, or they'll come by and
help you out for a few beers or do the whole job for $20 hour or so.

" writes:

We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


I have neigbors that tore a cape cod down to one stick on concrete and
replaced it with a full 2 story structure and between having lumber
delivered and those cheap rental trucks hey got by with their 2 4door
sedans....

Rent the truck or pay for delivery. Simple albeit not as covenient as
grocery sopping. Otherwise pay someone else to do the remodel.

--
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


Pay for delivery. I own a truck and sometimes paying is easier. Make your
list and check it thrice.

Note that inside delivery of drywall incurs an surcharge.

On 3 Jan 2007 13:40:55 -0800, "
wrote:

We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

Can your car pull a trailer?


--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials.
Do you see any obvious solution?


Yes, go to your local lumber yard and see if they deliver. Sheetrock is
heavy stuff so you want to handle it as little as possible.

I'm curious. How do you know it's under maintained?

--
Steve Barker


wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

On 3 Jan 2007 15:05:07 -0800, "
wrote:

:Actually, I just finished chopping up a couch into trash can sized
ieces with an axe, a sawzall and a die grinder a few weekends ago.
I tried doing this, but gave up. I do have an axe but no sawzall and
what's a die grinder? I tried to disassemble it, but didn't get too far.
I called the city, who does a once a year pickup of large items and they
wouldn't waive me in spite of the fact I've only called them once. It
happened to be in 2006. So, they said I can schedule after the first of
the year. As of Monday, I call call them and have them haul away the
used-to-be couch on my front porch!

Dan

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:29:01 -0800, Oren wrote:

:Can your car pull a trailer?

This is a good point. I think Harbor Freight sells trailers that will
fold up and you can store in your garage. I was tempted.

I keep an old compact station wagon for just this kind of thing. It's a
hassle to keep up, and I only use it average 2 maybe 3 times a year, but
it's great to have it when I need it. One year it looked like it would
be expensive to get past the smog test and I started looking for
alternatives, including a trailer as mentioned. Turned out I got the
smog thing done for less than $100, so I still have the wagon. Brought
home a 16' extension ladder with it just the other day on the roof rack.

On 3 Jan 2007 13:40:55 -0800, "
wrote:



Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Undermaintained or not, the odds are tiny that it will break down in
the 75 minutes you have it, and if it does, call them and they'll send
another truck, take your materials to your house for you, and they
probably will cancel the charge for the truck.

Do you think they will expect you to hitchhike back to the store, rent
another truck, and do everything yourself?

Don't go making up problems where there are none.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:26:26 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Maybe, but we don't know how far he has to travel from his home to the
store. U-Haul trucks may be in ratty shape, but I don't see many of them on
the side of the road.

I don't think uhaul trucks are bad, but I don't think one can judge
anything by what he sees on the side of the road. I only see a car or
truck on the side maybe every 2 weeks, and I know there are thousands
that break down in that same time. It's just not a good sample.

On 03 Jan 2007 17:20:48 -0600, (Todd H.) wrote:

4door
sedans....

Or buy a convertible. I can get a 4x8' sheet of plywood in floor of
the back seat of my LeBaron with just a little bend.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:29:01 -0800, Oren wrote:


Can your car pull a trailer?

Most cars dont actually have frames anymore, and can only pull about
500 pounds, and not even that if you accelerate fast. The trailer
weighs at least 200 usually, so that gives you 300 payload.

I'm probably going to buy a Harbor Freight trailer tonight or tomorrow
(but since someone mentioned it, I'll look in the NOrthern catalog.

I'm having it delivered to my borother in Texas where i will assemble
it while visiting. My 7 year old nephew can help me. And then I will
drive back with some furniture. Unfortunately I have nowhere to keep
the trailer and I'll have to sell it after that. It's still cheper
than renting a truck or a van, 900 plus airfare one way, versus 200
plus gas an extra one-way. Gas and airfare are about the same, so 700
dollars cheaper and I 'm going to have a 5+5 day sightseeing trip.

In article .com,
" wrote:

We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

We had that problem and our VW mechanic was going to scrap a van, so
we got it , fixed it up. (an engine) and cut the back off for a very
cheap and fun "pick-up"
It helped us decide to get a canoe. and we now get our own firewood.

--

Money.. What a concept!

In article m,
) says...

Thanks fellas. IIRC, Lowe's does deliver for $50 here.

Re the waste issue... I live in KS where waste laws aren't too bad, so
I just drop stuff off in ditches out in the country when I can.
kidding.

Actually, I just finished chopping up a couch into trash can sized
pieces with an axe, a sawzall and a die grinder a few weekends ago. We
actually threw out the kitchen sink last weekend, got a kick out of
that. gotta start on a twin sized mattress next.

You could always just call your garbage company and have them deliver a
dumpster. they come in various sizes, from 5 cubic yards to 25 cubic
yards, with various prices. I remodelled a couple of years ago, which
meant I had to clean out the house, which meant I had to clean out the
barn. My wife and I filled six 25 cubic yard dumpsters, we sold two van
loads of furniture to a second hand dealer, and I hauled several pickup
loads of good junk to Goodwill and Salvation Army.

Farms do tend to accumulate stuff. Quite a bit of the dumpster stuff
was left over from the previous owner. When we moved out of our last
place, we parked a dumpster next to the house and the moving van in the
driveway. To load the van, you had to carry it past the dumpster.
Anyone who helped got dumpster diving privileges.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

In article ,
says...
"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


You can rent U-Hauls smallest trucks for what....thirty bucks a day?
Don't
buy their insurance, but check your car policy to see if it covers rental
vehicles.

Avoid U-Haul if at all possible. Their fleet usually is in worse shape
than Depot's. Budget usually is reliable and has very new and well
maintained trucks.

Pete C.


Maybe, but we don't know how far he has to travel from his home to the
store. U-Haul trucks may be in ratty shape, but I don't see many of them on
the side of the road.

I've been on the side of the road with one. Trust me, it's no fun.

--
Keith

In article .com,
wrote:
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?


A 4' X 8' utility trailer kit for about $200, $50 to build the deck
& sides & buy some straps & misc. tiedowns, and perhaps $50 to $100
to install a hitch and light connector kit on your car.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

wrote:
We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
buying.

Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't want
to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
only for an hour.

Do you see any obvious solution?

Then Rent a Uhaul (or other equivalent rental
company) for 1 day. It will probably be cheaper
than $20/hour.

have it delivered so they can weed out all the twisted lumber for the
next time I go there to get mine.
for $100 I will deliver it to you on my way by.

wrote in message
oups.com...
| We're planning on doing a remodel involving a new wall and hand-built
| shower stall with a budget of around $2,000 for materials. The
| problem is, that we don't have a truck and I don't want to bother
| anyone to borrow theirs for all the drywall, studs and tile we're
| buying.
|
| Is there any solution to this? I've seen that HD will actually rent
| out trucks for like $20/hr, but it looks like a hassle and I don't
want
| to be responsible for their under maintained fleet vehicle, even if
| only for an hour.
|
| Do you see any obvious solution?
|

mm wrote:

I don't think uhaul trucks are bad, but I don't think one can judge
anything by what he sees on the side of the road. I only see a car or
truck on the side maybe every 2 weeks, and I know there are thousands
that break down in that same time. It's just not a good sample.

In 2005 a canadian investigative journalism TV show ("W5" if you're
interested) did an investigation into UHaul.

They rented 13 trucks in 4 cities, and all of them failed safety
inspections at 3rd party garages. Worn out brakes (metal-on-metal in
one case), loose steering, broken seatbelts, etc. In 2006 they rented 9
trucks, and 7 of them failed inspection.

Apparantly UHaul's incidence of truck problems is 5x the industry average.

I've sworn off UHaul.

Chris

Or buy a convertible. I can get a 4x8' sheet of plywood in floor of
the back seat of my LeBaron with just a little bend.

that's hilarious.

Very good point about the trailer. I've got a good buddy with four
kids who lives out in the boonies just outside of Valley Center, KS.
He went out and got a mini-van after having a fourth child about 8
years ago, then picked up a 4x8 or so hand-made trailer. The van's
even got trailer light hookups, go figure.

he takes that thing all over the place, he gets firewood, building
materials...hell, he even came and picked up my old olympic sized
weightbench with that beast. I was impressed at how much it would
hold, especially when he told me that he's got a 4x8 1/2" OSB that he
throws on the top that he can lock when they're going on vacation.
Beats the snot out of one of those car-top deals and holds a LOT more.

for some reason, ford mounted a rear valance of my 2004 Mustang GT in
such a way that welding a hitch on would be, interesting, to say the
least. I'd have to cut out a lot of ABS and fiberglass just to get to
the frame.... or I wouldn't be asking the question, i'd be borrowing a
buddy's trailer.

I think I've got it worked out guys, delivery ain't that bad. Thanks
again!

On 4 Jan 2007 14:57:51 -0800, "
wrote:


Or buy a convertible. I can get a 4x8' sheet of plywood in floor of
the back seat of my LeBaron with just a little bend.

that's hilarious.

When I had a full-size convertible, a '65 and then a '67 Pontiac
Catalina, I could carry a whole room of furniture in the back seat and
on the trunk. Went 3 feet above my head when I was driving.

And twice I put a double bed mattress on the trunk and moved a spinet
piano. They should be moved while upright but I only drove about
10mph on the bumps and 25 on the flat spots.

mm wrote:
On 4 Jan 2007 14:57:51 -0800, "
wrote:


Or buy a convertible. I can get a 4x8' sheet of plywood in floor of
the back seat of my LeBaron with just a little bend.

that's hilarious.


When I had a full-size convertible, a '65 and then a '67 Pontiac
Catalina, I could carry a whole room of furniture in the back seat and
on the trunk. Went 3 feet above my head when I was driving.

And twice I put a double bed mattress on the trunk and moved a spinet
piano. They should be moved while upright but I only drove about
10mph on the bumps and 25 on the flat spots.


I'm seriously considering the purchase of a '64 Studebaker Wagonaire as
a beater car. That's the car that originated the sliding roof recently
re-introduced by GM on the Trailblazer.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel