I have a question. Friend of mine has a 60 year old house. They were
remodeling a bathroom. THe general contractor gutted the bathroom
(which is on the second floor). Directly below this bathroom is the
kitchen. Since thehouse is very old, a plumber was called in to check
and change any pipes from the bathroom. Plumber came and did this..
Once plumber left, massive amounts of water started leaking from the
bathroom (same area where he was working) and flooded the kitchen area.
THus resulted in ruining the entire kitchen ceiling. The GC, who was
working on the project, states he was outside and came in and saw the
water flowing.. Plumber was called and changed a pipe which he states
was 'bent'. GC states he didnt touch anything.. (seems like plumber
wants to push blame) . SHouldnt the plumber's insurance cover the
damages? or must the homeowner use their homeowners insurance? plumber
is trying to avoid paying anything- stating that , well, this is an old
house, and this can happen with old pipes. Any advice you can offer
would be very helpful. My friend feels that the plumber should have at
least some responsibility as he was working on the pipes. Not fair for
plumber to avoid all fault and leave with no $ responsibility.
Thank you
KOS

KOS wrote:
I have a question. Friend of mine has a 60 year old house. They were
remodeling a bathroom. THe general contractor gutted the bathroom
(which is on the second floor). Directly below this bathroom is the
kitchen. Since thehouse is very old, a plumber was called in to check
and change any pipes from the bathroom. Plumber came and did this..
Once plumber left, massive amounts of water started leaking from the
bathroom (same area where he was working) and flooded the kitchen area.
THus resulted in ruining the entire kitchen ceiling. The GC, who was
working on the project, states he was outside and came in and saw the
water flowing.. Plumber was called and changed a pipe which he states
was 'bent'. GC states he didnt touch anything.. (seems like plumber
wants to push blame) . SHouldnt the plumber's insurance cover the
damages? or must the homeowner use their homeowners insurance? plumber
is trying to avoid paying anything- stating that , well, this is an old
house, and this can happen with old pipes. Any advice you can offer
would be very helpful. My friend feels that the plumber should have at
least some responsibility as he was working on the pipes. Not fair for
plumber to avoid all fault and leave with no $ responsibility.
Thank you
KOS

you don't really say what the cause of the leak was, and what exactly
the plumber did other than look at it. at any rate, i'd advise you to
call your homeowner's insurance. insurance companies are very good at
figuring out if there is another insurance company that should pay the
claim (this is called subrogation).

thanks for your reply.
The plumber, prior to the massive leak, did replace pipes in the shower
area and toilet, so work was done.
thanks for the advice, yes, my friend has contacted his homeowners,
but he doesnt want his insurance to cover it, he wants his insurance to
contact plumber's, but plumber seems reluctant on cooperating at all
marson wrote:
KOS wrote:
I have a question. Friend of mine has a 60 year old house. They were
remodeling a bathroom. THe general contractor gutted the bathroom
(which is on the second floor). Directly below this bathroom is the
kitchen. Since thehouse is very old, a plumber was called in to check
and change any pipes from the bathroom. Plumber came and did this..
Once plumber left, massive amounts of water started leaking from the
bathroom (same area where he was working) and flooded the kitchen area.
THus resulted in ruining the entire kitchen ceiling. The GC, who was
working on the project, states he was outside and came in and saw the
water flowing.. Plumber was called and changed a pipe which he states
was 'bent'. GC states he didnt touch anything.. (seems like plumber
wants to push blame) . SHouldnt the plumber's insurance cover the
damages? or must the homeowner use their homeowners insurance? plumber
is trying to avoid paying anything- stating that , well, this is an old
house, and this can happen with old pipes. Any advice you can offer
would be very helpful. My friend feels that the plumber should have at
least some responsibility as he was working on the pipes. Not fair for
plumber to avoid all fault and leave with no $ responsibility.
Thank you
KOS

you don't really say what the cause of the leak was, and what exactly
the plumber did other than look at it. at any rate, i'd advise you to
call your homeowner's insurance. insurance companies are very good at
figuring out if there is another insurance company that should pay the
claim (this is called subrogation).

KOS wrote:
thanks for your reply.
The plumber, prior to the massive leak, did replace pipes in the shower
area and toilet, so work was done.
thanks for the advice, yes, my friend has contacted his homeowners,
but he doesnt want his insurance to cover it, he wants his insurance to
contact plumber's, but plumber seems reluctant on cooperating at all
marson wrote:

i don't think the plumber needs to cooperate provided you know where he
gets his or the GC's liability insurance. i know of a case where a
plumber burned down a house in the process of remodelling/addition, and
it was the owner's homeowner who paid the loss (400k+). they then
subrogated the claim to the plumber's liability insurance company. the
plumber never heard boo about it--his liability insurance took care of
it. and recently, the company i worked for was tearing down a house
and some shingles dented the neighbors aluminum siding in the process.
the neighbor submitted it to his insurance, and they paid him 8 grand
for three little dents and then turned around and got it out of our
builder's risk policy. the only problem would be if the plumber or the
GC doesn't have insurance--then they deserve to pay out of pocket.

"KOS" wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a question. Friend of mine has a 60 year old house. They were
remodeling a bathroom. THe general contractor gutted the bathroom
(which is on the second floor). Directly below this bathroom is the
kitchen. Since thehouse is very old, a plumber was called in to check
and change any pipes from the bathroom. Plumber came and did this..
Once plumber left, massive amounts of water started leaking from the
bathroom (same area where he was working) and flooded the kitchen area.
THus resulted in ruining the entire kitchen ceiling. The GC, who was
working on the project, states he was outside and came in and saw the
water flowing.. Plumber was called and changed a pipe which he states
was 'bent'. GC states he didnt touch anything.. (seems like plumber
wants to push blame) . SHouldnt the plumber's insurance cover the
damages? or must the homeowner use their homeowners insurance? plumber
is trying to avoid paying anything- stating that , well, this is an old
house, and this can happen with old pipes. Any advice you can offer
would be very helpful. My friend feels that the plumber should have at
least some responsibility as he was working on the pipes. Not fair for
plumber to avoid all fault and leave with no $ responsibility.
Thank you
KOS


Did your friend hire the plumber of the general contractor? Was the plumber
hired with a contract or by the hour? Did your friends lack of supervision
add to the problem. Where do you live? A talk with a lawyer would probably
be more fruitful then any answer you get here.

"KOS" wrote in message
ps.com...
The GC, who was
working on the project, states he was outside and came in and saw the
water flowing.. Plumber was called and changed a pipe which he states
was 'bent'. GC states he didnt touch anything.. (seems like plumber
wants to push blame) . SHouldnt the plumber's insurance cover the
damages? or must the homeowner use their homeowners insurance? plumber
is trying to avoid paying anything- stating that , well, this is an old
house, and this can happen with old pipes. Any advice you can offer
would be very helpful. My friend feels that the plumber should have at
least some responsibility as he was working on the pipes. Not fair for
plumber to avoid all fault and leave with no $ responsibility.
Thank you
KOS

Paging Judge Wapner!

Did the plumber cause the problem? This is a simple yes or no situation.
Just because the plumber worked in that room does not mean he was the cause.
Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. We need to see the cause of the leak.

The owner should contact his insurance agent and let them handle it. Take
photos of the pipe that was leaking as well as what was worked on.

Pat wrote:
"KOS" wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a question. Friend of mine has a 60 year old house. They were
remodeling a bathroom. THe general contractor gutted the bathroom
(which is on the second floor). Directly below this bathroom is the
kitchen. Since thehouse is very old, a plumber was called in to check
and change any pipes from the bathroom. Plumber came and did this..
Once plumber left, massive amounts of water started leaking from the
bathroom (same area where he was working) and flooded the kitchen area.
THus resulted in ruining the entire kitchen ceiling. The GC, who was
working on the project, states he was outside and came in and saw the
water flowing.. Plumber was called and changed a pipe which he states
was 'bent'. GC states he didnt touch anything.. (seems like plumber
wants to push blame) . SHouldnt the plumber's insurance cover the
damages? or must the homeowner use their homeowners insurance? plumber
is trying to avoid paying anything- stating that , well, this is an old
house, and this can happen with old pipes. Any advice you can offer
would be very helpful. My friend feels that the plumber should have at
least some responsibility as he was working on the pipes. Not fair for
plumber to avoid all fault and leave with no $ responsibility.
Thank you
KOS


Did your friend hire the plumber of the general contractor? Was the plumber
hired with a contract or by the hour? Did your friends lack of supervision
add to the problem. Where do you live? A talk with a lawyer would probably
be more fruitful then any answer you get here.

call YOUR insurnce company let THEIR lawyers sort it out! They will
send a investigator pay for damages and sue whoever they choose.

Honestly though when remodeling disasters are to be expected......

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
Paging Judge Wapner!

Did the plumber cause the problem? This is a simple yes or no situation.
Just because the plumber worked in that room does not mean he was the cause.
Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. We need to see the cause of the leak.

The owner should contact his insurance agent and let them handle it. Take
photos of the pipe that was leaking as well as what was worked on.


I agree. Plus, it should have been determined exactly what was leaking
with photos taken BEFORE the plumber came back. I would not accept the
explanation of the guy who could have caused the problem as to what
went wrong. A "bent" pipe does not explain a massive leak.