Howdy all.
Upon inspecting the electrical system in my home I noticed a couple
circuits wired with 14 gauge wire being protected by a 20amp breaker.
To me this doesn't seem safe, so I plan on replacing the breakers.

My question: is there a reason the electricain would run wire this way?
The 14 wires go to outlets. My family wouldn't draw enough power from
these outlets to cause a concern, but who knows what the future owners
of the house would plug into these outlets. It seems to me that the
possibility of a fire exists with the 20amp breakers protecting a 14
gauge circuit. Am I wrong on this? Also, is this something a home
inspector should have caught? We had the home inspected 5 years ago
before buying the house. The wiring is easily accessed via drop-down
ceiling panels in the basement.

-Felder

wrote:

Howdy all.
Upon inspecting the electrical system in my home I noticed a couple
circuits wired with 14 gauge wire being protected by a 20amp breaker.
To me this doesn't seem safe, so I plan on replacing the breakers.

My question: is there a reason the electricain would run wire this way?
The 14 wires go to outlets. My family wouldn't draw enough power from
these outlets to cause a concern, but who knows what the future owners
of the house would plug into these outlets. It seems to me that the
possibility of a fire exists with the 20amp breakers protecting a 14
gauge circuit. Am I wrong on this? Also, is this something a home
inspector should have caught? We had the home inspected 5 years ago
before buying the house. The wiring is easily accessed via drop-down
ceiling panels in the basement.

-Felder

Yes, replace the breakers with 15A ones.

No, there isn't any reason an electrician would wire 14ga on a 20A
breaker.

Yes, it should have been picked up by a home inspection.

Pete C.

Yes, it should have been picked up by a home inspection.

Ideally yes, but is it something that home inspectors actually look at?
When I bought my house the "inspector" missed #12 on a 30a breaker and
(drumroll) three #12 circuits on a 50a breaker. Obviously he didn't look
very hard; but do any of them, or did I just get a dud?

Toller wrote:

Yes, it should have been picked up by a home inspection.

Ideally yes, but is it something that home inspectors actually look at?
When I bought my house the "inspector" missed #12 on a 30a breaker and
(drumroll) three #12 circuits on a 50a breaker. Obviously he didn't look
very hard; but do any of them, or did I just get a dud?

You got a dud.

The wire gauge / breaker mismatch is one of the first and easiest things
a home inspector should check.

Pete C.

On 29 Aug 2006 14:10:20 -0700, wrote:

Howdy all.
Upon inspecting the electrical system in my home I noticed a couple
circuits wired with 14 gauge wire being protected by a 20amp breaker.
To me this doesn't seem safe, so I plan on replacing the breakers.

My question: is there a reason the electricain would run wire this way?
The 14 wires go to outlets. My family wouldn't draw enough power from
these outlets to cause a concern,

You should get one of the new high amperage kits to update your wife
with.

Also, your children may get better grades and get into a better
college if you install one of the high amperage kits in each of them.

but who knows what the future owners
of the house would plug into these outlets. It seems to me that the
possibility of a fire exists with the 20amp breakers protecting a 14
gauge circuit. Am I wrong on this?

You're right.

Also, is this something a home
inspector should have caught?

AIUI, no. I hope you didnt' count on having 20 amps there. Seems
not.

We had the home inspected 5 years ago
before buying the house. The wiring is easily accessed via drop-down
ceiling panels in the basement.

-Felder

In article ,
says...
Toller wrote:

Yes, it should have been picked up by a home inspection.

Ideally yes, but is it something that home inspectors actually look at?
When I bought my house the "inspector" missed #12 on a 30a breaker and
(drumroll) three #12 circuits on a 50a breaker. Obviously he didn't look
very hard; but do any of them, or did I just get a dud?

You got a dud.

The wire gauge / breaker mismatch is one of the first and easiest things
a home inspector should check.

Yep, and anything this bad should tip the inspector off to look
closer for more code violations. The inspector that the buyers of
my MIL's house hired found all sorts of screwy things. The outlets
in the garage were all reversed, the grounds and neutrals were tied
together in the subpanel in the garage, and the upstairs smoke
detector was put in with a running slices and taped up with
electrical tape. I'm surprised no one got hurt in the place!

--
Keith

On 29 Aug 2006 14:10:20 -0700, wrote:

Howdy all.
Upon inspecting the electrical system in my home I noticed a couple
circuits wired with 14 gauge wire being protected by a 20amp breaker.
To me this doesn't seem safe, so I plan on replacing the breakers.

My question: is there a reason the electricain would run wire this way?
The 14 wires go to outlets. My family wouldn't draw enough power from
these outlets to cause a concern, but who knows what the future owners
of the house would plug into these outlets. It seems to me that the
possibility of a fire exists with the 20amp breakers protecting a 14
gauge circuit. Am I wrong on this? Also, is this something a home
inspector should have caught? We had the home inspected 5 years ago
before buying the house. The wiring is easily accessed via drop-down
ceiling panels in the basement.

-Felder


I've seen this in 'older' homes, so how old is this.

The only reason, which is enough, that a 14# wire is protected by a
15a breaker, is there is a paragraph about not using it for greater
than 15amps. The NEC clearly states that it is 'safe' for 20 amps,
just that in general residental use, you must limit it to 15 amps.
This is from memory, please check the codes yourself.

So, when was 14# downgraded for residental use? I don't know, but I
can say that I've seen this, and I've instructed home owners that If I
"touch" a circuit that has a 14#/20a breaker combination, I will
replace them with 15amp breakers, but I've been faught with in the
past doing this. Some electricians say the circuit was code when
installed, so it is grandfathered.

So in short from my example of 'weirdness' of this situation. Find
out if you are 'required' to downgrade older 14# supplied circuits, by
your codes.

later,

tom @ www.Japanese-Beetles.com

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:52:15 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:54:47 -0400, Tom The Great
wrote:

The only reason, which is enough, that a 14# wire is protected by a
15a breaker, is there is a paragraph about not using it for greater
than 15amps. The NEC clearly states that it is 'safe' for 20 amps,
just that in general residental use, you must limit it to 15 amps.
This is from memory, please check the codes yourself.

It used to be a footnote to 310-16 and now it has moved to 240.4(D)
The intent is to build the 80% ampacity rule into the circuits that
are likely to have multiple receptacles on them because the installer
has no control on what the user will plug in.


"footnote" or "fine print note"

The code seems to tell you that FPN's are unenforcible, so that makes
sense why I sometimes still find 20amp bkr's on a 14# wire in older
homes.

later,

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com