Well, I got a little more money than I was expecting to this week, so
last night I went out and bought some more tools that I thought I'd be
using a lot... I've realized that there are a few tools that I've
always had access to but never bought for myself, that now I have to buy
because I have my own place and I'd like to be able to do work here...
anyway, I got myself a new Sawzall and a 4-1/2" angle grinder, among
other things. This AM I just plugged them in and ran them to make sure
they worked before throwing out the packaging. The girlie yelled down
from upstairs, "you know, when you turn that on, the lights dim up
here..." WTF? I was using them in a 20A kitchen counter receptacle
which has nothing else on the circuit. The 15A lighting circuit for
upstairs is completely separate (and may or may not be on the same
phase, I don't remember.) Is this an issue, and what could cause it?
I'm guessing poor neutral connection at the panel?

Granted I did buy a real honest-to-god Milwaukee Sawzall and a good
Milwaukee angle grinder, not some cheap lightweight crap, but I think
both are rated at 10A which I would assume a 12/2 branch circuit would
handle no problem.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
The girlie yelled down from upstairs, "you know, when you turn that on,
the lights dim up here..." WTF? I was using them in a 20A kitchen
counter receptacle which has nothing else on the circuit. The 15A
lighting circuit for upstairs is completely separate (and may or may not
be on the same phase, I don't remember.) Is this an issue, and what could
cause it? I'm guessing poor neutral connection at the panel?

Granted I did buy a real honest-to-god Milwaukee Sawzall and a good
Milwaukee angle grinder, not some cheap lightweight crap, but I think both
are rated at 10A which I would assume a 12/2 branch circuit would handle
no problem.

Other factors come in play. Think of the electric supply as a water supply.
There is only so many watts coming into the house. When there is a surge at
one outlet, there will be a drop at another. Some tools take quite a bit of
power to start up, well beyond the 10A running load. Sort of the same as
when you are in the shower and the dishwasher suddenly fills.

At the same time you started up that grinder, the refrigerator, heater, TV,
lights, etc were using some of the available power so a surge was very
noticeable.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Well, I got a little more money than I was expecting to this week, so
last night I went out and bought some more tools that I thought I'd be
using a lot... I've realized that there are a few tools that I've
always had access to but never bought for myself, that now I have to
buy because I have my own place and I'd like to be able to do work
here... anyway, I got myself a new Sawzall and a 4-1/2" angle
grinder, among other things. This AM I just plugged them in and ran
them to make sure they worked before throwing out the packaging. The
girlie yelled down from upstairs, "you know, when you turn that on,
the lights dim up here..." WTF? I was using them in a 20A kitchen
counter receptacle which has nothing else on the circuit. The 15A
lighting circuit for upstairs is completely separate (and may or may
not be on the same phase, I don't remember.) Is this an issue, and
what could cause it? I'm guessing poor neutral connection at the
panel?
Granted I did buy a real honest-to-god Milwaukee Sawzall and a good
Milwaukee angle grinder, not some cheap lightweight crap, but I think
both are rated at 10A which I would assume a 12/2 branch circuit would
handle no problem.

nate

I agree with Ed. Frankly I would be more worried if they got brighter.
That would be a problem and it does happen.

The question is how much. Within reason it is normal. It also might be
a good indication that your home wiring including the supply my be
undersized for today's use. How old is your home?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Done asume it 12-2

Nate Nagel wrote:

Well, I got a little more money than I was expecting to this week, so
last night I went out and bought some more tools that I thought I'd be
using a lot... I've realized that there are a few tools that I've
always had access to but never bought for myself, that now I have to buy
because I have my own place and I'd like to be able to do work here...
anyway, I got myself a new Sawzall and a 4-1/2" angle grinder, among
other things. This AM I just plugged them in and ran them to make sure
they worked before throwing out the packaging. The girlie yelled down
from upstairs, "you know, when you turn that on, the lights dim up
here..." WTF? I was using them in a 20A kitchen counter receptacle
which has nothing else on the circuit. The 15A lighting circuit for
upstairs is completely separate (and may or may not be on the same
phase, I don't remember.) Is this an issue, and what could cause it?
I'm guessing poor neutral connection at the panel?

