iF INSURANCE required k&t removal and the homeowner cheats by just
replacing the exposed wiring leaving K&T thru the less accessible areas
and a fire occurs expect insurance to disown you...........

one of the troubles with K&T is that you cant easily examine the sloder
joints since they are buried in the walls....

wiuth no boxes

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to :
Insurance KNOWS its fire hazard rate is higher,

Some Insurance companies BELIEVE it to be higher. Insurance
companies do all sorts of strange things to avoid what they
_perceive_ to be a risk.

Unmolested K&T used within its limitations (eg: not overloading
it) is no more dangerous than any other kind of wiring, and
is in fact safer than some more recent types.

I'll take a solid K&T installation over 40's/50's romex/BX any day.


The answer to the original question is of course they are not always
dangerous -- like Chris said.

Insurance companies don't deal with *always*. That's the key. In some
parts of the country they may be familiar with it (like the NE) and
insure it (perhaps with a special rider, like the $20 per year I pay
extra for having a woodburning stove.) In other places, it's very
unusual, and unusual is bad. If you have K&T, they're not interested in
finding out if yours is safe or not, they just go by the averages. If
there's not enough data points for a meaningful average (like maybe K&T
in the Midwest or Gulf Coast?), they won't touch it.

Bob

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Tom Horne, Electrician :

The controls for the electric blanket will not handle DC. Switching for
DC loads must be much more robust then that for AC.

Depends on how the controls work. I thought they were (still)
usually variable resistors with thermal cutoffs to act as
cutoff timers. That'd work just as well on DC.

If, on the other hand, they're using SCRs or Triacs and the like,
you'd have to change the controller.

No matter what the control is the actual switching contacts will be
damaged if DC is applied to them because of arcing at the contacts. So
unless you are talking about a variable resister that never applies full
voltage to a cold circuit the control contacts will destroy them selves.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

wrote:
iF INSURANCE required k&t removal and the homeowner cheats by just
replacing the exposed wiring leaving K&T threw the less accessible areas
and a fire occurs expect insurance to disown you...........

This is true only if the knob and tube wiring was the direct cause of
the loss. An insurance contract is a "contract of utmost good faith."
Once you collect a premium you must pay any covered loss. Information
that was concealed from the insurer only voids the contract if it
concealed the cause of the loss.

one of the troubles with K&T is that you cant easily examine the solder
joints since they are buried in the walls....

with no boxes



--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

According to z :

Chris Lewis wrote:

GFCIs on circuits without grounds is in fact NEC and CEC approved.

Now you tell me, after I had to sneak around at night running ground
wires all over the basement of my apartment building from the waterpipe
clamp at one end to the GFCIs I installed in my first floor knob and
tube wired apartment.

It isn't exactly a secret. It's probably mentioned on this group
several times a week.

What else do you guys know that you aren't telling me?

How many months do you have?

Buy a wiring book, or read the electrical wiring FAQ (google for it).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

My wife likes to imply that MY knob is dangerous !!!!

On 25 Jul 2006 03:35:24 -0700, wrote:

I'm sure this question has been posted and answered a thousand times
here, but a family member who routinely asks me to walk-through homes
she is interested in buying (because, as a walking Typhoid Mary of
Money Pits, I have hard-earned knowledge) has asked me to jump on a
particularly desirable (location, location, location) multi-unit this
AM.

One half of this duplex has knob-and-tube.

I have read conflicting estimates of the integrity and safety of
knob-and-tube on this group and other web sites. But I'm scheduled to
go through the home in two hours and thought I'd post and maybe get
some fresh insights.

From the street, and as far as the exterior foundation goes, this home
is an absolute steal (new roof, great landscaping, has it all). My
family member needs a place to run to as the result of a divorce and
won't be able to take on both the mortgage and a complete rewire at the
time of sale; hence, my post.

Thank you as always for your responses.

wrote:
My wife likes to imply that MY knob is dangerous !!!!

Does it have a tendency to melt?

According to Tom Horne, Electrician :
Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Tom Horne, Electrician :

The controls for the electric blanket will not handle DC. Switching for
DC loads must be much more robust then that for AC.

Depends on how the controls work. I thought they were (still)
usually variable resistors with thermal cutoffs to act as
cutoff timers. That'd work just as well on DC.

If, on the other hand, they're using SCRs or Triacs and the like,
you'd have to change the controller.

No matter what the control is the actual switching contacts will be
damaged if DC is applied to them because of arcing at the contacts. So
unless you are talking about a variable resister that never applies full
voltage to a cold circuit the control contacts will destroy them selves.

Point taken - if it uses mechanical switching. However, the wattage of
these devices is quite low, and it wouldn't be surprising to me to
find that the contacts are sufficient for such current levels with
both AC and DC.

Yes, DC is harder on switch contacts than AC. But at these power
levels, it's not that big a difference.

Of course, it voids the UL/CSA approval (unless explicitly stated
otherwise) it's probably best to not try it anyway. People tend
to get rather intimate with their heating blankets, so problems
tend to have nastier consequences.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

My wife likes to imply that MY knob is dangerous !!!!

A legend in your own mind....
--
Tekkie