Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last night
we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy with a heat
gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion, but is noticably
"tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not talking globs of adhesive
or anything, in fact it isn't really visible at all, except for a little bit
of gloss here an there and some other discoloration of the concrete. But
nothing like big black or yellow/gold blobs of adhesive like I've seen
elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt some
sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and a wire
brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and that helped a
little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or walk on it.

I'm guessing the original floor is circa mid-80's if that matters.

Thanks much for your help -- I'd apprecate any replies as we hope to do some
work on it yet tonight.

-Tim

Tim Fischer spake thus:

Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last night
we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy with a heat
gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion, but is noticably
"tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not talking globs of adhesive
or anything, in fact it isn't really visible at all, except for a little bit
of gloss here an there and some other discoloration of the concrete. But
nothing like big black or yellow/gold blobs of adhesive like I've seen
elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt some
sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and a wire
brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and that helped a
little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or walk on it.

To get rid of the residual sticky stuff, I'd use some low-impact
petroleum solvent: either paint thinner (*not* remover) or charcoal
lighter (naphtha). These are relatively benign, will probably dissolve
some, but not all, of the sticky stuff, and can be removed with any kind
of soap or detergent. (You can use low-odor paint thinner if you're
concerned about the smell.)

After that, if any stickiness remains, try using denatured alcohol
(shellac thinner) the same way. I've found that it sometimes takes a
combined attack of naphtha and alcohol to get rid of certain sticky
substances. As above, wash the alcohol afterwards, though most of it
will just disappear through evaporation.


--
Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War
II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second
Lebanon War.

- Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist
(http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html)

David Nebenzahl writes:

charcoal lighter (naphtha)

Charcoal starter is kerosene.

Naphtha is much lighter. Coleman fuel. Definitely not for charcoal.

Tim Fischer writes:

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt
some sort of chemical strip?

Methylene chloride stripper. Nasty but effective.

Richard J Kinch spake thus:

David Nebenzahl writes:

charcoal lighter (naphtha)

Charcoal starter is kerosene.

Naphtha is much lighter. Coleman fuel. Definitely not for charcoal.

Nope, you're wrong: I also stock kerosene (have 2 portable heaters that
use it), and that's a completely different "product". Easily
recognizable by smell alone.

Both charcoal starter and lighter fluid (e.g., Ronsonol) are naphtha,
which is a lighter fraction than kerosene (paraffin for our UK friends).

You're thinking of "white gas" for Coleman fuel. I'd definitely stay
away from that stuff!


--
Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War
II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second
Lebanon War.

- Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist
(http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html)

David Nebenzahl spake thus:

Richard J Kinch spake thus:

David Nebenzahl writes:

charcoal lighter (naphtha)

Charcoal starter is kerosene.

Naphtha is much lighter. Coleman fuel. Definitely not for charcoal.

Nope, you're wrong: I also stock kerosene (have 2 portable heaters that
use it), and that's a completely different "product". Easily
recognizable by smell alone.

Both charcoal starter and lighter fluid (e.g., Ronsonol) are naphtha,
which is a lighter fraction than kerosene (paraffin for our UK friends).

You're thinking of "white gas" for Coleman fuel. I'd definitely stay
away from that stuff!

Amending my post: boy, this is one confusing area, especially if you try
to get information on the web. A lot of this information seems to be
plain wrong.

So apparently, ordinary charcoal lighter *is* a mixture of naphtha and
kerosene. However, the charcoal lighter I use (mainly to clean stuff)
seems almost identical to pure naphtha, and evaporates at about the same
rate. Kerosene evaporates much more slowly, and leaves an oily residue
behind.

But it isn't the same thing as white gas, of that I'm sure, even though
there are plenty of sites out there that say that white gas = naphtha.
For one thing, white gas has a *much* more pungent odor than naphtha,
and evaporates much more quickly. I did find one site that seems to have
a good definition of white gas:
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=776626. It is similar to
gasoline.

Lighter fluid ("Ronsonol") *is* naphtha, so far as I've been able to
determine.


--
Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War
II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second
Lebanon War.

- Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist
(http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html)

David Nebenzahl writes:

Both charcoal starter and lighter fluid (e.g., Ronsonol) are naphtha,
... You're thinking of "white gas" for Coleman fuel.

You're quite confused. Go to Walmart or paint store and read some labels.
Or have a read in the Kirk-Othmer at the library.

White gas, white spirit, naphtha, Coleman fuel, Zippo fuel, Ronsonol, are
all similar, very light petroleum distillate fractions.

Charcoal starter is a heavier weight, roughly kerosene. Using naphtha for
such a purpose would be stupidly hazardous. Especially for those who have
a habit of squirting it on a slow fire.

Tim Fischer wrote:
So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt
some sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409)
and a wire brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution,
and that helped a little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it
or walk on it.

Why do you care whether the thinset will stick? Am I missing something?

David Nebenzahl writes:

But it isn't the same thing as white gas, of that I'm sure, even though
there are plenty of sites out there that say that white gas = naphtha.
For one thing, white gas has a *much* more pungent odor than naphtha,
and evaporates much more quickly.

It's the "same thing" in any ordinary sense.

The odor isn't relevant. If a naphtha product sold as "white gas" has a
strong odor, it's just a blended impurity that isn't worth removing in the
fuel application. The naphtha from the paint store will be essentially the
same stuff, but better purified of high-boiling impurities, because for
painting and clean-up you want a solvent that doesn't leave a residue.
This is the reason for the "VM&P" (varnish maker's and painter's) grade of
naphtha.

The Walmart store brand camp fuel is the cheapest way to buy naphtha by the
gallon. And always very pure of odors and residue in my experience with
using it as a solvent.

Tim Fischer wrote:
Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last night
we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy with a heat
gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion, but is noticably
"tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not talking globs of adhesive
or anything, in fact it isn't really visible at all, except for a little bit
of gloss here an there and some other discoloration of the concrete. But
nothing like big black or yellow/gold blobs of adhesive like I've seen
elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt some
sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and a wire
brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and that helped a
little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or walk on it.

I'm guessing the original floor is circa mid-80's if that matters.

Thanks much for your help -- I'd apprecate any replies as we hope to do some
work on it yet tonight.

-Tim

I remember speaking to the tiling 'Gurus' at Home Depot once and they
advised me against trying to remove the adhesive with a solvent,
rationalizing that residue would soak into the concrete and may cause
problems with the thinset in times of high humidity.

Having said that, let me point out that I am no tiling expert and not
trying to argue with our resident experts here.

Lewis.

******

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Tim Fischer wrote:
So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt
some sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409)
and a wire brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution,
and that helped a little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it
or walk on it.

Why do you care whether the thinset will stick? Am I missing something?

Uhm, because if it doesn't stick (to the concrete) my tile will pop off?
grin

Maybe you thought I meant I didn't want it to stick to the residue.

Anyway, I tried using thinner and a wire brush, then mopping with floor
cleaner and water, and it seems to have gotten much better (not perfect, but
much, much better. I then saw the other reply that said not to use
solvents-- oops...

Well, we'll hope it all works out. I'll hopefuly be tiling tomorrow...

Thanks all,
-Tim

"Tim Fischer" wrote in
:

Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last
night we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy
with a heat gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion,
but is noticably "tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not
talking globs of adhesive or anything, in fact it isn't really visible
at all, except for a little bit of gloss here an there and some other
discoloration of the concrete. But nothing like big black or
yellow/gold blobs of adhesive like I've seen elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt
some sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and
a wire brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and
that helped a little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or
walk on it.

I'm guessing the original floor is circa mid-80's if that matters.

Thanks much for your help -- I'd apprecate any replies as we hope to
do some work on it yet tonight.

-Tim




If the adhesive becomes an issue, a possible option is to put 1/4" cement
board over it? Gives you a fresh start. Not sure if this raises hell with
your fixtures and floor transitions.

But by now you are probably into trying all kinds of solvents and are
high as a kite! :-)

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
. ..
Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last
night we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy with a
heat gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion, but is
noticably "tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not talking globs
of adhesive or anything, in fact it isn't really visible at all, except
for a little bit of gloss here an there and some other discoloration of
the concrete. But nothing like big black or yellow/gold blobs of adhesive
like I've seen elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt some
sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and a wire
brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and that helped a
little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or walk on it.

I'm guessing the original floor is circa mid-80's if that matters.

Thanks much for your help -- I'd apprecate any replies as we hope to do
some work on it yet tonight.

-Tim


mineral spirits or your chemical/cleaner of choice and an old towel cut into
smaller pieces to remove the tack

mop up with very hot water, plenty of times to remove all residue of any
chemical and/or cleaner

sand with coarse sandpaper wrapped around a piece of wood for a backing to
get down to concrete

if you don't want to get down to concrete, an old tile pro said you can
trowel on armstrong s-184 skim and patch coat right on top of the old sticky
surface (black - oil base glue; or yellow - water base glue ) then lay your
tile on it

oddly enough after trying a few things i took mine off in a room with
hot water and a good scraper....not too much trouble, i was surprised.
My slab is pretty finished and slick though.

- shawn

Tim Fischer wrote:
Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last night
we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy with a heat
gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion, but is noticably
"tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not talking globs of adhesive
or anything, in fact it isn't really visible at all, except for a little bit
of gloss here an there and some other discoloration of the concrete. But
nothing like big black or yellow/gold blobs of adhesive like I've seen
elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt some
sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and a wire
brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and that helped a
little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or walk on it.

I'm guessing the original floor is circa mid-80's if that matters.

Thanks much for your help -- I'd apprecate any replies as we hope to do some
work on it yet tonight.

-Tim

solvents evaporate, thats the nature of solvents, patroleum products
are only partialy solvent though and so if you use something and don't
want any residual chemicals to soak in use an alchol based cleaner or a
pure solvant. some brake cleaners are a pure solvant, but lately
companies have been cheapening the stuff with amonia instead of hexane
and they are leaving residues now. fingernail plish remover would be
great, but expensive inthe amounts you need. turpentine would be fine
as it is a remover to start with.
Empressess #124457


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Tim Fischer wrote:
Hi all,

We're just about to start a small tile job (45 sq ft bathroom). Last night
we tore up the ugly vinyl tile floor. It came up pretty easy with a heat
gun. The concrete slab underneath is in great condtion, but is noticably
"tacky" from the vinyl tile adhesive. We're not talking globs of adhesive
or anything, in fact it isn't really visible at all, except for a little bit
of gloss here an there and some other discoloration of the concrete. But
nothing like big black or yellow/gold blobs of adhesive like I've seen
elsewhere.

So my question -- will my thinset stick to this, or should I attempt some
sort of chemical strip? We used some household cleaner (409) and a wire
brush, then mopped with a strong floor-cleaner solution, and that helped a
little, but it's still quite tacky when you feel it or walk on it.

I'm guessing the original floor is circa mid-80's if that matters.

Thanks much for your help -- I'd apprecate any replies as we hope to do some
work on it yet tonight.

-Tim