Granted I did buy a real honest-to-god Milwaukee Sawzall and a good
Milwaukee angle grinder, not some cheap lightweight crap, but I think
both are rated at 10A which I would assume a 12/2 branch circuit would
handle no problem.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

It may be normal, but it wouldn't hurt to spend some time going around
the house pulling outlets and switches and tightening connections along
with the connections in the main panel and any sub panels. It may be a
bit tedious, but you might find some developing problems.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:

Well, I got a little more money than I was expecting to this week, so
last night I went out and bought some more tools that I thought I'd be
using a lot... I've realized that there are a few tools that I've
always had access to but never bought for myself, that now I have to buy
because I have my own place and I'd like to be able to do work here...
anyway, I got myself a new Sawzall and a 4-1/2" angle grinder, among
other things. This AM I just plugged them in and ran them to make sure
they worked before throwing out the packaging. The girlie yelled down
from upstairs, "you know, when you turn that on, the lights dim up
here..." WTF? I was using them in a 20A kitchen counter receptacle
which has nothing else on the circuit. The 15A lighting circuit for
upstairs is completely separate (and may or may not be on the same
phase, I don't remember.) Is this an issue, and what could cause it?
I'm guessing poor neutral connection at the panel?

Granted I did buy a real honest-to-god Milwaukee Sawzall and a good
Milwaukee angle grinder, not some cheap lightweight crap, but I think
both are rated at 10A which I would assume a 12/2 branch circuit would
handle no problem.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

It may be normal, but it wouldn't hurt to spend some time going around
the house pulling outlets and switches and tightening connections along
with the connections in the main panel and any sub panels. It may be a
bit tedious, but you might find some developing problems.

Pete C.

To answer some other posters, the house was built in the late 40's but
currently has a 200A service. And I *am* currently systematically
going through the house replacing all the receptacles, switches, etc.
and rectifying problems as I find them. I just thought it odd that
this would cause dimming on circuits other than the branch circuit that
I was plugged into, seeing as there's that big fatty cable feeding the
main panel.

nate

N8N wrote:
....

To answer some other posters, the house was built in the late 40's but
currently has a 200A service. And I *am* currently systematically
going through the house replacing all the receptacles, switches, etc.
and rectifying problems as I find them. I just thought it odd that
this would cause dimming on circuits other than the branch circuit
that I was plugged into, seeing as there's that big fatty cable
feeding the main panel.

nate

Good plan. Some heavy draw tools can do it. You may have a marginal
transformer feeding your home. It is not uncommon in older neighborhoods.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:10:29 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

N8N wrote:
...

To answer some other posters, the house was built in the late 40's but
currently has a 200A service. And I *am* currently systematically
going through the house replacing all the receptacles, switches, etc.
and rectifying problems as I find them. I just thought it odd that
this would cause dimming on circuits other than the branch circuit
that I was plugged into, seeing as there's that big fatty cable
feeding the main panel.

nate

Good plan. Some heavy draw tools can do it. You may have a marginal
transformer feeding your home. It is not uncommon in older neighborhoods.

Thats what I was thinking....
Also, since its a kitchen outlet, was a refrig running at the same
time?

Also, is the same neutral being used for the two circuits that were
invloved? If YES, carefully check that neutral connection.

Finally, install a completely separate circuit for you workshop tools.
Of course we all know that those portavble tools get used in other
parts of the house too.

One last thought. Is the light that dimmed connected to a dimmer?
Those dimmers are often sensitive to voltage changes, and the "dim
effect" is more noticable than on a common "switch only' circuit. I
have seen this happen.....

If you got a meter, start watching the voltage in your house. Hook
that meter to the upstairs light, and turn on your power tool in the
same outlet you had it. Have the wife watch the meter, etc....
If your transformer is marginal, ALL lights in the house should dim.
But then too, it depends on what other neighbor houses (on the same
xformer) had running at the time too. They do sell meters that record
voltages, but they are costly.


Mark

That appliance draws trivial power. However wiring has a defect so
significant that even light bulbs are affected. You now have a
diagnostic tool to find that defective wiring - light bulb and Sawzall.


