Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an
example of a crop that is produced in the first world using
industrial scale agriculture that doesnt get used in the low
labor cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

Depends on the specific agriculture you are talking about.

Depends on the going rate for wages.

It depends on a hell of a lot more than just that. There's a reason
you dont see much industrial scale agriculture in the third world.

Why would they need it ?

Oh, a few tiny details like producing enough to eat etc.

You think they're starving ?

I know they arent.

I also know that they buy a lot of what the industrial
scale agriculture in the first world produces and eat that.

In India $80 p.c.m. is a decent wage for industrial workers if they can get it.

Agricultural workers will be on a fraction of that.

Irrelevant to that silly claim about US agriculture.

What claim ?

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to find it in the quoting at the top.

About labour ? That's someone else's claim.

I never said it was yours.

SMS wrote:
Al Bundy wrote:

Every little bit helps I guess. Your suggestion of not wasting a trip
is a good one. I think the biodiesel option is more hype than success
though. It needs to be processed quite a bit and mixed with regular
diesel to protect the engines and run properly. The final price is
higher than normal also.

I have a friend with a bio-diesel Mercedes that he converted. It costs
him about $1.50 per gallon to make fuel, using free oil from
restaurants. Japanese-run Japanese restaurants are the best, as they
change the oil often for tempura, so it's clean oil.

If you have to buy the bio-diesel fuel it's more expensive, but if you
make it yourself it's cheaper. He does it in his garage. Probably
violates his homeowners insurance policy!


It shouldn't cost that much to make using free waste vegetable oil (or
yellow grease.) And it should run in any diesel engine *without*
conversion. Conversion and/or blending with normal diesel fuel is when
you want to burn straight vegetable oil.

It has gotten hard to find caustic soda in small quantities, and that's
one of the raw materials (that and methanol) used to crack the
triglycerides. I wanted to try making just a quart or two of biodiesel
as an experiment, but Red Devil has stopped making lye, and I can't find
the Roebic heavy duty drain cleaner that is also pure lye. (I think
maybe it has been discontinued also.)

I think E85 gasoline can be used in place of the methanol, but then you
have to use potassium hydroxide for the catalyst.

Bob

In article ,
says...


Rod Speed wrote:

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an example
of a crop that is produced in the first world using industrial scale
agriculture that doesnt get used in the low labor cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

Depends on the specific agriculture you are talking about.

Depends on the going rate for wages.

It depends on a hell of a lot more than just that. There's a reason
you dont see much industrial scale agriculture in the third world.

Why would they need it ?

Oh, a few tiny details like producing enough to eat etc.

You think they're starving ?


In India $80 p.c.m. is a decent wage for industrial workers if they can get it.

Agricultural workers will be on a fraction of that.

Irrelevant to that silly claim about US agriculture.

What claim ?

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to find it in the quoting at the top.

About labour ? That's someone else's claim.

Dumb donkey, haven't you learned to not argue with Ronny? I know
it takes a while to learn the lesson. Ten years ago Ron made some
sense. Apparently age has taken its toll.

--
Keith

krw wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an
example of a crop that is produced in the first world using
industrial scale agriculture that doesnt get used in the low
labor cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

Depends on the specific agriculture you are talking about.

Depends on the going rate for wages.

It depends on a hell of a lot more than just that. There's a reason
you dont see much industrial scale agriculture in the third world.

Why would they need it ?

Oh, a few tiny details like producing enough to eat etc.

You think they're starving ?

In India $80 p.c.m. is a decent wage for industrial workers if they can get it.

Agricultural workers will be on a fraction of that.

Irrelevant to that silly claim about US agriculture.

What claim ?

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to find it in the quoting at the top.

About labour ? That's someone else's claim.

Dumb donkey, haven't you learned to not argue with Ronny?
I know it takes a while to learn the lesson. Ten years ago
Ron made some sense. Apparently age has taken its toll.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

In article ,
says...
krw wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an
example of a crop that is produced in the first world using
industrial scale agriculture that doesnt get used in the low
labor cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

Depends on the specific agriculture you are talking about.

Depends on the going rate for wages.

It depends on a hell of a lot more than just that. There's a reason
you dont see much industrial scale agriculture in the third world.

Why would they need it ?

Oh, a few tiny details like producing enough to eat etc.

You think they're starving ?

In India $80 p.c.m. is a decent wage for industrial workers if they can get it.

Agricultural workers will be on a fraction of that.

Irrelevant to that silly claim about US agriculture.

What claim ?

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to find it in the quoting at the top.

About labour ? That's someone else's claim.

Dumb donkey, haven't you learned to not argue with Ronny?
I know it takes a while to learn the lesson. Ten years ago
Ron made some sense. Apparently age has taken its toll.

Never ever could bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

Never could find a new line.




--
Keith

Eeyore wrote:

Yes it does.

An OEM license of XP Home costs the manufacturer between $45 and $65
depending on the quantity purchased, with XP Professional costing
another $20-30.

On a low-end PC this is more than any other single component, including
the CPU, disk drive, Motherboard, or RAM (512MB). On higher end PCs the
OS is not the most expensive part, as the larger drives, higher-end CPUs
and increased amount of RAM push up the costs of these other components.

This is why there's a big incentive to sell higher end machines, the OS
is a fixed cost no matter how much the machine costs.

SMS wrote:

An OEM license of XP Home costs the manufacturer between $45 and $65 depending on the quantity
purchased, with XP Professional costing another $20-30.

You've just plucked those numbers out of your arse.

On a low-end PC this is more than any other single component,
including the CPU, disk drive, Motherboard, or RAM (512MB).

Pity about the monitor.

On higher end PCs the OS is not the most expensive part, as the larger drives, higher-end CPUs and
increased amount of RAM push up the costs of these other components.

This is why there's a big incentive to sell higher end machines, the OS is a fixed cost no matter
how much the machine costs.

Mindlessly silly. Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

krw wrote:
In article .com,
says...
Rod Speed wrote:
I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an example
of a crop that is produced in the first world using industrial scale
agriculture that doesnt get used in the low labor cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

That which is mechanized; corn, soy beans, wheat, etc.

The labor imports itself from across the border.

Something like 24% of the agricultural labor force is =3Fimported=3F.

Unfortunately, a lot of agriculture is not easily mechanized, especially
fruit harvesting. No one's designed a strawberry picking machine yet.
For apples sent to be processed for juice or sauce, they can shake the
tree, but for apples to be sold as whole fruit they have to pick them
because they don't want them bruised.

About 45% of fruit harvesting, and 25% of vegetable harvesting is still
down by hand.

SMS wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Yes it does.

An OEM license of XP Home costs the manufacturer between $45 and $65
depending on the quantity purchased, with XP Professional costing
another $20-30.

On a low-end PC this is more than any other single component, including
the CPU, disk drive, Motherboard, or RAM (512MB). On higher end PCs the
OS is not the most expensive part, as the larger drives, higher-end CPUs
and increased amount of RAM push up the costs of these other components.

This is why there's a big incentive to sell higher end machines, the OS
is a fixed cost no matter how much the machine costs.

Exactly.

Graham

Rod Speed wrote:

Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

Graham

SMS wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

Yes it does.

An OEM license of XP Home costs the manufacturer between $45 and $65
depending on the quantity purchased, with XP Professional costing
another $20-30.

On a low-end PC this is more than any other single component, including
the CPU, disk drive, Motherboard, or RAM (512MB). On higher end PCs the
OS is not the most expensive part, as the larger drives, higher-end CPUs
and increased amount of RAM push up the costs of these other components.

This is why there's a big incentive to sell higher end machines, the OS
is a fixed cost no matter how much the machine costs.

I forgot to mention, that with Vista, Microsoft raised the price to
manufacturer's by 10% over the cost of XP Home. So while other
components in the PC are decreasing, the cost of the OS is actually
going up significantly. If your machines aren't WHQL certified, and it's
becoming harder due to Vista, you get to pay more as well.

In article ,
says...
krw wrote:
In article .com,
says...
Rod Speed wrote:
I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an example
of a crop that is produced in the first world using industrial scale
agriculture that doesnt get used in the low labor cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

That which is mechanized; corn, soy beans, wheat, etc.

The labor imports itself from across the border.

Something like 24% of the agricultural labor force is =3Fimported=3F.

Unfortunately, a lot of agriculture is not easily mechanized, especially
fruit harvesting. No one's designed a strawberry picking machine yet.

Keyword: yet. If labor costs rise above some point, one will
magically appear.

For apples sent to be processed for juice or sauce, they can shake the
tree, but for apples to be sold as whole fruit they have to pick them
because they don't want them bruised.

TOday, though I hear this one is closer to mechanization.

About 45% of fruit harvesting, and 25% of vegetable harvesting is still
down by hand.

That doesn't change the 24% number (imported ag labor force) above.

--
Keith

Eeyore wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

Graham

LOL, it's true, they do have an OS. And even a network!

On vehicles, the push to sell high end cars is for the same sort of
reason. The labor cost to assemble a car doesn't vary much between a
low-end compact, and a high-end luxury car. The components are more
expensive, there is more steel, a bigger engine, etc., but the labor is
one of the biggest costs, and it's fixed. So they make a lot more profit
on the high end cars, even though the components are more expensive.

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

No they dont. Thats not an OS, thats just the code in the electronic controls.

krw wrote:

Keyword: yet. If labor costs rise above some point, one will
magically appear.

No, it won't appear by magic. It would appear if someone designs it.

There's another reason for the lack of mechanization as well, the
mechanized machinery requires more space between rows, which decreases
the yield per acre. I was visiting a winery up in Sonoma county, and the
owner was explaining how he and the next winery over had increased the
row spacing of the vines in order to allow for mechanize grape picking,
because labor was so hard to come by. He felt that yielding less grapes
per acre was worth the advantage of being able to pick by machine if
necessary.

SMS wrote
krw wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I wasnt talking about corn as a source of veg oil, just as an
example of a crop that is produced in the first world using
industrial scale agriculture that doesnt get used in the low labor
cost countrys.

The U.S. *is* a low labor cost country when it comes to agriculture.

That which is mechanized; corn, soy beans, wheat, etc.

The labor imports itself from across the border.

Something like 24% of the agricultural labor force is =3Fimported=3F.

Unfortunately, a lot of agriculture is not easily mechanized,

Depends entirely on how you define a lot.

especially fruit harvesting. No one's designed a strawberry picking
machine yet. For apples sent to be processed for juice or sauce, they can shake the tree, but for
apples to be sold as whole fruit they have to pick them because they don't want them bruised.

About 45% of fruit harvesting, and 25% of vegetable harvesting is still down by hand.

That last is overstated. And it doesnt have to be done
without humans involved to be mechanised anyway.

Rod Speed wrote:

Eeyore wrote

Rod Speed wrote


Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.


Yes they do.


No they dont.

google: rtos automotive
437,000 hits

Dan Bloomquist wrote:

google: rtos automotive
437,000 hits

The early automotive computers were just running some microcode to do
engine management. The newer computers are doing a lot more than
managing the fuel mixture, and there is indeed an operating system,
often more than just one.

The CAN controllers have finally fallen in price enough that the vehicle
wiring has become much simpler, but the replacement cost to the owner if
one of the CAN targets needs to be replaced is outrageously high.

SMS wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
SMS wrote

An OEM license of XP Home costs the manufacturer between $45 and $65 depending on the quantity
purchased, with XP Professional costing another $20-30.

You've just plucked those numbers out of your arse.

On a low-end PC this is more than any other single component,
including the CPU, disk drive, Motherboard, or RAM (512MB).

Pity about the monitor.

On higher end PCs the OS is not the most expensive part, as the larger drives, higher-end CPUs
and increased amount of RAM push up the costs of these other components.

This is why there's a big incentive to sell higher end machines, the OS is a fixed cost no
matter how much the machine costs.

Mindlessly silly. Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

LOL, it's true, they do have an OS.

Clearly wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit it on its lard arse.

And even a network!

Irrelevant.

On vehicles, the push to sell high end cars is for the same sort of reason.

No it isnt with the OS being discussed.

The labor cost to assemble a car doesn't vary much between a low-end compact, and a high-end
luxury car.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed, THE PRICE OF THE OS.

The components are more expensive, there is more steel, a bigger engine, etc., but the labor is
one of the biggest costs, and it's fixed.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed, THE PRICE OF THE OS.

So they make a lot more profit on the high end cars, even though the components are more
expensive.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed, THE PRICE OF THE OS.

Dan Bloomquist wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

No they dont.

google: rtos automotive
437,000 hits

google: aliens
37,500,000 hits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

A microwave oven doesnt have an OS either.

SMS wrote

The early automotive computers were just running some microcode to do engine management. The newer
computers are doing a lot more than managing the fuel mixture,

Doesnt make it an OS, the microcode is just doing more.

and there is indeed an operating system,

Nope.

often more than just one.

You clearly wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit you on your lard arse.

The CAN controllers have finally fallen in price enough that the vehicle wiring has become much
simpler, but the replacement cost to the owner if one of the CAN targets needs to be replaced is
outrageously high.

Irrelevant to whether its got an OS.

SMS wrote
krw wrote

Keyword: yet. If labor costs rise above some point, one will magically appear.

No, it won't appear by magic. It would appear if someone designs it.

Pathetic, really.

There's another reason for the lack of mechanization as well, the mechanized machinery requires
more space between rows, which decreases the yield per acre.

Nope, all thats mechanised now can use the normal row spacing.

I was visiting a winery up in Sonoma county, and the owner was explaining how he and the next
winery over had increased the row spacing of the vines in order to allow for mechanize grape
picking, because labor was so hard to come by.

Have fun explaining how all of ours that used to be manually
harvested changed over to mechanical harvesting without replanting.

He felt that yielding less grapes per acre was worth the advantage of being able to pick by
machine if necessary.

See above.

SMS wrote:

SMS wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

Yes it does.

An OEM license of XP Home costs the manufacturer between $45 and $65
depending on the quantity purchased, with XP Professional costing
another $20-30.

On a low-end PC this is more than any other single component, including
the CPU, disk drive, Motherboard, or RAM (512MB). On higher end PCs the
OS is not the most expensive part, as the larger drives, higher-end CPUs
and increased amount of RAM push up the costs of these other components.

This is why there's a big incentive to sell higher end machines, the OS
is a fixed cost no matter how much the machine costs.

I forgot to mention, that with Vista, Microsoft raised the price to
manufacturer's by 10% over the cost of XP Home. So while other
components in the PC are decreasing, the cost of the OS is actually
going up significantly. If your machines aren't WHQL certified, and it's
becoming harder due to Vista, you get to pay more as well.

What's WHQL certified ?

Graham

Rod Speed wrote:

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

No they dont. Thats not an OS, thats just the code in the electronic controls.

You need to read up a bit.

OS needn't mean something like Windows or Linux or even DOS btw.

Graham

Rod Speed wrote:

SMS wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Mindlessly silly. Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

LOL, it's true, they do have an OS.

Clearly wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit it on its lard arse.

Automotive Grade Linux Features

Automotive Grade Linux is specifically engineered to meet automotive industry requirements, including
real-time determinism, fast boot-time and quick in-vehicle bus communication response time - all within
a surprisingly small footprint. Automotive Grade Linux offers the following benefits:

With an average user space latency of 50 microseconds and 48-microsecond worst-case interrupt latency
under heavy load, Automotive Grade Linux has quick response time to interrupts and low user-space
latency.

Automotive Grade Linux complies with the low memory resources of automotive hardware by efficiently
fitting into 1-2 MB of Flash.

Optimized for various sleep modes, Automotive Grade Linux enables controller-level power management for
CPU and peripherals.

Automotive Grade Linux interfaces with in-vehicle networks, such as the CAN bus, and has been
engineered to respond to incoming responses to meet automotive specifications.

Critical applications can be operational within 50ms after power on, and system and application boot
times are below 1 - 2 seconds after power on.

Detailed Features
Automotive Grade Linux is based on open standards such as Java™ and POSIX threading to support
automotive software development. Striving to meet the many technical needs in automotive development,
Automotive Grade Linux is designed to provide middleware for integration with a full range of
technologies, including:
Bluetooth®
Wireless networking
GPS navigation
Voice recognition
Most drivers for streaming entertainment and communication protocols for use in fleet management, such
as the SAE J1587 protocol

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...01272686884403


Graham

Rod Speed wrote:

Dan Bloomquist wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

No they dont.

google: rtos automotive
437,000 hits

google: aliens
37,500,000 hits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

A microwave oven doesnt have an OS either.

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...01272686884403

Automotive Grade Linux Features

Automotive Grade Linux is specifically engineered to meet automotive industry
requirements, including real-time determinism, fast boot-time and quick
in-vehicle bus communication response time - all within a surprisingly small
footprint. Automotive Grade Linux offers the following benefits:

With an average user space latency of 50 microseconds and 48-microsecond
worst-case interrupt latency under heavy load, Automotive Grade Linux has quick
response time to interrupts and low user-space latency.

Automotive Grade Linux complies with the low memory resources of automotive
hardware by efficiently fitting into 1-2 MB of Flash.

Optimized for various sleep modes, Automotive Grade Linux enables
controller-level power management for CPU and peripherals.

Automotive Grade Linux interfaces with in-vehicle networks, such as the CAN bus,
and has been engineered to respond to incoming responses to meet automotive
specifications.

Critical applications can be operational within 50ms after power on, and system
and application boot times are below 1 - 2 seconds after power on.

Detailed Features
Automotive Grade Linux is based on open standards such as Java™ and POSIX
threading to support automotive software development. Striving to meet the many
technical needs in automotive development, Automotive Grade Linux is designed to
provide middleware for integration with a full range of technologies, including:

Bluetooth®
Wireless networking
GPS navigation
Voice recognition
Most drivers for streaming entertainment and communication protocols for use in
fleet management, such as the SAE J1587 protocol

Rod Speed wrote:

SMS wrote

The early automotive computers were just running some microcode to do engine management. The newer
computers are doing a lot more than managing the fuel mixture,

Doesnt make it an OS, the microcode is just doing more.

Automotive Grade Linux Features

Automotive Grade Linux is specifically engineered to meet automotive industry requirements, including
real-time determinism, fast boot-time and quick in-vehicle bus communication response time - all within
a surprisingly small footprint. Automotive Grade Linux offers the following benefits:

With an average user space latency of 50 microseconds and 48-microsecond worst-case interrupt latency
under heavy load, Automotive Grade Linux has quick response time to interrupts and low user-space
latency.

Automotive Grade Linux complies with the low memory resources of automotive hardware by efficiently
fitting into 1-2 MB of Flash.

Optimized for various sleep modes, Automotive Grade Linux enables controller-level power management for
CPU and peripherals.

Automotive Grade Linux interfaces with in-vehicle networks, such as the CAN bus, and has been engineered
to respond to incoming responses to meet automotive specifications.

Critical applications can be operational within 50ms after power on, and system and application boot
times are below 1 - 2 seconds after power on.

Detailed Features
Automotive Grade Linux is based on open standards such as Java™ and POSIX threading to support
automotive software development. Striving to meet the many technical needs in automotive development,
Automotive Grade Linux is designed to provide middleware for integration with a full range of
technologies, including:
Bluetooth®
Wireless networking
GPS navigation
Voice recognition
Most drivers for streaming entertainment and communication protocols for use in fleet management, such
as the SAE J1587 protocol

Rod Speed wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

This is right from your reference.

"An operating system (OS) is a computer program that
manages the hardware and
software resources of a computer.
At the foundation of all system software, the OS
performs basic tasks such as controlling and
allocating memory,
prioritizing system requests,
controlling input and output devices,
facilitating networking,
and managing files."

What part of most Real Time Operating Systems, "RTOS",
is not part of your reference above. Many complex
systems such as some cars use an RTOS.

A microwave oven doesn't have an OS either.

Possibly not. But certainly will in the future.

Duane

--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm[*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
(my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===

"Duane C. Johnson" wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

This is right from your reference.

"An operating system (OS) is a computer program that
manages the hardware and
software resources of a computer.
At the foundation of all system software, the OS
performs basic tasks such as controlling and
allocating memory,
prioritizing system requests,
controlling input and output devices,
facilitating networking,
and managing files."

What part of most Real Time Operating Systems, "RTOS",
is not part of your reference above. Many complex
systems such as some cars use an RTOS.

A microwave oven doesn't have an OS either.

Possibly not. But certainly will in the future.

It'll probably have an IP address too.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

What's WHQL certified ?

What does WHQL stand for?

Windows Hardware Quality Labs (Microsoft)

http://www.acronymfinder.com/acronym.aspx?rec={940EEE5C-89E8-11D4-8351-00C04FC2C2BF}

Graham

Duane

--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm[*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
(my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===

Eeyore wrote:

What's WHQL certified ?

Graham

Windows Hardware Qualification Labs.

Microsoft has a very detailed program to qualify hardware for Windows.
There are minimum performance requirements, boot time requirements,
requirements in terms of what hardware is permitted and forbidden, etc.
If a manufacturer achieves WHQL certification on a platform then the
operating system costs less. Manufacturers are permitted to self-certify
if Microsoft qualifies them, or they can send systems to Microsoft for
qualification (it isn't cheap!)

I was working on one project where we couldn't meet the required boot
time, due to the extra bits of software in the XP Tablet Edition. The
manufacturer didn't care that the system was a few seconds short of the
requirement, except for the fact that it would cost them more for the OS
if they couldn't certify the system. Eventually they received a waiver
from Microsoft, which is a hassle, but Microsoft does grant them if you
have a good reason.

The way I found out how much at least one top-tier manufacturer was
paying for the OS was when they complained to me about the system being
too slow, and how much the OS would cost them if we didn't fix the
problem for them. Like many top-tier manufacturers, this company does
very little design, it's all farmed out to design houses or to the
actual manufacturing company.

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
SMS wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Mindlessly silly. Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

LOL, it's true, they do have an OS.

Clearly wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit it on its lard arse.

Automotive Grade Linux Features

Not used in the absolute vast bulk of engine control systems.

Keep desperately digging, you'll be out in china any day now, again.

Duane C. Johnson wrote
Rod Speed wrote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

This is right from your reference.

"An operating system (OS) is a computer program that
manages the hardware and software resources of a computer.

And that doesnt happen with engine control
systems in cars, most obviously with the software.

At the foundation of all system software, the OS
performs basic tasks such as controlling and
allocating memory,
prioritizing system requests,
controlling input and output devices,
facilitating networking,
and managing files."

That last doesnt happen with engine control systems either.

What part of most Real Time Operating Systems, "RTOS", is not part of your reference above. Many
complex systems such as some cars use an RTOS.

See above.

A microwave oven doesn't have an OS either.

Possibly not. But certainly will in the future.

Wrong, as always. ALL a microwave needs is microcode, stupid.

AND even if cars did have OSs, and they dont, that is not the reason car
manufacturers make more money on the more expensive cars anyway.

Eeyore wrote:
"Duane C. Johnson" wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

This is right from your reference.

"An operating system (OS) is a computer program that
manages the hardware and
software resources of a computer.
At the foundation of all system software, the OS
performs basic tasks such as controlling and
allocating memory,
prioritizing system requests,
controlling input and output devices,
facilitating networking,
and managing files."

What part of most Real Time Operating Systems, "RTOS",
is not part of your reference above. Many complex
systems such as some cars use an RTOS.

A microwave oven doesn't have an OS either.

Possibly not. But certainly will in the future.

It'll probably have an IP address too.

Doesnt mean its got an OS. Plenty of stuff has an IP and no OS.

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

No they dont. Thats not an OS, thats just the code in the electronic controls.

You need to read up a bit.

You need to take Bull****ting 101.

OS needn't mean something like Windows or Linux or even DOS btw.

No one ever said it did. There is however a
difference between code in a computer and an OS.

AND even if cars did have OSs, and they dont, that is not the reason car
manufacturers make more money on the more expensive cars anyway.

Rod Speed wrote:

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
SMS wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Mindlessly silly. Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

LOL, it's true, they do have an OS.

Clearly wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit it on its lard arse.

Automotive Grade Linux Features

Not used in the absolute vast bulk of engine control systems.

That's the direction it's heading in.


Keep desperately digging, you'll be out in china any day now, again.

I've been there already.

Graham

Rod Speed wrote:

Duane C. Johnson wrote
Rod Speed wrote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

This is right from your reference.

"An operating system (OS) is a computer program that
manages the hardware and software resources of a computer.

And that doesnt happen with engine control
systems in cars, most obviously with the software.

Cars have more computers than just the ECU now.

Graham

Rod Speed wrote:

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Have fun explaining why there is a push to sell high
end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

No they dont. Thats not an OS, thats just the code in the electronic controls.

You need to read up a bit.

You need to take Bull****ting 101.

OS needn't mean something like Windows or Linux or even DOS btw.

No one ever said it did. There is however a
difference between code in a computer and an OS.

AND even if cars did have OSs, and they dont,

Your info is out of date.


that is not the reason car
manufacturers make more money on the more expensive cars anyway.

I never said it was.

It's to reduce amnufacturing cost.

Graham

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
SMS wrote
Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Mindlessly silly. Have fun explaining why there is a push to
sell high end cars too, when those dont even have an OS.

Yes they do.

LOL, it's true, they do have an OS.

Clearly wouldnt know what an OS was if it bit it on its lard arse.

Automotive Grade Linux Features

Not used in the absolute vast bulk of engine control systems.

That's the direction it's heading in.

Nope, you watch.

Keep desperately digging, you'll be out in china any day now, again.

I've been there already.

Pathetic, really.

Eeyore wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Duane C. Johnson wrote
Rod Speed wrote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system

This is right from your reference.

"An operating system (OS) is a computer program that
manages the hardware and software resources of a computer.

And that doesnt happen with engine control
systems in cars, most obviously with the software.

Cars have more computers than just the ECU now.

Still dont have an OS in the absolute vast bulk of them.