What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick

P.S.: alt.home.repairs is one of the ten best newsgroups on USENET.
I like to believe misc.taxes.moderated (which I moderate) is
in the same league.

Dick Adams wrote:
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick

P.S.: alt.home.repairs is one of the ten best newsgroups on USENET.
I like to believe misc.taxes.moderated (which I moderate) is
in the same league.


Simplest/cheapest method is to use a string level. More
accurate/expensive is to use a laser level.

Dick Adams wrote:
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick

P.S.: alt.home.repairs is one of the ten best newsgroups on USENET.

Have any studies to back that up?

I like to believe misc.taxes.moderated (which I moderate) is
in the same league.

The general idea is to elevate the level line so you won't have to bend
over and use a tape measure or better yet a folding rule to measure
down to the line. You'll be measuring down so the bigger dimension is
at a lower elevation.

You can use a laser level on a tripod or set up on a patio table, a
water level or use a line level on a string tied between two stakes
driven into the ground. If you can't drive a stake at one end, say
into the patio, you only need one end secured and you can swing the
line, make sure it's level with the line level and take a reading.

If you're using this as ammunition, the more accurate the readings the
better. The laser level and the water level would give equally
accurate readings if used correctly. The line level would be the least
accurate. A water level would be my recommendation.
http://www.buildeazy.com/fp_waterlevel.html

What's the reason for needing the grade readings? Are you having
drainage problems?

R

Dick Adams wrote:
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick


How about just using a 4' bubble level (after all, how big is your
patio?). If it's level, there's no slope. If it slopes, shim the one
end until it IS level. The thinkness of the shim, divided by 4, is the
slope per foot. Check a few spots.

Who do you intend to go after? The prime contractor with the "quality
reputation" should be more than willing to come out and verify the job
his sub did...and in your presence.

cavedweller wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick


How about just using a 4' bubble level (after all, how big is your
patio?). If it's level, there's no slope. If it slopes, shim the one
end until it IS level. The thinkness of the shim, divided by 4, is the
slope per foot. Check a few spots.

Who do you intend to go after? The prime contractor with the "quality
reputation" should be more than willing to come out and verify the job
his sub did...and in your presence.

Everybody knows what "thinkness" is, right?

wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:

What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick

P.S.: alt.home.repairs is one of the ten best newsgroups on USENET.
I like to believe misc.taxes.moderated (which I moderate) is
in the same league.



Simplest/cheapest method is to use a string level. More
accurate/expensive is to use a laser level.


Ayup. but you can get close enough to see if there's a problem with a
string level. Just drive a small stake in the ground outside the deck
and tie the string to it, pull it to the siding of the house, adjust
until the bubble says level and measure height at house and edge of
deck. the difference between the two measurements is your rise, I
assume you already know the run.

good luck

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?



One simple way is to take a 4' level and lay it on the patio. It should
drop off about 1" for every 4 feet. If you stick a 1-by under the level, it
should read level.

RicodJour wrote:

What's the reason for needing the grade readings? Are you having
drainage problems?

Big time!

Dick

"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?



One simple way is to take a 4' level and lay it on the patio. It should
drop off about 1" for every 4 feet. If you stick a 1-by under the level,
it should read level.


Dick,

Buck is right on this one. 1/4" per foot is considered a normal drainage
factor. If you have problems a little more would not hurt if the width or
run is less than 12'. Personally I like 1/2" slope per foot.

You set the four foot level on the slab or form. On the downhill side you
place something that is 1" thick. If it reads level, the bubble on dead
center, you have 1/4" slope per foot. To do the 1/2" slope you would use
something 2" thick at the lower end.

A good compromise between the two measurements would be the level resting on
the form and a 2x4 placed flat at the other end. If the level reads "level"
you have about 3/8" drop per foot of run.

Colbyt

Dick Adams wrote:
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?


The easiest way is to put a protractor and level on the patio.

The next easiest way is to put a marble at the high end and time how long it
takes to get to the other. Knowing the distance it traveled and the time it
took, you can figure out the slope.

It's been a long time since I had to figure the cosine of anything...

Colbyt wrote:
"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?



One simple way is to take a 4' level and lay it on the patio. It should
drop off about 1" for every 4 feet. If you stick a 1-by under the level,
it should read level.


Dick,

Buck is right on this one. 1/4" per foot is considered a normal drainage
factor. If you have problems a little more would not hurt if the width or
run is less than 12'. Personally I like 1/2" slope per foot.

You set the four foot level on the slab or form. On the downhill side you
place something that is 1" thick. If it reads level, the bubble on dead
center, you have 1/4" slope per foot. To do the 1/2" slope you would use
something 2" thick at the lower end.

A good compromise between the two measurements would be the level resting on
the form and a 2x4 placed flat at the other end. If the level reads "level"
you have about 3/8" drop per foot of run.

Colbyt



IMO, 1/4 inch per foot slope is excessive and 1/2" per foot is a
disaster, which will be obvious to the the eye. Normal practice is
about 1/8" per foot, which is plenty for water to run off, which is all
you need.

wrote:


IMO, 1/4 inch per foot slope is excessive and 1/2" per foot is a
disaster, which will be obvious to the the eye. Normal practice is
about 1/8" per foot, which is plenty for water to run off, which is all
you need.

You got it.

Just curious why the OP needs all this when a garden hose applied to
the patio in the presence of the contractor will make the point.

cavedweller wrote:
wrote:


IMO, 1/4 inch per foot slope is excessive and 1/2" per foot is a
disaster, which will be obvious to the the eye. Normal practice is
about 1/8" per foot, which is plenty for water to run off, which is all
you need.

You got it.

Just curious why the OP needs all this when a garden hose applied to
the patio in the presence of the contractor will make the point.

Were it me, I would want to go into thie discussion armed with
knowledge. As in "what is sthe exact slope" What is the required
slope per the code (if it exists) or per good building practices (from
the library or research on line).

Finding the slope is a simple few minute job using one of several
cheap, fast methods.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
cavedweller wrote:
wrote:


IMO, 1/4 inch per foot slope is excessive and 1/2" per foot is a
disaster, which will be obvious to the the eye. Normal practice is
about 1/8" per foot, which is plenty for water to run off, which is all
you need.

You got it.

Just curious why the OP needs all this when a garden hose applied to
the patio in the presence of the contractor will make the point.

Were it me, I would want to go into thie discussion armed with
knowledge.

No question.

As in "what is sthe exact slope" What is the required
slope per the code (if it exists) or per good building practices (from
the library or research on line).

No question here either, except those things might have been done
before giving the job to the "quality" (per the OP) contractor. Look,
for instance, at the various opinions expressed as to what is the
"correct" slope for what most seem to be assuming is a concrete patio.


Finding the slope is a simple few minute job using one of several
cheap, fast methods.

Without doubt...but it doesn't alter the fact that I'm still curious.

On 2006-11-19, wrote:

IMO, 1/4 inch per foot slope is excessive and 1/2" per foot is a
disaster, which will be obvious to the eye. Normal practice is
about 1/8" per foot, which is plenty for water to run off, which is
all you need.

What about for a patio adjoining a house? 1/8" per foot is the
"proper" slope for a patio, but building codes typically specify that
around the foundation there should be a 6" drop over 10 feet, with an
exception allowing 1/4" per foot where conditions warrant. So should
a patio adjoining a house have a 1/4" per foot slope for the first ten
feet away from the house?

Thanks, Wayne

HeyBub wrote:
Dick Adams wrote:
What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?


The easiest way is to put a protractor and level on the patio.

The next easiest way is to put a marble at the high end and time how long it
takes to get to the other. Knowing the distance it traveled and the time it
took, you can figure out the slope.

There are some factors that will have major impact on the marble
rolling and would make it an unreliable measurement. Any surface
irregularity such as the joints between pavers, any dips in a poured
concrete surface, the smoothness of the patio material, etc.

Short of doing tons of test there's no way you could find a reliable
average number, and even if _you_ felt the test was reliable there's no
way a contractor would accept playing with marbles as an acceptable
indication of the slope. The OP also mentioned that they're trying to
avoid bending over...

R

Wayne Whitney wrote:

What about for a patio adjoining a house? 1/8" per foot is the
"proper" slope for a patio, but building codes typically specify that
around the foundation there should be a 6" drop over 10 feet, with an
exception allowing 1/4" per foot where conditions warrant. So should
a patio adjoining a house have a 1/4" per foot slope for the first ten
feet away from the house?

No. The slope of a permeable soil surface requires a greater slope.
An impermeable patio surface does not.

R

RicodJour wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:

What about for a patio adjoining a house? 1/8" per foot is the
"proper" slope for a patio, but building codes typically specify that
around the foundation there should be a 6" drop over 10 feet, with an
exception allowing 1/4" per foot where conditions warrant. So should
a patio adjoining a house have a 1/4" per foot slope for the first ten
feet away from the house?

No. The slope of a permeable soil surface requires a greater slope.
An impermeable patio surface does not.

R

....and unless I've missed something, we still don't know what the
surface of the patio. I know the OP said he had concrete in his hips.

cavedweller wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:

What about for a patio adjoining a house? 1/8" per foot is the
"proper" slope for a patio, but building codes typically specify that
around the foundation there should be a 6" drop over 10 feet, with an
exception allowing 1/4" per foot where conditions warrant. So should
a patio adjoining a house have a 1/4" per foot slope for the first ten
feet away from the house?

No. The slope of a permeable soil surface requires a greater slope.
An impermeable patio surface does not.

R

...and unless I've missed something, we still don't know what the
surface of the patio. I know the OP said he had concrete in his hips.

The missing "is". 8))

Ayup. but you can get close enough to see if there's a problem with a
string level. Just drive a small stake in the ground outside the deck
and tie the string to it, pull it to the siding of the house, adjust
until the bubble says level and measure height at house and edge of
deck. the difference between the two measurements is your rise, I
assume you already know the run.


Or you can just pour water on it, and see if it runs off.
What's a patio supposed to be? 1:50?

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 21:10:26 -0000, (Dick Adams)
wrote:

What are some simple ways to measure the grade of my patio?

Without ranting and raving, I contract with a quality reputation
company to put it in and they subcontracted it to a fly-by-night
contractor who appears to use day laborers. I want the measurements
in hand when I go after them.

One constraint is my wife will have to do all the bending because
I have two slugs of concrete holding my spine together. Since
she is not mechanically inclined, it needs to be as simple as
possible and sill be accurate.

I did try the string method, but we had communication problems.
Maybe I just need a neighbor to help me do it.

Constructive suggestions are always valued.

Dick

P.S.: alt.home.repairs is one of the ten best newsgroups on USENET.
I like to believe misc.taxes.moderated (which I moderate) is
in the same league.


Get a piece of clear tubing the length you want to measure. stake it
at each end of the patio with the ends up and fill it with water.
Make sure both ends are above the rest of the tubing and that their is
some unfilled tube at both ends. measure down from the water level to
the patio at each end. Subtract. You have a very accurate measure of
the total drop. Divide by the length to get the fall per foot.

Doesn't take into account dips and humps if that is part of your
problem.

Frank