Your first discovery is electrical wiring connection between that
upstairs light and Sawzall's AC receptacle. Are they on same circuit
breaker? If yes, then how are they connected? If not, how are those
circuit breakers related?

No one can provide a useful answer without circuit descriptions and
further tests. But this you do know. That Sawzall and grinder consume
minimal and irrelevant power. Even a smallest 15 amp circuit should not
cause light bulb dimming. If those small power consumers affect light
bulb intensity, then you have a potentially serious wiring problem.

Neutral wire is only one potential reason for failure. But then if
Sawzall caused light bulb intensity change, then so did washer, dryer,
furnace, dishwasher, etc. Needed: more facts including household
wiring descriptions.

One trick: as each circuit breaker is identified, then write that
circuit breaker number on back of receptacle cover plate. Useful
information for solving future problems faster.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Well, I got a little more money than I was expecting to this week, so
last night I went out and bought some more tools that I thought I'd be
using a lot... I've realized that there are a few tools that I've
always had access to but never bought for myself, that now I have to buy
because I have my own place and I'd like to be able to do work here...
anyway, I got myself a new Sawzall and a 4-1/2" angle grinder, among
other things. This AM I just plugged them in and ran them to make sure
they worked before throwing out the packaging. The girlie yelled down
from upstairs, "you know, when you turn that on, the lights dim up
here..." WTF? I was using them in a 20A kitchen counter receptacle
which has nothing else on the circuit. The 15A lighting circuit for
upstairs is completely separate (and may or may not be on the same
phase, I don't remember.) Is this an issue, and what could cause it?
I'm guessing poor neutral connection at the panel?
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
...

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Some heavy draw tools can do it. You may have a marginal
transformer feeding your home. It is not uncommon in older neighborhoods.


JM:

Tell me about it. My neighbor's central a/c makes my lights dim and
VCR clock
reset every time it kicks on. I think the whole bunch of us on the
block should
get together and turn on our dryers to get a new xformer.

Cordially yours:
G P

wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Some heavy draw tools can do it. You may have a marginal
transformer feeding your home. It is not uncommon in older
neighborhoods.


JM:

Tell me about it. My neighbor's central a/c makes my lights dim and
VCR clock
reset every time it kicks on. I think the whole bunch of us on
the block should
get together and turn on our dryers to get a new xformer.

Cordially yours:
G P

Just get everyone to start calling in to the power company and
complaining. That will usually do it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

wrote:
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:10:29 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:


N8N wrote:
...

To answer some other posters, the house was built in the late 40's but
currently has a 200A service. And I *am* currently systematically
going through the house replacing all the receptacles, switches, etc.
and rectifying problems as I find them. I just thought it odd that
this would cause dimming on circuits other than the branch circuit
that I was plugged into, seeing as there's that big fatty cable
feeding the main panel.

nate

Good plan. Some heavy draw tools can do it. You may have a marginal
transformer feeding your home. It is not uncommon in older neighborhoods.


Thats what I was thinking....
Also, since its a kitchen outlet, was a refrig running at the same
time?

Not sure. It's on its own circuit, anyway. (one thing that's actually
done right.)


Also, is the same neutral being used for the two circuits that were
invloved? If YES, carefully check that neutral connection.

No, neutral is separate all the way back to the bus in the panel.


Finally, install a completely separate circuit for you workshop tools.
Of course we all know that those portavble tools get used in other
parts of the house too.

"workshop" is a separate building One of the reasons I was attracted
to the place.


One last thought. Is the light that dimmed connected to a dimmer?
Those dimmers are often sensitive to voltage changes, and the "dim
effect" is more noticable than on a common "switch only' circuit. I
have seen this happen.....


Not the one that she was standing under... only dimmer in the house is
in the dining room.

If you got a meter, start watching the voltage in your house. Hook
that meter to the upstairs light, and turn on your power tool in the
same outlet you had it. Have the wife watch the meter, etc....
If your transformer is marginal, ALL lights in the house should dim.
But then too, it depends on what other neighbor houses (on the same
xformer) had running at the time too. They do sell meters that record
voltages, but they are costly.


Mark

yeah, I *used* to have access to a recorder... that would be useful.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel